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SatoshiMiwa posted:I think if Brett ended up staying Shawn would of probably ended up leaving for WCW TBH
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Sep 14, 2020 08:06
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Going back a bit to Austin/Owen piledriver chat - Owen actually does that same spot but with a standard Tombstone vs Bret at Wrestlemania 10. Undertaker wasn't actually on that card, so I assume that's why they were okay with using the regular drop-to-knees version. This version of the spot was also in the Bret vs. Benoit on Nitro (Owen tribute) match. I always assumed Owen made a last-second adjustment and sat out when he remembered that the Tomstone was already "taken" for that night. But based on the account from Ausin posted earlier, it sounds like the decision was made ahead of time (just with some unfortunate misunderstanding surrounding it).
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Sep 14, 2020 18:35
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So I don't really watch much modern wrestling and I got into a discussion elsewhere about managers and valets. I know Vince, being Vince, hates managers just like he hates a ton of things for totally no reason. But are managers and valets an outdated concepts nobody uses in promotions anymore? That's what I was told since wrestlers are expected to be able to do their own promos nowadays and managers are very rare in any promotion, not just WWE..
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Sep 15, 2020 02:14
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NikkolasKing posted:So I don't really watch much modern wrestling and I got into a discussion elsewhere about managers and valets. AEW has a boatload of managers. Tully Blanchard managing both FTR and Shawn Spears, Jake the Snake managing Lance Archer, Arn Anderson managing Cody, Vickie Guerrero managing Nyla Rose, Leva Bates managing Peter Avalon, Kip Sabian and Penelope Ford acting as each others valets, Taz managing Brian Cage and Ricky Starks
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Sep 15, 2020 02:24
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literally every other promotion across all regions and genders uses valets/managers. vince does not use them because of the following reasons (which also apply to tag teams): 1) why invest multiple people into a single drawing unit when you can have them all be individuals that hypothetically all draw their own crowds on their own and therefore make vince more money? (this is dumb, acts that gel draw better together than alone, but vince) 2) diametrically opposed to the above but believed simultaneously, every group has a michaels and every group has a jannety and one is holding the other back from performing solo and making vince more money. 3) groups of people that vince depends upon to make money can then collectively bargain to make things go their way.
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Sep 15, 2020 02:37
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Even WWE hasn’t completely dropped them. Most notably, Paul Heyman has been managing Brock Lesnar, and occasionally others, for the last eight years.
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Sep 15, 2020 02:39
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Diabolik900 posted:Even WWE hasn’t completely dropped them. Most notably, Paul Heyman has been managing Brock Lesnar, and occasionally others, for the last eight years. ok have u heard brock lesnar's speaking voice tho
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Sep 15, 2020 02:41
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shiksa posted:ok have u heard brock lesnar's speaking voice tho Why would I watch the show, Paul?
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Sep 15, 2020 02:43
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shiksa posted:ok have u heard brock lesnar's speaking voice tho I am UN! STOP! ABLLLLLLLE!
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Sep 15, 2020 02:45
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Paper Lion posted:literally every other promotion across all regions and genders uses valets/managers. vince does not use them because of the following reasons (which also apply to tag teams): 4) it’s cheaper not to fly an extra person out to the shows or pay an extra person for the show
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Sep 15, 2020 02:45
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Davros1 posted:Why would I watch the show, Paul? Shine posted:I am UN! STOP! ABLLLLLLLE! let’s do THIS?!!!?
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Sep 15, 2020 02:47
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Am I right in thinking that Lesnar specifically requested Heyman after a month or two of returning to WWE? I remember he was given Laurinaitis at first, and he cut some disasterous promos of his own. Heyman may not be a good person but he's a great talker. I'm glad they got him back, I love him on-screen.
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Sep 15, 2020 03:11
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Yeah he apparently said “I need my Jew” or something to that effect
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Sep 15, 2020 03:22
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Seams posted:Yeah he apparently said “I need my Jew” or something to that effect Classic Aryan archetype Brock Lesnar!
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Sep 15, 2020 05:04
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Hedgehog Pie posted:Classic Aryan archetype Brock Lesnar!
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Sep 15, 2020 05:27
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NikkolasKing posted:So I don't really watch much modern wrestling and I got into a discussion elsewhere about managers and valets. like anything else, managers are terrible when used terribly, and great when used well. Taz as manager of Team Taz is a great example of a manager being used well. He's managing two guys who can absolutely talk in their own right, so rather than talking for them he elevates their segments by giving them someone to riff with. Cage and Starks are perfectly capable of getting over on their own, but Taz helps them feel like a bigger deal and a cohesive unit.
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Sep 15, 2020 10:25
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So this is an AEW-centric question, though it could apply to any television promotion. Could a half-hour/hour of strictly dramatic story-line progression once a week coupled with Dynamite work, and/or has it been tried? I know Lucha Underground, or at least my impression of it, kind of coupled both within the same program. With the proliferation of "cinematic" matches, as well as BTE skirting with this (though a bit more insider-ish), I wonder if something like that could work. At the very least, I'd be a little surprised if it doesn't get tried at some point. Or it'd be a train wreck, which, plenty of that stays on television.
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Sep 15, 2020 15:43
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I was just thinking about WWE's "the brand is the star" nonsense, and it occurred to me that you rarely hear wrestlers refer specifically to their own fans anymore. What I mean is stuff like "Hulkamaniacs" or the Rock referring to his millions AND MILLIONS of fans watching at home. Now wrestlers just love to entertain the WWE Universe and it's just another little dimension of everyone being replaceable and everything sucking. Anyway, when is the last time a WWE wrestler referred to their own fanbase on a regular basis? I'm thinking "Cenation" (which didn't even last too long) may have been it?
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Sep 15, 2020 15:55
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FakePoet posted:So this is an AEW-centric question, though it could apply to any television promotion. tna had an hour-long show that was all backstage stuff with cameras catching people at a distance or people talking directly to camera and i think it was among their better executed ideas but it didnt last more than a few months
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Sep 15, 2020 15:57
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FakePoet posted:So this is an AEW-centric question, though it could apply to any television promotion. I can see some merit in this (and AEW has done similar-ish things with the "road to" shows at various points). The problem you're going to run into a bit is that, at some level, people watch wrestling shows for the wrestling as well as the stories. On the other hand I could easily imagine a workable hour long show that divided into about two thirds story progression to one third matches.
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Sep 15, 2020 16:09
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Minidust posted:I was just thinking about WWE's "the brand is the star" nonsense, and it occurred to me that you rarely hear wrestlers refer specifically to their own fans anymore. What I mean is stuff like "Hulkamaniacs" or the Rock referring to his millions AND MILLIONS of fans watching at home. Now wrestlers just love to entertain the WWE Universe and it's just another little dimension of everyone being replaceable and everything sucking. Bray having the fireflies is the most recent example I can think of but I also haven't watched WWE in years at this point.
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Sep 15, 2020 16:29
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all the aew data to this point suggests that viewership immediately falls as soon as there isnt a match on screen so keeping it on their various youtube series is probably the right move
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Sep 15, 2020 16:30
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I watched a Luger/Blanchard vs. Armstrongs match in the underrated thread and really enjoyed it. Realized that the Horsemen pre-Benoit/Malenko era (except Flair, obvi) is a total blind spot for me. Educate me on Arn, Tully and Sexy Lexy (and I guess Ole? I don't think I've ever seen him wrestle). Bonus points for showing me a really good Lex match from any era. The OSW Lex series has put me all aboard the Express.
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Sep 15, 2020 16:52
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Yeah from all the information we have wrestling fans watch wrestling to see, well, wrestling: and while you need your promos and other segments to establish characters and to build up your big money matches you can't just throw it out entirely. The exception to that are your big stars who people tune in to see anyway but that's a small portion of your roster. You mention Lucha Underground and people always bring that up as an alternative way of presenting wrestling but the thing with that is that the viewership wasn't very high and it got cancelled twice so if anything the lesson from that is that while there are some good ideas you can borrow; their overall way of doing things didn't really work.
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Sep 15, 2020 17:07
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NikkolasKing posted:I know Vince, being Vince, hates managers just like he hates a ton of things for totally no reason. But are managers and valets an outdated concepts nobody uses in promotions anymore? That's what I was told since wrestlers are expected to be able to do their own promos nowadays and managers are very rare in any promotion, not just WWE.. FakePoet posted:Could a half-hour/hour of strictly dramatic story-line progression once a week coupled with Dynamite work, and/or has it been tried? I know Lucha Underground, or at least my impression of it, kind of coupled both within the same program. With the proliferation of "cinematic" matches, as well as BTE skirting with this (though a bit more insider-ish), I wonder if something like that could work.
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Sep 15, 2020 17:32
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Kane referring to his fans a "Kanaanites" was excellent.
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Sep 15, 2020 17:46
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Endless Mike posted:Kane referring to his fans a "Kanaanites" was excellent. Now I believe they're called "COVID patients"
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Sep 15, 2020 18:27
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So what's the story behind the beef with Eddie Kingston and Chris Hero?
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Sep 15, 2020 18:43
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Davros1 posted:So what's the story behind the beef with Eddie Kingston and Chris Hero? I recall that Kingston thinks Hero was talking poo poo about him to promoters back in their IWA-MS days and preventing him from getting booked. Hero also got heat in CHIKARA's locker room for hooking up with Shane Storm's ex-girlfriend so that may be part of it too.
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Sep 15, 2020 18:53
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CombineThresher posted:I recall that Kingston thinks Hero was talking poo poo about him to promoters back in their IWA-MS days and preventing him from getting booked. Hero also got heat in CHIKARA's locker room for hooking up with Shane Storm's ex-girlfriend so that may be part of it too. Was it Shane Storm's ex? I thought it was Eddie's old tag partner Blackjack Marciano's girlfriend? There was definitely something about him & Blackjack that helped the heat between King & Hero. But on the other hand we got the absolutely loving bonkers Last Man Standing match between them at the 2007 TPI which was brutal & great. Eddie just muttering "I'm going to kill you motherfucker" while choking Hero is chefs kiss stuff. Or the time he's saying "give me your eyes motherfucker" as he tries to gouge them out (it might be a really hard match to watch considering the reckless chairshots & sickening dull thuds of headbutts that would make Shibata wince though) forkboy84 fucked around with this message at 19:13 on Sep 15, 2020 |
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Sep 15, 2020 19:11
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it's a work and i appreciate eddie even stoking the flames on talk is jericho
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Sep 15, 2020 19:22
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I hate to reference it because David Starr is a piece of poo poo, but Eddie's interview on We The Independent distinctly gave me the impression that he and Hero basically resolved their bad blood by monetising it. They got out the actual ill feeling, then toured it in CZW, Chikara, and ROH.
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Sep 15, 2020 19:33
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FakePoet posted:So this is an AEW-centric question, though it could apply to any television promotion. Wrestling Society X was 30 minutes, and then they had a web-only "Dark" type show called WSXtra with less storylines and longer matches
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Sep 16, 2020 00:43
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MorrisBae posted:Wrestling Society X was 30 minutes, and then they had a web-only "Dark" type show called WSXtra with less storylines and longer matches I love WSX but the question was "could it be successful" not "has it been tried on a show that extremely failed"
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Sep 16, 2020 10:46
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Which I think could be read as an answer (both from WSX and Lucha Underground) that no, it really can't be successful because it is too far removed from wrestling as a simulated sport that is the skeleton of professional wrestling.
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Sep 16, 2020 13:11
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Does anyone know the song that RSP uses in GCW/Elayna Black uses outside of GCW? All I can find online are their earlier themes.
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Sep 17, 2020 14:25
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Wintermutant posted:Does anyone know the song that RSP uses in GCW/Elayna Black uses outside of GCW? All I can find online are their earlier themes. Last time I was paying attention, RSP was using Bad Rabbits - We Can Roll, and grabbing a random Elayna Black video, it's also that, so ? I went to check Run Rickey Run and you can't hear the music over the booing of the crowd. a) MOTY, b) I miss crowds.
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Sep 17, 2020 17:19
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Deathlove posted:Last time I was paying attention, RSP was using Bad Rabbits - We Can Roll, and grabbing a random Elayna Black video, it's also that, so ? Ha, I went to find a cleaner-sounding version of one of their entrances for you, and stumbled across one I missed before that had it noted in the description. It's this if anyone else was curious: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AVRCQBc59w
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Sep 17, 2020 20:17
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FakePoet posted:Could a half-hour/hour of strictly dramatic story-line progression once a week coupled with Dynamite work, and/or has it been tried? Back in the territory days, Hawaii had a second show which was an hour of promos
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Sep 17, 2020 20:25
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oh but seriously I posted:Back in the territory days, Hawaii had a second show which was an hour of promos Memphis did this too, kinda, Jerry Lawler had his own show called The Jerry Lawler Show, he'd use it to promote upcoming events for the territory. Pretty sure he also used it to interview local High School cheerleaders.
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Sep 17, 2020 20:33
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