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in light of theory of relativity i move that materialism be renamed to energyism
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Sep 20, 2020 20:34
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| # ? May 26, 2024 15:42 |
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Jon Joe posted:Everything is made of matter. matter is made of energy whatever the gently caress energy is, it has no issue behaving like matter one moment and just turning into movement of matter in timespace the next gratz on taking the position decartes got owned by newton on though
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Sep 20, 2020 20:44
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My penis is a monad and you can't stop me
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Sep 20, 2020 20:45
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Why is veganism always labelled as a liberal distraction in leftist circles? If humanity is to have any chance of surviving the next century, we have to cut down meat consumption, yet the vitriol towards vegans and animal rights activists is insane.
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Sep 20, 2020 20:58
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ToxicAcne posted:Why is veganism always labelled as a liberal distraction in leftist circles? If humanity is to have any chance of surviving the next century, we have to cut down meat consumption, yet the vitriol towards vegans and animal rights activists is insane. It's because the most vocal subset of vegans most people have the misfortune of interacting with are predominantly petit bourgeois liberals who uphold a lifestyle choice without being cognizant of the exploitation of labor necessary to make it possible. Veganism is a moral choice only when capitalism has vanished from this earth.
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Sep 20, 2020 21:21
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i'd like to see this vitriol. wouldn't surprise me and there's a lot of toxic behavior on the left. but most people in the world who have access to meat eat it, so moral arguments probably won't get you very far, although i don't think it's sustainable for americans to eat meat three times a day like they do. if we can make artificial meat substitutes that are also cheaper than animal flesh then that could help get people off it
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Sep 20, 2020 21:30
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Still hope to see mass produced vat meat personally I hope they make salmon sashimi flavor
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Sep 20, 2020 21:50
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ToxicAcne posted:Why is veganism always labelled as a liberal distraction in leftist circles? If humanity is to have any chance of surviving the next century, we have to cut down meat consumption, yet the vitriol towards vegans and animal rights activists is insane. there's two big problems with veganism 1) countering the idea that veganism is going to bring us closer to a climate neutral world -> consumption patterns in the long run do not really change the global emissions. 100 fossil fuel companies and their investors are responsible for half of the CO˛ emissions since the industrial revolution and 71% of current emissions. if veganism would change production on a global scale, we would see a decrease in meat production with a decrease in meat consumption. however, the statistics we have of european countries with a large food industry shows production has grown despite the decrease in national meat consumption because of higher exports 2) veganism does not solve any crisis in capitalism, and like consumer organisations just promote the idea of a pure and ethical consumption that doesn't exist. vegan products need as much packaging, as much exploitation of labor and the same scale of production as non-vegan products in capitalism. the production processes of vegan products aren't gonna be magically socialist of course, apart from hardline anti-vegans i don't think anyone is saying we don't need to lower meat consumption, if only for health reasons
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Sep 20, 2020 21:55
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3 posted:It's because the most vocal subset of vegans most people have the misfortune of interacting with are predominantly petit bourgeois liberals who uphold a lifestyle choice without being cognizant of the exploitation of labor necessary to make it possible. Veganism is a moral choice only when capitalism has vanished from this earth. I disagree about the last statement - veganism is a moral choice now. It's just not a sufficient choice, same as every other choice any one person can make.
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Sep 20, 2020 22:21
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PERPETUAL IDIOT posted:I disagree about the last statement - veganism is a moral choice now. It's just not a sufficient choice, same as every other choice any one person can make. You're correct, I could've phrased that better. Regardless, I have no disdain towards people who practice veganism as an ethical choice, I think any attempt to reduce the amount of cruelty and suffering that animals experience is admirable to an extent. But I have nothing but disdain for those who advocate it as a meaningful way to achieve lasting change while ignoring the systemic reasons behind why our societal consumption habits are absolutely nightmarish to begin with.
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Sep 20, 2020 22:32
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Being a vegan is fine and dandy, on paper. Its not a one size fits all diet though and you need to stay ontop of your micro and macronutrients. If you want to do it, fine. Veganism as a movement a typical liberal non-solution to any material question you might have i.e. We need to reduce methane/food carbon emissions. That all the vegans I know will lecture you on meat production in between railing lines of coke is an irony lost on them.
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Sep 20, 2020 23:04
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My wife went full vegan for a year and I've always been pretty vegetable forward so it was easy enough to follow her. We don't keep animal products in the fridge for the most part but have both gone more of a flexitarian route for takeout. She tracked her macros to an insane degree before she was a vegan and was also pregnant and did the vegan thing for that entire time with no problems whatsoever, consulting with a doctor but seeing no problems since, again, she stays on top of that. The amount of times I have been lectured by people about how she was killing the baby or asked in worried tones if she's healthy drove me insane and I began instantly cutting people off when they would ask me about it with a curt "we're talking to a doctor, it's fine." Conclusion: you can be an annoying preachy rear end in a top hat whatever your personal consumption habits. I will wholeheartedly agree that veganism won't save poo poo but I do feel pretty healthy and my poops are good. edit: also are the vegans you know sharing the cocaine or are you just staring at them with cocaine-desiring puppy dog eyes while they do rail after rail in front of you.
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Sep 20, 2020 23:13
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Oh they are hugely generous cokeheads, can't fault them in that regard.
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Sep 20, 2020 23:32
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Southpaugh posted:Being a vegan is fine and dandy, on paper. Its not a one size fits all diet though and you need to stay ontop of your micro and macronutrients. If you want to do it, fine. The second part here seems like a very strange attitude to me. If not veganism, or at least something much closer to veganism than our current diets, what is your solution to the environmental effects of providing everyone sufficient food? I certainly agree that it needs to be part of a change to a socialist economic system, and that individual action won't be enough, but it also seems like socialism is not itself sufficient to solve the problem. So, what's the deal?
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Sep 20, 2020 23:39
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Also where does the North American left's affinity towards Islam come from? Anti-imperialism? Malcolm X? As someone who was raised Muslim it's kinda cool but also really perplexing.
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Sep 21, 2020 00:22
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ToxicAcne posted:Also where does the North American left's affinity towards Islam come from? Anti-imperialism? Malcolm X? As someone who was raised Muslim it's kinda cool but also really perplexing. The anti-imperialism stuff mostly, though I don't know if I'd say the left has an affinity towards Islam. There's definite sympathy for Muslims and more than a few converts, but I'd say that most western leftists have a Protestant theology even if they aren't specifically Christian.
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Sep 21, 2020 00:35
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Hmm. maybe it's the circle that I frequent in real life and online, but there are like that lefty trans activist on twitter that converted to islam, or the chapo people's (joking) use of Shia theology that I'm thinking of. It kinda reminds me of how white liberals gravitate towards Buddhism.
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Sep 21, 2020 00:38
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ToxicAcne posted:Also where does the North American left's affinity towards Islam come from? Anti-imperialism? Malcolm X? As someone who was raised Muslim it's kinda cool but also really perplexing. the above, plus a reaction to gross people like dawkins whose take on christianity and atheism we barely tolerated, even those who are leftist athiests, when it was aimed at deserving christians suddenly becoming totally okay and cool with the worst of those in order to make it clear that when they say religion they mean islam i don't think islam is better than other religions, but i don't think it's worse; i think any definition of the west that isn't written to purely to justify wars of conquest and hegemony has to include the birthplace of islam and the heritage of muslim philosophy, science, culture, and yes, religion, as well as its regional antecedents (all of which are shared with the rest of the "west"). most of the current bad poo poo in islam is a circumstantial reflection of the bad stuff in, particularily american, christianity. also i think the government of israel and its supporters, currently and historically, are apartheid colonialists who spit on and abuse the memory of their own kin who died in the holocaust by recreating it, and my support for their palestinian victims in the face of their blasphemous hypocrisy is an expression of the idea the the holocaust should never happen again, to anyone. and they work tirelessly to ensure that it does, and are damned in every sense, religious or secular for it. Hodgepodge fucked around with this message at 00:49 on Sep 21, 2020 |
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Sep 21, 2020 00:42
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Anti-Muslim bigotry undergirded the abridgment of civil liberties post-9/11, the War on Terror, and of course the Iraq War. Americans on the left opposed all of those things, so combating that bigotry took on fundamental importance.
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Sep 21, 2020 00:45
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strict veganism never made sense to me from a sustainability perspective. i get my eggs from the egg lady down the street but my avocados are from chiapas and huehuetenango
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Sep 21, 2020 00:51
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ToxicAcne posted:Why is veganism always labelled as a liberal distraction in leftist circles? If humanity is to have any chance of surviving the next century, we have to cut down meat consumption, yet the vitriol towards vegans and animal rights activists is insane. because the really vocal and insistent advocates are always liberals, and as other smarter people have said, it doesn't matter right now and wouldn't matter without global change. also, while industrial farming is bad, i don't actually think cattle ranching itself is bad and something that should be stopped. just the scale reduced, and dependence on reduced. its like how the perfect socialist future wont have every person need a car every day, but cars will still exist also the green fascist psychos who are always talking about population control tend to be advocates of strict vegan enforcement too and therefore veganism is cringe
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Sep 21, 2020 00:55
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return of the larry
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Sep 21, 2020 00:56
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Sep 21, 2020 01:10
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i say swears online posted:strict veganism never made sense to me from a sustainability perspective. i get my eggs from the egg lady down the street but my avocados are from chiapas and huehuetenango At least in the US, probably very few of the eggs that are eaten are from the egg lady down the street, and the overwhelming majority are from factory farms. And some people's vegan diets may be worse from an environmental perspective than others, and at the extreme end some people's vegan diets may even be worse than people who eat meat at an average American level, it's sort of a game of averages. The average vegan diet is probably far, far less environmentally destructive than the average American diet. It doesn't need to be true in each individual case.
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Sep 21, 2020 01:10
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god drat i wish
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Sep 21, 2020 01:18
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PERPETUAL IDIOT posted:The second part here seems like a very strange attitude to me. If not veganism, or at least something much closer to veganism than our current diets, what is your solution to the environmental effects of providing everyone sufficient food? I certainly agree that it needs to be part of a change to a socialist economic system, and that individual action won't be enough, but it also seems like socialism is not itself sufficient to solve the problem. So, what's the deal? It was better put up thread, but basically, all industrial agriculture is suspect. Capitalism makes it that way. Look at the vast oversupply of food that went to waste right at the start of the pandemic. Crops being mulched back into the fields and so on. We overproduce and the mismanagement starts in the boardroom. This is without bringing up things like food grading and other oversupply/production issues. Or the vast amounts of traditional forests/rainforest that gets cleared and tilled every year to supply an ever growing demand for vegetable oils palm and soybeans and poo poo. Look up how much water almonds take up in california alone and you'll realise that the issue like, everything else is gross mismanagement and free market capitalism. Veganism as a solution is often brought up as a personal choice that the individual has to make, you know, its the ethical choice. You want to do the right thing right? But individuals do not effect markets, corporations do, and a corporation already decides what diet you eat based off of what's available in your locally (often traditionally)/their own supply chains. Unless you are hitting the farmers market you're probably being fed by a corporate entity. My take on it is that people have very strong emotional connections with foods and diets, frequently unexamined ones and bringing up your personal diet is about as relevant to the discussion as your sex life.
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Sep 21, 2020 01:36
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Larry Parrish posted:because the really vocal and insistent advocates are always liberals, and as other smarter people have said, it doesn't matter right now and wouldn't matter without global change. also, while industrial farming is bad, i don't actually think cattle ranching itself is bad and something that should be stopped. just the scale reduced, and dependence on reduced. its like how the perfect socialist future wont have every person need a car every day, but cars will still exist Most environmentalists are liberals. In fact, a lot of causes are predominately liberal. probably because there's a lot of liberals and not many radicals. weird. The moral, social, environmental, and economic impacts of meat production are insane. I'm not sure why any leftist would take any time defending the lifestyle surrounding it. Maybe instead of patronizing vegan liberal activists, maybe you could take the time to teach them a little class consciousnesses. A lot of them are extreme with their activism: sabotaging, breaking-and-entering, constant protest. They are are pretty effective and you might want them on your side. Just because they haven't read Marx doesn't mean they should be dismissed as a group. Larry Parrish posted:i don't actually think cattle ranching itself is bad and something that should be stopped. just the scale reduced, and dependence on reduced. its like how the perfect socialist future wont have every person need a car every day, but cars will still exist This is the most liberal outcome of meat production. Like, sure, cattle ranching is sustainable when it's only available to wealthy consumers. If meat production only was done through grassland grazing, I'm not sure how you'd be able to sustainably and equitably make beef available for 7.5 billion people.
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Sep 21, 2020 01:37
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THS posted:god drat i wish imagine having that compute rtoucher money... sheeitt
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Sep 21, 2020 01:38
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Kindest Forums User posted:This is the most liberal outcome of meat production. Like, sure, cattle ranching is sustainable when it's only available to wealthy consumers. If meat production only was done through grassland grazing, I'm not sure how you'd be able to sustainably and equitably make beef available for 7.5 billion people. soup rations
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Sep 21, 2020 01:41
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Historically, in the Islamic world, most people only ate meat on Eid al Adha. I think that in a future society, meat being this treat that's given out once a while to everybody would be tolerable.
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Sep 21, 2020 01:42
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Southpaugh posted:It was better put up thread, but basically, all industrial agriculture is suspect. Capitalism makes it that way. Look at the vast oversupply of food that went to waste right at the start of the pandemic. Crops being mulched back into the fields and so on. We overproduce and the mismanagement starts in the boardroom. This is all true. Like I said, veganism, or close to it, is necessary but not enough on its own. The last line is the funny one though. People have strong feelings about a lot of aspects of their lives. You're comfortable bringing up the socialist revolution, and explaining how it's necessary, but not also tell people that they need to eat less hamburgers? The second part of that is the one that's a bridge too far?
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Sep 21, 2020 01:49
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For people day to day? Kind of yeah? I mean you can't get people to wear loving masks right now. You're not going to tell them that grandmas special gravy and that roast beef on a sunday is now exclusively for christmas or thanksgiving or whatever. Drugs are illegal, they frequently come from very far away, completely illegally. Drugs are something most people have reservations about. They still sell and are supplied in vast quantities. Can you imagine what a black market for loving, paté or chicken nuggets or whatever would be like?
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Sep 21, 2020 02:17
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 wonder what kind of person would have their family's heirlooms stored in a Russian museum
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Sep 21, 2020 02:28
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same but replace the family heirlooms with failed/sabotaged revolutions and rearming the reichswehr
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Sep 21, 2020 02:45
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lol if i could clear 30k a year i'd be in so much better shape (in cnd but i also don't have your nightmare medical system to painfully execute me for being poor)
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Sep 21, 2020 04:00
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I never noticed the astronaut with the gun is wearing an ohio patch. A nice memory of historical meme origins
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Sep 21, 2020 04:05
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one of the funnier parts of the bible is when god gives the tribes manna in the desert, which is a perfect food literally from heaven that tastes exactly like whatever you most want it to except better because it's pefect. the people demanded meat. really feel for moses thinking about him having to tell that one to the big g. like pure "please don't abandon or kill my people, even though i would totally be with you on their deserving it right now" energy there e: there are sturgeon in the fraser, and only local people such as the sto:lo are allowed to fish them, for ceremonial purposes such as feasts. i've eaten a little, as a guest. society has ways of dealing with a meat being an occasional treat due to conservationist concerns that aren't necessarily "sell this to the richest rear end in a top hat." Hodgepodge fucked around with this message at 04:12 on Sep 21, 2020 |
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Sep 21, 2020 04:09
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Its less important to get every1 to stop eating meat, and more important to get bourgeois amerikkkan settler pigs to stop eating meat imo. This will be easy once every westerner is shipped to antarctica
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Sep 21, 2020 04:14
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Algund Eenboom posted:Its less important to get every1 to stop eating meat, and more important to get bourgeois amerikkkan settler pigs to stop eating meat imo. This will be easy once every westerner is shipped to antarctica nah, just the bourgeoise and their fanclub will do also, while this is normally considered a forced relocation, a communist state in a position to do such things could easily infiltrate them with a musk type who convinces them they're going as brave pioneers who will later escape to mars
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Sep 21, 2020 04:29
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| # ? May 26, 2024 15:42 |
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there are plenty of decent logistical arguments in favor of people adopting a more plant-focused diet, but veganism is an empty liberal ideology that comes in the form of an eating disorder and is only possible on the scale it presently enjoys due to energy-intensive modern transport and farming technology giving the stink eye to someone eating a burger raised the next state or province over while enjoying a salad in which half the ingredients were shipped from another continent is prime lib poo poo
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Sep 21, 2020 04:37
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