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Same but sometimes I feel God Emperor being the second one. One of the Dune youtubers, Quinns Ideas, puts Emperor on no 1 but I think that's more of a street cred choice. Messiah has one my favorite sections where Paul tries to teach Stilgar about Genghis Khan and Hitler and Stilgar being all like "you gotta pump those numbers, those are rookie numbers" while Paul progressively getting 
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Sep 15, 2020 23:00
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I’m not surprised that everyone’s Dune rankings seem to be completely different. The only thing nearing consensus is that Dune is the best entry. But I’m always amazed that Messiah isn’t the consensus second best. It’s so similar to Dune, but with a few added (and cool) world building elements.
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Sep 16, 2020 00:04
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The gradual shift from mega harsh desert planet to fast growing vegetation and semi-abundance of water is sum good narrative. The Fremen fedaykin veterans rant about how he was free etc. was pretty much a perfect "be careful what you wish for, it might happen" situation.
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Sep 16, 2020 00:09
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Messiah is my favorite of the series, it makes the first book so much better.
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Sep 16, 2020 00:20
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I think it's the most rewarding re-read. Some of the scenes in Dune are such a slog to re-read (Paul and Jessica flying through the sandstorm.... ugh). Messiah is so short that any dull moments are over rather quickly. And the Tleilaxu/Guild/BG conspiracy is just so fun. The stone burner aftermath might be my favorite part of the whole series.
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Sep 16, 2020 00:24
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I haven't really felt a need to re-read past Messiah again.
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Sep 16, 2020 00:36
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Having read the first book twice (~12 years apart) and then the rest of them once, I think I'd probably read messiah again if I was rereading the first book. As pointed out it's shorter and I think you need that glorified epilogue. It also doesn't stall out at the two-thirds point before picking it up again in the ending as the other books all seem to do. So 1-2 are a package deal, 4 I could revisit on its own (although it's not as compelling to me as it seems to be for so many others). Children is the sloggiest of them all but still has some great stuff (Faradn/Jessica arc, Leto meeting the Preacher). Heretics has the benefits of being something of a soft reboot, 5-6 have some fascinating and weird stuff but I don't see myself going back. I kinda love the ending of Chapterhouse though but I'm not surprised if has made nerds mad for decades e: the lamer thing is what [redacted] and kevin j anderson apparently did to retcon it
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Sep 16, 2020 00:40
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Ingmar terdman posted:Finished chapterhouse, here is my ranking I never read Heretics or Chapterhouse but that's how I would rank the rest.
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Sep 16, 2020 00:54
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Jewmanji posted:I’m not surprised that everyone’s Dune rankings seem to be completely different. The only thing nearing consensus is that Dune is the best entry. But I’m always amazed that Messiah isn’t the consensus second best. It’s so similar to Dune, but with a few added (and cool) world building elements. Man, me too! I love as well, if you sum up what physically takes place in the book it's like five sentences long, but it's AWESOME!
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Sep 16, 2020 01:18
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Super Waffle posted:Messiah is my favorite of the series, it makes the first book so much better. Absolutely.
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Sep 16, 2020 04:28
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My only real exposure to Dune is the Emperor: Battle for Dune game and a vague recollection of the Lynch movie (I think I remember a giant space slug in an aquarium and lots of people whispering internally). I got the audio books, and am about five hours into the 21 that is Dune. I'm super into it, but my brain is going crazy trying to figure out how they'll get all the exposition without dragging the movie into a boring slog. I'm currently at the part where (spoilers, I guess) Leto, Paul, etc are about to try and rescue the harvester crew from A Big Worm with their ornithopters. The book gives us the information we need in an engaging manner. The "fish out of water" role is filled by a melange of characters once we reach Arrakis. But there's a ton of internal monologue that makes us privy to a character's knowledge, observations, motivation, etc. How are they going to convey that Jessica or Paul know someone is hiding something or lying? A soliloquy works in an unabridged Shakespeare movie by Kenneth Branagh, but an adaptation of a dense sci-fi novel? I feel like the people who've read the novels (or watched the previous movie) will be stoked at all the stuff they faithfully adapted from the books. Everyone else will be confused by them there weird sci-fi words that kinda sound Muslim, unable to comprehend what's happening. Someone tell me I'm overthinking this and it'll be great. The best, even.
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Sep 16, 2020 07:17
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its all nice on rice posted:How are they going to convey that Jessica or Paul know someone is hiding something or lying? The simplest way to do this is just change internal monologue into external. During a conversation between Jessica and Hawat, instead of quote:Jessica stared at him. He may be lying to me. You get quote:Jessica started at him. “Are you lying to me?” Or any other contorted method to get the same idea across to a viewer instead of a reader.
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Sep 16, 2020 13:43
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That'd work in some instances, but it wouldn't fit in others, IMO. Jessica and Hawat's conversation, after they arrive on Arrakis, comes to mind. Her openly stating that she knows he's hiding something while he states his internal struggle doesn't work there. I guess you could have her mutter something along the lines of "what are you you hiding, old friend?" after he leaves. It just feels like there's a lot of internal dialogue that keys in the reader that would also completely change a conversation or the narrative if it was spoken aloud. I dunno, though, I'm no film maker person.
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Sep 16, 2020 15:27
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tactlessbastard posted:
Vlad Harkonnen is Voldemort, Paul is Harry and Duncan is Hagrid, easy.
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Sep 16, 2020 15:34
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Odoyle posted:The simplest way to do this is just change internal monologue into external. Just have characters text each other and put the texts on screen
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Sep 16, 2020 15:38
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its all nice on rice posted:That'd work in some instances, but it wouldn't fit in others, IMO. Jessica and Hawat's conversation, after they arrive on Arrakis, comes to mind. Making it explicit also would drop one of my favorite things about the book - the idea that a lot of noble society is so trained in observation that every external manifestation that they take is a deliberate action with layers of meaning for different observers. Good cinematography can communicate some of this but not all of it - something like a close or lingering shot on Jessica's face could imply that she's suspicious. The heavy emphasis on internal monologue is one of the reasons that Dune is supposed to be "unfilmable" though.
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Sep 16, 2020 15:55
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euphronius posted:Just have characters text each other and put the texts on screen For some reason I was thinking about this when I was reading the excellent No-Meeting at the start of Messiah. Like it talks about how they're talking in a language with such subtleties that you can say 2 things at once with it just in the tone etc, but then because it's a Bene Gesserit there are like 4 things being said at once. Scytale managing to more than hold his own is super awesome. I was thinking how you could film it, and thinking you could have them talk in a weird accent (but still English) with coloured subtitles colour coded to each character. The subtitles say the kind of hidden meaning as though translating, but then you have the colour drain out of the subtitles up above them to form floaty secondary subtitles that say the third meaning. Obviously for this to work it would have to be SUPER condensed, and you'd have to be really smart with the pacing of it. But the idea is that it would 'feel' like your brain was being overloaded, because you're having to parse 3 things at once. But I think it would actually be totally comprehensible, because really it would just be hearing one thing, then reading one thing. I think the idea of 'honest subtitles' where someone says some kind of lie and it gets translated in subtitles beneath is something that's been done a fair bit, so that's definitely grokkable. Then the third layer being just more reading would 'look' nutso wheels within wheels but I imagine it would actually just read like something in parentheses. So the the idea was you'd go a few rounds of that, and then you could start doing shots where one person is speaking with their colour subtitles (so even though they're out of shot, you know who it is not just from the voice but the colour) and the camera shows another person, who moves a certain way, makes a certain expression etc, and from the movement a superimposed wash of their colour flies off them to form a subtitled response, to indicate the communication on that level. I think it would be really hard not to be super gimmicky with it, but I think if done well it could potentially be a very very cool scene to film, despite it being completely and utterly unfilmable. !Klams fucked around with this message at 16:00 on Sep 16, 2020 |
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Sep 16, 2020 15:58
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steinrokkan posted:Vlad Harkonnen is Voldemort, Paul is Harry and Duncan is Hagrid, easy. Who's the worm?!?
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Sep 16, 2020 16:02
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Just have every character do the suspicious Fry squint, constantly.
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Sep 16, 2020 16:03
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!Klams posted:For some reason I was thinking about this when I was reading the excellent No-Meeting at the start of Messiah. Like it talks about how they're talking in a language with such subtleties that you can say 2 things at once with it just in the tone etc, but then because it's a Bene Gesserit there are like 4 things being said at once. Scytale managing to more than hold his own is super awesome. I was thinking how you could film it, and thinking you could have them talk in a weird accent (but still English) with coloured subtitles colour coded to each character. The subtitles say the kind of hidden meaning as though translating, but then you have the colour drain out of the subtitles up above them to form floaty secondary subtitles that say the third meaning. Obviously for this to work it would have to be SUPER condensed, and you'd have to be really smart with the pacing of it. But the idea is that it would 'feel' like your brain was being overloaded, because you're having to parse 3 things at once. But I think it would actually be totally comprehensible, because really it would just be hearing one thing, then reading one thing. I think the idea of 'honest subtitles' where someone says some kind of lie and it gets translated in subtitles beneath is something that's been done a fair bit, so that's definitely grokkable. Then the third layer being just more reading would 'look' nutso wheels within wheels but I imagine it would actually just read like something in parentheses. In a art movie maybe but a big $$$$ Hollywood movie ain’t going to put words on the screen All movies of books are adaptions. Every adaption is in some way a compromise of the “original vision” of the book
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Sep 16, 2020 16:05
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Doing it like the Cumberbatch Sherlock would be interesting
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Sep 16, 2020 16:10
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its all nice on rice posted:I guess you could have her mutter something along the lines of "what are you you hiding, old friend?" after he leaves. 
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Sep 16, 2020 16:16
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TK-42-1 posted:Doing it like the Cumberbatch Sherlock would be interesting Baron Harkonnen kills himself right after capturing Thufir to "make things interesting"
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Sep 16, 2020 16:18
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I meant more of the text messages part rather than the inexplicable choices made by people to be so shocking.
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Sep 16, 2020 16:23
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Are ibad-concealing contacts mentioned in the first book? I feel like Farad'n is the first person to be described wearing them. Related to that, is the Baron's spice intake ever mentioned? It feels like as the series moves on addiction goes from being commonplace but not widespread to basically a fact of life for everyone we see
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Sep 16, 2020 16:33
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Towards the end of the first book a Guild Navigator loses one of his lenses and gets spotted having indigo eyes when his hand moves away from his eye for a moment.
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Sep 16, 2020 16:39
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TK-42-1 posted:Doing it like the Cumberbatch Sherlock would be interesting euphronius posted:In a art movie maybe but a big $$$$ Hollywood movie ain’t going to put words on the screen Yes, kind of like Sherlock, was what I was thinking, but Sherlock is very much an annotation of inside his head, I was thinking how you get those kind of inner-annotations to talk to each other. I realise colour-coding isn't exactly rocket science, but I can picture it in my head working well, and I just really really liked that whole scene. Yeah, I don't really mean for this movie. I mean, I don't think you get a big $$$$ Hollywood movie of Messiah ever, for any reason. Bigshot producer: "How does it end?" Messiah: "Oh he chooses to walk off into the desert alone to die." Bigshot producer: "BUDDY! YOU GOT YOURSELF A PICTURE!" I just don't see it. BP: "What's the money shot? What's the action sequence?" DM: "Like a big flash-bang goes off in a village and blinds a bunch of people" BP: "Can it be a bomb? It's more dramatic if it's a bomb, he can still get blinded" DM: "Well no, because he's supposed to survive, but it was meant to kill his concubine so that he would want a clone of her that he knew would be perfect because they showed him it would, so that he'd be whittled down by his own shortcomings" BP: "...What? We'll punch that up. So the hero swears vengeance and goes on a rampage?" DM: "....Nah, he knew it was coming and kinda just shrugs it off"
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Sep 16, 2020 16:40
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I'm on the train back home with some chest pain and having problem breathing (roni?), time to Dunepost: To add my previous Dune translation to Turkish and it's cultural impact, some random bits from that translation: The term fedaykin is quite a familiar word for us because fedai is also used in Turkish language but is actually an Arabic word. Fedai can have nuanced meanings that can be either "bodyguard" or "assasin" according to the context. Obviously that word comes from actual fedaikin, the Assasins / Hashashi which used dagger as their favorite weapon. Kanly is straight from old Turkish, meaning "bloody" and can mean as vendetta as in "He is my blood/enemy (kanli)". I remember being suprised when first reading it on the book because the translators purposefully didn't add a footnote but included it in the glossary. I think the word sietch is a Cossack term, I remember seeing it used in the book Taras Bulba by Gogol (maybe Franks original inspiration source). The Cossacks in that (and irl, obv) were quite like Fremen, nomadic culture with fierce independence and fought against the Emperor Phadishah of that era, the actual Ottoman phadishah  I remember that in the book they were meeting in siyeç , a hidden gathering point in the mountains. I find the translation of Hayt pretty clever as well. The translators used Nefr, which is a shortened Nefret (Hate) but also can double as shortened Nefer (trooper). God, I love Dune, gotta read it in English now I think.
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Sep 16, 2020 16:49
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I finished Dune last night and Rabban is... not really a character? He has a dope name and in theory is being a real brutal dude in the background but they’re gonna have to come up with something to give him more to do than in BR2049. And I don’t think the Beast wears tiny glasses that are the best thing ever so they’re already starting in a hole.
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Sep 16, 2020 16:49
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its all nice on rice posted:
I really can’t imagine doing an audiobook for my first go through of Dune, just because print makes it so much easier to refer back to stuff when I’m inevitably like “wait, what?” Also Nthing that Dune Messiah improves Dune significantly and I really like that it’s a shorter, quicker read than the rest.
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Sep 16, 2020 17:09
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Ror posted:I finished Dune last night and Rabban is... not really a character? Fat Man & Rabban spinoff
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Sep 16, 2020 17:12
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https://twitter.com/fellawhomstdve/status/1305207847882502145
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Sep 16, 2020 17:13
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uber_stoat posted:https://twitter.com/OriginalFunko/status/1305517954600235009?s=20
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Sep 16, 2020 18:05
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but it will never reach the heights of the lynch merch. which now seems so so odd.
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Sep 16, 2020 18:06
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One of the things in the first picture is not like the others. It's Doon. Sadly the translation is not as good as that of Bored of the Rings, or maybe Doon is just not as funny in the original either.
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Sep 16, 2020 18:11
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Galewolf posted:I'm on the train back home with some chest pain and having problem breathing (roni?), time to Dunepost: IIRC, there was an article (quoted earlier in the thread) which postulated that Herbert took a lot of stuff from a book about resistance to Russian invasion in the Caucasus. The translation stuff is absolutely fascinating, especially since I'm trying to learn Turkish (just for fun) and I'm actually sloooowly puzzling my way through Yüzük Kardeşliği right now (I know the original very well, but it’s hard going). Good to know that there will be another challenge waiting... Geçmiş olsun!
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Sep 16, 2020 18:22
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Ror posted:He has a dope name and in theory is being a real brutal dude in the background but they’re gonna have to come up with something to give him more to do than in BR2049. And I don’t think the Beast wears tiny glasses that are the best thing ever so they’re already starting in a hole. https://twitter.com/nickusen/status/1138805953841848320?s=20
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Sep 16, 2020 19:01
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https://twitter.com/DuneInfo/status/1306256648961503235
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Sep 16, 2020 19:21
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https://twitter.com/Musetta_May/status/1305487173999898629
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Sep 16, 2020 19:22
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I'm getting more used to Timothy-kun, ngl.
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Sep 16, 2020 19:40
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