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The Darksun approach to D&D magic is p good. You can be a preserver and simply tap enough life force from nearby vegetation with the option to go dark-side or straight up go NO gently caress YOU, DAD! and turn every living thing around you including sentient beings into ash and no-life zone for UNLIMITEEED POOOOWEEEERRR via the defiler way. Both are hated and hunted by literally everyone, on top of the mechanical limitations. It's p. good imo.
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Sep 15, 2020 20:29
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PetraCore posted:Oh, I loved that book as a kid. She is such a good author.
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Sep 15, 2020 20:39
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The Sartorias-deles books have a decent approach the fits with how technology tends to work. Anyone can learn magic and there are a handful of really common spells everyone knows. But becoming a magic user takes training with is heavily controlled because it can be really dangerous if you gently caress up. So power limits are moer about access to knowledge than anyone's inherent skill. You end up with places that have a lot of wizards and use magic for all kinds of bullshit, and ones that have almost none and struggle maintaining basic needs like clean water. If i remember correctly Tolkien also implies at some point that magic is something anyone can just learn, but most people either don't have access to a teacher or aren't interested. Like there's some line about how hobbits are just to simple folk to want to bother with spells and poo poo
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Sep 15, 2020 20:50
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it was really cool years later to understand that, no, Gandalf is not a Wizard, he's a literal high-order angel come down from Heaven and is just masquerading as some magic old man
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Sep 15, 2020 20:51
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Black August posted:it was really cool years later to understand that, no, Gandalf is not a Wizard, he's a literal high-order angel come down from Heaven and is just masquerading as some magic old man I always liked how there are like 9 Wizards but all but 3 just hosed off ignoring their mission to guide the realms of men.
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Sep 15, 2020 20:56
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twistedmentat posted:I always liked how there are like 9 Wizards but all but 3 just hosed off ignoring their mission to guide the realms of men. Which is pretty great since Tolkien managed to write some suitably 'realistic' angelic politics, what with Saruman becoming Fallen, Radagast becoming too enamored with the natural world, the two Blue Wizards just vanishing to another continent Whereas Gandalf finds the happy medium with hobbits and settles for amazing food, drugs, and wicked parties with friends before he steps up to the job of preserving the world so it can continue to have amazing food, drugs, and wicked parties with friend
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Sep 15, 2020 21:01
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my favorite wizard installed diablo 2 for me
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Sep 15, 2020 21:06
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there wolf posted:If i remember correctly Tolkien also implies at some point that magic is something anyone can just learn, but most people either don't have access to a teacher or aren't interested. Like there's some line about how hobbits are just to simple folk to want to bother with spells and poo poo Yeah, Galadriel talks to Sam about how it's funny that people call what she does elf magic when everything the elves do is perfectly natural, thank you.
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Sep 15, 2020 21:08
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in d&d studying won't get you better spells, you just have to kill people
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Sep 15, 2020 21:09
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I never did fully get what the deal with the Grey Havens and the end was though. Did Frodo essentially take a boat to Heaven without having to die? I was extremely happy Sam was given the same honor at the end for his bearing the Ring when I read it way back. Frodo and especially Sam were always my idea of what a Paladin should be.
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Sep 15, 2020 21:12
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He was granted passage to the Undying Lands to heal his wounds from the Witch King's knife and Shelob's sting and to ease the passage of his final days. It was specifically a gift from Arwen, but I don't remember how Sam got included. Tolkien writes in his letters that he and Sam would eventually accept the Gift of Men there of their own free will.
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Sep 15, 2020 21:35
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Black August posted:I never did fully get what the deal with the Grey Havens and the end was though. Did Frodo essentially take a boat to Heaven without having to die? I was extremely happy Sam was given the same honor at the end for his bearing the Ring when I read it way back. Frodo and especially Sam were always my idea of what a Paladin should be. So, uh, Frodo is essentially going over to live a much-shortened life but one that'll help him heal from the damage the Ring did to him, that's why Sam only goes over at the very end of his life, he was less traumatized by the whole thing (although still pretty traumatized!) and was able to recover quite a bit back in the Shire and live a happy life. EDIT: Basically they're not the undying lands bc they make you undying, but because the lands are undying.
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Sep 15, 2020 21:36
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PetraCore posted:EDIT: Basically they're not the undying lands bc they make you undying, but because the lands are undying. It's inhabited by the Undying, too.
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Sep 15, 2020 21:43
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Black August posted:I never did fully get what the deal with the Grey Havens and the end was though. Did Frodo essentially take a boat to Heaven without having to die? I was extremely happy Sam was given the same honor at the end for his bearing the Ring when I read it way back. Frodo and especially Sam were always my idea of what a Paladin should be. That is the common assumption since "West" is the immortal realm that you don't age or have any kind of suffering until you decide to join your broskis in Halls of Mandos. This is why Numenor tried to sail west and got Krynn-ed after starting to worship Melkor by Sauron. Re: Wizards IIRC, there were 5 wizards. Two of them (Alatar and Pallando) hosed off to East and got "lost" but nerds on youtube endlessly theorycraft about them. Tolkien's approach to magic is p good, it's mysterious and subtle while critical. I have some problems with "magic comes from bloodline lol" stuff but that's a quite centerpiece of the narrative so idk. Like seriously, I love stories about regular people overcoming obstacles through grit and adventuring sprit, not through midichlorians or other "heritage" poo poo.
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Sep 15, 2020 21:44
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I am way more interested in reading about nobodies who rise into legend and legacy through immense effort, instead of some losers who start out with 16 templates and a free legendary magic item
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Sep 15, 2020 21:46
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Galewolf posted:That is the common assumption since "West" is the immortal realm that you don't age or have any kind of suffering until you decide to join your broskis in Halls of Mandos. This is why Numenor tried to sail west and got Krynn-ed after starting to worship Melkor by Sauron. Black August posted:I am way more interested in reading about nobodies who rise into legend and legacy through immense effort, instead of some losers who start out with 16 templates and a free legendary magic item in fantasy genre it's only the bad guys who have to put in the effort probably mainly because the early authors who everyone else copied were upperclass royalist twats
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Sep 15, 2020 21:50
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The Witcher gets a pass due to becoming a Witcher is a choice/obtained (also requires training) and you can die during the process (iirc) and still can get killed if you are unprepared or severely outnumbered.
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Sep 15, 2020 21:52
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Sorcerers are bourgeoisie.
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Sep 15, 2020 21:54
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Galewolf posted:The Witcher gets a pass due to becoming a Witcher is a choice/obtained (also requires training) and you can die during the process (iirc) and still can get killed if you are unprepared or severely outnumbered.
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Sep 15, 2020 21:55
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I always wanted to write a story that starts off as "young boy is the Chosen One, leaves his mother at the behest of the Spirits/Oracles/King" or w/e and off he goes to do the fantasy book and jRPG deal. But even with whatever blessings he has, he's still a loving CHILD, and even with the help of his adventuring party he ends up very very dead. Eventually, this gets back to the mother, who now has witnessed powerful beings take her kid away to die. So she picks up a sword, leaves, and sets about annihilating both the Dark Lord AND the Gods who sent a kid to slaughter because they like blessing children with power to entertain themselves
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Sep 15, 2020 21:58
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I am sure there are hordes of nerds waiting behind the bushes to disprove me but reading LOTR in tyool 2020 has some serious  level overlying themes about "chosen people"I mean, I love the books to the death but, for example, the throwaway line about Aragorn, Eomer, Imrahil and the rest during the Pellenor Fields was something like that: "Many people died, many nameless heroes but Aragorn and the gang had a higher destiny and they didn't get a scratch". I was legit sad about Haldir and the two bowman twins literally got crushed under mumakil foot while highborn / elfblood people simply getting plot armored to victory. Maybe that's why I liked GURRM for no one having immunity from reality and how you can get killed like a dog in the medieval magic land.
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Sep 15, 2020 21:59
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I just give LotR a pass because it was a really different time and Tolkien didn't do much of the gross and creepy poo poo his contemporaries did
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Sep 15, 2020 22:01
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Galewolf posted:The Witcher gets a pass due to becoming a Witcher is a choice ummm
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Sep 15, 2020 22:03
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Yeah, it's not too much and mainly related to having literal magical immortal elf blood in your veins.
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Sep 15, 2020 22:06
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Black August posted:I just give LotR a pass because it was a really different time and Tolkien didn't do much of the gross and creepy poo poo his contemporaries did
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Sep 15, 2020 22:06
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sebmojo posted:ummm Don't you get trained first and used alchemy to mutate? Unless I'm reading the wiki wrong.
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Sep 15, 2020 22:08
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was the pigherd protagonist from prydain a chosen one with elfblood or just a normal kid?
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Sep 15, 2020 22:10
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Elf magic in Lord of the Rings is mostly just sufficiently advanced medicine and engineering. Aragorn has skills because he grew up in Rivendell and they taught him which plants to pack into wounds. Gandalf throws fireballs.
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Sep 15, 2020 22:11
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sassassin posted:Elf magic in Lord of the Rings is mostly just sufficiently advanced medicine and engineering. Aragorn has skills because he grew up in Rivendell and they taught him which plants to pack into wounds.
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Sep 15, 2020 22:14
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sassassin posted:Gandalf throws fireballs. He does not! He lit pinecones(?) on fire and hucked them.
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Sep 15, 2020 22:14
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Some versions of the First Age stories have literal tanks it's not just the Elves that got really good at building poo poo. There is a lot of very magical magic as well though.
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Sep 15, 2020 22:17
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Black August posted:He does not! He lit pinecones(?) on fire and hucked them. He definitely throws a fireball somewhere. sassassin fucked around with this message at 22:22 on Sep 15, 2020 |
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Sep 15, 2020 22:18
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sassassin posted:Elf magic in Lord of the Rings is mostly just sufficiently advanced medicine and engineering. Aragorn has skills because he grew up in Rivendell and they taught him which plants to pack into wounds. I think the herbology doesn't work unless you are from the Dunedain bloodline, does it? Aragon literally casts Lay on Hands on the whole Minas Tirith ER with the help of mint leaves.
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Sep 15, 2020 22:23
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sassassin posted:He definitely throws a fireball somewhere. I think he sets the trees ablaze and the flame spreads to wargs but I can't remember actual fireball. Gandalf tricking Stone Trolls in Hobbit is some  poo poo though.
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Sep 15, 2020 22:25
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Galewolf posted:I think the herbology doesn't work unless you are from the Dunedain bloodline, does it? Aragon literally casts Lay on Hands on the whole Minas Tirith ER with the help of mint leaves. he could do that because he was the legal king
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Sep 15, 2020 22:26
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It's really cool that despite being an angel, Gandalf is still fallible and has to struggle as much as the others to get things done
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Sep 15, 2020 22:27
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Black August posted:It's really cool that despite being an angel, Gandalf is still fallible and has to struggle as much as the others to get things done
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Sep 15, 2020 22:30
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Black August posted:It's really cool that despite being an angel, Gandalf is still fallible and has to struggle as much as the others to get things done Compared with Fingolfin riding to Melkors crib to 1v1 him and almost winning, Gandakf is pretty subtle in his style and I love it.
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Sep 15, 2020 22:34
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ChubbyChecker posted:he could do that because he was the legal king In Minas Tirith there's a folk tale that the king would have the hands of a healer. I wonder who came up with that (it was Gandalf). Aragorn knows Elf healing "magic". He does a bit to show everyone and then after dark Elladan and Elrohir sneak in and do the exact same stuff because it's just basic knowledge to them. It's explicitly not a unique magic power because he is the One True King.
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Sep 15, 2020 22:36
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ChubbyChecker posted:was the pigherd protagonist from prydain a chosen one with elfblood or just a normal kid? Eventually the guy who adopted him reveals he has no idea who his parents were so he could be royalty or not. He still gets to be king though. PetraCore posted:I relate to Saruman bc he was stuck in the same situation and just decided that gently caress it he was just going to make everyone do the right thing (he did not make everyone do the right thing). It's good characterization. Yeah, that part was really well written when he's telling Gandalf that they should force everyone to submit to their rule but it really wouldn't be doing things differently.
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Sep 15, 2020 22:47
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