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Vote to threadban Bioshuffle This poll is closed. |
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| Yes (Goku) |
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146 | 85.38% |
| No (also Goku) |
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25 | 14.62% |
| Total: | 171 votes | ||
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Aphrodite posted:They don't really have to check a roof for a gas leak. Those firemen are going to feel like absolute idiots for not finding a gas leak and then a house explodes.
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Sep 21, 2020 15:38
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Butcher didn't really try to evade Vought. He looks at and flips off the camera in the clip Black Noir is shown. Then he's on Black Noir's radar, so Vought's normal security just lets him be because it's a Seven thing now.
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Sep 21, 2020 15:55
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I don't think he was let in on purpose by security, in order to follow him - or the scene with BN forcing the tech to go through the video feeds doesn't make sense, since we now know he's working directly for Edgar. I would say that nobody at the site noticed the trespasser but they probably noticed Becca was acting weirdly during the day Butcher was there (and immediately after), reported it to Edgar, who then sent BN to investigate. There are miles of walls around the compound, but Becca's house is for sure monitored 24/7. That Italian Guy fucked around with this message at 16:10 on Sep 21, 2020 |
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Sep 21, 2020 16:05
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Not in, no. Black Noir sees the footage only after.
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Sep 21, 2020 16:11
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I feel like Becca has more leverage than she's being given credit for, at least with Vought, since she's the only person with any control over Ryan - they can't really risk killing her or take her away from him, simply because of the high chance of driving the second most powerful being on the planet into a vengeful rampage (or at least giving him a massive grudge) and the only one who could conceivably stop him is Homelander, who is borderline-uncontrollable at the best of times and completely unreliable as a failsafe.
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Sep 21, 2020 16:14
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spacetoaster posted:Ok, so the story with HL's kid is completely open and uncharted territory. The show has changed so much from the comics in positive ways I wouldn't worry too much about them. Like in the comics it takes forever for Hughie to realize he's dating a supe, and then he's super judgemental about Starlight's rape when he finds out about it.
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Sep 21, 2020 16:20
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Woden posted:Those firemen are going to feel like absolute idiots for not finding a gas leak and then a house explodes. Oh poo poo, they missed an excellent gag there.
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Sep 21, 2020 16:28
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Just went back and re-watched the scene when Ryan (HL's son) gets mad a shoves HL. I have to wonder if a "natural born" supe is more powerful than a compound V supe? Because if this kid, at 11, is shoving homelander down on the ground, how much more powerful is he going to be when he gets bigger?
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Sep 21, 2020 16:33
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Homelander let Butcher live because Becca asked him to (presumably so he'd get some HL Jr access). Homelander said as much
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Sep 21, 2020 16:44
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Aphrodite posted:It seems that it normally doesn't. Homelander's assumption is just that because he's so powerful, his son will be different.
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Sep 21, 2020 16:48
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One of the more egregious plot holes for me was Becca dropping that Billy is and always was a horrible violent man, it just felt unearned. They released a short called Butcher which happens before Frenchie gets in touch, which does cover over the hole, but again still feels after the fact. Season 1 repeatedly showed and told us, that he became a weapon after Becca was raped and disappeared. I am just putting it down to unreliable narrators, for my own peace of mind. That short and the deleted scenes should absolutely be watched as some set up plot points that unfold later. Oh and Butcher would never have got out of his regiment and into the SAS as they are very keen on keeping unreliable characters out. Also, why is it always airborn, there are other special regiments.  Though if they said he was a ex-para, all would have made sense.
Collateral fucked around with this message at 16:58 on Sep 21, 2020 |
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Sep 21, 2020 16:51
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I mean he was still in the CIA, he's an actual supervillain.
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Sep 21, 2020 16:54
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That Italian Guy posted:There are miles of walls around the compound, but Becca's house is for sure monitored 24/7. How much information do we have about the compound? Is it reference in any of the other episodes before this? The whole idea of recreating an entire neighborhood just to take care of one superhero is one of the creepiest things we've seen in the show. I would have loved to seen Becca give more than a 2 dimensional performance with regards to her child. Collateral posted:One of the more egregious plot holes for me was Becca dropping that Billy is and always was a horrible violent man, it just felt unearned. They released a short called Butcher which happens before Frenchie gets in touch, which does cover over the hole, but again still feels after the fact. Season 1 repeatedly showed and told us, that he became a weapon after Becca was raped and disappeared. I am just putting it down to unreliable narrators, for my own peace of mind. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1d8oqIXtjdo (Warning: Don't watch if you don't want to cry in the middle of your work day) For what it's worth with regards to the sloppy writing and Kimiko's escape, I am completely willing to suspend my disbelief for the sake of the show. I completely understand it's necessary to keep the plot moving. I was just curious about which other little details I may have missed. I always love reading about stuff like that. That's all. I've seen shows with absolutely god awful writing to the point where I had to stop watching (HBO's Watchmen comes to mind), but this is not one of those shows. If the show played out like it would in reality, I feel like Homelander would have killed off all of the members of the boys and we wouldn't have another season to begin with. Bioshuffle fucked around with this message at 17:01 on Sep 21, 2020 |
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Sep 21, 2020 16:58
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Collateral posted:One of the more egregious plot holes for me was Becca dropping that Billy is and always was a horrible violent man, it just felt unearned. They released a short called Butcher which happens before Frenchie gets in touch, which does cover over the hole, but again still feels after the fact. Season 1 repeatedly showed and told us, that he became a weapon after Becca was raped and disappeared. I am just putting it down to unreliable narrators, for my own peace of mind. I disagree. The "hitherto nice guy turns into a revenge-driven psycho" maybe be a genre trope, but it makes sense that Butcher was some kind of Operator/black bag guy before he met Becca. Grace Mallory may have honed him even more sharply after the loss of Becca, but I don't think she was starting from a butterknife. One of my favorite takes on Frank Castle was in the Punisher: Born. He was a complete violent nutcase in Vietnam, just given into bloodlust. He went back to his family and shelved the worst impulses for a while, then their murder just let the animal back out of the cage. It was always bubbling just below the surface.
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Sep 21, 2020 17:00
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alexandriao posted:brb getting this embroidered into signs and putting them right next to the entrance I need that tat on the shoulder, opposite the "You don't scare me! I was born scared." Tat
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Sep 21, 2020 17:01
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spacetoaster posted:Ok, so the story with HL's kid is completely open and uncharted territory. If you want to see how the comics handled it: https://imgur.com/a/9vMfFWE#EOW8WHb
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Sep 21, 2020 17:01
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Owlbear Camus posted:I don't think she was starting from a butterknife.
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Sep 21, 2020 17:03
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Asgerd posted:I feel like Becca has more leverage than she's being given credit for, at least with Vought, since she's the only person with any control over Ryan - they can't really risk killing her or take her away from him, simply because of the high chance of driving the second most powerful being on the planet into a vengeful rampage (or at least giving him a massive grudge) and the only one who could conceivably stop him is Homelander, who is borderline-uncontrollable at the best of times and completely unreliable as a failsafe. In a world where the general public know about Compound V I don't feel like Homelander having a son is particularly great leverage, really. I also feel like the whole "here's your first and final offer, don't release the pics ok?" "done" was tying that all up in a bow a bit too easily, but I suppose we'll see it unravel shortly. I mean if you're being strictly pedantic BN could torture Hughey, MM and Butcher until they gave over the photos that don't exist, etc rather than just walking away. The show is great fun but like most shows of this kind it sortof falls apart narratively when you have basically invulnerable dudes fighting regular people. What can "The Boys" really do, the Compound V leak didn't do poo poo.
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Sep 21, 2020 17:04
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Durzel posted:It begs the question what are Vought doing in allowing Becca to raise HL's son like that? Why isn't he a lab rat like his Dad was? Is the belief that he'll end up more well adjusted with a mother around? Does the kid not think it strange that he can't go anywhere beyond the house? Yes. The doctor that "raised" Homelander in s1 said this. Also I imagine the compound is just an existing gated community, just with better  security.
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Sep 21, 2020 17:06
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Durzel posted:It begs the question what are Vought doing in allowing Becca to raise HL's son like that? Why isn't he a lab rat like his Dad was? Is the belief that he'll end up more well adjusted with a mother around? Does the kid not think it strange that he can't go anywhere beyond the house? Do you like watch every other episode? Vought has mentioned several times that they felt raising homelander without parents was the cause of many of their issues. Also it's not just his house theyve shown a while city with walls around it.
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Sep 21, 2020 17:07
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I assume Becca was one of Butcher’s canaries like Lenny and Huey. He’s always been a brutal guy and then it was a personal grievance with no limiter. One of the interesting changes is The Boys not getting any V themselves aside from Kimiko when in the comics they had some stuff that wasn’t top end but better than average. Butcher is a violent bully, but he can’t just intimidate and beat the tar out of one of the lesser supes to get his way like the comic. I liked it in the first season when it meant they had to be more creative, though right now it makes them seem ineffectual except for starlight’s subterfuge. yook fucked around with this message at 17:11 on Sep 21, 2020 |
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Sep 21, 2020 17:08
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Durzel posted:It begs the question what are Vought doing in allowing Becca to raise HL's son like that? Why isn't he a lab rat like his Dad was? Maybe some of the guys still in charge of Vought have a tiny bit of humanity left? Think of that old scientist that raised HL in a lab. He's living on a giant estate taking care of dogs regretting the way he raised HL. I think some of those "old guard" guys had a say in putting Ryan in a secured area to be raised by his mother.
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Sep 21, 2020 17:10
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yook posted:I assume Becca was one of Butcher’s canaries like Lenny and Huey. He’s always been a brutal guy and now he has a personal grievance with no limiter.
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Sep 21, 2020 17:12
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spacetoaster posted:Maybe some of the guys still in charge of Vought have a tiny bit of humanity left? I wouldn't ascribe it to any kind of humanity, so much as they're just changing the recipe for Ubermensch 2.0.
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Sep 21, 2020 17:16
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GD_American posted:I wouldn't ascribe it to any kind of humanity, so much as they're just changing the recipe for Ubermensch 2.0. Yeah, I don't remember exactly how the scene from season 1 played out, but was that scientist actually remorseful, or just wishing he'd run his experiment differently?
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Sep 21, 2020 17:17
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Owlbear Camus posted:I disagree. The "hitherto nice guy turns into a revenge-driven psycho" maybe be a genre trope, but it makes sense that Butcher was some kind of Operator/black bag guy before he met Becca. Grace Mallory may have honed him even more sharply after the loss of Becca, but I don't think she was starting from a butterknife. Yeah but the Punisher isn't shown as being recruited and trained* after his family gets killed. *Butcher accuses Mallory of turning him into a weapon, something she tells him she regrets doing. It wouldn't be as bad if she had said that she only pointed him in the right direction, he was already a weapon, but she didn't, did she.
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Sep 21, 2020 17:19
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spacetoaster posted:Yeah, I don't remember exactly how the scene from season 1 played out, but was that scientist actually remorseful, or just wishing he'd run his experiment differently? More like the second one. He has regrets, but not in a sympathetic way. He still came off as a huge rear end in a top hat to Homelander during that episode.
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Sep 21, 2020 17:20
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Now that I think about it, giving Ryan a relatively normal upbringing could easily backfire on Vought in a different way, since if he grew up to be even a moderately decent person he'd probably have no truck with their shady bullshit.
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Sep 21, 2020 17:33
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Owlbear Camus posted:One of my favorite takes on Frank Castle was in the Punisher: Born. He was a complete violent nutcase in Vietnam, just given into bloodlust. He went back to his family and shelved the worst impulses for a while, then their murder just let the animal back out of the cage. It was always bubbling just below the surface. I kinda feel like you read a different book than I did. Captain Frank Castle in Born was a killer, but he wasn't bloodthirsty. He was a soldier in love with war. He killed/"punished" one of his own men for violating the purity of his war by raping a wounded female VC sniper (later confessing to 'Stevie' that if he'd done anything but blow her brains out that 'no man in the platoon would ever trust him again.'). The only time he gives in to "bloodlust" is when he lets the "dark voice" speaking to him take control so he'll survive the siege of his firebase and be able to continue fighting a war forever. Even once he becomes the Punisher he mentions many times about how when he sleeps he's plagued by only two dreams - one where he and his family didn't go to the park that day, and the other being where he finally kills all of the evil and villainy in the world...and then turns on everyone who's left. In his own words, "in the dream I never stop." Killing the innocent is Frank's Rubicon. He's not bloodthirsty, he's methodical and ruthless.
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Sep 21, 2020 17:33
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spacetoaster posted:Ok, so the story with HL's kid is completely open and uncharted territory. Stilwell was one of the main antagonists of the comic, and killing her off was them signaling they were gonna ignore the comic whenever it suited them, imo
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Sep 21, 2020 17:34
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I got something pretty different from Born. He has a propensity for violence kept locked up by military discipline, he's torn between the family he loves and the war that allows him to wallow in his true nature (although always within some kind of code). Then that little voice gives him free reign to essentially Unleash The Beast on the NVA attack, wrapping it up with the point that he'll get to have that beast out full-time after he pays the price for his decision (the family dying). It was a clever take on a Faustian bargain. Whether you want to call it bloodlust or repressed anger or a taste for violence, it's all the same.
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Sep 21, 2020 17:38
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Durzel posted:In a world where the general public know about Compound V I don't feel like Homelander having a son is particularly great leverage, really. I also feel like the whole "here's your first and final offer, don't release the pics ok?" "done" was tying that all up in a bow a bit too easily, but I suppose we'll see it unravel shortly. I mean if you're being strictly pedantic BN could torture Hughey, MM and Butcher until they gave over the photos that don't exist, etc rather than just walking away. Yeah I wouldn't exactly call this one a "plot hole" but it felt a little flimsy and like a pulled punch.
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Sep 21, 2020 17:38
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GD_American posted:I got something pretty different from Born. He has a propensity for violence kept locked up by military discipline, he's torn between the family he loves and the war that allows him to wallow in his true nature (although always within some kind of code). Then that little voice gives him free reign to essentially Unleash The Beast on the NVA attack, wrapping it up with the point that he'll get to have that beast out full-time after he pays the price for his decision (the family dying). If you haven't read it already, get your hands on Ennis' "The Platoon." It tells the story of Castle's first command.
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Sep 21, 2020 17:40
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That Italian Guy posted:^^^^^ E: in the comics Becca gets raped by HL, doesn't tell Butcher (who notices something is off but doesn't realize what has happened). While they are sleeping in their house, Becca gets killed by the laser-eyed foetus and Butcher beats him to death. That's the end of HL junior in the comics. Nah, it was Black Noir in the comic
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Sep 21, 2020 17:44
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yook posted:
The V that Frenchie, Billy and Hughie take IS top end stuff, a strain of V that Vogelbaum (the creator of the stuff in the comics) made at Mallory's request, which only increases strength and durability by a factor of 50 with no side effects. It was also made to be prohibitely expensive to prevent the US government to just create super soldiers on their own. MM is technically a born supe but I'm glad they kept that story in the comics.
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Sep 21, 2020 17:45
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Durzel posted:In a world where the general public know about Compound V I don't feel like Homelander having a son is particularly great leverage, really. I also feel like the whole "here's your first and final offer, don't release the pics ok?" "done" was tying that all up in a bow a bit too easily, but I suppose we'll see it unravel shortly. I mean if you're being strictly pedantic BN could torture Hughey, MM and Butcher until they gave over the photos that don't exist, etc rather than just walking away. He also claimed he uploaded it to "the cloud". There's no guarantee that Vought could get it back even if they tortured him.
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Sep 21, 2020 17:46
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butcher actually has laser eyes but he only can use them when he thinks happy thoughts
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Sep 21, 2020 17:49
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El Padrino posted:The V that Frenchie, Billy and Hughie take IS top end stuff, a strain of V that Vogelbaum (the creator of the stuff in the comics) made at Mallory's request, which only increases strength and durability by a factor of 50 with no side effects. It was also made to be prohibitely expensive to prevent the US government to just create super soldiers on their own. Of all the dumb bullshit in the comics, the decision to make The Boys physically superior to 99% of all supers is the most absolutely insane one, even beyond the normal Ennis grossout stuff. It completely and totally undercuts all tension in every single fight or confrontation that doesn't involve Homelander for the entire comics run. It's loving bizarre.
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Sep 21, 2020 17:53
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Old Kentucky Shark posted:Of all the dumb bullshit in the comics, the decision to make The Boys physically superior to 99% of all supers is the most absolutely insane one, even beyond the normal Ennis grossout stuff. It completely and totally undercuts all tension in every single fight or confrontation that doesn't involve Homelander for the entire comics run. It's loving bizarre. I'm pretty sure that's why they decided to remove that part of the story, so the Boys have to get creative when engaging with the supes, and the show is all the better for it.
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Sep 21, 2020 17:56
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Old Kentucky Shark posted:Of all the dumb bullshit in the comics, the decision to make The Boys physically superior to 99% of all supers is the most absolutely insane one, even beyond the normal Ennis grossout stuff. It completely and totally undercuts all tension in every single fight or confrontation that doesn't involve Homelander for the entire comics run. It's loving bizarre. This is why I'm willing to forgive a little flimsiness with some of the blackmail, bargains, and such: sometimes it's a stretch but at least it's not as boring as if the Boys were basically "also supes, but the good ones because they are more openly psychotic and say swears more."
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Sep 21, 2020 17:59
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