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Who will you vote for in 2020? This poll is closed. |
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|---|---|---|---|
| Biden |
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425 | 18.06% |
| Trump |
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105 | 4.46% |
| whoever the Green Party runs |
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307 | 13.05% |
| GOOGLE RON PAUL |
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151 | 6.42% |
| Bernie Sanders |
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346 | 14.70% |
| Stalin |
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246 | 10.45% |
| Satan |
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300 | 12.75% |
| Nobody |
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202 | 8.58% |
| Jess Scarane |
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110 | 4.67% |
| mystery man Brian Carroll of the American Solidarity Party |
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61 | 2.59% |
| Dick Nixon |
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100 | 4.25% |
| Total: | 2089 votes | ||
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GreyjoyBastard posted:Could we please try to keep cross-thread helldumping to a minimum?
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Sep 16, 2020 21:14
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Son of Thunderbeast posted:You can call it cross-thread "quoting" or "drama" and still make your point. Calling it "helldumping" minimizes and dilutes the impact of actual helldumping, what happened in helldump, and what helldumping actually is. What actually happened with helldump? is there a source I can grab on that?
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Sep 16, 2020 21:21
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Cpt_Obvious posted:What actually happened with helldump? is there a source I can grab on that? I'm not sure exactly anymore, outside of "doxxing and toxicity grew out of control." Might be a good question for the PYF Sagas thread, or maybe the "explain this smilie" thread in PYF, since that sometimes fields historical questions too.
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Sep 16, 2020 21:29
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Cpt_Obvious posted:What actually happened with helldump? is there a source I can grab on that? Check the SAclopedia entry. Long story short: it was a subforum where you could use other posters posts as evidence to make the case that they were garbage and should be purged from the forums. Probably did some good for clearing out some generally trash people but I think got out of hand at some point and they shut it down. I never paid any attention to it so I dunno. Regardless "hey the poster you mentioned responded to this in a different thread, here's what they said" is a billion miles from helldumping and greyjoy is just being an idiot. Edit: found a medium article I think sort of covers the history well enough - https://medium.com/@Rationalist69/the-perpetual-helldump-d9043468f329
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Sep 16, 2020 21:30
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Helldump was basically an intra-forum doxxing subforum, and while there was indeed some comedy for 19 year old me to enjoy it was a very, very bad idea and doxxing is a perma-ban for a reason now.
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Sep 16, 2020 21:43
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i was barely aware of it but iirc doxxing was frowned upon but that didn't really end up stopping anyone
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Sep 16, 2020 21:46
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Yeah ideally you'd give anyone posting here as little power or authority as you can get away with. Giving goons carte blanche to go after their posting enemies is a recipe for disaster. *gives IKs the side eye*
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Sep 16, 2020 21:46
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Son of Thunderbeast posted:You can call it cross-thread "quoting" or "drama" and still make your point. Calling it "helldumping" minimizes and dilutes the impact of actual helldumping, what happened in helldump, and what helldumping actually is. fair point, helldump was largely before my time and i'll bear that in mind in the future
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Sep 16, 2020 21:47
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yea doxxing was 'frowned on' in the sense of 'you probably shouldn't literally post photos of someone's house and full address and phone number because they called you a bitch three years ago'
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Sep 16, 2020 21:47
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How are u posted:Helldump was basically an intra-forum doxxing subforum, and while there was indeed some comedy for 19 year old me to enjoy it was a very, very bad idea and doxxing is a perma-ban for a reason now. Ah, good, you're here in this thread- do you want to talk about the stuff that was brought over from the other one?
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Sep 16, 2020 21:58
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rscott posted:Let's take a detour from Jarmak's fact free posting to check in on how Virginia is doing, after all it's been held up by liberals as a model of how progressive action is actually possible by working within the system: aw man thats sad.
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Sep 16, 2020 22:02
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"And we can repeat that disappointment in every state we win outside of Virginia!" - Chuck Schumer probably
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Sep 16, 2020 22:05
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Killing a bill that would require cops having to identify themselves. Thank goodness someone is finally standing up for the right of police to practice their abuse anonymously. Vote blue no matter who!
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Sep 16, 2020 22:09
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Wicked Them Beats posted:Killing a bill that would require cops having to identify themselves. Thank goodness someone is finally standing up for the right of police to practice their abuse anonymously. Vote blue no matter who! Yeah you see if the police have to identify themselves how would we stop the ANTIFA planes from dropping ANTIFA paratroopers onto the white house lawn and and and *garbled pro police chatter with slightly racist understand*
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Sep 16, 2020 22:13
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Pentecoastal Elites posted:I certainly agree that it is going somewhere! Specifically, rightwards. Wicked Them Beats posted:Message from a Californian to my friends in Virginia: the good things you're anticipating are never going to happen. There will always be another reason why it needs to wait. It doesn't matter how Democratic your government gets or how large your majorities are, you're going to be asked to wait for a more convenient season that will never come. Yeah, also from California, and I've emphasized this several times here; even if you completely crush your state's GOP, they're just going to join the Democrats and will be welcomed by them (VA is already seeing this with the attempts to bring in an actual Republican to primary Lee Carter), and even outright supermajorities will regularly fail to accomplish basic progressive goals despite effectively implementing awful neoliberal bullshit. Things will probably be better than most of the country in a lot of ways, but it'll still be far, far from good, and most of the promises they made you will go unfulfilled.
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Sep 16, 2020 22:19
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Timeless Appeal posted:Real question to NoJoes, and I hope not an a condescending one: Do you believe it is possible to be a Progressive or even a Leftist and vote for Joe Biden? Who you vote for is a tiny part of your politics. If a coworker voted for Trump but would cover for me with the boss if I took a long lunch, they have good politics on balance. platzapS fucked around with this message at 22:55 on Sep 16, 2020 |
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Sep 16, 2020 22:28
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Maybe my timeline is hosed up, but Helldump came around at the same time that GBS went from a highly structured, long-thread format forum to FYAD 2.0, right?
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Sep 16, 2020 22:31
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Wicked Them Beats posted:Message from a Californian to my friends in Virginia: the good things you're anticipating are never going to happen. There will always be another reason why it needs to wait. It doesn't matter how Democratic your government gets or how large your majorities are, you're going to be asked to wait for a more convenient season that will never come. Wasn't it in California where years before Bernie and Obama democrats were pushing single payer healthcare bills out of the legislature for Governor Terminator to veto away and somehow once the governor was no longer a republican those bills stopped being passed by the legislature despite nominally moving more pro Dem?
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Sep 16, 2020 22:35
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Ciprian Maricon posted:Wasn't it in California where years before Bernie and Obama democrats were pushing single payer healthcare bills out of the legislature for Governor Terminator to veto away and somehow once the governor was no longer a republican those bills stopped being passed by the legislature despite nominally moving more pro Dem? Yes, coming up on ten years of uninterrupted Democratic dominance and single-payer healthcare has been repeatedly tabled in that time. Newsom convened a commission at the beginning of the year to prepare a report about the feasibility of single-payer, but they've used the wildfires and COVID as an excuse to shut down their efforts until Feb 2021. Holding out hopes that Year 11 will finally be the year!
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Sep 16, 2020 22:50
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https://www.npr.org/2020/09/16/913693757/whistleblower-complaint-alleges-a-high-number-of-hysterectomies-at-ice-facility So the hysterectomies have been going on for 6 years. I guess this is the point where we can separate those who actually care about immigrants and pieces of human filth who only care about using immigrants as props
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Sep 16, 2020 22:53
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I genuinely hope that Biden commits to closing them. Hell, I genuinely hope that Trump commits to closing them. I'm so glad that big brain folks on Twitter are asking why no vasectomies in full "gender equality in our genocide please" mode. Also it should be discomforting to find out that this started under Obama but it's really not, at this point. He was as bad as we've been saying.
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Sep 16, 2020 22:59
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joepinetree posted:https://www.npr.org/2020/09/16/913693757/whistleblower-complaint-alleges-a-high-number-of-hysterectomies-at-ice-facility loving of course, these camps were always a major structure of violence and white supremacy. Has Biden even addressed this?
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Sep 16, 2020 23:00
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Wicked Them Beats posted:Yes, coming up on ten years of uninterrupted Democratic dominance and single-payer healthcare has been repeatedly tabled in that time. Newsom convened a commission at the beginning of the year to prepare a report about the feasibility of single-payer, but they've used the wildfires and COVID as an excuse to shut down their efforts until Feb 2021. Healthcare, like homelessness, is something that kind of has to be handled at the federal level. Any time a city starts a program to seriously help the homeless they get swamped with other states exporting their homeless in response. If a state like California, Colorado, Vermont etc passed a single payer plan today I would seriously consider moving into a storage shed so I could take advantage and my life doesn't even depend on it right now. Somfin posted:I genuinely hope that Biden commits to closing them.
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Sep 16, 2020 23:01
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sexpig by night posted:loving of course, these camps were always a major structure of violence and white supremacy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXOlvWw8uXs
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Sep 16, 2020 23:02
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sexpig by night posted:loving of course, these camps were always a major structure of violence and white supremacy. No, and this is probably the reason why. He's going to have to figure out how to avoid responsibility from his involvement in the Obama administration while simultaneously taking credit for his involvement in the Obama administration.
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Sep 16, 2020 23:02
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joepinetree posted:https://www.npr.org/2020/09/16/913693757/whistleblower-complaint-alleges-a-high-number-of-hysterectomies-at-ice-facility I can't wait to see how the good folks of DnD argue that when the senate refused to give Obama 3.7 million for the border, he just had to force women have hysterectomies, there was just no other option.
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Sep 16, 2020 23:23
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Timeless Appeal posted:Real question to NoJoes, and I hope not an a condescending one: Do you believe it is possible to be a Progressive or even a Leftist and vote for Joe Biden? Yes. Voting ain't politics.
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Sep 16, 2020 23:27
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Minion of Freya posted:Obama committed to closing Gitmo but whelped out with a lack of funding excuse. This one's slightly weirder than I thought it would be when I looked into it- if you look at the population held in Gitmo over the course of his admin, it does genuinely dwindle down from "too fuckin' many" to "woah, that few, really?" It seems like there was a genuine attempt to get rid of the fuckin' thing gradually by depopulating it. Of course, the problem with incrementalism rears its ugly head again as all that progress can be extremely easily reversed if it's not locked in in time.
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Sep 16, 2020 23:28
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Somfin posted:This one's slightly weirder than I thought it would be when I looked into it- if you look at the population held in Gitmo over the course of his admin, it does genuinely dwindle down from "too fuckin' many" to "woah, that few, really?" It seems like there was a genuine attempt to get rid of the fuckin' thing gradually by depopulating it. That’s the problem with timid incrementalism instead of ‘radical’ big changes: if the Trump or Biden administrations decide to reverse that, Gitmo is still open, and there’s nothing stopping them from sending new prisoners and going right back to torturing Muslims there. It’s a lot harder to reverse course if the previous administration said gently caress decorum, released any remaining ‘gray area’ prisoners, bulldozed the prison, and gave the land to the Cuban government.
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Sep 16, 2020 23:37
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Somfin posted:This one's slightly weirder than I thought it would be when I looked into it- if you look at the population held in Gitmo over the course of his admin, it does genuinely dwindle down from "too fuckin' many" to "woah, that few, really?" It seems like there was a genuine attempt to get rid of the fuckin' thing gradually by depopulating it. That's not really a fair description at all, of the detainees released from Guantanamo bay the vast majority, some 500 were released by the Bush administration, Obama only released, or transferred away some 190 detainees. They literally just could not hold these people, many of whom werent even suspected of terrorism activity after being detained. The idea that Obama slowly released them because he was trying to honor his campaign promise doesn't real hold up to scrutiny IMO.
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Sep 16, 2020 23:38
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Ciprian Maricon posted:That's not really a fair description at all, of the detainees released from Guantanamo bay the vast majority, some 500 were released by the Bush administration, Obama only released, or transferred away some 190 detainees. They literally just could not hold these people, many of whom werent even suspected of terrorism activity after being detained. The idea that Obama slowly released them because he was trying to honor his campaign promise doesn't real hold up to scrutiny IMO. Absolutely. I'm not saying that there was a genuine attempt, just that there seems to have been one. Like, the appearance of one. Enough that my stupid lib rear end was convinced at the time, anyway. Knowing that Obama was A-OK either knowing (real fuckin bad) or not knowing (just as bad for different reasons) that forced hysterectomies were going on in his detention centres has coloured my thoughts on this, natch.
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Sep 16, 2020 23:41
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Shammypants posted:I'm not sure any party seeking to win should fight for a rival on technicalities? Why would they? Someone can tell me if I am wrong but the bar for getting on the ballot is Wisconsin was super loving low. Greens got 30,000 votes in the Presidential election of 2016 in Wisconsin and only needed like 2,000 signatures to get on the ballot in November 2020. They can't get that? Incredibly, even with the dismissed signatures, they only needed 309 more signatures. In a year as important as this, with 8 years of Sanders behind us and increasing waves of interest in progressive politics the Greens couldn't pull that? Interest in the Green Party in Wisconsin is 1/3 the level of Nader and barely squeaks by a threshold of voting one would see for student body president of a high school. Screwing people out of ballot access is a time-honored tradition. See, e.g., Obama's first electoral runs in IL.
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Sep 16, 2020 23:49
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joepinetree posted:https://www.npr.org/2020/09/16/913693757/whistleblower-complaint-alleges-a-high-number-of-hysterectomies-at-ice-facility This is a good example of the people who are constantly optimistic about these things changing fundamentally not understanding what causes them. These organizations do these things because they are full of terrible people and it doesn't matter who the president is if those organizations are going to continue existing while being staffed by the same people. It doesn't even matter if Biden makes some "don't do this stuff" executive order, because this still will continue happening unless there's some strong enforcement mechanism. It's the same reason why the solutions Democrats propose for police brutality won't work. "Defunding" was always the incrementalist position on that issue, since even it would be woefully insufficient; it would just marginally weaken the power police have. I think that the people saying this stuff think they care about these things, though. Like, when they're talking about stuff happening under Trump, they probably honestly think it's bad at the time. It's just that they stop caring about it when it can't be blamed on a Republican.
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Sep 16, 2020 23:50
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How are u posted:I don't see why people in this thread who are voting green aren't more upset by this. I would be furious if my state Dems hosed up this badly. Are y'all not calling the national green party to yell at them for incompetence? That's like blaming a rape victim for what she was wearing at the time.
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Sep 16, 2020 23:52
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Marx Was A Lib posted:I'm reminded of stories of colleges being told they were no longer in compliance with polling place regulations and being shut down. Yeah; the 8-hour lines & closed polling places on campuses & in Latino precincts didn't help, either.
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Sep 16, 2020 23:54
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Willa Rogers posted:That's like blaming a rape victim for what she was wearing at the time. Look, if they didn't want to get shot to death by the cops during a "random" stop, they should have kept their taillights up to scratch and also not looked like they were going for a gun when asked for their licence and registration
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Sep 16, 2020 23:56
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You can be drat sure that since both parties are responsible for this tragedy, no major media apparatus will focus on it for longer than a day or two.
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Sep 17, 2020 00:00
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Minion of Freya posted:Healthcare, like homelessness, is something that kind of has to be handled at the federal level. Any time a city starts a program to seriously help the homeless they get swamped with other states exporting their homeless in response. If a state like California, Colorado, Vermont etc passed a single payer plan today I would seriously consider moving into a storage shed so I could take advantage and my life doesn't even depend on it right now. Most plans that have been put forward recognize that the costs are high. Realistically it would require permission from the Federal government to allow the state to redirect/repurpose Medicaid and other funds, which would cover something like 70% of the cost. Obviously Trump would never give that permission but that doesn't explain the six years under Obama and a full California Dem supermajority where no action was taken. And your average poor person in another state can't afford a shack in California for a month, let alone for however long they would need to meet whatever residency requirements were established.
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Sep 17, 2020 00:07
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Ciprian Maricon posted:Im ready for it. I hate Biden and his forthcoming brutal austerity is going to be miserable but at least I'm looking forward to being able to discuss the failures of our government without the endless screeching about a cheetoh in the white house. lol if you think there will be discussions of the failures in a Biden presidency by mass media or Dem voters. Most Dems are still defending the immigrant-families-in-cages & $8k/year-obamacare-deductibles decisions made 10 years ago. eta: Not to mention 2011's Grand Bargain, which only failed bc of the teapartiers.
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Sep 17, 2020 00:11
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"Listen, it may not be the progress you want, but it is progress." -every liberal in 2022 when asked about Biden gutting Social Security to increase funding to police departments
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Sep 17, 2020 00:25
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