|
Shame Boy posted:I swear there was a story or twilight zone episode or something about this but I can't for the life of me find it. It's about an astronaut that embarks on a 30 year trip (that's only 5 years for him due to time dilation) to be the first dude to travel to another star system. He leaves his love behind knowing that when he returns he will have only aged 10 years but she'd be dead or a very old woman. But when he gets there he finds that other people got there first using faster ships and it was already built up and thriving, and his ship had been pretty much completely forgotten. To show his devotion to his love he like, hangs around long enough or does something to age himself 60 years instead of 10, then heads home. But twilight zone twist, when he gets back it turns out she got into a stasis pod to try to stay the same age as him and he's now an almost dead old man and she's still young and spry, doo DOO doo doo doo DOO doo doo. Wikipedia posted:"Far Centaurus" is a science fiction short story by Canadian-American writer A. E. van Vogt, ...
|
#
?
Sep 16, 2020 18:37
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 06:53 |
|
|
Shame Boy posted:I swear there was a story or twilight zone episode or something about this but I can't for the life of me find it. It's about an astronaut that embarks on a 30 year trip (that's only 5 years for him due to time dilation) to be the first dude to travel to another star system. He leaves his love behind knowing that when he returns he will have only aged 10 years but she'd be dead or a very old woman. But when he gets there he finds that other people got there first using faster ships and it was already built up and thriving, and his ship had been pretty much completely forgotten. To show his devotion to his love he like, hangs around long enough or does something to age himself 60 years instead of 10, then heads home. But twilight zone twist, when he gets back it turns out she got into a stasis pod to try to stay the same age as him and he's now an almost dead old man and she's still young and spry, doo DOO doo doo doo DOO doo doo. The Long Morrow
|
|
#
?
Sep 16, 2020 18:51
|
|
|
 i recently watched all of the twilight zone episodes available on streaming but i don't remember any of these. it seems like i missed a whole dang season, shucks
|
|
#
?
Sep 16, 2020 19:22
|
|
|
i mean, i suppose it's a factor, if time dilation is a concern there's a very real chance a sci-fi author knows better than me, but doesn't time dilation only come into effect on the return trip? unless the advances were made within the time frame of the journey from earth (which should mostly agree with a clock on earth as i understand it) e: for the curious, and to more easily correct mistakes in my understanding: as i understand it, during the trip from earth the acceleration of the ship does not cause time dilation because as far as physics is concerned earth is also accelerating away from the ship at whatever fraction of c. on the return trip, the ship is now accelerating towards earth, which places the ship in an accelerating reference frame relative to earth which is placed in an inertial frame. i am almost certainly wrong about some part of this. e:2: okay it's more complicated. it's the fact that the ship experiences two accelerating reference frames (to and from) relative to earth's inertial frame. so it seems that the frames of reference are what count, but there's nothing special about travelling in one direction or the other relative to an inertial frame. e3: okay, so you'd probably have to work out a calculation which took into account the frames of the earth, the first outgoing ship, and the second outgoing ship. so it depends on math i think, which shouldn't surprise me. Hodgepodge has issued a correction as of 20:17 on Sep 16, 2020 |
|
#
?
Sep 16, 2020 19:28
|
|
|
Ah yep that's it, thanks!
|
|
#
?
Sep 16, 2020 20:36
|
|
|
Hodgepodge posted:it's the fact that the ship experiences two accelerating reference frames (to and from) relative to earth's inertial frame. Yeah that's why it's called relativity  It makes a little more sense when you conceptualize it like this: the speed of light is constant, everyone in the entire universe no matter what they're doing will agree on the speed of light. In order to make that happen, everything else changes. The guy in the ship suddenly finds that the distance he has to travel is shorter and it only takes him 10 years to cover instead of 30, while the guy on Earth looks at the ship and sees that one second on the ship is taking three times longer than one second on Earth. They both agree that the speed of light is 299,792,458 meters per second, they just don't agree on what a "meter" or a "second" physically is.
|
|
#
?
Sep 16, 2020 20:46
|
|
|
Hodgepodge posted:i mean, i suppose it's a factor, if time dilation is a concern It's even easier. You just work out the paths in spacetime in one frame, then take the integral of the paths to calculate the proper time experienced by each object. Yes it's called proper time. It's how much you actually spent. Anyway when you work it out like that, the thing that changed its speed will age slower. It's easier to do this calculation from the point of view of the stationary object, as that involves a static inertial frame. But you can do the math in general relativity from the other frame and get the correct result, you will kill yourself doing the math though. It's actually why it's called relativity: even though perception is relative for each observer, the finalresult of all physical processes is something all observers agree on. This is almost by definition - if observers actually disagreed, it wouldn't be consistent. One of those processes is the speed of light, and the constancy of that speed gives rise to the 'weird' effects. e; it's a common misconception that you need the return trip. You don't, the process happens without it. But to meaningfully compare the 'age' of an object they have to meet at some point in spacetime, and so the traveller has to return. dex_sda has issued a correction as of 21:37 on Sep 16, 2020 |
|
#
?
Sep 16, 2020 21:31
|
|
|
Shame Boy posted:Somehow the dude I'm thinking of was not Big Yud it was some other guy. They're tied to bitcoin in my memory, I don't remember why. big yud doesnt want robot jesus, he wants to make sure any sentient life form can be subjugated so as to not harm us/him
|
|
#
?
Sep 16, 2020 21:35
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/hardmoneymag/status/1306239762785861635?s=20
|
|
#
?
Sep 16, 2020 21:38
|
|
|
dex_sda posted:It's even easier. You just work out the paths in spacetime in one frame, then take the integral of the paths to calculate the proper time experienced by each object. Yes it's called proper time. It's how much you actually spent. it just occurred to me that this is also true for our measurement of the speed of light itself. because there's no way to establish a convention for synchronization of clocks at two separate points, we can't really measure the one way speed of light, but instead use the two way speed from an emitter to a mirror and back. or so wikipedia has attempted to explain to me with questionable efficacy
|
|
#
?
Sep 16, 2020 21:44
|
|
|
Hodgepodge posted:it just occurred to me that this is also true for our measurement of the speed of light itself. because there's no way to establish a convention for synchronization of clocks at two separate points, we can't really measure the one way speed of light, but instead use the two way speed from an emitter to a mirror and back. there's a synchronisation method that's meaningful in flat spacetime - which is what einstein used at the start. it's moving the clock with 0 speed lol. basically, just assume negligible speed so no time dilation occurs. But the clocks still need to meet. the other method is light pulses and it's a lot easier and meaningful in physical practice. Also things get crazier in distorted spacetime
|
|
#
?
Sep 16, 2020 21:48
|
|
|
Hodgepodge posted:there's no way to establish a convention for synchronization of clocks at two separate points, huh isn't this how GPS (and a lot of other stuff) works
|
|
#
?
Sep 16, 2020 21:48
|
|
|
indigi posted:huh To describe how GPS works would take a very long time and a lot of math. But it's pretty easy conceptually: satellites send a signal with it's internal time clock. The receiver receives the signal from multiple satellites. The difference in clock times between pulses/sources allows triangulation in three dimensional space. The clocks on satellites experience different time, due to the speed of satellites and the distance from the gravity well, both of which impact the proper time of satellites in comparison to the receiver. To account for this discrepancy, GPS satellites' clocks are set to run at a different speed. Synchronisation (like accounting for leap seconds) is performed at intervals, by people on the ground doing the math and knowing what to set the clocks to when the signal is received.
|
|
#
?
Sep 16, 2020 21:53
|
|
|
Shame Boy posted:Yeah that's why it's called relativity Sounds pretty farfetched.
|
|
#
?
Sep 16, 2020 22:16
|
|
|
indigi posted:huh as i understand it, this is fine for practical applications and is based on the math for the various relativistic effects the problem is more one of the precision needed to accurately measure a universal constant, so the clocks being under the same effects don't matter so much, and they can be almost arbitrarily close to each other without eliminating the problem. it seems a method has been devised, and i was aware that there were workarounds but also maybe gave more weight to various quibbles the article presented with them. either that also applied, or the light pulses method was just newer than the information i read.
|
|
#
?
Sep 16, 2020 22:32
|
|
|
Biplane posted:Sounds pretty farfetched. it turns out it lets us make a weapon that makes things go boom more than any other we have
|
|
#
?
Sep 16, 2020 22:33
|
|
|
I got a conceptual question. I get that gravity is caused by warped time, gravity pulls in the direction of slower time. But time can also be slowed by relative motion and acceleration. Is this a different effect or is this 'gravity' as well. Seems weird enough that gravity is just a force because time moves slower in some places but I guess it has to be consistent right? Like astronauts on the ISS are further away from Earth's gravity well than the surface, so time goes a little faster, but they're also moving relatively faster than the surface, so time goes a little slower. So the overall warping of spacetime is a little balanced (not perfectly, I know)? or it's warped spacetime + reference frame to get total time elapsed and they're separate things fundamentally
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2020 02:35
|
|
|
learning that hyperbolic discounting functions are being used for global warming policy recommendations was a major, serious moment of clarity and horror for me
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2020 03:11
|
|
|
Antonymous posted:I got a conceptual question. There's a questions about physics thread that would probably be a better fit for this: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3781321 Just as a teaser to scroodle your noodle though: Gravity and acceleration are indistinguishable from each other per the equivalence principle
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2020 03:36
|
|
|
There are lots of great sci fi stories about relativistic travel and the implications thereof! Ken Liu has a pretty good one called "The Waves" which looks at the farther implications of the faster ship passing the first one in transit. And then Ursula K. Le Guin's Hainish setting (which is a huge cycle of interconnected short stories and novellas) is essentially about an advanced society for which the idea of someone travelling far away at relativistic speeds and leaving their loved ones behind has become more or less normal over thousands of years, and many other cool implications (e.g. what does this do to warfare when the attacker's recon and technology are d or d*2 years out of date). The Hainish stuff is some of the best anything of any type ever made by anyone and if this concept even slightly interests you you should probably read it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2020 03:39
|
|
|
Shame Boy posted:
But yes, for time dilation of a solitary body it can be construed as the same effect.
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2020 06:24
|
|
|
crosspost from the schadenfreude thread
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2020 07:32
|
|
|
CommonShore posted:There are lots of great sci fi stories about relativistic travel and the implications thereof! Ken Liu has a pretty good one called "The Waves" which looks at the farther implications of the faster ship passing the first one in transit. And then Ursula K. Le Guin's Hainish setting (which is a huge cycle of interconnected short stories and novellas) is essentially about an advanced society for which the idea of someone travelling far away at relativistic speeds and leaving their loved ones behind has become more or less normal over thousands of years, and many other cool implications (e.g. what does this do to warfare when the attacker's recon and technology are d or d*2 years out of date). The Hainish stuff is some of the best anything of any type ever made by anyone and if this concept even slightly interests you you should probably read it. The forever war is also about this.
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2020 07:40
|
|
|
Weatherman posted:crosspost from the schadenfreude thread gently caress
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2020 10:20
|
|
|
Shame Boy posted:There's a questions about physics thread that would probably be a better fit for this: Man i do have to feel sad about how worthless this knowledge is gonna be in 20 years when we're scouring the wastes for the last non-irradiated can of food
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2020 11:45
|
|
|
Weatherman posted:crosspost from the schadenfreude thread lol also reminder, don't put IoT poo poo in your home wtf 
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2020 13:21
|
|
|
i don't know if the capitalism thread is the right thread to bitch about work but i'm gonna do it anyway had a call with the boss today where i pointed out that the company has a deep-seated cultural resistance to change and that the most common reply to a change in process is "well i never had to do that before." and then a continuance of the process i want to replace. "yes, that's a very astute observation about the culture here, and you're spot on. that being said, if you feel a process is broken, go ahead and take the initiative to change it" ........ i don't...how?!
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2020 17:47
|
|
|
Marx Was A Lib posted:i don't know if the capitalism thread is the right thread to bitch about work but i'm gonna do it anyway Your boss sees you, your boss hears you.
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2020 17:50
|
|
|
Son of Thunderbeast posted:Your boss sees you, your boss hears you. i wouldn't even be stuck in this job if it weren't for the loving 'rona. i had a great gig at a university that was responsive and adaptable to criticism from internally. I got told today that "the more money a salesperson brings in, the more they're allowed to do whatever they want" and the aforementioned "go ahead and propose all the changes you want that will never get adopted" bit.
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2020 17:53
|
|
|
Marx Was A Lib posted:i wouldn't even be stuck in this job if it weren't for the loving 'rona. i had a great gig at a university that was responsive and adaptable to criticism from internally. I got told today that "the more money a salesperson brings in, the more they're allowed to do whatever they want" and the aforementioned "go ahead and propose all the changes you want that will never get adopted" bit. yeah that transition from academia can be rough
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2020 17:58
|
|
|
if my wife had medical through her employer, i would probably just...stop showing up to work and spend my time job searching instead
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2020 18:00
|
|
|
Marx Was A Lib posted:i don't know if the capitalism thread is the right thread to bitch about work but i'm gonna do it anyway Well go ahead and take the initiative to change the process then. Delete the old forms and spreadsheets and all the backups of them to make sure people do the new process. Say your boss told you it was ok.
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2020 18:14
|
|
|
Shame Boy posted:Well go ahead and take the initiative to change the process then. Delete the old forms and spreadsheets and all the backups of them to make sure people do the new process. Say your boss told you it was ok. ah, were I only so lucky as to have forms and sheets to delete. all of the processes are essentially tribal knowledge.
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2020 18:31
|
|
|
Marx Was A Lib posted:ah, were I only so lucky as to have forms and sheets to delete. all of the processes are essentially tribal knowledge. Even better! Start making forms and telling everyone that they're required now. If there's one change even bureaucratic inertia is helpless before, it is the introduction of busy work.
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2020 17:28
|
|
|
are you at all affiliated with manufacturing? if so just say “iso 9000 “ and shrug whenever anyone asks you about forms
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2020 17:33
|
|
|
i'm a specialist within change management ha ha ha because i manage to never make any changes to anything! ha ha h aaaaaaa
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2020 17:42
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2020 17:54
|
|
|
love the ones being paid twice. that is so baller
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2020 18:12
|
|
Associate Christ
|
other people posted:love the ones being paid twice. that is so baller So, all of them?
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2020 01:25
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 06:53 |
|
|
As covid numbers spike, Vancouver sells its one downtown hospital (and my birth place) to condo developers for $1 billion. https://twitter.com/urbanYVR/status/1307788182113615874?s=19
|
|
|
#
?
Sep 20, 2020 22:12
|
|
