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mfcrocker posted:If you actually believe in electorialism, surely the only plan of action that makes sense is to cause Starmer to lose the leadership, allowing the left of the party another opportunity to take it back - preferably with a leader who's willing to actually put the boots in and get rid of the wreckers. this is certainly what they did to us, so turnabout is fair play
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Sep 22, 2020 14:04
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Guavanaut posted:Join a union and also join pressure groups for issues that mean a lot to you. Be organized in public, write letters. Thank you. This helps. I have been talking non stop about it to my friends and colleagues but it felt like all I was doing was lamenting. If it could actually help then fantastic! Also mfcrocker I would love to do that and get rid of Starmer but I do not know how. That is part of my earlier question. How do you get rid of him with this current party and the current wrecking crew. How do you get rid of all of them?
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Sep 22, 2020 14:05
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Bobby Deluxe posted:Put it this way. If someone can prioritise their idealogical purity over the active worsening of conditions for minorities, refugees, disabled and vulnerable people, and the working poor, what does that say about them? I am poor and disabled, so I am aware that New Labour made things substantially worse for us last time, and sound like they'll do it again. I shall vote Labour if the local candidate is socialist (which seems likely). But I will never vote for a centrist, and I don't think anyone who does is acting in my interests, whatever they tell themselves.
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Sep 22, 2020 14:05
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VideoGames posted:Thank you. This helps. I have been talking non stop about it to my friends and colleagues but it felt like all I was doing was lamenting. If it could actually help then fantastic! I'm gonna guess he was being rhetorical, VG
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Sep 22, 2020 14:07
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https://twitter.com/TravellersTimes/status/1308381568633917440?s=19 Jesus Christ. Fair play to whoever was in on that call that leaked it but loving hell that she felt safe to be that racist in the first place.
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Sep 22, 2020 14:08
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Gonzo McFee posted:https://twitter.com/TravellersTimes/status/1308381568633917440?s=19 The person who leaked it was apparently "the board of deputies on their youtube page" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VUdOlo8Lm0
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Sep 22, 2020 14:10
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Barry Foster posted:I'm gonna guess he was being rhetorical, VG Oh  I really want to be pointed in the best direction. I do not want to act poorly if there is some legit thing I could be doing. I did a little bit of signla boosting last election (no where near the levels some of the wonderful people in this thread did) but I want to know what my next steps are.
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Sep 22, 2020 14:11
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VideoGames posted:Thank you. This helps. I have been talking non stop about it to my friends and colleagues but it felt like all I was doing was lamenting. If it could actually help then fantastic! Unless something explosive happens, he leaves when he loses the next election.
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Sep 22, 2020 14:11
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SpaceCommie posted:The brake pad contacts the disk which is attached to the axle. Somewhere a single tear rolls down Erik Buell's cheek. (Explanation for non-nerd non-bikers, because explanations always improve comedy - Erik Buell is a bike designer who tried, multiple times, to get an American superbike brand up and running, almost always stymied by the fact that he used Harley engines which are... not really up to spec for any kind of performance applications. He tried to make up for by throwing every weird design trick in the book at his bikes - fuel kept in the frame, oil kept in the swingarm, exhausts routed like the tangle of wires behind your computer, back-to-front shocks, and most of all ZTL brakes. Performance motorbike brakes are almost always twin-disk (two brake disks, one either side of the front wheel - for CoG reasons the rear brake isn't really much of a factor), which is pretty heavy because of both the duplication of the components and also the need for a seriously beefy wheel hub to cope with the fact that under heavy braking you've got several hundred newton-metres of torque going in opposite directions through the hub. ZTL (Zero Torsional Load) brakes are a single disk mounted to the rim of the wheel, the idea being that the whole assembly is lighter even though the disk itself is heavier than the twin disks it replaces. For years he berated the rest of the motorcycle industry for sticking with such outmoded brake designs (even though, conceptually, ZTL is actually an even older design) but the fact that he was stuck with potato-cannon Harley engines meant there was no real way of comparing the two concepts. When he finally bit the bullet and designed his own engine, giving him a bike that could theoretically be in the mix in racing, complete with ZTL brakes he was convinced he would be vindicated. Except all that extra weight at the rim, and the unbalanced weight of a single caliper (with a correspondingly beefier fork on one side), made the handling weird, and the single caliper massively overheated. Overnight the race engineers swapped in a conventional front end... and the bike instantly went 4 seconds a lap quicker (but was still massively off the pace because the rest of the bike was a bit of a lemon too). Buell went bankrupt for the third or fourth time shortly after, and ZTL brakes were relegated to their rightful place of "cool thing to put on your bike of the future concept")
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Sep 22, 2020 14:11
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I see your point Bobby, and of course if it meant my 1 vote could save a persons life, even just make them comfortable, and I knew that - sure I'd grit my teeth and vote Labour. I just feel at the moment that Keir is trying to appeal to sensible rule-following people and socialism is dead, vote for Britain etc. - this kind of rhetoric is more dangerous to me as last time we had a 'respectable' Labour leader, thousands died in the Middle East for nowt. It wasn't worth it. Who knows, maybe Labour will be more likely to form a coalition with the Lib Dems and SNP next time around, maybe they'll win outright, maybe they'll just lose to Rishi or whatever. But the message I'm getting at the moment is that we deserved to lose the last election, my vote and support didn't count for poo poo, and I need to disregard how I think the world should work so I can become a part of the mechanism of democracy. As a voter he isn't exactly filling me with hope, and seen through the prism of electoralism, he should be doing something for people on the left. Instead he's just serving burnt cake and inside is filled with poo poo.
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Sep 22, 2020 14:12
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Barry Foster posted:I'm trying not to be rude but you clearly don't understand what we're trying to tell you. That's ok - overcoming hypernormalisation is loving difficult and it's painful - but don't insult us by trying to insinuate we're somehow mentally ill for not agreeing with you Barry Foster posted:You really, really can't, man. It's a horrible thing to have to swallow and internalise, but it's pretty important - for your own sanity, if nothing else - that parliamentary politics will not save you OwlFancier posted:People are telling you that they will be the ones to suffer as a result. I would suggest that there is not a "healthy" choice when both choices likely lead to you being utterly hosed, but that spitting bile is about the only expected choice. One choice keeps me hosed as I currently am. Pressure can be applied from the unions and extraparliamentary groups to the second choice to minimise how hosed I end up, or possibly even improve things! The first choice are currently dismantling legal frameworks to completely gently caress the unions. This isn't a choice, it's a moral imperative.
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Sep 22, 2020 14:17
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mfcrocker posted:Unless something explosive happens, he leaves when he loses the next election. Nope, he leaves when he loses two elections. See: Kinnock.
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Sep 22, 2020 14:18
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Starmer literally told teaching unions to get hosed and fired the shadow education secretary who was "too friendly" with unions because they were disagreeing with his plan to kill as many people as possibly by forcing children back to school during the plague. Again, what is different between him and the tories?
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Sep 22, 2020 14:20
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Gonzo McFee posted:https://twitter.com/TravellersTimes/status/1308381568633917440?s=19 She would feel safe since cracking down on travellers was literally a manifesto pledge.
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Sep 22, 2020 14:20
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I genuinely don't understand "vote for the not evil party" but then telling you to vote for Kier starmer and the bloody handed assassins of the British left E like my intent is to vote for a non evil party, that's what you're trying to convince me not to do lol
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Sep 22, 2020 14:21
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Gonzo McFee posted:https://twitter.com/TravellersTimes/status/1308381568633917440?s=19 And felt safe to say all that to Jewish community leaders, and claimed that this was not racist because 'travellers' are different to Gypsies and Roma.
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Sep 22, 2020 14:24
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Bobby Deluxe posted:You literally said last page that disengaging was the healthy thing to do and implied that I was only taking an opposing view because I didn't understand or was in denial, please don't try and turn this back on me: The last thing I told you to do was to disengage. I was telling you to disengage from parliamentary politics. In fact, a different way to put it is that parliamentary politics are a form of disengagement, of getting caught up in a meaningless autopoietic system that exists only as a front for capital, and in so doing losing track of the Real. You literally said 'you don't need to protest, just tick a box every five years', which is the absolute extremity of disengagement from the political This is what I meant when I said that you weren't getting what I was trying to say. Now, maybe that's my fault, I don't know, but I was only ever trying to spur you to think outside the false 'lesser or greater evil' dichotomy of electoralism EDIT - like, if you hear me say 'don't bother voting, in a capitalist democracy electoralism will never further left wing goals' and your response is 'but that's pure nihilism!' then it really does say more about your own weltanschauung than it does mine, and I'm not being bitchy when I say that. Barry Foster fucked around with this message at 14:31 on Sep 22, 2020 |
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Sep 22, 2020 14:25
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Bobby Deluxe posted:Once choice fucks me completely. It's like you don't remember New Labour at all.
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Sep 22, 2020 14:30
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Guavanaut posted:She felt safe to be that racist in the first place on something that she knew would be made public, and also lied repeatedly about the police death. Tory party policy is to attack the T in any acronym
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Sep 22, 2020 14:39
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 Traveller Exclusionary Racist Fucks
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Sep 22, 2020 14:42
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Going to other people's houses is now not allowed in Scotland. Also I think this is probably the closest Nicola has come to talking about constitutional arrangements in one of these speeches. though this speech was in parliament, not one of the regular briefings, so i guess it's not out of place: https://twitter.com/theSNP/status/1308399796609265664 Total Meatlove posted:Tory party policy is to attack the T in any acronym bacon and lettuce is enough for us. none of these fancy foreign tomatoes coming over here infesting our sandwiches
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Sep 22, 2020 14:56
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"It is possible we might do something different" lol. Why even have multiple parties any more honestly.
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Sep 22, 2020 14:58
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Bobby Deluxe posted:You literally said last page that disengaging was the healthy thing to do and implied that I was only taking an opposing view because I didn't understand or was in denial, please don't try and turn this back on me: No it's not, it's an illusion of moral imperative to ensure the status quo doesn't shift away from neoliberalism. The left automatically always backing a Labour Party regardless of what they do or support means that Labour don't need to bother appealing to them at all, just always stay mildly less bad than the Conservative Party. The choice is black and white and always has been: socialism or barbarism. Why on earth do you think it matters if the barbarian is wearing a blue ribbon or a red ribbon when the end result is the same? And stop calling everyone who disagrees with you blackpilled for fucksake, deciding this miserable, bleak status quo is the best we can even be allowed to imagine is far more nihilistic and dangerous than anything anyone discussing this with you has proposed. In other news, if Keit Starmer and friends aren't calling for Patel to get punted then they entirely prove why you shouldn't be enabling these nasty cynical cunts by voting for them automatically.
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Sep 22, 2020 15:02
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really i was hoping for a bit more actual stuff. again scotland is doomed to be slightly better than england in some respects and no further
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Sep 22, 2020 15:02
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Angepain posted:bacon and lettuce is enough for us. none of these fancy foreign tomatoes coming over here infesting our sandwiches 
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Sep 22, 2020 15:08
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Angepain posted:really i was hoping for a bit more actual stuff. again scotland is doomed to be slightly better than england in some respects and no further Scotland doesn't have many options. Sturgeon is starting to frame the argument in those terms, as expected.
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Sep 22, 2020 15:10
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Whelp, there goes my Friday night Warhammer game
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Sep 22, 2020 15:16
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Angepain posted:Going to other people's houses is now not allowed in Scotland. Also I think this is probably the closest Nicola has come to talking about constitutional arrangements in one of these speeches. though this speech was in parliament, not one of the regular briefings, so i guess it's not out of place: yeah my scottish partner has been being driven to madness and despair by disappointment in queen nic she talks a good game but cant do loving anything so every one of her speeches has just been her saying the same stuff but then announcing Bojo's policies either slightly before or after he does i thought that was an illuminating comment where she admits the scottish government is fake and isn't doing anything because they don't have anything they can do other than talk. but then she also tries to have her cake and eat it by couching it in language about how its also a balance etc
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Sep 22, 2020 15:20
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Nicola's sent my first trip away in 12 months up the swanny I was gonna stay in a castle dammit.
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Sep 22, 2020 15:24
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I mean, the scottish government hasn't done totally nothing, there are more restrictions on people meeting each other, the proximity app actually exists up here, and honestly I think there is some worth in just delivering the messaging without bumbling and contradicting through the entirety of it. but it's still just adding bits around the edges rather than any kind of radical change, yes. It seems like Nicola has been hesitant to make too much of a deal about that as it might be interpreted as politicising it, though given how her briefings are already being labelled nat propaganda why not just go the whole hog i guess
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Sep 22, 2020 15:26
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Angepain posted:I mean, the scottish government hasn't done totally nothing, there are more restrictions on people meeting each other, the proximity app actually exists up here, and honestly I think there is some worth in just delivering the messaging without bumbling and contradicting through the entirety of it. but it's still just adding bits around the edges rather than any kind of radical change, yes. It seems like Nicola has been hesitant to make too much of a deal about that as it might be interpreted as politicising it, though given how her briefings are already being labelled nat propaganda why not just go the whole hog i guess Yeah as long as it actually works they do have an app here I think the SNP like the fame and money without the effort thing they have going on. Its the same reason it's gauche for any party in England to talk about how parliament is clearly broken. They are in a fun situation as a one party state but the one party doesn't have any power. Imo the SNP not making a big deal out of their total lack of devolutionary powers while being ravaged by a disease tailor made to slay Scots with a hated known moron calling the actual shots... Its a very bad look and now I can't vote for them either lol Makes the whole thing look like a charade e: im also slighty worried that just nobody is collecting stats properly in scotland and things are worse than they appear which would make nicola look like a real poo poo... otoh scottish carehomes were a loving bloodbath and nobody seems to care Communist Thoughts fucked around with this message at 15:38 on Sep 22, 2020 |
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Sep 22, 2020 15:32
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fed up of hearing about the GRA stuff fed up of my identity being weaponised by a bunch of cunts
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Sep 22, 2020 15:39
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Beyond Boris is a nicompoop, how come Scotland has an app and the others don't? Why can't everyone just use that one?
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Sep 22, 2020 15:50
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https://twitter.com/WorldCup_of_MPs/status/1307952754443333633 Anyone But Corbyn movement out in force.
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Sep 22, 2020 15:53
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Sorry for derailing the thread. My opinions of how to engage or not engage with politics are after all just my opinion, not an absolute truth. I have been out and given the dog an extra long walk for his birthday. Vote. Don't vote. Vote for minority parties in the hope they can swing a coalition. Vote for joke parties in protest. Do what you want. I can't be fighting people I'm supposed to be on the same side as. Isn't Boris announcing new measures soon? Has he announced them yet?
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Sep 22, 2020 16:02
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JollyBoyJohn posted:Whelp, there goes my Friday night Warhammer game Although it's not the same, Tabletop Simulator is a thing
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Sep 22, 2020 16:03
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Bobby Deluxe posted:Sorry for derailing the thread. My opinions of how to engage or not engage with politics are after all just my opinion, not an absolute truth. I have been out and given the dog an extra long walk for his birthday. Vote. Don't vote. Vote for minority parties in the hope they can swing a coalition. Vote for joke parties in protest. Do what you want. I can't be fighting people I'm supposed to be on the same side as. we weren't fighting, dude, don't worry 
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Sep 22, 2020 16:06
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Bobby Deluxe posted:Sorry for derailing the thread. My opinions of how to engage or not engage with politics are after all just my opinion, not an absolute truth. I have been out and given the dog an extra long walk for his birthday. Vote. Don't vote. Vote for minority parties in the hope they can swing a coalition. Vote for joke parties in protest. Do what you want. I can't be fighting people I'm supposed to be on the same side as. It wasn't a derail, and while the exchange got a little heated it's helpful for people struggling with this decision to see others state and support their positions. I'm glad you had a good walk, happy birthday to your doggo!
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Sep 22, 2020 16:07
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Bobby Deluxe posted:Isn't Boris announcing new measures soon? Has he announced them yet? Pub shuts at 10 now. The fine for not wearing a mask that noone has ever got is now doubled. Don't go to work ever again.
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Sep 22, 2020 16:07
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NotJustANumber99 posted:Beyond Boris is a nicompoop, how come Scotland has an app and the others don't? Why can't everyone just use that one? Everyone else I think gets a useless app unless we go near Scottish people who have had a positive test. e: Apparently we do not all have the app, we can't unlock it without a code that you can only get from Scotland, IoW, or Newham. loving lol. This despite the NHS poster in the park. Guavanaut fucked around with this message at 16:12 on Sep 22, 2020 |
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Sep 22, 2020 16:08
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