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Damnation Alley is good Zelazny, but not really fantasy. To Die in Italbar is also great.
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Sep 19, 2020 18:09
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I'd second Lord of Light, probably my favorite, plus the Amber books. I also liked Jack of Shadows a lot.
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Sep 19, 2020 18:20
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:he was right about how lame arthurian legend is, at least. Made for a fun RPG.
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Sep 19, 2020 18:56
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there wolf posted:We're a little past it, but I liked Kingkiller Chronicles, and when people talk about what a perfect Mary Sue Kvothe is it always sounds like when people say Nabakov is total pedo for what Humbert Humbert is thinking. (a little loaded, but it's the most popular example of an unreliable narrator.) The setup is the story of a legendary figure, being collected by someone inherent skeptical of everything attributed to the hero and I think book one does a good job of balancing that, but then two kind of falls apart. Like the story about being a shy virgin until he gets picked up by a sex fairy that he then has to trick is classic tall-tale garbage, but then it gets tied to a real need to acquire something from the fairy realm so you can't just dismiss the entire event as horseshit. The problem is that Rothfuss isn't competent enough to write an unreliable narrator and that it all comes off as "and then Kvothe was right again and everyone who disagreed with him did so for personal and selfish reasons." One reason I suffered through the second book was because I was naively expecting SOMETHING to come of it, but nothing ever challenges Kvothe and every obstacle is easily overcome on the spot.
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Sep 19, 2020 19:31
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Shageletic posted:Has the most metal ending in all of fantasy Stormbringer turns out to be Satan
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Sep 19, 2020 20:12
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The Breakfast Sampler posted:I'd second Lord of Light, probably my favorite, plus the Amber books. I also liked Jack of Shadows a lot. I'm also fond of Jack of Shadows - it's one of his books I rarely see mentioned. I've read pretty much everything Zelazny wrote, at least in SciFi/Fantasy. I'd have to pull up a list to sort out my favorites from ones I am more meh about and haven't read multiple times.
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Sep 20, 2020 00:12
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Galewolf posted:I know this is Bad Fantasy thread but hear me out on this one: he has basically written the plot and characters for one book, and then copied them into a few different series they're trashy but entertaining i think that i've read all of them except the arthurian one, the napoleonic one was my favourite
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Sep 20, 2020 00:20
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It kind of sounds like Rothfuss needed to not plan to write a trilogy, and should have just written a single tighter plotted book about a shithead wizard and his conveniently cool retellings of stumbling rear end-first into problems.
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Sep 20, 2020 01:34
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yeah so i can't find anything by moorcock or zelazny that i remember reading. guess i've got my next few weeks planned out.
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Sep 20, 2020 02:27
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friggin' zelazny! my teenage self has to turn in his bibliophile nerd card.
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Sep 20, 2020 02:29
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PetraCore posted:It kind of sounds like Rothfuss needed to not plan to write a trilogy, and should have just written a single tighter plotted book about a shithead wizard and his conveniently cool retellings of stumbling rear end-first into problems. yeah, and the wheel of time could have been good if it had been at most the length of the lotr maybe it could have been possible if he had had a good editor instead of just his wife
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Sep 20, 2020 15:34
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darkwasthenight posted:The Doors of His Face, The Lamps of His Mouth is solid sci-fi Zelazny. This book was my first exposure to Zelazny's work, though it's thanks to his endorsements on Brust's novels that I heard of him in the first place. So, this leads to a question of mine own: any positive reads from Tad Williams? I heard of him the same way but hadn't read anything of his.
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Sep 20, 2020 16:09
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Bell_ posted:So, this leads to a question of mine own: any positive reads from Tad Williams? I heard of him the same way but hadn't read anything of his. poisonpill posted:Actually good fantasy: *taps the list* And yes, guilty as charged not reading Earthsea. I’ve read Left Hand of Darkness, which was pretty wild.
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Sep 20, 2020 16:14
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The only Tad Williams books I really like are the Otherland books. They're a bit closer to Science Fiction than Fantasy from the setting. His other books... eh... Some people already mentioned Memory, Sorrow and Thorn, which is okay, but can be a bit long-winded. The characters did leave enough of an impression on me that I still remembered most of them when the sequel series The Last King of Osten Ard came out, so that's something. Unfortunately, every main character who survived the original series apparently went on to have the shittiest life imaginable, and the new main characters are definitely worse. Shadowmarch is kind of... there I guess? It's not terrible, but not good either. I'm trying to remember what happened, actually. There's a standalone book about fairies which is kind of interesting, but also the main character's love interest is a hundred year old sexy schoolgirl and this is mentioned often enough to start to feel creepy. Which brings me to the Bobby Dollar series, where the main character's love interest is a several hundred year old sexy schoolgirl and it is constantly described with a disturbing amount of detail what sexy outfit she is wearing and how much hot sex the characters are having. At least until she gets kidnapped by demons and the main character has to narrate himself through all the circles of hell in a long-winded fashion that would make Dante Alighieri suggest some level of restraint.
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Sep 20, 2020 16:29
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ChubbyChecker posted:yeah, and the wheel of time could have been good if it had been at most the length of the lotr I think just chopping the length in half would have helped immensely. A lot of the early books while not masterpieces were still pretty fun. IIRC it was the 6+ books where it felt like nothing of consequence happened for a thousand pages. Plus when you're a nerdy teen with a ton of free time who likes escapist fantasy books sometimes you just want to spend more time in that cool fantasy world, so length can be a good thing if it's well written.
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Sep 20, 2020 16:58
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The thing I'll never understand about Wheel of Time is how can someone write so much boring poo poo. If reading it is an extended waste of time writing nothing is far far worse. When I write stories I like writing things happening.
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Sep 20, 2020 17:07
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PetraCore posted:It kind of sounds like Rothfuss needed to not plan to write a trilogy, and should have just written a single tighter plotted book about a shithead wizard and his conveniently cool retellings of stumbling rear end-first into problems. Or go in the opposite direction and make it a continuing series of stumbling rear end-first into problems. Those Apropos of Nothing books are o.k., and while Lies of Locke Lamora dropped off as it went along, the first one is still a really solid book and the later ones are still fun even if they're messes.
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Sep 20, 2020 18:41
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there wolf posted:... while Lies of Locke Lamora dropped off as it went along, the first one is still a really solid book and the later ones are still fun even if they're messes. Lmao I just looked these up online and the first hit was someone complaining that the release date for the fourth book has been pushed back for seven years (with none on the horizon) and the top comment on Reddit is someone who bought the three first editions signed from him and then he just stopped responding. Modern fantasy writers are lazy ingrates
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Sep 20, 2020 19:11
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poisonpill posted:Lmao I just looked these up online and the first hit was someone complaining that the release date for the fourth book has been pushed back for seven years (with none on the horizon) and the top comment on Reddit is someone who bought the three first editions signed from him and then he just stopped responding. Ehhh, IIRC Scott Lynch has health issues that have caused the delays. He's not like GRRM and Rothfuss who are running around playing at being a respected author without actually writing anything.
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Sep 20, 2020 19:24
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PetraCore posted:It kind of sounds like Rothfuss needed to not plan to write a trilogy, and should have just written a single tighter plotted book about a shithead wizard and his conveniently cool retellings of stumbling rear end-first into problems. It’s no secret that unpublished genre authors are often strong armed into three book contracts for their first publishing deal, and I’ve often wondered if that’s what happened with Rothfuss. No idea if that’s the case though.
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Sep 20, 2020 19:46
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muscles like this! posted:Ehhh, IIRC Scott Lynch has health issues that have caused the delays. He's not like GRRM and Rothfuss who are running around playing at being a respected author without actually writing anything. Aw, that sucks. I take it back.
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Sep 20, 2020 21:06
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muscles like this! posted:Ehhh, IIRC Scott Lynch has health issues that have caused the delays. He's not like GRRM and Rothfuss who are running around playing at being a respected author without actually writing anything. I vaguely recall hearing he was struggling with depression or something similar. I enjoyed all 3 of the Locke Lamora books so if he puts out another I'd read it.
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Sep 20, 2020 22:09
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Flared Basic Bitch posted:It’s no secret that unpublished genre authors are often strong armed into three book contracts for their first publishing deal, and I’ve often wondered if that’s what happened with Rothfuss. No idea if that’s the case though. Didn't he say he had all three books written when the first came out?
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Sep 20, 2020 22:48
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Groovelord Neato posted:Didn't he say he had all three books written when the first came out? I have no idea. I would think that if that were the case then we’d actually have all three books by now. This is a valid argument because all prominent fantasy authors are honor bound to honestly report the status of all novels in progress.
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Sep 20, 2020 23:39
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muscles like this! posted:Ehhh, IIRC Scott Lynch has health issues that have caused the delays. He's not like GRRM and Rothfuss who are running around playing at being a respected author without actually writing anything. I mean, to be fair, GRRM has written and published other things since A Dance With Dragons. Just not the next book in that particular series.
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Sep 21, 2020 02:55
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I just finished the first Hyperion (sorry if this was discussed already) and really liked it. Are the rest of them also worth reading?
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Sep 21, 2020 03:50
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Groovelord Neato posted:Didn't he say he had all three books written when the first came out? I just really dislike fantasy bloat and wish it were more popular for things to be standalone or shorter series because nothing is ever made more readable by padding.
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Sep 21, 2020 03:52
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CaptainSarcastic posted:I'm also fond of Jack of Shadows - it's one of his books I rarely see mentioned. Jack of Shadows is fantastic
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Sep 21, 2020 04:01
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PetraCore posted:I just really dislike fantasy bloat and wish it were more popular for things to be standalone or shorter series because nothing is ever made more readable by padding.
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Sep 21, 2020 04:09
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Miss posted:Jack of Shadows is fantastic "My Name Is Legion" is evergreen at this point
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Sep 21, 2020 04:17
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Black August posted:Any experience or practical advice on the reality of the situation is valuable to me. I know the scene is decaying and changing year to year. So I should save my aces for publication, my trash for Kindle, and my smaller stuff for Amazon. Sounds like I got a lot of pen names to lock down. I really liked his collection called Robots Have No Tails. It's about an inventor who could only invent while drunk, and would wake up trying to figure out what the hell he had made. It was really fun, but has warts/shows its age at times. (I think there was some l sexism stuff that was actually light for the period, but that's the worst I remember.) Speaking of bad stuff: Piers Anthony has exactly 1(one) series that isn't creepy from memory. It's about a space dentist, and there's no "romance" (aka being a creep) just fun weird stuff about a human dentist uprooted from earth doing his thing in space and helping aliens.
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Sep 21, 2020 04:52
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PetraCore posted:It kind of sounds like Rothfuss needed to not plan to write a trilogy, and should have just written a single tighter plotted book about a shithead wizard and his conveniently cool retellings of stumbling rear end-first into problems. Everything has to be a goddamned trilogy to get published tho. LOTR was a trilogy and people just love that word. Trilogy. Look how many clubs, resorts and poo poo are named 'Trilogy.' Things that reduce my willingness to read a novel: Is part of a trilogy Has more than 600 pages Has a title in any way inspired by whatever book is currently in the pop culture spotlight Jacket copy deacribes it in a way that makes it seem like whatever book is currently in the pop culture spotlight
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Sep 21, 2020 06:24
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VideoTapir posted:Everything has to be a goddamned trilogy to get published tho. LOTR was a trilogy and people just love that word. Trilogy. Look how many clubs, resorts and poo poo are named 'Trilogy.' You're more forgiving than I am. I seriously question length at 350 pages, if not sooner. It was actually thanks to reading Zelazny that I discovered Ambrose Bierce, who was one of the authors he cited as influences. Bierce was awesome at being able to convey a lot in a story without resorting to a massive wordcount to do it. "Ambrose Bierce in [i posted:The Devil's Dictionary[/i]"]NOVEL, n. A short story padded. A species of composition bearing the same relation to literature that the panorama bears to art. As it is too long to be read at a sitting the impressions made by its successive parts are successively effaced, as in the panorama. Unity, totality of effect, is impossible; for besides the few pages last read all that is carried in mind is the mere plot of what has gone before. To the romance the novel is what photography is to painting. Its distinguishing principle, probability, corresponds to the literal actuality of the photograph and puts it distinctly into the category of reporting; whereas the free wing of the romancer enables him to mount to such altitudes of imagination as he may be fitted to attain; and the first three essentials of the literary art are imagination, imagination and imagination. The art of writing novels, such as it was, is long dead everywhere except in Russia, where it is new. Peace to its ashes — some of which have a large sale.
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Sep 21, 2020 07:18
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MNIMWA posted:I just finished the first Hyperion (sorry if this was discussed already) and really liked it. Are the rest of them also worth reading? Really wanted it to be as good as Hyperion, but the characters going on in the story weren't as interesting as the form of the first book, with all the different genres flying around. Maybe that's just me...
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Sep 21, 2020 09:43
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MNIMWA posted:I just finished the first Hyperion (sorry if this was discussed already) and really liked it. Are the rest of them also worth reading? The entire cantos is worth reading IMO. Real shame about Dan Simmons, he was a pretty good writer whose brain got irrevocably broken by 9/11 and he just started churning out weirdly xeno- and islamophobic bullshit later on. I don't know if he's still on that kool aid, but it wasn't a good sight.
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Sep 21, 2020 12:41
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Each subsequent Hyperion is less good and by the end it feels like your reading a racist uncles screed.
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Sep 21, 2020 13:03
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Drood was written post 9-11 and is pretty good up until the very end where everything just completely falls apart. The book is a fictionalized account of the last years of Charles Dickens' life told through the lens of fellow author Wilkie Collins. Dickens sees some weird stuff after a train he was riding derails which leads him (along with Collins) to start looking into the event. Eventually Dickens discovers a secret society and a bunch of other stuff happens. Then something like 20 pages from the end Dickens reveals to Collins that it was all made up and everything that happened was Dickens hiring actors and hypnotizing Collins. It is such a bizarre ending that makes no sense at all.
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Sep 21, 2020 13:14
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MNIMWA posted:I just finished the first Hyperion (sorry if this was discussed already) and really liked it. Are the rest of them also worth reading? Ehh... The great thing about Hyperion is that it's essentially the Canterbury Tales in a genre setting. The follow-ups are just... not. If you like high concept sci-fi space opera with some metaphysical "the main character is just special" BS and the author having a circle jerk with classic authors and artists. They're not overly embarrassing, but don't expect the same level as the first book.
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Sep 21, 2020 14:05
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PetraCore posted:See, the thing is part of the badwill from where I'm standing is the whole 'tired of unfinished fantasy series? HAVE ONE FINISHED FOR SURE!' and that's lovely af but with the context of 'first book fun, second book a slog, third book mysteriously disappeared into the aether' sounds like a lie his publisher had to have been entirely aware of. In that case, doesn't some of the blame also fall to the publisher, and to the trend of locking in things as a three book series when maybe the author only has the ideas for one good book with that premise? yeah same
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Sep 21, 2020 14:36
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DicktheCat posted:Don't gently caress yourself into unfindability like Henry Kutner. Classic scifi, but used pen names like crazy, some even feminine. For a long time, it was hard to track down a comprehensive bibliography! (Of course, if you're writing fetish porn to get by, maybe that's the point) I won't. I'd have three pen names at most. One for the slush/trash, one to sell books to publishers, and a final one for my personal stuff I don't WANT to take through a publisher. While publishing a book would be great, I don't care to fall into a trap of a publisher telling me what to write or how many books it needs. Being edited is one thing I'm good with, but having some mono-entity demand 3 books for a 1 book idea is not something I'm going to put up with.
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Sep 21, 2020 14:43
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