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Can't believe it - I managed to bag a copy of Nuclear War for $10AUD! The guy bought it while in the US in 2012ish, so I think it must've originally been a Kickstarter copy, since it has updated art etc, compared to my dad's '80s copy. (Also came with a unique 'special' card, which I hadn't seen before. Must be a KS backer bonus or something) And it was $10 all because the box was slightly damaged! A tiny bit of glue, and it's barely any worse than retail. I've already taken the liberty of sleeving the cards and laminating the rules+mats 
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Sep 14, 2020 08:11
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How many islands do you use with the Norwegians expansions for AFfO? The way I'm reading the rules, you use the expansion isles, and then add 2 of the original isles for 3p games and all the isles for 4p. Optionally, you can just throw the lot of them whatever the player count.
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Sep 14, 2020 11:52
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Fat Samurai posted:How many islands do you use with the Norwegians expansions for AFfO? The way I'm reading the rules, you use the expansion isles, and then add 2 of the original isles for 3p games and all the isles for 4p. Optionally, you can just throw the lot of them whatever the player count. Latter. All of them. More islands is more fun. The main reason is that if have you rush expansion in order to get any islands at all, it feels a bit like family growth in agricola: very hard to win without lots of cool bonuses, and limited opportunities. It just kind of narrows the strategies, in a way. Makes you have to focus on expansion early or else. Allllll of them.
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Sep 14, 2020 11:55
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silvergoose posted:Latter. All of them. More islands is more fun. The main reason is that if have you rush expansion in order to get any islands at all, it feels a bit like family growth in agricola: very hard to win without lots of cool bonuses, and limited opportunities. It just kind of narrows the strategies, in a way. Makes you have to focus on expansion early or else. My table literally doesn't fit more than 4 islands and two player boards  Thanks
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Sep 14, 2020 11:57
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Fat Samurai posted:My table literally doesn't fit more than 4 islands and two player boards Stack em until bought. Or do you mean, not enough space for players to have the islands next to their player boards? I dunno, get some little side tables for all your stuff? Probably would be useful for other games too.
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Sep 14, 2020 11:59
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silvergoose posted:Stack em until bought. Or do you mean, not enough space for players to have the islands next to their player boards? Just general complaining that this thing is MASSIVE.
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Sep 14, 2020 12:15
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silvergoose posted:Stack em until bought. Or do you mean, not enough space for players to have the islands next to their player boards? When I'm playing 18xx's at mine, I have all the little side tables out: one for the unlaid tiles; one for the bank; one for the charters not in play; one for drinks and snacks. And also I have no more than 2 other people over. It's bad!
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Sep 14, 2020 12:23
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Major Isoor posted:And it was $10 all because the box was slightly damaged! A tiny bit of glue, and it's barely any worse than retail. I've already taken the liberty of sleeving the cards and laminating the rules+mats I never understand people who leave their boxes in shabby condition. Its so easy to repair them with a bit of glue or internal tape.
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Sep 14, 2020 12:37
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Fat Samurai posted:My table literally doesn't fit more than 4 islands and two player boards What are you talking about? AFfO has such a small table footprint. Put everything out.  Pregame shot  (Get Mini Expansion 1, as its adds 2 more islands) (Then get the new special tiles, cause it adds even more special tiles)
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Sep 14, 2020 12:37
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I wish I wasn't tired all the time so I could do a really good write up for Odin that basically boils down to "Buy Odin + Norwegians" Straight up one of the best times I've ever had at a table with a board game
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Sep 14, 2020 12:38
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silvergoose posted:Stack em until bought. That makes it hard to track the silver bonuses. Personally I'd go with the ruled recommendation of removing two islands from the (base game plus Lofoten/TDF) set for each player less than 4 and using what remains.
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Sep 14, 2020 12:57
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If one were to look at picking up Dune, would one be inclined to pickup the expansion at the same time? Or the base game is great as it is?
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Sep 14, 2020 13:06
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Fat Samurai posted:My table literally doesn't fit more than 4 islands and two player boards Same. When we play the game at my friend’s place we have to play it on the floor. They love the game but it’s obvious we don’t play it as often as we want because of this. The expansion makes it really fast too. You have to play the game twice to make the setup and tear down time Worthwhile
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Sep 14, 2020 13:38
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Infinitum posted:If one were to look at picking up Dune, would one be inclined to pickup the expansion at the same time? The base game was highly rated for 40 years before the expansion even existed.
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Sep 14, 2020 16:30
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Fat Samurai posted:My table literally doesn't fit more than 4 islands and two player boards You can try and make an accordion style holder for them and just sort out some way of tracking the hacksilver that needs to be on them. That's what I do even if space isn't an issue because it gets difficult to even see everything without getting up at walking around the table. I've got some tiered business card holders that while not perfect do a great job of eliminating sprawl.
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Sep 14, 2020 16:45
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Dune even at base is very, very good. Too bad my group doesn't "get" it and is not very interested in playing it. Thick negotiation of non-material assets is beyond us. The wrote off the game entirely when last game, Harkonnen and the Empire allied and the latter fed the former the funds to buy out all the cards, which appeared to the other players as an insurmountable advantage. Perhaps, but no one was attempting the wheel and deal but me. We stick to more direct conflict games instead, to my sorrow.
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Sep 14, 2020 17:18
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Rutibex posted:I never understand people who leave their boxes in shabby condition. Its so easy to repair them with a bit of glue or internal tape. Yeah, I don't know either, to be honest. It requires such a tiny amount of time and effort to be invested, to improve the look (and functionality, depending on where the damage is) of the box dramatically. Either way though, his loss! haha I'm still in the post-purchase adrenalin rush. This would've cost me a heap, if I was to buy it from a "competitively"-priced ebay seller! I'm hoping I can eventually get at least one of the expansions, but we'll see.
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Sep 14, 2020 22:18
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You know, after playing ROOT way more now that there is a digital edition, it really seems that the Vagabond is on a completely different page than all the other factions. I mean, in an asymmetric game where each faction has their own entirely different rules -- even so the Vagabond stands out as playing an almost entirely different game.
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Sep 15, 2020 01:16
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quote:today I want to talk about the Vagabond role. When I started adapting Root for Leder Games, Patrick made it clear that he wanted an adventurer to be one of the player positions. This was a bit of a design headache. As a system, I had imagined Root as principally geopolitical. This meant I was going to slam into problems of scale. If I built a combat system that was universal, making it work the same of a single adventurer as for a warband was just one of many problems. Then, of course, there were also problems making the idea of the lone adventurer fit thematically into the political argument the game was making about the connection between force and governance. Patrick pushed for the vagabond role against Cole's instincts https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1875336/designer-diary-exploring-realm He also took inspiration from Magic Realm for it, which makes sense.
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Sep 15, 2020 01:45
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Hah, the phases in Root instantly made me think of Magic Realm because of their names. But beyond that, I guess I kind of see some vague connections to the Vagabond now that it's mentioned. For example, the Vagabond's actions depend on their items, which is a novel approach game-wise. Speaking of Magic Realm, I liked Cole's description of Magic Realm as being "built before anyone really knew what fantasy adventure games should look like" and "There are [...] no levels, no experience points, and no hit points". Even the character classes are just... different. It's entirely possible to play the game solitaire, team-based, co-op, PvP, purely PvE, or start as one then switch to another -- with zero rule changes or setup changes to the game itself. It still works regardless. There are some outdated design elements that are straight out of late 70s / early 80s of course. I think Gutter Owl put it best when she said that in some ways the game could really use an updating/re-imagining... but on the other hand it probably would not come out the other side of such a process with all its limbs intact.
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Sep 15, 2020 02:02
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i admit i have basically no interest in a game which accurately models real world politics and factions, but "matters of scale" seems like the least of the vagabond's issues. it's incredibly simple to handwave away - Root is a fantasy setting, of course there's going to be a few Big Tough Heroes in the world who can take out a small squad on their own. in my eyes the vagabond's only real issue is how you aren't directly rewarded for displacing them as you are every other faction in the entire game.
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Sep 15, 2020 02:06
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Countblanc posted:i admit i have basically no interest in a game which accurately models real world politics and factions, but "matters of scale" seems like the least of the vagabond's issues. it's incredibly simple to handwave away - Root is a fantasy setting, of course there's going to be a few Big Tough Heroes in the world who can take out a small squad on their own. in my eyes the vagabond's only real issue is how you aren't directly rewarded for displacing them as you are every other faction in the entire game. Cole has a lot of time in history academia and a war gaming design background and that was the genesis of Root's design, so that's why he talks about it in those terms. Re: Vagabond we don't really play with it anymore with the variety of factions available. I think Root is best played 4p with this makeup of factions: 2 of Cats/Eyrie/Moles 2 of Lizard/WA/Otters/Corvid Things get too crowded with 3 of the top and too spread out with 3 of the bottom, and while the Vagabond is a lot of fun to play, I don't think his presence is as good as any other faction that could be in its place. Some of the factions benefit a lot from having the Vagabond clearing out the ruins, namely the Cats, so I'm curious what the overall balance looks like without him or if you just don't cover the ruins spaces if you're not using him. Bottom Liner fucked around with this message at 02:14 on Sep 15, 2020 |
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Sep 15, 2020 02:10
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I'd be down with not covering ruins if only to skip a step in set up
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Sep 15, 2020 03:39
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nordichammer posted:I'd be down with not covering ruins if only to skip a step in set up #1 rule is vagabond sorts and sets out all item tiles
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Sep 15, 2020 03:41
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I love the Vagabond thematically but yeah. Maybe he needs a balance pass. Mind you I haven't played him enough to have the rules memorized, but perhaps the Vagabond should be forced to pay more than merely one card to other factions for their crafted items, and/or perhaps other factions should get VP for smashing the vagabond's stuff.
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Sep 15, 2020 04:08
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If he has to rest twice he's basically out of contention, but that requires players willingly using an action for no self-benefit to attack him.
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Sep 15, 2020 04:20
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In a lot of my Root games, the Vagabond wins more than others because some other player needs to take it upon themselves to knock them down a peg but no one wants to step up because there is otherwise no gain in doing it. Or he manages to ally with someone but that person neglects to break the alliance by trying to murder him. Games are way closer when he is not in play.
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Sep 15, 2020 05:14
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Is the Vagabond stronger than the moles? They seem pretty outrageous all round.
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Sep 15, 2020 08:49
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The vagabond is like the prisoner's dilemma in that if nobody smacks them down, they will win. But whoever does smack them down will also lose since they spent an action and possibly troops attacking the vagabond for no advancement towards victory, and the vagabond may also be glad of the opportunity to murder your people and stuff for points, accelerating their victory. I can't wait til Root digital gets the otters. Let's also ignore the possibility of a Tinkerer getting three hammers and a Favor, so that they can ruin a specific suit for the entire game. God help you if another Favor gets discarded. GrandpaPants fucked around with this message at 08:55 on Sep 15, 2020 |
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Sep 15, 2020 08:53
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I played a game of Root with my friends, one of them picked the arbiter. He got a sword off his first clearing turn 1, I bit the bullet and attacked him to try and slow him down but he played an ambush. Another player tried attacking him turn 2 so he played another ambush. He pretty much won the game on turn 3. We started another game without any vagabond and had a lot more fun.
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Sep 15, 2020 12:15
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Root.. bad?
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Sep 15, 2020 12:23
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Nah I really enjoy Root. Vagabonds are fine if you play two of them imo, as they don't end up ramboing their way through the game.
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Sep 15, 2020 12:27
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lol that giant looking Hadrian's Wall game is a roll and write. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kk46XEoPtPY
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Sep 15, 2020 12:32
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You're going to make me pick up digital Root, specially if it has asynchronous MP. I remember some complains about the UI and the speed of animations. Did they fixed it?
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Sep 15, 2020 12:47
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GrandpaPants posted:The vagabond is like the prisoner's dilemma in that if nobody smacks them down, they will win. But whoever does smack them down will also lose since they spent an action and possibly troops attacking the vagabond for no advancement towards victory, and the vagabond may also be glad of the opportunity to murder your people and stuff for points, accelerating their victory. Wow this post reminds me why I hate almost all multiplayer conflict games!
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Sep 15, 2020 13:07
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silvergoose posted:Wow this post reminds me why I hate almost all multiplayer conflict games! We just played three player Cthulhu Wars over the weekend and the situations created by that game are pretty complex, there was no sense of having to go after the leader just because. You're on a smaller map, you really have to consider the consequences of what you're doing to promote your position. It's one of the very few times in my gaming life that I've AP'd. It's just a ton to think about and there's no easy way to bash the leader without giving away some of your position. But there are ways to do it, you just have to find them.
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Sep 15, 2020 13:13
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Mayveena posted:We just played three player Cthulhu Wars over the weekend and the situations created by that game are pretty complex, there was no sense of having to go after the leader just because. You're on a smaller map, you really have to consider the consequences of what you're doing to promote your position. It's one of the very few times in my gaming life that I've AP'd. It's just a ton to think about and there's no easy way to bash the leader without giving away some of your position. But there are ways to do it, you just have to find them. CW does sound like it at least tries to make the game not entirely isomorphic to munchkin, yeah, I would probably enjoy trying it some time! Civ/adv is my favorite multiplayer game that has lots of conflict, of course!
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Sep 15, 2020 13:17
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silvergoose posted:Wow this post reminds me why I hate almost all multiplayer conflict games! Yeah I'm really tempted to pull the trigger on Root, but super worried about this element. I'd been holding on to Forbidden Stars for ages, but offloaded it after coming to terms with the fact I just kinda don't like games where people punch each other, because it's so often just a negative sum game for the two combatants while the others sit back and grow in power.
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Sep 15, 2020 13:21
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bobvonunheil posted:Yeah I'm really tempted to pull the trigger on Root, but super worried about this element. Starcraft, which by most accounts is a precursor to fs, is great! But it's great as a team 2v2 game, which I don't know if fs really supports? Team vs team is such a different feeling.
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Sep 15, 2020 13:41
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Mayveena posted:We just played three player Cthulhu Wars over the weekend and the situations created by that game are pretty complex, there was no sense of having to go after the leader just because. You're on a smaller map, you really have to consider the consequences of what you're doing to promote your position. It's one of the very few times in my gaming life that I've AP'd. It's just a ton to think about and there's no easy way to bash the leader without giving away some of your position. But there are ways to do it, you just have to find them. That game was Crawling Chaos v Cthulhu v King in Yellow, as I recall. That's probably the most interesting combination from the base game factions. Cthulhu needs to fight, but also likes to lose his GOO if possible - something that isn't quite as likely against the King until Hastur himself hits the board. However, he also has to consider that while he gets benefits from losing his GOO, CC gains benefits from killing it. Crawling Chaos is very strong against the Hastur faction and will win the game if he's allowed to farm the King for Elder Signs, but if he concentrates too much on that then Cthulhu will roll him up like a newspaper. King in Yellow will absolutely win if the two combat factions spend their time butting heads, but they're both incentivised to come after him even though it costs them ground and at three players the map is small enough that it's possible to block the resummoning of the King.
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Sep 15, 2020 14:12
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