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wow, they did not even attempt to optimize that for HD resolutions.
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Sep 23, 2020 00:19
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I'm a terminally broke-brained Sonic fan who finally picked up a Switch recently. I loved Generations and Mania, how bad is Forces really? It's $10 on sale right now.
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Sep 23, 2020 16:44
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I sense you have already made up your mind about the game where you can canonically be sonic's best bud If you have a pc or any other console it might be a better idea to get it on that if performance matters since I think it plays 30fps on switch
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Sep 23, 2020 16:50
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Twerk from Home posted:I'm a terminally broke-brained Sonic fan who finally picked up a Switch recently. I loved Generations and Mania, how bad is Forces really? It's $10 on sale right now. The classic Sonic stages are all pretty bad, he somehow controls significantly worse than in Generations Modern Sonic stages feel like they never get interesting, and they all end way too soon/out of nowhere The stages where you're your OC are...ok? Sometimes? Having Fist Bump blast while you high-five Sonic and do a double boost is always pretty silly and fun The game is mostly just very very disappointing, it's worse than Generations in almost every way, but for only $10 I guess give it a shot? If nothing else, making your own character is funny
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Sep 23, 2020 16:52
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That feels like the kind of price worth paying for Forces. It's rough, but it has its moments.
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Sep 23, 2020 16:52
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Great soundtrack, otherwise one of the most bafflingly unfinished games I've ever seen. It literally feels like they had to throw the levels together at the last minute with basic layouts and oversights all over the place. I'd drop $10 on it if you're curious, though, plus Episode Shadow is pretty decent, since they probably had time to put the levels together properly.
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Sep 23, 2020 17:00
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Twerk from Home posted:I'm a terminally broke-brained Sonic fan who finally picked up a Switch recently. I loved Generations and Mania, how bad is Forces really? It's $10 on sale right now. If you’ve played all the other Sonic games you might as well play it for $10.
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Sep 23, 2020 17:07
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Twerk from Home posted:I'm a terminally broke-brained Sonic fan who finally picked up a Switch recently. I loved Generations and Mania, how bad is Forces really? It's $10 on sale right now. It's one of the most lazy, heartless, cynical, disgusting releases in the entire franchise. It's pretty fun, I had a good time with it.
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Sep 23, 2020 17:14
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Sonic Forces is the most fun I've had with a Sonic game in forever, because it feels like you're 12 years old playing the Sonic comics with your OC, who has an electricity gun that can make you skip levels by zooming through lines of rings and also Sonic is your best friend and you save him from being tortured in prison.
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Sep 23, 2020 17:52
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I didn't find Forces to be that bad. It's just boring. Aside from having the OC designer, it doesn't really improve much from previous "boost" games. Didn't feel compelled to complete it. I could definitely see how it would be fun for kids and tweens though.
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Sep 23, 2020 18:15
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Every 3d level in Forces has at most one cool moment and then ends abruptly. There's never a sense of covering any distance, even though you're zooming at stupid speeds. Every 2d level drags on for far too long with far worse controls than Generations had. It could have been good if there was half the levels but they were longer. God I wish we got a port of Colors for the Switch.
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Sep 23, 2020 19:49
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Forces is just kind of... there... and then over. Which is honestly kind of worse than being bad, because at least bad can be interesting. The avatar stage themes slap though, definitely listen to those even if you don't play the game.
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Sep 23, 2020 21:18
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I've said it before and I'll say it again: there has to be a story behind this game, because they had the boost formula down pat, then just farted out this absolute nothing of a game where the avatar movement physics lurch you into pits, there are about five enemy types total, half the enemies don't have any AI and the lightning whip can be endlessly spammed so you don't take damage. Just completely bizarre.
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Sep 23, 2020 21:47
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Doctor_Fruitbat posted:I've said it before and I'll say it again: there has to be a story behind this game, because they had the boost formula down pat, then just farted out this absolute nothing of a game where the avatar movement physics lurch you into pits, there are about five enemy types total, half the enemies don't have any AI and the lightning whip can be endlessly spammed so you don't take damage. Just completely bizarre. Yeah, my initial thought after beating the game was "what the hell happened during this game's development?" because it feels like they only had time to make half of a game but they stretched it out into a "full" game by making all the levels, boss fights, and plot bad/boring
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Sep 23, 2020 23:40
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Wasn't the last mainline 3d sonic before Forces Sonic Boom from like 2014? Edit: and sonic boom wasn't even by sonic team iirc
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Sep 23, 2020 23:47
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beep by grandpa posted:Wasn't the last mainline 3d sonic before Forces Sonic Boom from like 2014? Do you count Fire and Ice, or does that fall into 2D? F&I was really really good.
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Sep 24, 2020 01:10
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Takoluka posted:Do you count Fire and Ice, or does that fall into 2D? F&I was really really good. It’s 2D, Rise of Lyric was the only 3D entry. That said, Fire & Ice was also the only good Boom game but that isn’t saying much. Mostly because it’s the only one that played like a Sonic game with the character switching (aside from a few early stages that are tailored around a certain characters moveset) only being used to collect items that are 100% optional and have no effect on the main story. Either way, Boom is a subseries and doesn’t really count. The last mainline 3D game prior to Forces was Lost World. Larryb fucked around with this message at 01:39 on Sep 24, 2020 |
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Sep 24, 2020 01:20
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beep by grandpa posted:Wasn't the last mainline 3d sonic before Forces Sonic Boom from like 2014? Pretty sure the last Sega-made one before Forces is Lost World from 2013 which was...eh
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Sep 24, 2020 01:35
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Lost World is much better than Forces. 
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Sep 24, 2020 01:38
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they ran out of ideas and someone gave them a deadline so they farted out a quick knock-off of the last thing that worked.
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Sep 24, 2020 01:55
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SeANMcBAY posted:Lost World is much better than Forces. I don't even think that's a hot take lol, Lost World has some actually fun levels and feels like a complete game, even if the control scheme is a bit wack and who cares about The Deadly Six
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Sep 24, 2020 03:28
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Xad posted:feels like a complete game except for the pointless padding where you have to replay stages and do the circus game to get enough animals to unlock arbitrary gates, and that they had to recycle the final boss from the previous game i do respect the ambition of trying to do something new and different with Lost World and appreciate the attempt to get back to some platforming in the series even if i didn't actually like the game itself the avatar traxx from Forces are better than anything to do with Lost World though
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Sep 24, 2020 03:37
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Sega continuing to try and make Zavok a thing is really baffling.
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Sep 24, 2020 03:47
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I don't even know what the circus game is so I guess it's something not in the PC version
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Sep 24, 2020 04:00
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As much as I like Lost World more than most 3D Sonic games, I would definitely not call it complete. It feels more and more obviously unfinished as you go on.
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Sep 24, 2020 04:02
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The biggest problem with Forces is that it feels super haphazard, and clearly rewritten and changed around. All of the stages are too short, and some weird stuff happened with the bosses and story. Like one of the first things they showed off was the return of Chaos, Shadow, Metal and Zavok as villains. However neither Chaos nor Shadow are fought, and the Metal and Zavok fights are not Metal or Zavok fights. The Zavok fight is against a giant bee robot that Zavok is on top of, Zavok does not do a single thing the entire fight. The Metal Sonic fight has Metal Sonic bloated to giant size in what was clearly an unfinished level they rushed out the door. As his boss fight is labeled as a stage for some reason, has Red Rings despite no other boss stage having them and they are all at the very start separated only by a few seconds. More damning for that fight is that the final Infinite fight is the same as the Metal fight (Which is super noticeable as Metal Sonic is the boss before Infinite) meaning either they reused Metal Sonic's fight for Infinite, or more likely given how haphazard the Metal fight is, the third Infinite fight was copy pasted as a Metal Sonic fight. MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 04:39 on Sep 24, 2020 |
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Sep 24, 2020 04:25
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I love how Red Gate actually has a full song to it but you hear two seconds of it because you almost immediately go into that QTE and then into the Metal Sonic fight.
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Sep 24, 2020 04:30
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kirbysuperstar posted:I love how Red Gate actually has a full song to it but you hear two seconds of it because you almost immediately go into that QTE and then into the Metal Sonic fight. Not entirely out of the ordinary for this series, to be fair.
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Sep 24, 2020 04:36
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Haha, yeah I did think of that shortly after posting.. good point.
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Sep 24, 2020 05:01
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so we've reached the end and finished Sonic 2...
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Sep 24, 2020 05:17
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Homora Gaykemi posted:except for the pointless padding where you have to replay stages and do the circus game to get enough animals to unlock arbitrary gates, and that they had to recycle the final boss from the previous game Hmm yeah, that's fair. Forces feels like every level is missing the second half and the plot doesn't make any sense/feels rushed*, Lost World feels like they tried to do way too much at once (and copy Mario Galaxy for some reason), because so many levels have so many different gimmicks and it never feels cohesive, but each individual level at least kinda feels like a complete thing? I also haven't played it since it came out but basically from what I remember they tried to do Colors, but Again And More Mario Galaxy but it was kinda just worse *Seriously you get sucked into a void and then immediately escape. Within the same cutscene almost! EDIT: Also having to do a side thing to unlock more levels isn't entirely new (though I wish they'd stop doing it), in Generations you have to do side missions to progress, in Unleashed you have to find the day/night medals, and in Lost World you need x number of birds to progress. It's annoying padding that nobody likes but some Sega CEO was probably like "INCREASE THE PLAYTIME BY X HOURS" though I guess they were allowed to not do that for Forces finally? Xad fucked around with this message at 05:53 on Sep 24, 2020 |
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Sep 24, 2020 05:51
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Sonic Team hasn't had anyone with an actual creative vision for I'm guessing about five years now. They're spinning their wheels and hoping someone's going to have an idea some time soon, occasionally pushing out whatever crap some idiot last wrote on a whiteboard whenever management starts making noises about anniversaries.
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Sep 24, 2020 06:21
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Dabir posted:Sonic Team hasn't had anyone with an actual creative vision for I'm guessing about five years now. They're spinning their wheels and hoping someone's going to have an idea some time soon, occasionally pushing out whatever crap some idiot last wrote on a whiteboard whenever management starts making noises about anniversaries. On that front at least, I'm pretty hopeful. Since Mania came out they've clearly realised the kind of talent they have access to, and given us a refreshed comic series, a bunch of animated projects they didn't need to do (I mean what even prompted Chao in Space?), brought in a ringer to smooth over the movie, and, most promisingly, added Tangle and Whisper to both mobile games, a treatment that no other spin-off character has gotten. So I'm sticking with my theory that they want to pull the games and spin-off content together instead of having alt universe stuff like Archie and Boom, and have finally realised that there is a talented and hungry fanbase of professional creators to draw from hopefully for the games as well, and I'll keep that hope alive until the next crushing disappointment, so I've got until at least next year.
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Sep 24, 2020 07:46
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Xad posted:Hmm yeah, that's fair. Forces feels like every level is missing the second half and the plot doesn't make any sense/feels rushed*, Lost World feels like they tried to do way too much at once (and copy Mario Galaxy for some reason), because so many levels have so many different gimmicks and it never feels cohesive, but each individual level at least kinda feels like a complete thing? I also haven't played it since it came out but basically from what I remember they tried to do Colors, but Again And More Mario Galaxy but it was kinda just worse I think that a Mania-level of length is all the Sonic Team can muster, but SEGA still wants to maximize the playtime, so they have to get creative. Either by reusing enviroments like in the Adventure series, making you play through the game multiple times to unlock the ending like in Heores and again Adventure, gate-lock the levels like in Unleashed, Lost World and Generations, or slice up the levels so it seems there's more of them even though they last 30 seconds like in Forces. Again, I wish for a rerelase of Colors so people who never had a Wii can experience what a good Sonic game feels like.
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Sep 24, 2020 08:47
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Xad posted:EDIT: Also having to do a side thing to unlock more levels isn't entirely new (though I wish they'd stop doing it), in Generations you have to do side missions to progress, in Unleashed you have to find the day/night medals, and in Lost World you need x number of birds to progress. It's annoying padding that nobody likes but some Sega CEO was probably like "INCREASE THE PLAYTIME BY X HOURS" though I guess they were allowed to not do that for Forces finally? To an extent I don't really mind sun/moon medals or red rings or whatever equivalent being used to unlock levels since that incentivizes exploring the levels as you play or replay them, and stuff like the Generations missions were fun little variations on the game's usual areas. There's a fine balance to strike though, and I know most people think Unleashed missed that mark (I haven't played a full new game since it released so I can't say) but the idea at least is one I don't really object to. The thing with Lost World was that there wasn't really any of that to it, it was just "replay the stages or little mini games until you hit this particular number."
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Sep 24, 2020 09:06
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Doctor_Fruitbat posted:On that front at least, I'm pretty hopeful. Since Mania came out they've clearly realised the kind of talent they have access to, and given us a refreshed comic series, a bunch of animated projects they didn't need to do (I mean what even prompted Chao in Space?), brought in a ringer to smooth over the movie, and, most promisingly, added Tangle and Whisper to both mobile games, a treatment that no other spin-off character has gotten. Maaaaaaybe, but it seems likely that all of that post-mania stuff emerged from Sega of America, which still has a distinct existence from Sega of Japan. Still, there is definitely optimism in them continuing to engage Hesse and Lopes for various projects.
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Sep 24, 2020 10:08
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The best part of forces is the odd red black and beige UI, I really like it The issue people clocked earlier around weird gameplay gimmicks/ replaying levels is that it must be a huge cost to make Sonic levels- they're massive racetracks. Unleashed looked gorgeous and its day levels were fantastic, but it's miles upon miles of road to create. You don't have that issue with a slower platformer
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Sep 24, 2020 10:40
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Skeletome posted:The best part of forces is the odd red black and beige UI, I really like it Yeah, I think people at sonic team said that themselves around the time of Unleashed Honestly with unleased in particular if they'd just split the beat em up stages in two so each individual one wasn't overly long, increased movement speed in them, and had you play as Knuckles (just have the stretchy limbs be a stylistic thing) instead of doing the werehog I think people generally would've been more receptive to the whole thing
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Sep 24, 2020 10:52
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Yeah, Modern Sonic is just, above all else, So Weird, as has been said it's like nobody really has any idea what they're doing and they're just Trying Stuff and suddenly corporate shows up and decides that we're getting a game to mark an important anniversary so gently caress it ship it. The thing is though, someone over there clearly has some sort of vision, because, I mean, look at Forces, just literally look at it (and listen). The game has a style and an aesthetic. That doesn't just Happen in video games, somebody thought it all the way through. The content was kind of a pile in the end but my point is that at least some part of the production had some idea what the hell they were trying to produce. The problem 3D Sonic always has is that it doesn't scale and something always has to give. Those stages are huge and for some reason they insist on doing bespoke art for the whole thing, so we wind up having to economise environments for content (There's an anecdote somewhere that Dragon Road is by area the size of Skyrim, which I'd love to see a source on but frankly I could believe it as is). So for, say, Sonic 2006 we got the scale and basically nothing else, and everything except for the visuals was pretty much non-functional, and in Unleashed we got this egregious time padding in nine of the most beautiful environments ever to grace gaming. In Generations we more or less got the same thing except the thing they used to pad out the time was a lot more fun even if it was also a tiny bit janky, but it was completely on-brand. One of the many reasons Colours is so great is because it was one of the best attempts we've yet seen to try and rework how 3D Sonic games are made in a way that makes any kind of economic sense while still allowing it to offer the same kinds of experience we're used to getting from it. Not by accident was it set entirely in a theme park in space, where it made complete sense for relatively simplistic, repetitive chunks of environment to be floating in a void; it turns out when you don't have to painstakingly realize every passing rock you can get a lot more of the important work done, and the result is a game that's fun, played entirely as Sonic, feels full, is unique and characteristic and into the bargain is made in a style that turns out to scale amazingly well when uprezzed. Lost World is a similar sort of endeavour (made in a way that's economical with artist-hours but delivers nice looking environments) but which maybe didn't turn out as well. The Forces flavour of all that was that they went back into the detail direction but because of the lack of any real vision beyond the aesthetic we wound up getting fragments and bits and pieces of the incredible environments they made. Unleashed and Generations and Colours and to a lesser extent Lost World worked as well as they did because even though they took different directions regarding the economy of it all they knew what they were trying to make and what they would be having Sonic do in all these environments and produced it all in something resembling a planned-out manner. There's all kinds of places they could go from here but all of them would require them to choose something and then stick with it for a couple years, and, worse, would require them to iterate on it over a couple titles instead of jumping about between styles and design approaches like it seems they have been, like, I don't care if you pick Unleashed or Colours or Lost World or Generations as your template just pick one and make three more. Anyway I eagerly await Sonic's pivot to open world.
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Sep 24, 2020 11:59
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beep by grandpa posted:so we've reached the end and finished Sonic 2... look at Tails in grayscale with his tiny mates
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Sep 24, 2020 12:02
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