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juggalo baby coffin posted:my nerdy past was roleplaying on neverwinter nights servers when i was 13 or 14. i feel very innocent in retrospect because i was maybe one of two people who wasnt just in it to ERP extremely bizarre permutations of werewolves and million year old dragons who looked like little girls. Man you're just reciting a whole lot of the books I loved as a kid. I recently reread the Mortal Engines books and they still hold up incredibly well. I love how much of a broken hosed up person Hester is. Not just her face (which is described as looking like "a portrait that had been violently crossed out") but emotionally. Something that you don't see often in the female lead/romantic interest. Shame the movie toned everything down.
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Sep 11, 2020 22:13
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so that’s what he was doing instead of finishing GoT
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Sep 11, 2020 22:20
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SirSamVimes posted:Man you're just reciting a whole lot of the books I loved as a kid. I recently reread the Mortal Engines books and they still hold up incredibly well. I love how much of a broken hosed up person Hester is. Not just her face (which is described as looking like "a portrait that had been violently crossed out") but emotionally. Something that you don't see often in the female lead/romantic interest. yeah, she was one of the few like actually traumatized characters i'd encountered in a book. most characters who get trauma in fantasy or YA books get really sad and don't do anything for a while then overcome it through heroic willpower and it's finished with. with her it affected everything about her and her like to an extent overcoming that but still struggling with it made her seem like a real person, and more heroic than a person who just magically cures their mental illness. there was that kind of golden period of young adult fiction before 'YA' became a thing and everything was just a clone about a dystopia, where YA was basically just fantasy / sci fi minus nearly all the rape and all the cringeworthy sex scenes. you had books with good premises and good characters but without a lot of the gross poo poo that dogs fantasy and sf. it sucks that the movie hosed up one of the most interesting female leads in young adult fiction. one of the major themes of the series is dehumanization, from the stalkers, to the way people are used as a commodity, and hester doesn't really treat herself as a human because she's kinda damaged, and removing one of the main reasons she feels like that kind of fucks up that theme.  vs  and the dumb part is the fanart i posted is kind of downplayed vs how she's described in the book. she got hit in the face with a sword as a little kid and the scar stretched out and healed weirdly as she grew.
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Sep 11, 2020 22:41
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The Mortal Engines movie was a pile of poo poo and ended with a lovely knockoff of the battle of Yavin as the evil westerners tried to invade the enlightened Chinese territory.
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Sep 11, 2020 22:53
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super sweet best pal posted:The Mortal Engines movie was a pile of poo poo and ended with a lovely knockoff of the battle of Yavin as the evil westerners tried to invade the enlightened Chinese territory. yea in the book the superweapon just blows itself up when they try to fire at the shield wall
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Sep 11, 2020 23:05
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wild cards was the superhero tabletop rp game played by a bunch of nerdy rear end authors in the 70's. grrm was only one of them, but he's also the one who seems to have gotten really fixated on the whole thing. everyone else maybe contributed a short story about their character for an anthology and that was it.
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Sep 11, 2020 23:48
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juggalo baby coffin posted:there was that kind of golden period of young adult fiction before 'YA' became a thing and everything was just a clone about a dystopia, where YA was basically just fantasy / sci fi minus nearly all the rape and all the cringeworthy sex scenes. you had books with good premises and good characters but without a lot of the gross poo poo that dogs fantasy and sf. YA has actually been a thing since the 70's and includes romance, standard fiction, and every other genre you can think of. It did have a massive revival in the 2000's thanks to Harry Potter, though. Right now YA is getting eaten up with lovely formulaic garbage from writer mills run by hacks like James Paterson and, I kid you not, James Frey, that rear end in a top hat who wrote a bullshit memoir and got dragged by Oprah for being a total loving fraud. He now has a team of poor creative writing majors churning out some trash dystopia that of course got a movie option. Ugh. The whole thing makes you miss the simple honesty of two people writing their silly dnd campaign for a quick cash-in.
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Sep 11, 2020 23:56
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Wild Cards is 28 books now. Although there was a soft reboot with Inside Straight in 2008 when they moved to Tor. And of course the covers all have 'GEORGE RR MARTIN' on them and 'edited by' in teeny teeny letters. Plus, if you dig further you see they're all edited with the assistance of Melissa Snodgrass, so you have to wonder if he's doing much more than cashing a cheque to have his name emblazoned on the cover.
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Sep 12, 2020 00:05
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there wolf posted:YA has actually been a thing since the 70's and includes romance, standard fiction, and every other genre you can think of. It did have a massive revival in the 2000's thanks to Harry Potter, though. Right now YA is getting eaten up with lovely formulaic garbage from writer mills run by hacks like James Paterson and, I kid you not, James Frey, that rear end in a top hat who wrote a bullshit memoir and got dragged by Oprah for being a total loving fraud. He now has a team of poor creative writing majors churning out some trash dystopia that of course got a movie option. Ugh. The whole thing makes you miss the simple honesty of two people writing their silly dnd campaign for a quick cash-in. i guess i never really thought about a lot of the stuff i read from that period as being young adult fiction, but it makes sense that it would be. i guess 'YA' was something i only really heard in relation to newer books that were coming out when i was a kid, like harry potter. incidentally i really liked the first few harry potter books when i was a little kid, but the gaps between them got long enough, and the quality got low enough, that I lost interest. I think the first 3 are pretty great, 4 was good but bloated, then 5 he spends the entire first half of the book shouting at people in some bullshit house, barely even gets to hogwarts, everything is dark in a really dumb way and everyone argues constantly and then sirius black gets killed off. it kind of took away the parts i liked about the series (adventures at wizard school) and made it more about people shouting and stupid deaths. I didn't even read 6 or 7. the first one came out when i was 7 and then i think the last one came out when i was 18. i kind of wish i still had my original copy of the first book cause it was a very early edition and its probably worth something now. Deptfordx posted:Wild Cards is 28 books now. Although there was a soft reboot with Inside Straight in 2008 when they moved to Tor. holy poo poo, 28!? that is a lot of books. I think I read the first five of them, in the period where some of them were out of print, so i only had what i could get second hand
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Sep 12, 2020 00:26
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juggalo baby coffin posted:i guess i never really thought about a lot of the stuff i read from that period as being young adult fiction, but it makes sense that it would be. i guess 'YA' was something i only really heard in relation to newer books that were coming out when i was a kid, like harry potter. I'm pretty sure a lot of Heinlein's work was YA.
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Sep 12, 2020 00:35
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Oh yeah, tons of classic SF and Fantasy would be YA if they were published in 2020.
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Sep 12, 2020 00:46
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lol Heinlein
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Sep 12, 2020 01:44
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there wolf posted:YA has actually been a thing since the 70's and includes romance, standard fiction, and every other genre you can think of. It did have a massive revival in the 2000's thanks to Harry Potter, though. Right now YA is getting eaten up with lovely formulaic garbage from writer mills run by hacks like James Paterson and, I kid you not, James Frey, that rear end in a top hat who wrote a bullshit memoir and got dragged by Oprah for being a total loving fraud. He now has a team of poor creative writing majors churning out some trash dystopia that of course got a movie option. Ugh. The whole thing makes you miss the simple honesty of two people writing their silly dnd campaign for a quick cash-in. No, it hasn't. YA is very much a post-Hunger Games invention. There's a difference between books written for kids and teens and the cookie-cutter Young Adult genre. Even Harry Potter isn't really YA. It was Hunger Games that kicked things off. It and Twilight.
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Sep 12, 2020 01:54
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ive never been a fan of sex scenes in books that arent specifically erotica, they are usually poorly written and awkward and extremely rarely have anything to do with the plot. i dont think ive seen one in a book where it couldn't just be substituted with 'and they hosed' and not harm the book at all. i think most writers are pretty visually-minded people, which helps for describing fantastical cityscapes, not so much for conveying sex, which is an almost entirely kinesthetic experience. its how you end up with a lot of 'glistening manhoods' and weird tab-a into slot-a type prose. like most writers are pretty bad at fight scenes too, and a good fight scene is also very kinesthetic, but like someone said earlier a lot of writers write swordfights like they're the combat log in an MMO. if you apply the combat log approach to sex, which they do, its just awful. Jerek thrusted with his turgid member, dealing 50 pleasure to Tarabella's trembling mons just awful
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Sep 12, 2020 01:59
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A lot of it is getting recatagorized as such. Which make sense because before HP and the advent of YA as a marketing term, teen sections were a mix of classics for school, stuff actually written with tweens/teens in mind like Fear Street or Tamora Peirce books, and then whatever the person in charge of shelving thought should go there. A lot of YA-oriented reprints of stuff like Ender's Game is just publishers catching up with what librarians and booksellers had been doing for years. Speaking of bad fantasy, Leng is doing a let's read of The Blending by Sharon Green here. It's one of those fantasy/romance series that I think Mist of Avalon inspired? Like the idea was a more woman-oriented fantasy narrative without all the swords and fighting you normally get. Except they're just bad romance with even worse fantasy elements and setting applied. If you've ever picked up a fantasy book because the cover had a women in a pretty dress on it, it was probably this kind of book. Horizon Burning posted:No, it hasn't. YA is very much a post-Hunger Games invention. There's a difference between books written for kids and teens and the cookie-cutter Young Adult genre. Even Harry Potter isn't really YA. It was Hunger Games that kicked things off. It and Twilight. This is like saying that fantasy is a post SoIaF invention, and all the stuff before was books for magic aficionados. Genres change; their standards, conventions, and styles will shift over time. But Young Adult literature is books written specifically for a tween/teenage audience, and it goes back to the sixties and seventies with stuff like the Outsiders, Judy Blume, and the Basketball Diaries. there wolf fucked around with this message at 02:12 on Sep 12, 2020 |
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Sep 12, 2020 02:03
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there wolf posted:This is like saying that fantasy is a post SoIaF invention, and all the stuff before was books for magic aficionados. Genres change; their standards, conventions, and styles will shift over time. But Young Adult literature is books written specifically for a tween/teenage audience, and it goes back to the sixties and seventies with stuff like the Outsiders, Judy Blume, and the Basketball Diaries. Big yikes from me, dog. If you were going to try and link the modern fantasy genre to anything, you'd link it to Tolkein. There's a difference between 'young adult' and Young Adult and Outsiders, Judy Blume, etc. get labelled as distinct from the Young Adult genre these days. Whenever people play this card, they're just trying to legitimize their tropetastic genre by saying Divergent is the same as Catcher in the Rye.
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Sep 12, 2020 02:40
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the modern idea of 'YA' as a genre with its own trappings is a fairly new thing, but there have been books intended for young adults for a long time. i remember there being a young adult section in the book shop when i was a little kid, and that was in the late 90s, way before the modern monstrous version of YA
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Sep 12, 2020 03:02
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In the 70s it was "Teens".
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Sep 12, 2020 03:17
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juggalo baby coffin posted:my nerdy past was roleplaying on neverwinter nights servers when i was 13 or 14. i feel very innocent in retrospect because i was maybe one of two people who wasnt just in it to ERP extremely bizarre permutations of werewolves and million year old dragons who looked like little girls. Oh dude same, NWN servers were my loving life between 12 and 15, got my first boyfriend on one of those before I realized I was a huge gay
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Sep 12, 2020 03:20
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Horizon Burning posted:Big yikes from me, dog. If you were going to try and link the modern fantasy genre to anything, you'd link it to Tolkein. There's a difference between 'young adult' and Young Adult and Outsiders, Judy Blume, etc. get labelled as distinct from the Young Adult genre these days. Whenever people play this card, they're just trying to legitimize their tropetastic genre by saying Divergent is the same as Catcher in the Rye. Divergent is the same as Catcher in the Rye. They're both garbage.
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Sep 12, 2020 03:58
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probably an upbringing thing but I couldn't and to this day can't stand Catcher in the Rye
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Sep 12, 2020 04:21
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Catcher in the rye is a fascinating book in that a child who is molested and emotionally neglected is so goddamn hateable nobody remembers those parts.
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Sep 12, 2020 04:24
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Lol if you think young adult fiction is for young adults and not middle aged marms
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Sep 12, 2020 07:46
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Inverted Icon posted:Lol if you think young adult fiction is for young adults and not middle aged marms No, no, that's New Adult. Which is Young Adult but with explicit sex scenes.
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Sep 12, 2020 12:13
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while I was a teenager busy being angry that Dragonlance existed, I also read and enjoyed all of the Drizz't books as they came out. I also bought each of the Cleric's Canticle books as they were released. the only thing I could remember about them was when everybody was cursed to do what they most wanted to, and the protagonist's monk gf did her final kung fu test too early and split her skull open trying to break a rock with it. all the posts are bringing back other memories, though.
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Sep 12, 2020 14:48
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Empty Sandwich posted:while I was a teenager busy being angry that Dragonlance existed, I also read and enjoyed all of the Drizz't books as they came out. I also bought each of the Cleric's Canticle books as they were released. The joke about the girlfriend, who I think was named Danica, was that she was a monk and could do things no one else could. This was because second edition D&D had done away with the monk class. So her entire character was a dig at TSR.
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Sep 12, 2020 15:02
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It's funny how whenever the subject of YA comes up, people quickly turn it into an excuse to poo poo on women.
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Sep 12, 2020 15:19
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there wolf posted:It's funny how whenever the subject of YA comes up, people quickly turn it into an excuse to poo poo on women. Wait, who?
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Sep 12, 2020 15:22
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sweet geek swag posted:The joke about the girlfriend, who I think was named Danica, was that she was a monk and could do things no one else could. This was because second edition D&D had done away with the monk class. So her entire character was a dig at TSR. my memory is that the Forgotten Realms had a monk class in 2e, but it was not good. I might be thinking of a very late 1e expansion, though. all I can find are in some late 2e expansions, none of which I owned
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Sep 12, 2020 15:59
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Horizon Burning posted:Big yikes from me, dog. If you were going to try and link the modern fantasy genre to anything, you'd link it to Tolkein. There's a difference between 'young adult' and Young Adult and Outsiders, Judy Blume, etc. get labelled as distinct from the Young Adult genre these days. Whenever people play this card, they're just trying to legitimize their tropetastic genre by saying Divergent is the same as Catcher in the Rye. lmfao @ this stupid post. lmfao "big yikes from me dog" do you read the things you write
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Sep 12, 2020 16:59
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I have a question about the drizzt books-- i read them years back, of course, never got to the point where he married Catti-Brie but i was familiar with them. I just flipped through the wiki and saw where reincarnated Catti-Brie is all genocidal. People in the thread mentioned this as proof that whatsisface the author had brainworms from 9/11, but the wiki says her being okay with genocide caused drizzt not to follow their god anymore and denounce the genocidal business? That seems like it's not exactly him going brainworms, so i guess im just asking like... what is going on with that? Is he really endorsing that position? Im missing some context here and wondering if anyone can fill it in. No, I'm not gonna go read the books, gently caress that. I have better ways to occupy my time. But that seems a bit less brainwormy than goons in the thread have portrayed it. What am i missing?
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Sep 12, 2020 18:05
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Lysistrata posted:I have a question about the drizzt books-- i read them years back, of course, never got to the point where he married Catti-Brie but i was familiar with them. I just flipped through the wiki and saw where reincarnated Catti-Brie is all genocidal. People in the thread mentioned this as proof that whatsisface the author had brainworms from 9/11, but the wiki says her being okay with genocide caused drizzt not to follow their god anymore and denounce the genocidal business? That seems like it's not exactly him going brainworms, so i guess im just asking like... what is going on with that? Is he really endorsing that position? Im missing some context here and wondering if anyone can fill it in. Im not sure, I feel like there has to be some other context too because the wiki doesn't mention that she STOPS being crazy, and yet she and the d-man still bone down and have a kid
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Sep 12, 2020 18:13
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To the best of my knowledge I think Salvatore is actually pretty left. I remember seeing a Twitter post from him on one of the forums a few months back that someone was using to make a "Welcoming Drzzt to the resistance" joke and someone else commented that this wasn't a new thing from RAS. Quickly glancing at his Tweets he definitely isn't a fan of Trump at the very least.
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Sep 12, 2020 20:35
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there wolf posted:It's funny how whenever the subject of YA comes up, people quickly turn it into an excuse to poo poo on women. Would appreciate a report if something like that was going on?
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Sep 12, 2020 21:43
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George RR Martin wrote in depth about a woman making GBS threads but I'm not sure which fantasy writer was into the making GBS threads on women thing.
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Sep 12, 2020 22:22
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sassassin posted:George RR Martin wrote in depth about a woman making GBS threads but I'm not sure which fantasy writer was into the making GBS threads on women thing. I think we have to wait until Odell Beckham Jr. retires before he has time to finish that novel he has kicking around.
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Sep 12, 2020 22:42
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Empty Sandwich posted:my memory is that the Forgotten Realms had a monk class in 2e, but it was not good. I might be thinking of a very late 1e expansion, though. all I can find are in some late 2e expansions, none of which I owned The monk may have been in some supplemental book in 2nd edition, but it was a standard class in the original 1st edition players handbook. For some reason they didn't put it it the 2nd edition players handbook, but to be fair a lot of 2nd edition AD&D was controversial.
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Sep 12, 2020 23:15
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Lysistrata posted:I have a question about the drizzt books-- i read them years back, of course, never got to the point where he married Catti-Brie but i was familiar with them. I just flipped through the wiki and saw where reincarnated Catti-Brie is all genocidal. People in the thread mentioned this as proof that whatsisface the author had brainworms from 9/11, but the wiki says her being okay with genocide caused drizzt not to follow their god anymore and denounce the genocidal business? That seems like it's not exactly him going brainworms, so i guess im just asking like... what is going on with that? Is he really endorsing that position? Im missing some context here and wondering if anyone can fill it in. I don't know that it was really brainworms but in the early 00s Salvatore had an arc that established an Orc kingdom that wanted to be civilized and work with the surrounding city states only to shift without a clutch and say that once the orc nation was subverted by the outside influence of followers of an evil god it was time to lead a crusade to unmercifully kill all of them. His books also kind of bounce around with the introduction of new editions and tie-ins so was it the start of a new campaign or box set release? So he never really came out and went full Nugent but it's interesting that he went that way during a time when Islam was being vilified by the right.
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Sep 12, 2020 23:43
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I'm not sure I've heard of Drizzt before this thread, but I now think of his apparent girlfriend as Cheese-Cat, which is kind of cool.
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Sep 13, 2020 00:06
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I lost my copy of The Color of Her Panties in junior high. Thankfully, the next day I saw it resting against the chalkboard in Mrs. Perez's room during either health class or English and I was able to grab it. I was surprised she didn't freak out over the title/cover with two topless women on it. I didn't think I was ever going to see if again.
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Sep 13, 2020 00:38
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