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Is the Shattered Sea Trilogy worth getting into?
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Sep 12, 2020 10:39
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Vichan posted:Is the Shattered Sea Trilogy worth getting into? From what I gather, opinions are divided. I liked it quite a bit though. The first one was the strongest, in my opinion. Maybe give it a try, and then decide if you like it enough to continue? It's ostensibly YA fiction, but basically the only thing different from Joe's "normal" output is that there are no cringe-worthy explicit sex scenes and nobody says "gently caress".
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Sep 12, 2020 10:53
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Its decent and nothing else
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Sep 12, 2020 11:45
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It's okay, especially considering its YA. read Frans G Bengtssons "The long ships" instead. Abercrombie took a lot from that book.
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Sep 12, 2020 12:27
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Fader Movitz posted:It's okay, especially considering its YA. read Frans G Bengtssons "The long ships" instead. Abercrombie took a lot from that book. My copy quotes him on the cover!
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Sep 12, 2020 13:29
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Warden posted:From what I gather, opinions are divided. I liked it quite a bit though. The first one was the strongest, in my opinion. Maybe give it a try, and then decide if you like it enough to continue? Iirc there’s still a cringey sex scene, it’s just less explicit I agree with all the “it’s ok” takes above. It’s not on the same level as first law, but I’m also like 20 years older than the suggested reading level so it’s on me really
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Sep 12, 2020 13:35
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Ainsley McTree posted:Iirc there’s still a cringey sex scene, it’s just less explicit drat, I must have forgotten it. I just remember things fading to black just before sex and resuming afterwards.
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Sep 12, 2020 14:07
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Think there was a lot more swearing and violence in books 2 and 3 also. Half A King deffo read like a YA attempt, the others just felt like First Law with a bit of edge shaved off.
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Sep 12, 2020 15:05
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Vichan posted:Is the Shattered Sea Trilogy worth getting into? not if you're over 16
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Sep 12, 2020 17:51
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I'm re-reading A Little Hatred and my biggest question is still why Shivers is with the Dogman. My best guess is he had a falling out with Calder after he let Logan live. But dammit, I actually want to know what happened. Shivers is one of my favorites and it seems so strange that this wouldn't get at least a passing explanation. So far the only purpose it's had is the little bit of suspense when he runs into Rikka. After that I see no reason why he couldn't spit out a "that's the reason I'm with the Dogman, after all". Also, he must be getting pretty loving old by now. He had grey hair already in Red Country. Is there a general timeline anywhere for the series? I know this series is about 20 years after the main one but that's all I've got.
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Sep 12, 2020 19:46
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Well gray hairs can start pretty early. Assuming 20 by the end of the first book, there is supposed to be 28 years between it and the new book according to what I've read. So depending on how old he plausibly was then... He could be pushing 50, in his mid 50s or nearing 60. 20 might be too young but it's been a while since I read the books. I guess Logen is pretty near death or been dead a while already by the time of this book, I imagined him to be in his late 30s or 40s in the first trilogy. His Divine Shadow fucked around with this message at 20:02 on Sep 12, 2020 |
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Sep 12, 2020 20:00
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According to the wiki it's 28 years after the original trilogy, 15 years after red country. He's definitely real old. I guess he's appeared in every book except for the blade itself? I think he's in the most of anyone, even if he doesn't have significant roles in all of them.
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Sep 12, 2020 20:02
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PopetasticPerson posted:
Shivers is probably in his late forties or early fifties. A Little Hatred takes place in 605 AU, 28 years after Last Argument of Kings, 21 years after Heroes. Shivers was apparently quite young during the trilogy, with the running gag that all of Logan's old crew remembered him as a boy, and were shocked enough time was passed for him to be a grown man. Logen killed his brother in 570 (the short story Made a Monster) when Shivers was just a lad, and the trilogy took place from 575 to 577.
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Sep 12, 2020 20:07
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PopetasticPerson posted:I'm re-reading A Little Hatred and my biggest question is still why Shivers is with the Dogman. My best guess is he had a falling out with Calder after he let Logan live. But dammit, I actually want to know what happened. Shivers is one of my favorites and it seems so strange that this wouldn't get at least a passing explanation. So far the only purpose it's had is the little bit of suspense when he runs into Rikka. After that I see no reason why he couldn't spit out a "that's the reason I'm with the Dogman, after all". Well he already met the dogman in the first trilogy and respected him, and scale was a dickhead, so he probably just figured that he might as well be ordered around by a guy he likes
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Sep 13, 2020 01:08
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His Divine Shadow posted:
Logen is still alive. 
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Sep 13, 2020 06:14
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Hughmoris posted:Logen is still alive. I don’t think someone like Logen gets to die peacefully, I could totally see him going out in the new books but even as an old man I don’t see him going quietly.
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Sep 13, 2020 06:27
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Logen was early 30s in the original trilogy, around 10 years Shivers' senior probably. Which puts them at about 60 and 50 respectively in the A Little Hatred. Shivers was with the crew when Threetrees fell and Dogman took over, making him among the first to call Dogman chief, and has a strong relationship with Dogman. On top of which Dogman has the most respected name in the North. I took Shivers' opting not to fight Logen after all at the end of Red Country as at least a little bit of a return to the philosophy that he had at the beginning of Best Served Cold. More of a hard edge obviously, but without the inclination to be an evil oval office, or be do the bidding of such. And while I was content to believe that Abercrombie let Logen die at the end of the original trilogy, I really doubt he gives him an offscreen death and we never hear about it.
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Sep 13, 2020 06:30
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I still think after Shivers decided to walk away from Logen, Shy's cult indoctrinated sister should've stabbed Logen in the back for the brutal murder of the dragon people. Not only do you not get a big glorious fight, but Logen dies in a lovely, disappointing way from the choices he made. (I also think Ellie was going to and should have put Joel down at the end of The Last Of Us, so er maybe I just have a problem with Horrific Murder Daddies.) Anyway, while I think all Logen's stories have been told, I reckon it was his popularity that got him brought back at all to be in Red Country, and will bring him back again. Wouldn't be surprised if we get a glimpse in the third book of the new trilogy as its so referential to the original First Law.
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Sep 13, 2020 10:14
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VagueRant posted:I still think after Shivers decided to walk away from Logen, Shy's cult indoctrinated sister should've stabbed Logen in the back for the brutal murder of the dragon people. Not only do you not get a big glorious fight, but Logen dies in a lovely, disappointing way from the choices he made. One thing I like about Red Country is that there's no way to clearly assign the blame for the bloody clusterfuck that goes down. Shy tries that after they're out of danger and has a near-breakdown, spiraling into PTSD while trying to work it all out. Everyone made their choices and all together they led to hardship, treachery and senseless slaughter. Another interesting thing is why Shivers decides to walk away. He's about to fight Logen when he glances at, from his perspective, Logen's kid snarling at him for threatening her father, and realizes that if he does this then he's no better than the Bloody Nine, and subjects the kid to the same things he went through. What he doesn't know is that the real reason the girl is snarling because she's wishing that Shivers would kill Logen for killing the Dragon People's leader who she still sees as her father.
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Sep 13, 2020 11:13
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VagueRant posted:Anyway, while I think all Logen's stories have been told, I reckon it was his popularity that got him brought back at all to be in Red Country, and will bring him back again. Wouldn't be surprised if we get a glimpse in the third book of the new trilogy as its so referential to the original First Law. I'm fairly convinced we've already seen him in A Little Hatred. Broad see's a large old man with a star shaped scar on his cheek in a line in Valbeck, thinks he's a veteran, and they almost come to blows. Logen has this scar (from the fight with The Feared) in Red Country and is as much of a shitter as Broad. Maybe more of one.
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Sep 13, 2020 17:17
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Xenix posted:I'm fairly convinced we've already seen him in A Little Hatred. Broad see's a large old man with a star shaped scar on his cheek in a line in Valbeck, thinks he's a veteran, and they almost come to blows. Logen has this scar (from the fight with The Feared) in Red Country and is as much of a shitter as Broad. Maybe more of one. If he only saw one scar, it probably wasn't him. Logen is described as being fairly hideous, with a face like a cutting board, the first time we see him from another protagonist's point of view, isn't he?
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Sep 13, 2020 18:10
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I tend to think Logan rode of into the sunset and was never seen again by anyone who knew who he was and died either peacefully in his sleep or somehow managed to fall off another cliff.
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Sep 13, 2020 18:10
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I'm fine with his fate remaining a mystery and I hope they keep it that way. There are figures of power moving around the periphery of the civilized world and i'm okay with a scarred old slab of meat that is very good at killing people being one of them. Pouring one out for old man Logen. Never forget when he was chased over the rooftops of Adua in the first book and you were thinking "Why is this guy such a big deal in the north?" and then they corner him.
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Sep 13, 2020 18:51
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Affi posted:
The first time Bloody-Nine comes out to play is probably one of the best scenes in any Abercrombie book. For the entire book Logen's been acting the regretful veteran warrior, with past deeds and overblown reputation haunting him, and then that happens, and it changes the entire way you view the character and you're left with more questions than answers.
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Sep 13, 2020 19:02
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My favorite Bloody-Nineing is definitely Red Country, at the precise moment that Glama Golden comes to fully appreciate the severity of the degree to which he's just gone and hosed Up. It gave me chills the first time and every time I read it after that. It has the advantage of also really being quite sad that Logan just can't get away from that part of himself no matter how far he goes or hard he tries. 
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Sep 13, 2020 19:19
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Affi posted:I'm fine with his fate remaining a mystery and I hope they keep it that way. There are figures of power moving around the periphery of the civilized world and i'm okay with a scarred old slab of meat that is very good at killing people being one of them. Yeah I'd be kind of ok with it if he never returned. I liked the character but it's time for others to take the center stage, and Logen is too much of a goddamned legend at this point to show up in any kind of capacity that wouldn't distract from the new story trying to be told. Like one of those WoW raids where thrall shows up at the last minute to strike the killing blow on the boss or whatever (I never raided in WoW but I'm told this happened a lot). If he does show up I hope someone kills him because that's the only thing I can think of that would be interesting (but then again I'm not an extremely talented fantasy author so my imagination is limited) I'm fine with Bayaz being a baddie again though, he's powerful and sinister enough to pull it off. Frankly, after how the first trilogy ended, it'd be very weird if he weren't around
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Sep 13, 2020 19:25
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Warden posted:The first time Bloody-Nine comes out to play is probably one of the best scenes in any Abercrombie book. For the entire book Logen's been acting the regretful veteran warrior, with past deeds and overblown reputation haunting him, and then that happens, and it changes the entire way you view the character and you're left with more questions than answers. It’s a loving masterclass in building up and delivering, you spend the book wondering why everyone is so nervy around the guy and then it happens.
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Sep 13, 2020 19:25
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PopetasticPerson posted:My favorite Bloody-Nineing is definitely Red Country, at the precise moment that Glama Golden comes to fully appreciate the severity of the degree to which he's just gone and hosed Up. It gave me chills the first time and every time I read it after that. It has the advantage of also really being quite sad that Logan just can't get away from that part of himself no matter how far he goes or hard he tries. Yeah, that one is great also. In fact, I went and fetched my dog-eared paperback copy and read through the scene yet again. The shifting POVs work real great. The first one, the referee is a pompous moron, but he catches on faster than anyone and realizes Lamb ain't what he seems, and betting on the larger and younger man with the bigger name was in this occasion the wrong thing to do. Golden's POV is also really good, he would rather be somewhere else, but he is taking things seriously and playing it safe until he snaps when laughed at and goes ballistic, hitting Lamb with his best shot, only to realize it did gently caress-all, and his opponent is not just any tough old man, it's the next best thing to death itself. And then we get to the merchant's POV and see what it would be like for a normal person to be caught in the madness of Bloody Nine letting loose and how it freaks out the whole crowd and starts a riot.
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Sep 13, 2020 20:03
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Ainsley McTree posted:If he only saw one scar, it probably wasn't him. Logen is described as being fairly hideous, with a face like a cutting board, the first time we see him from another protagonist's point of view, isn't he? I could see Abercrombie leaving Logen's fate up in the air. However, the scar is oddly specific to a character we know and has been described to us exactly that way before, and Broad's use of the term veteran could just be euphemistic in terms of his looks. I wonder if the old man will strangely show up at Jezal's funeral.
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Sep 13, 2020 21:04
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I'd be really disappointed if that really was Logen. There's just no reasonable reason for him to be there in the first place. It'd the worst kind of contrivance for him to randomly show up as some coal shoveler in a podunk industrial town. Plus, I don't think he would have handled the riot very well. The fact that there are people left alive afterwards indicates to me that Logen probably (hopefully) wasn't involved.
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Sep 13, 2020 21:33
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The physical description of him is pretty spot on, but nothing else about the interaction brings Logen to mind. The dialogue doesn't seem very northern, snapping at a yammering old man doesn't seem very Logen, and backing down from a fight specifically when he's in that bad of a mood really seems off character. quote:‘Shut your loving hole, y’old dunce,’ snapped the man in front of Broad. Can't picture a Northman using the word dunce.
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Sep 13, 2020 22:32
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PopetasticPerson posted:My favorite Bloody-Nineing is definitely Red Country, at the precise moment that Glama Golden comes to fully appreciate the severity of the degree to which he's just gone and hosed Up. It gave me chills the first time and every time I read it after that. It has the advantage of also really being quite sad that Logan just can't get away from that part of himself no matter how far he goes or hard he tries. This was my favorite as well. The reader knows it’s Logan at that point, but watching Glama realize it was great.
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Sep 13, 2020 22:34
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I couldn't remember what Golden did in The Heroes, so I went to First Law wiki to look him up and, man, the fan art of him is amazing.
staguar fucked around with this message at 01:26 on Sep 14, 2020 |
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Sep 14, 2020 01:24
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staguar posted:I couldn't remember what Golden did in The Heroes, so I went to First Law wiki to look him up and, man, the fan art of him is amazing. This series really needs some talented fan artists to get obsessed with it yeah haha. Some of the main characters have pretty good renditions but the supporting cast is...a real mixed bag.
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Sep 14, 2020 01:30
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I was upset at the visual novel because in my head, Logan looked like the dad Nier, and then they bring him out as some Andrew WK guy who was how I imagined Shivers looking I am also going to request a version of the visual novel with the characters replaced with the versions on the wiki. I want to see the full story of The Heroes, as portrayed by MS Paint Gorst.
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Sep 14, 2020 10:53
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I really imagined Logen as far older and uglier than most people it seems. Huge, ugly, grey hair, beard, and going bald. That was how I saw him in the original trilogy. But I guess I was pretty wrong on that front.
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Sep 14, 2020 13:53
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I think it is almost a plot point that most people can't figure out how insanely dangerous Logen is just by looking at him. Sure, he's big and scarred, but there are lots of men like that around. Hell, Shivers was bigger than him, and so was Glama Golden. Even Ferro underestimated him at first, thinking he might be slow because of his strength and that scars alone don't prove he's good at winning fights. Glokta managed to figure out he's a lot faster than he seems, but he thought Logen was stupid. Crummock-Il-Phail actually calls Logen out on that, and tells his kids that Logen pretending to be less dangerous before unleashing holy hell on some unlucky sod is a trick. I mean, he managed to lay low as Lamb for years with even the shopkeeper looking down at him. Warden fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Sep 14, 2020 |
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Sep 14, 2020 19:16
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Warden posted:Yeah, that one is great also. In fact, I went and fetched my dog-eared paperback copy and read through the scene yet again. It's fun rereading that and realizing the referee is supposed to be eb farnum, and then logen bashes his skull in during the chaos
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Sep 14, 2020 22:36
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Terror Sweat posted:It's fun rereading that and realizing the referee is supposed to be eb farnum, and then logen bashes his skull in during the chaos Oh my god, is that for real? Because it's perfect. I did read that Gunnar Broad and his glasses are based on David Bautista in the new Blade Runner. Or at least in as much as it's a giant, dangerous man with these tiny little glasses that he carefully removes and puts away before he hulks out. I went back and watched the movie again and now he's Gunnar in my head, which is actually a little unfortunate.
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Sep 15, 2020 00:44
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Joe Abercrombie blog as he was writing Red Country posted:I guess one could say that if Part I was a little bit Searchers then Part II rolled into Lonesome Dove territory and Part III has something of a Deadwood/Fistful of Dollars motif. I feel like I've noticed Deadwood themes in Abercrombie books before but Crease and its residents are explicitly influenced by it. It's one of my favorite TV shows and probably something you'd enjoy too if you're a fan of Abercrombie.
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Sep 15, 2020 11:25
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