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Beefeater1980 posted:
The problem of that is you risk becoming the dog that catches the car. I don’t see much of a problem with doing broadly what Starmer is doing ; nothing. Sit back and let’s the polls respond to Tory fuckups. In 2-3 years time, once he is seen as the imminent next government, and so the maximum number of people are listening and receptive, announce popular policies that will work. Once in government, you are not going.to be able to implement unpopular policies that don’t work. So if your version of socialism relies on them, it is not electoralism that is holding it back. That doesn’t mean that Starmer won’t gently caress things up, as in different ways Corbyn and Blair both did. It just means such a failure isn’t yet inevitable.
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Sep 23, 2020 10:59
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radmonger posted:Once in government, you are not going.to be able to implement unpopular policies that don’t work. Lol
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Sep 23, 2020 11:00
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radmonger posted:
have you heard of a country called the UK before?
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Sep 23, 2020 11:00
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@radmonger TBH I agree and that’s almost certainly what he’s doing: the Labour leadership has decided that the great British people are chronically short sighted and have memory capability approx 50% of your average goldfish, and they’re probably right. Any left wing leader needs either to neuter the media from opposition or to avoid creating subconscious pushback. Since 1 isn’t possible, 2 isn’t bad.
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Sep 23, 2020 11:03
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radmonger posted:The problem of that is you risk becoming the dog that catches the car. ... get monstered by the right wing press who ask why, if the Tory fuckups were so bad, he never suggested an alternative and in many cases agreed with them to the point of saying that he would do the same thing except knowing it was a fuckup. Starmer is not the "imminent next government" and never will be, because he has already lost the next election.
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Sep 23, 2020 11:04
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Communist Thoughts posted:have you heard of a country called the UK before? I mean he's sort of right in the sense that any future labour government that tries to do anything further left than, say, means testing hospital car park fees will be met with shrieking outrage. You're thinking of the current setup where the government can vaguely handwave through all kinds of mad poo poo
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Sep 23, 2020 11:05
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radmonger posted:Once in government, you are not going.to be able to implement unpopular policies that don’t work. 
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Sep 23, 2020 11:05
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Tarnop posted:Good job no one is doing that then Of course, no one here has said Starmer personally masterminded the brexit policy to sink labour and become leader at all. Or ignored the fact that many party members on the left were pushing for a 2nd ref position aswell. We lost the last election because of brexit, but that brexit position wasn't masterminded by the right, it's one many here thought would work at the time.
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Sep 23, 2020 11:05
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Nothingtoseehere posted:Of course, no one here has said Starmer personally masterminded the brexit policy to sink labour and become leader at all. Or ignored the fact that many party members on the left were pushing for a 2nd ref position aswell. We lost the last election because of brexit, but that brexit position wasn't masterminded by the right, it's one many here thought would work at the time. None of which is what you said in your original post
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Sep 23, 2020 11:07
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Lol in that world cup of MPs the fbpe lot decided to own the left by voting for... Rosena Allin-Khan, accidentally causing a result everyone is fairly happy with. Seriously though ban all "world cups of x". Twitter polls are the worst thing about that hell site.
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Sep 23, 2020 11:24
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https://twitter.com/Darren_Dutton/status/1307686110777282562
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Sep 23, 2020 11:26
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radmonger posted:Once in government, you are not going.to be able to implement unpopular policies that don’t work. Have you been in a coma for a decade?
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Sep 23, 2020 11:28
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I think there is a possibility Starmer wins the 2024 election, though realistically that means an SNP coalition as its not credible for Labour to win enough seats by themselves really. The problem (well one among many) is that Starmer is running on a similar theme to what Boris did in 2019 - vote for me, I'll manage things sensibly and you don't have to care or get involved in politics. Problem is that this is an admission they are not going to fix any of the big structural issues like climate change, rentierism and finance capital domination, which just means in 2029 you'd have an electorate even more disillusioned than Labour voters were in 2010.
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Sep 23, 2020 11:39
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Grey Hunter posted:Yeah, NOW I notice the bit of blue. I learn from being confronted and challenged, and I accept that I have made some significant errors in my public life. If someone then said I should not be read or listened to as a result of those errors, well, I would object internally, since I don't think any mistake a person made can, or should, summarise that person. We live in time; we err, sometimes seriously; and if we are lucky, we change precisely because of interactions that let us see things differently.
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Sep 23, 2020 11:44
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radmonger posted:Once in government, you are not going.to be able to implement unpopular policies that don’t work. Last decade shows not only will they be implemented, the electorate will glady sign up for more of the same again.
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Sep 23, 2020 11:53
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Once you are in government, you can implement whatever policies you want. It's getting their that's the tricky bit.
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Sep 23, 2020 11:56
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Random question: Sending a parcel to Scotland today and the address has "G/R" in front of the house number. Googling shows its quite common in Scottish addresses but it can't seem to tell me what it means, can anyone enlighten me?
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Sep 23, 2020 12:01
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Salford's Lowry Theatre to become Nightingale court Does anybody else find this deeply, deeply chilling? Like I know at the moment it’s only repurposing a venue rather than outright show trials but it feels like the stage has been set  Maybe I’m over-excitable today but I can imagine Enemies of England being denounced and sentenced to execution somewhere like this in the near future.
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Sep 23, 2020 12:01
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This is your periodic reminder that there was never majority popularity for basically any aspect of neo liberalism, water got privatised despite over 90% of people thinking it should be publicly owned
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Sep 23, 2020 12:01
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https://twitter.com/They_Goblin/status/1308713708881932289?s=19
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Sep 23, 2020 12:03
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TACD posted:Does anybody else find this deeply, deeply chilling? Like I know at the moment it’s only repurposing a venue rather than outright show trials but it feels like the stage has been set It won't, because good things don't happen this year.
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Sep 23, 2020 12:07
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escapegoat posted:Random question: I dont know but I feel persuaded by this plea to release scotland from the union by neal ascherson https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v42/n18/neal-ascherson/bye-bye-britain The union’s superstructure of Britishness also seems to maintain the myth. The elite, or upper crust, or ruling classes – whatever we call them – have a powerful interest in preserving this long-constructed British identity, using it to block the advance of political Englishness. They see English nationalism in class terms: as an angry and envious form of vulgar populism which potentially threatens the whole social order. For two centuries, the Ukanian middle class, in Tom Nairn’s coinage, in striking contrast to the role taken by bourgeois parties on the Continent, denied English popular nationalism a chance to mature into a radical, modernising force. Instead, it has been deliberately defined – by Farage-loathing Conservatives as much as anybody – as the politics of a xenophobic rabble which must at all costs be kept on the fringes
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Sep 23, 2020 12:09
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Guavanaut posted:If it transforms British courts from oak paneled monstrosities precided over by men in wigs and robes (and not in the Germaine Greer sense) into something resembling courts in the post 18th century world then I'm all for it. I'm imagining Q's courtroom from TNG. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnYcpebyDUg
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Sep 23, 2020 12:11
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Guavanaut posted:
This is a pretty dangerous path to go down, wherein someone is trans because of a biological state that is "empirical". Someone is trans because they are they state so and nothing more, and I'd really feel uncomofrtable going beyond that as how does this idea work for non-binary people for example.
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Sep 23, 2020 12:11
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escapegoat posted:Random question: A lot of Scottish flats are in blocks with two flats on each floor, but all sharing a single street number and external front door. So the flats get identifiers added. Your parcel is going to ground floor right.
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Sep 23, 2020 12:12
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RIP Brexit British Satellites. Need to go and crawl to the EU now to get GPS access. Cummings must be livid, can't give a few million now to party donors. to produce a man up a ladder.
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Sep 23, 2020 12:18
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JK Rowling shared a picture of a T-shirt she got which said ‘this witch doesn’t burn’ ( ) and linked it and, yikes:https://twitter.com/dawnhfoster/status/1308722895053615104?s=21
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Sep 23, 2020 12:22
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Tarnop posted:None of which is what you said in your original post The least bad Brexit position for Labour was probably the initial one where they accepted the result and pressured the Tories to do it in a way that wasn't utter poo poo. Democratic result, regardless of whether or not we particularly like it, trying to reverse it sets a dangerous precedent, etc. Labour Remainers weren't going to leave the party in serious numbers because leftism is more of a draw than Brexit for the majority of them, and nobody else came close to Labour's other policies for the stereotypical young urban Remain crowd. Leavers were always more volatile.
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Sep 23, 2020 12:23
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escapegoat posted:Random question: Stormgale posted:This is a pretty dangerous path to go down, wherein someone is trans because of a biological state that is "empirical". Someone is trans because they are they state so and nothing more, and I'd really feel uncomofrtable going beyond that as how does this idea work for non-binary people for example. None of that erases non-binary people, if people with a masculine gender identity tend to have a hypothalamus or bed nucleus of the stria terminalis structured in one way, and people with a feminine gender identity tend to have it structured in a different way, then what of someone with a structure midway between the two? It also suggests the bimodal bin model of sex. None of that changes that the performance of gender is largely social and the best way to figure out someone's identity is to ask them, but it does refute some common TERF talking points* and answer some important medical questions on how doctors should assign at birth, where you can't just ask someone. * Noxville posted:JK Rowling shared a picture of a T-shirt she got which said ‘this witch doesn’t burn’ ( 
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Sep 23, 2020 12:26
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Stormgale posted:This is a pretty dangerous path to go down, wherein someone is trans because of a biological state that is "empirical". Someone is trans because they are they state so and nothing more, and I'd really feel uncomofrtable going beyond that as how does this idea work for non-binary people for example. While I appreciate the concern - that a trans person would have to be tested to be "truly" trans - there being an element of biological determinism in gender identity doesn't change the fact that societies construct most elements of it or that soceities can and have created more gender labels to people to identify with. I don't think it's a easy discussion to have though.
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Sep 23, 2020 12:31
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idgi, so under the new guidance outdoor crowds at football are no bueno but indoor crowds at theatres are ok?
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Sep 23, 2020 12:37
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Stormgale posted:This is a pretty dangerous path to go down, wherein someone is trans because of a biological state that is "empirical". Someone is trans because they are they state so and nothing more, and I'd really feel uncomofrtable going beyond that as how does this idea work for non-binary people for example. I agree. If anyone is serious about taking the mountain of pain that comes with living outside their present body upon themselves, the rest of us ought to, I don’t know, try to help out? Try at least not to make things worse.
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Sep 23, 2020 12:37
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Sure, I just feel that any biological element to gender idendity might be useful in applying medical treatment (hormone interactions), wedding the cart to "Well theres this part of the brain that shows someons is trans". What happens if I don't have that particular element? Or it's borderline? Also I think it very much limits our discussion of gender identity to al ine between male/female (like identifying nonbinary as in the middle of the two).
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Sep 23, 2020 12:37
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the sex ghost posted:I know that leather shop!!! Definitely either a front for money laundering or it's got a fetish dungeon in the back room. I've been walking past it twice a day every day for 7 years and never a single customer inside but lots of glowing online reviews about the supple quality of the leather and the excellent service they received. https://twitter.com/matthewF0998/status/1308537411161460737?s=20 I used to go here as a teen, I think it looked the same back then too pretty much.
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Sep 23, 2020 12:41
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Stormgale posted:Sure, I just feel that any biological element to gender idendity might be useful in applying medical treatment (hormone interactions), wedding the cart to "Well theres this part of the brain that shows someons is trans". What happens if I don't have that particular element? Or it's borderline? Also I think it very much limits our discussion of gender identity to al ine between male/female (like identifying nonbinary as in the middle of the two). Presentation and roles are almost entirely socially constructed and can be challenged, gender identity is very likely biologic and recognizing that can help guide any treatment that a person may or may not wish to have without gatekeeping. Non-binary identities don't need to be 'in the middle of the two' as in an exact 50% line, it's probably a curve or bimodal bin that has only been limited by our previous inaccurate binary model of sex and hard link to gender. If you treat all three parts of gender as independent axes then that allows for "men can have long hair and wear a dress if they want and still be men" and "trans women are real women" without tripping into terfery. And there's probably more than three parts that can usefully be discussed, but three is the simplest that allows for that discussion without ending up in "women biologically belong in the kitchen"  badness.
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Sep 23, 2020 12:48
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https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1308724989579931650
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Sep 23, 2020 12:50
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Weetman has an article in the independent about Kieth’s speech that is so powerfully telling on herself that it’s off the scale even for her
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Sep 23, 2020 12:52
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What the gently caress does my families prosperity have to do with bombing Syria?
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Sep 23, 2020 12:56
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Morons like pesto see journalism as being David Attenborough. They're not here to present or comment on the detail which is hard to do in a nuanced and careful manner, they're here to lazily anthropomorphise the process and dress it up as some grand spectacle.
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Sep 23, 2020 12:57
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Gonzo McFee posted:What the gently caress does my families prosperity have to do with bombing Syria?
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Sep 23, 2020 12:59
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