Crusader Kings 3: apparently marrying commoners is 'uncool'

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Crusader Kings 3: apparently marrying commoners is 'uncool'

Jeza: Feb 13, 2011; The cries of the dead are terrible indeed; you should try not to hear them.

Gantolandon posted:

Obviously no one wants the devs to crunch insane hours to patch their game, but Paradox is no longer a small company and the standards of the market are already pretty lax. They don't need people to whiteknight for them.

Obviously a lot of issues will take some time to get ironed out, but there's still a lot of options between "work 24/7 to fix the game ASAP" and "complete radio silence 2 weeks after the release".

2 weeks is not a long time to wait. I would argue that standards for patching are completely the opposite - extremely high.

People want day one fixes, perpetual aftermarket care, free extra content and all of that to be delivered on a regular and transparent schedule.

Wasn't a million years ago that a game could drop half broken and never get patched at all lol.

# ? Sep 17, 2020 11:15

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# ? May 31, 2024 19:12

Azhais: Feb 5, 2007; Switchblade Switcharoo

And it's not like the game has crippling bugs, it has balance issues, and I wouldn't want them to rush out changes to mechanics without at least some thought on the manner

# ? Sep 17, 2020 11:32

Gantolandon: Aug 19, 2012

Jeza posted:

2 weeks is not a long time to wait. I would argue that standards for patching are completely the opposite - extremely high.

People want day one fixes, perpetual aftermarket care, free extra content and all of that to be delivered on a regular and transparent schedule.

Wasn't a million years ago that a game could drop half broken and never get patched at all lol.

Right now, you can release an early alpha (called Early Access) and get paid for the game. Hell, you can get paid for it even before you write a line of code, either through Kickstarter or just preorders. In case of Paradox, it's pretty much accepted their games will be broken on release and will eventually get better. This is only possible because of perpetual aftermarket care and arguably it's a pretty sweet deal for the developers.

Yes, you could have released a game half-broken in the days where patches were sporadic, but the backslash would be much more severe than it is today.

toasterwarrior posted:

Yeah no, we're ~~having~~ still having a global pandemic right now. As far as I'm concerned, getting anything done this year on time and with quality is a miracle in of itself; some moron with delusions about the ease of WFH can gently caress right off, and calling giving devs some leeway in one of the biggest ongoing disasters in human history whiteknighting is missing the forest for the trees if you legit want to champion the cause of consumer rights.

I'm a software dev working from home, so I'd rather not be lectured how difficult it is.

Edit: It's not even like I'm worried about the lack of patch right now, it's the complete lack of any info about it that annoys me. For all I know, a patch might drop today or in three months; the flow of updates ceased completely after the game was released.

Gantolandon fucked around with this message at 11:52 on Sep 17, 2020

# ? Sep 17, 2020 11:34

Hryme: Nov 4, 2009

Sweden might need a nerf. Just saying.They can field over 20000 troops in 1020 just from all their enclaves and beating on the british isles. Thats more than the Abbasids and Byzantium.

# ? Sep 17, 2020 11:59

CommunityEdition: May 1, 2009

Hryme posted:

Sweden might need a nerf. Just saying.They can field over 20000 troops in 1020 just from all their enclaves and beating on the british isles. Thats more than the Abbasids and Byzantium.

Presumably, this is part of the contract to make another Sabaton music dlc.

# ? Sep 17, 2020 12:04

Piell: Sep 3, 2006; Grey Worm's Ken doll-like groin throbbed with the anticipatory pleasure that only a slightly warm and moist piece of lemoncake could offer; Young Orc

MonikaTSarn posted:

I tried that Bohemia start somebody suggested, interesting. As a feudal lord already, how do you convert counties you conquer to feudal holdings ? The encylopedia says it should be possible to upgrade a feudal holding to a castle when religion and culture match mine, but I see no button to do it.

It's weirdly placed just floating right in the middle of the county screen, to the left of the supply limit info, looks like a chess rook.

Piell fucked around with this message at 12:32 on Sep 17, 2020

# ? Sep 17, 2020 12:28

Toplowtech: Aug 31, 2004

Azhais posted:

And it's not like the game has crippling bugs, it has balance issues, and I wouldn't want them to rush out changes to mechanics without at least some thought on the manner

The game hasn't be able to save an irongame save in like one week for me, kinda crippling as long as i want achievements but yeah, it's not the end of the world.

# ? Sep 17, 2020 15:02

feller: Jul 5, 2006

Toplowtech posted:

The game hasn't be able to save an irongame save in like one week for me, kinda crippling as long as i want achievements but yeah, it's not the end of the world.

Turn off cloud saves. That fixed it for me.

# ? Sep 17, 2020 15:32

FeculentWizardTits: Aug 31, 2001

How many generations will inherit implicit claims? My ruler cranked out a bunch of kids and I'd like to land them, but they all have implicit claims and I worry about the headaches it'll cause decades later if their kids and their kids' kids all have the same claims.

# ? Sep 17, 2020 15:40

Magil Zeal: Nov 24, 2008

I thought this was an interesting write-up on the economic mechanics of the game. The short version is that if the intent was to encourage fewer, stronger vassals, Paradox failed big time, because taxes suck compared to direct holdings, and king vassals especially suck. I mean, we already knew this from the NK method, but even aside from utterly breaking the game in that manner, you really don't want king vassals. You probably want dukes, and ideally those dukes should hold things directly (but this will likely break down over time due to partition).

Perhaps most interestingly however, lay clergy is terrible compared to theocratic clergy, because the realm priest will provide their ruler with up to 50% of their tax income and 100% of their levies, based on opinion (maxing at +50). In theory lay clergy lets you hold temple holdings directly, but optimally you'd want to hold only county capitals and have as many temples leased to your realm priest as possible. Plus, your realm priest collects taxes and levies from other, lower realm priests of the same faith in your realm (the priests that sit on the councils of your vassals), at a rate of 25% tax and 15% levy. Which they then provide to you at the 50%/100% rate. So yes, this also means the temporal head of faith is not very good, since it requires lay clergy. An exception might be made in the case of a temporal head of faith with the Communion tenet, which can be utterly broken in a large realm. Cities are not as good this time around, since they only provide 20% tax and 10% levies. Of course, cities do spread development, which is good for teching, but in terms of tax income and levies they are not as good as theocratic temples--for you, anyway.

Vassal limits appear to be very high this time around, so there's little reason to have high-level vassals outside of partition purposes. I kinda wish Paradox would make vassal contributions more meaningful and not so diluted. It hardly even seems worth it to wring more out of your vassals via the vassal contract system, they provide you with so little to begin with, and are not at all efficient about building up their holdings so they might provide you with something that could be called a pittance (only to divide and dilute them further via partition). This may be another reason why tribal feels more powerful, tribal vassals can actually provide you with up to 50% taxes and 100% levies at max level of fame, and they actually tend to build up their holdings since they primarily cost prestige and less money.

Magil Zeal fucked around with this message at 15:59 on Sep 17, 2020

# ? Sep 17, 2020 15:51

Dallan Invictus: Oct 11, 2007; The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes, look for them behind words that have changed their meaning.

Communist Walrus posted:

How many generations will inherit implicit claims? My ruler cranked out a bunch of kids and I'd like to land them, but they all have implicit claims and I worry about the headaches it'll cause decades later if their kids and their kids' kids all have the same claims.

Implicit claims turn into pressed claims when the relevant title holder dies, then the claimant's heir inherits them as unpressed, then (if not pressed) they vanish when the heir dies.

tl;dr: ruler's grandkids will have claims, after that you're fine.

# ? Sep 17, 2020 15:57

TGLT: Aug 14, 2009

So has anyone mentioned that you can get other cultural techs by settling enough people in the region? And the Norse longship tech stacks with the Slovianskan holy site in Rugen that reduces embarkation costs by 25%, so now my Polish army has completely free boats. It's great.

# ? Sep 17, 2020 16:12

Broken Cog: Dec 29, 2009; We're all friends here

Is it possible to play as the Hashashin?

# ? Sep 17, 2020 16:17

Magil Zeal: Nov 24, 2008

TGLT posted:

So has anyone mentioned that you can get other cultural techs by settling enough people in the region? And the Norse longship tech stacks with the Slovianskan holy site in Rugen that reduces embarkation costs by 25%, so now my Polish army has completely free boats. It's great.

You can get "regional" innovations by having a certain number of counties of your culture in that region, yeah. It's an interesting mechanic, though somewhat difficult to do.

# ? Sep 17, 2020 16:17

TGLT: Aug 14, 2009

Magil Zeal posted:

You can get "regional" innovations by having a certain number of counties of your culture in that region, yeah. It's an interesting mechanic, though somewhat difficult to do.

One of the high medieval Slavic techs makes the promote culture task go 15% faster, and with a good steward you can flip a county every 3 years. Honestly the only issue I've been having with it is I can't find how to actually view regions.

# ? Sep 17, 2020 16:21

hopeandjoy: Nov 28, 2014

I find that temples and cities get built up by the AI just fine. It's baronies that wont improve unless you personally pump gold into them.

# ? Sep 17, 2020 16:40

Magil Zeal: Nov 24, 2008

hopeandjoy posted:

I find that temples and cities get built up by the AI just fine. It's baronies that wont improve unless you personally pump gold into them.

Yeah, because generally the owners of temples and cities don't have anything better to spend money on. This is another reason why temple holdings under a realm priest are great, they'll actually upgrade them with some degree of consistency unlike normal vassals.

# ? Sep 17, 2020 16:43

Azhais: Feb 5, 2007; Switchblade Switcharoo

hopeandjoy posted:

I find that temples and cities get built up by the AI just fine. It's baronies that wont improve unless you personally pump gold into them.

Yeah, the baronies thing would be nice to see an early fix for. Late game sieges are a total joke since my stack of onagers takes out a level 1 castle in about a week.

# ? Sep 17, 2020 16:43

Toplowtech: Aug 31, 2004

yikes! posted:

Turn off cloud saves. That fixed it for me.

I did, the saves just turn invalid. So meh.

# ? Sep 17, 2020 16:43

feller: Jul 5, 2006

Toplowtech posted:

I did, the saves just turn invalid. So meh.

Oh that sucks. Sorry

# ? Sep 17, 2020 16:50

Communist Bear: Oct 7, 2008

Heh. This er...this won't last.

# ? Sep 17, 2020 16:55

Ice Fist: Jun 20, 2012; ^^ Please send feedback to beefstache911@hotmail.com, this is not a joke that 'stache is the real deal. Serious assessments only. ^^

So for a time I had the ability to demand conversion and imprison people who declined without a tyrant penalty because they "resisted conversion". That suddenly went away. Now if they decline the opposite is true. I get a tyrant penalty if I attempt to imprison them. What would have changed that made this happen?

# ? Sep 17, 2020 17:04

toasterwarrior: Nov 11, 2011

The Haesteinn start is great because you can transition from Norse to Norman eventually, and what that means is you can start with Longships for faster naval fuckery, grab Huscarls in the next era for Heavy Infantry that gets bonuses in forests and counters Archers plus better stats, then switch culture to Norman to straight up skip a century or so of technological progress because Norman's are in the French cultural group and they're way ahead of you. You can also get better Heavy Cavalry if you're into that.

As a bonus, you're the only Norman around so you'll always be able to pick your preferred tech target.

# ? Sep 17, 2020 17:16

Magil Zeal: Nov 24, 2008

Ice Fist posted:

So for a time I had the ability to demand conversion and imprison people who declined without a tyrant penalty because they "resisted conversion". That suddenly went away. Now if they decline the opposite is true. I get a tyrant penalty if I attempt to imprison them. What would have changed that made this happen?

I can't find anything in the wiki specifically about resisting conversion being a crime. What it does say is that if your faith has the Righteous doctrine, you can freely revoke titles from faiths you consider evil, and while the Fundamentalist doctrine only requires you consider them hostile. But a ruler following a righteous faith would not be able to freely revoke titles from faiths you consider hostile.

# ? Sep 17, 2020 17:22

Omnicarus: Jan 16, 2006

After playing a few longer games, I think I would like to see a few changes, in addition to the ones that have already been voiced in the thread many times.

- I think the martial lifestyles in general need buffing, but the Overseer branch in particular is weak. A Perk that makes you not get an offensive war penalty would be nice here, as would an ability to execute vassals with half penalty to tyanny or just declare a vassal a criminal with a hook. Also absolute control appears to be buggy and not always appear.

- Chivalry's marriage bonus should be entirely done away with, it's nearly useless. Replace it with something like squires that makes men at arms cost less.

- The scholar culture perk that ignores other cultures penalty should also give a bonus to the culture conversion task. Right now there is no way to boost culture conversion speed.

- More insight into how a child's education is going would be nice. Heck, a progress meter on your wards where they get the rank based on their quartile to 100% would be great. It's a bit bizarre that my genius ward just randomly gets a bad education despite all the events going well.

# ? Sep 17, 2020 17:27

Excelzior: Jun 24, 2013

Omnicarus posted:

- More insight into how a child's education is going would be nice. Heck, a progress meter on your wards where they get the rank based on their quartile to 100% would be great. It's a bit bizarre that my genius ward just randomly gets a bad education despite all the events going well.

That will be difficult to square with when Universities just make your kid get a massive education bonus right when they come of age and the trait level is determined

# ? Sep 17, 2020 17:33

Mantis42: Jul 26, 2010

Normy posted:

I caught my wife and son having an affair and was given the option to join in love this game

Crusader Kings 3: The Family That Lays Together, Stays Together

# ? Sep 17, 2020 17:34

CharlieFoxtrot: Mar 27, 2007; organize digital employees

Magil Zeal posted:

I thought this was an interesting write-up on the economic mechanics of the game. The short version is that if the intent was to encourage fewer, stronger vassals, Paradox failed big time, because taxes suck compared to direct holdings, and king vassals especially suck. I mean, we already knew this from the NK method, but even aside from utterly breaking the game in that manner, you really don't want king vassals. You probably want dukes, and ideally those dukes should hold things directly (but this will likely break down over time due to partition).

Perhaps most interestingly however, lay clergy is terrible compared to theocratic clergy, because the realm priest will provide their ruler with up to 50% of their tax income and 100% of their levies, based on opinion (maxing at +50). In theory lay clergy lets you hold temple holdings directly, but optimally you'd want to hold only county capitals and have as many temples leased to your realm priest as possible. Plus, your realm priest collects taxes and levies from other, lower realm priests of the same faith in your realm (the priests that sit on the councils of your vassals), at a rate of 25% tax and 15% levy. Which they then provide to you at the 50%/100% rate. So yes, this also means the temporal head of faith is not very good, since it requires lay clergy. An exception might be made in the case of a temporal head of faith with the Communion tenet, which can be utterly broken in a large realm. Cities are not as good this time around, since they only provide 20% tax and 10% levies. Of course, cities do spread development, which is good for teching, but in terms of tax income and levies they are not as good as theocratic temples--for you, anyway.

Vassal limits appear to be very high this time around, so there's little reason to have high-level vassals outside of partition purposes. I kinda wish Paradox would make vassal contributions more meaningful and not so diluted. It hardly even seems worth it to wring more out of your vassals via the vassal contract system, they provide you with so little to begin with, and are not at all efficient about building up their holdings so they might provide you with something that could be called a pittance (only to divide and dilute them further via partition). This may be another reason why tribal feels more powerful, tribal vassals can actually provide you with up to 50% taxes and 100% levies at max level of fame, and they actually tend to build up their holdings since they primarily cost prestige and less money.

This sounds about right. My income has basically tripled from revoking a few kingdom titles. After learning that title succession supersedes realm succession law I am also planning to game the inheritance of these titles as well while still under partition lol

# ? Sep 17, 2020 17:35

Broken Cog: Dec 29, 2009; We're all friends here

I disagree that the chivalry marriage perk is useless, it can let you get a lot of betrothals to 2nd and 3rd in line without having to do intrigue stuff. I often see "They will accept, +15" and stuff like that that they wouldn't have accepted without it.
I'd more argue that the romance/elope buffs are useless, but at least you can steal people's wives with it.

# ? Sep 17, 2020 17:37

FreudianSlippers: Apr 12, 2010; Shooting and Fucking
are the same thing!

Gobblecoque posted:

When you declare an invasion be sure to check what title the objective is. It doesn't default to the target's primary title like you would probably assume. Hell, it doesn't even require that the target title actually be held by your enemy or even exist. What probably happened is you declared war with the objective of invading a kingdom title that your enemy only held a tiny amount of land in.

Yeah the Magyar Invasion of Pannonia is a specific historical invasion available only to them that gives you a shitload of free troops but back in CK2 even invasions like that allowed you to keep any land you occupied regardless of whether it was part of the target kingdom. Which made taking over the entire kingdom of Bulgaria as the Magyars trivial. In this game you only get the de jure lands you're invading for which is a bit more balanced.

# ? Sep 17, 2020 17:45

CharlieFoxtrot: Mar 27, 2007; organize digital employees

It does feel a bit harder to "read" the story of my empire's internal politics when instead of a handful of kings and dukes, every time there's a faction there's like 12 different dukes and counts with 3% contribution lol

# ? Sep 17, 2020 17:49

dublish: Oct 31, 2011

TGLT posted:

One of the high medieval Slavic techs makes the promote culture task go 15% faster, and with a good steward you can flip a county every 3 years. Honestly the only issue I've been having with it is I can't find how to actually view regions.

That would be because the 'regions' are custom defined for a number of different mechanics and are not always mutually exclusive, so they're buried in the game files with no way to easily see them. There are Mongol Conquest regions, Great Holy War Target regions, Roman province regions, regions for elephants and camels...

The Ostsiedlung tech defines Eastern Germany as the duchies of Pommerania, Nordmark, Pomerelia, Ostmark, Anhalt, Angria, Westfalen, Ostfalen, Meissen, Lausitz, Holstein, Thuringia, Bohemia, and Moravia.

# ? Sep 17, 2020 17:49

The Cheshire Cat: Jun 10, 2008; Fun Shoe

Excelzior posted:

That will be difficult to square with when Universities just make your kid get a massive education bonus right when they come of age and the trait level is determined

How does the "university" bonus get determined anyway? Do you need to have one in your personal holdings or just in your realm?

# ? Sep 17, 2020 17:51

Operant: Apr 1, 2010; LET THERE BE NO GENESIS

Dread is insanely busted. The only mechanical downside of building up dread is you have to spend faith or gain stress, one of these things can be mitigated with a super early perk in the intrigue tree, the other by just having the right traits.

The plus side is now you get to ignore opinion from 99% of characters forever and completely ignore the faction game which seems a little too good personally. Executing people giving you an opinion penalty does not matter when the same characters are going to immediately be terrified of you. Personally I think there should be some diminishing returns on it or the base boldness stat of characters should be increased a lot, there's characters that are already frightened of you at 0 dread which seems a little silly.

If you go a few perks up the dread tree to get the -1000% dread decay and no faith for executions perk you can actually do whatever you like for the most part.

EDIT: Like all paradox games this game completely falls apart at the Empire level and above in the late game lol

# ? Sep 17, 2020 17:54

Traxis: Jul 2, 2006

I had a character in my current game that was temperate, honest and content, which all happen to be virtues for Vaishnavism. I had 57 learning and was making about 20 piety per month with Theology focus. You can expand ridiculously fast when you can buy claims on duchys every ~25 months.

e: Yeah, dread is ridiculous. I keep a pool of heathen prisoners on hand and hold mass executions after successions and I never have issues with rebellious vassals.

# ? Sep 17, 2020 17:57

Synnr: Dec 30, 2009

Well, the combination of just and shy is just loving awful. You can't do any god-damned thing without getting stress, or more stress. I guess I should be glad this heir I got stuck with is a drunkard as well so he gets some stress relief.

And at least my 25intrigue spymaster is my soulmate. She is strong and cruel and my loyal protector.

Anywho, does anyone know what the deal is with the sayyid trait? I used to use captured carriers in ck2 as concubines to breed it into my line, but it doesn't seem to be the same in ck3. Is it a house abassid only thing?

# ? Sep 17, 2020 17:58

Ice Fist: Jun 20, 2012; ^^ Please send feedback to beefstache911@hotmail.com, this is not a joke that 'stache is the real deal. Serious assessments only. ^^

Magil Zeal posted:

I can't find anything in the wiki specifically about resisting conversion being a crime. What it does say is that if your faith has the Righteous doctrine, you can freely revoke titles from faiths you consider evil, and while the Fundamentalist doctrine only requires you consider them hostile. But a ruler following a righteous faith would not be able to freely revoke titles from faiths you consider hostile.

Yeah I'm now sure about this either. I know for sure that I had a ruler who was able to imprison people who decided they didn't want to convert when asked. I don't want to revoke their titles, just throw them in jail and then force their conversion as a condition of their release. I'd do something else if they still refuse, but that's almost never an issue.

# ? Sep 17, 2020 18:06

The Cheshire Cat: Jun 10, 2008; Fun Shoe

Operant posted:

Dread is insanely busted. The only mechanical downside of building up dread is you have to spend faith or gain stress, one of these things can be mitigated with a super early perk in the intrigue tree, the other by just having the right traits.

The plus side is now you get to ignore opinion from 99% of characters forever and completely ignore the faction game which seems a little too good personally. Executing people giving you an opinion penalty does not matter when the same characters are going to immediately be terrified of you. Personally I think there should be some diminishing returns on it or the base boldness stat of characters should be increased a lot, there's characters that are already frightened of you at 0 dread which seems a little silly.

If you go a few perks up the dread tree to get the -1000% dread decay and no faith for executions perk you can actually do whatever you like for the most part.

EDIT: Like all paradox games this game completely falls apart at the Empire level and above in the late game lol

It does seem like a good counterbalance for dread would be to make intimidated/terrified vassals more likely to join plots against you (instead of less likely, like it is now). It has a bit of a "too good at too many things" problem, there's no real tradeoff.

# ? Sep 17, 2020 18:06

Hargrimm: Sep 22, 2011; W A R R E N

The Cheshire Cat posted:

How does the "university" bonus get determined anyway? Do you need to have one in your personal holdings or just in your realm?

The check is:

code:

#University?
if = {
	limit = {
		scope:ward.host = {
			any_realm_province = {
				has_university_building_trigger = yes
			}
		}
	}
	scope:ward = {
		add_character_flag = {
			flag = studying_at_university
			years = 11
		}
	}
}

So if "any_realm_province" does what it sounds like, it should be anywhere within the realm of the assigned guardian. Notably though, the flag is only good for 11 years, so if you assign the guardian before the kid is 5, it will wear off before it would trigger when they turn 16...

# ? Sep 17, 2020 18:06

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# ? May 31, 2024 19:12

Broken Cog: Dec 29, 2009; We're all friends here

Dread should have some sort of effect on public opinion, right now it's fairly easy to be both feared and loved.

Hargrimm posted:

The check is:

So if "any_realm_province" does what it sounds like, it should be anywhere within the realm of the assigned guardian. Notably though, the flag is only good for 11 years, so if you assign the guardian before the kid is 5, it will wear off before it would trigger when they turn 16...

Can you even assign guardians before they are 6?

# ? Sep 17, 2020 18:09

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