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Edgar Allen Ho posted:We make fun of Jesse Plemons for getting fat, but he’s married to Kirsten Dunst so Kirsten Dunst is #canceled for cultural appropriation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0X3CLJVMJU Alright maybe not but she's not a very good singer
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Sep 26, 2020 16:27
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Roblo posted:Oh. Bummer. No sex with the aliens then. You could always settle for a clawjob, which would make an excellent name for a Bond villain
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Sep 26, 2020 16:28
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Isn’t that song about jerking off?
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Sep 26, 2020 16:29
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TK-42-1 posted:Isn’t that song about jerking off? Yeah it’s not about appropriation it’s just racist
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Sep 26, 2020 16:44
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Vulgar posted:You could always settle for a clawjob, which would make an excellent name for a Bond villain Well I was more referring to "they probably have crabs" making it risky. But yeh a clawjob works too.
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Sep 26, 2020 19:38
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Helith posted:It took us a while (and reading the credits) to work out that This guy is not a fat Matt Damon. You just reminded me of the old guy who played Walker, Texas Ranger's sidekick, Noble Willingham: AKA Can't Afford Brimley
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Sep 26, 2020 20:52
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TK-42-1 posted:Isn’t that song about jerking off? I looked it up, and apparently it's not supposed to be. https://www.songfacts.com/facts/the-vapors/turning-japanese BaldDwarfOnPCP posted:Yeah it’s not about appropriation it’s just racist I'm not sure whether or not this makes it ok, but apparently the song did pretty well in Japan. And also the Kirsten Dunst video was produced by this guy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takashi_Murakami edit: ...who apparently started a whole art movement criticising Japanese pop culture consumerism, otakus, and anime sexualisation. Including making a figurine of a naked anime man jizzing a lasso. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lonesome_Cowboy That loving owns. Hyperlynx has a new favorite as of 03:07 on Sep 27, 2020 |
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Sep 27, 2020 03:01
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Hyperlynx posted:I looked it up, and apparently it's not supposed to be. He's probably most famous in the states for doing the album art for a pretty good Kanye album.
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Sep 27, 2020 06:29
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Holy poo poo, the old timey english word for tefillin ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tefillin ) is loving phylactery. You know, the thing fantasy liches use to stay alive? Liche, jew, same thing.
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Sep 27, 2020 06:33
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Eeeeh...... quote:from Old French filatiere (12c.) and directly from Medieval Latin philaterium, from Late Latin phylacterium "reliquary," from Greek phylacterion "safeguard, amulet; a post for watchmen," noun use of neuter of adjective phylaktērios "serving as a protection," from phylaktēr "watcher, guard," from phylassein "to guard or ward off," from phylax (genitive phylakos) "guardian, watcher, protector," a word of unknown origin; Beekes writes that, based on the suffix -ax, "the word may well be pre-Greek." They both guard your soul, in a way - and it'd kinda defeat the purpose of a lich's phylactery to go tying it to their person  Very odd word choice though. I wouldn't guess it was inspired by his scholarly understanding of Latin.
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Sep 27, 2020 14:19
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Holy poo poo, the old timey english word for tefillin ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tefillin ) is loving phylactery. You know, the thing fantasy liches use to stay alive? This one's not to do with "old timey english", it's because of Gary Gygax using "phylactery" to mean a liche's life force thingy. Although the way we get there does involve some weird othering: mediaeval people thought "phylacteries" were magical and could prevent bad things from happening, which is why we talk about medical prophylaxis or call condoms prophylactics. Liches as in the dead wizard things were also invented by Gygax; before him it just meant "corpse" (although Clark Ashton Smith uses it for a dead guy brought back to life, iirc). Lich is an old word; the little churchyard gates with roofs are called "lych-gates", and it's also where the title of this song comes from: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q88svqsTgYQ
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Sep 27, 2020 15:00
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Hyperlynx posted:
I saw the Murakami exhibit when it came to Dallas, it owned
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Sep 27, 2020 15:08
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my Thing I Can't Believe I Just Figured Out is either that phylactery and tefillin have been synonyms for a long time, or that fantasy bullshit has conflated tefillin and phylacteries, sorry for incorrectly attributing modern englishquote:Tefillin (Askhenazic: /ˈtfɪlɪn/; Israeli Hebrew: [tfiˈlin], תְּפִלִּין or תְּפִילִּין) or phylacteries My thing is that I didn't know the jewish religious practice had ever been connected to the unkillable fantasy creature and had never heard of tefillin referred to as phylacteries, less that I didn't know the etymology of phylactery and liche. Tefillin as I've always known them are where we cover up our horns. e: I didn't mean to exactly repeat myself but I hope this makes sense. Edgar Allen Ho has a new favorite as of 16:07 on Sep 27, 2020 |
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Sep 27, 2020 16:00
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:My thing is that I didn't know the jewish religious practice had ever been connected to the unkillable fantasy creature and had never heard of tefillin referred to as phylacteries, less that I didn't know the etymology of phylactery and liche. Tefillin as I've always known them are where we cover up our horns. Yeah I get that. I was just burbling on cos the connection is super tenuous, but interesting.
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Sep 27, 2020 17:28
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Safety Biscuits posted:Yeah I get that. I was just burbling on cos the connection is super tenuous, but interesting. There have been previous fantasy stories involving similar concepts but the lich's use of phylactery were entirely made up by Gary Gygax. It was a conscious decision on his part to tie the evil magic to an obscure term from Judaism.
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Sep 28, 2020 00:47
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rodbeard posted:There have been previous fantasy stories involving similar concepts but the lich's use of phylactery were entirely made up by Gary Gygax. It was a conscious decision on his part to tie the evil magic to an obscure term from Judaism. 
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Sep 28, 2020 00:53
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Wikipedia says:quote:The English word "phylactery" ("phylacteries" in the plural) derives from Ancient Greek φυλακτήριον phylaktērion (φυλακτήρια phylaktēria in the plural), meaning "guarded post, safeguard, security", and in later Greek, "amulet" or "charm".[11][12] The word "phylactery" occurs once (in ACC PL) in the Greek New Testament,[13] whence it has passed into the languages of Europe.[4] rodbeard posted:There have been previous fantasy stories involving similar concepts but the lich's use of phylactery were entirely made up by Gary Gygax. It was a conscious decision on his part to tie the evil magic to an obscure term from Judaism. Dang. Was he antisemitic in general?
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Sep 28, 2020 01:31
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Hyperlynx posted:Wikipedia says: Is it antisemetic? I feel like it falls into the same space as walking mummies and whatnot.
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Sep 28, 2020 02:02
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TK-42-1 posted:Is it antisemetic? I feel like it falls into the same space as walking mummies and whatnot. One is from a long-dead culture that is popularly thought of very positively, the other is from a living culture that has a long history of being murdered for (amongst other things) its religious rituals being linked with evil. I don't think it's enough to say he's the actively hates jews kind of antisemitic but it's pretty inconsiderate at best to tie non-jews' associations of a word used for an extremely holy object to a super evil bad thing.
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Sep 28, 2020 02:10
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I'm just imagining lich versions of the Orthodox guys who go around New York asking everyone "are you Jewish?"
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Sep 28, 2020 02:17
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Wouldn't surprise me if he was anti-semitic.
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Sep 28, 2020 02:18
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On the one side, the word 'phylactery' has several meanings outside of Judaism and more than one within D&D, if you really wanna dive deep. On the other side, the in-game meaning refers specifically to an amulet worn as a ward and was almost definitely inspired by tefillin; using that word for the box an unkillable evil wizard's soul lives in is probably a symptom of something dreadful, yeah. flakeloaf has a new favorite as of 02:29 on Sep 28, 2020 |
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Sep 28, 2020 02:23
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Len posted:Wouldn't surprise me if he was anti-semitic. Idgi. Sounds pretty Old Testament God to me. Unless that's the point you're making? E: flakeloaf posted:I don't have a dog in the race so don't think I'm going to bat for the sainted Gygax, cause if a white guy who was successful in the 70s was rumoured to have a problem Jewish people then yeah, he probably did and gently caress him for it, but the word 'phylactery' has several meanings outside of Judaism and more than one within D&D, if you really wanna dive deep. I'd be keen to hear examples. I've only ever seen lich-derived ones, myself. Eg https://planetside.fandom.com/wiki/Implants#Phylactery . I'd be surprised if Daybreak Games even knew Gygax invented it, let alone that it's not merely a "resurrect the (un)dead" thing. Hyperlynx has a new favorite as of 02:30 on Sep 28, 2020 |
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Sep 28, 2020 02:25
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Today I learned that Howard Cosell is dead. 
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Sep 28, 2020 02:26
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Hyperlynx posted:Idgi. Sounds pretty Old Testament God to me. Unless that's the point you're making? He referenced a guy known for massacring native Americans as an example of a lawful good paladin
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Sep 28, 2020 02:29
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Len posted:He referenced a guy known for massacring native Americans as an example of a lawful good paladin Who? Chivington? I don't know who that is, and I'm not sure he's making that case here. If you're referring to Custer, that's not actually what he's saying, he's just mentioned him in passing in establishing who Wooden Leg is.
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Sep 28, 2020 02:33
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Hyperlynx posted:Who? Chivington? I don't know who that is, and I'm not sure he's making that case here. Yes Chivington. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Chivington?wprov=sfla1 Chivington posted:drat any man who sympathizes with Indians! ... I have come to kill Indians, and believe it is right and honorable to use any means under God's heaven to kill Indians. ... Kill and scalp all, big and little; nits make lice. He could probably have found a better person to quote to prove that point. But you're right Gary probably isn't a bad person
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Sep 28, 2020 02:36
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Phlegmish posted:Kirsten Dunst is #canceled for cultural appropriation I never understand how to define cultural appropriation. My father's first language was Croatian. His side of the family is ethnic German. My other side is Norwegian and a mix of Polish and Yankee British. There's some Dutch in there too. I like to sing in Rom. Specifically Hungarian style which is also in my family. I grew up around Finns, Ojibwe, and Slovak ethnic groups. At this point, as a born and bred American, I'm pretty sure I'm appropriating American culture if I do American things. #cancelled
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Sep 28, 2020 02:40
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mostlygray posted:I never understand how to define cultural appropriation. Are you profiting of another's culture while not including the members of that culture? Youre probably fine singing songs because you like them.
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Sep 28, 2020 02:45
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Len posted:Yes Chivington. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Chivington?wprov=sfla1 Right, gotcha.
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Sep 28, 2020 02:46
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YeahTubaMike posted:Today I learned that Howard Cosell is dead. He'd be 102 if he wasn't
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Sep 28, 2020 03:01
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Henchman of Santa posted:He'd be 102 if he wasn't I somehow thought he was like 75. I wondered if I was mistaking him for someone else, but when I looked him up on Wikipedia (which is how I learned that he was dead), he was indeed the "down goes Frazier" guy.
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Sep 28, 2020 03:07
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mostlygray posted:I never understand how to define cultural appropriation. There's a technical definition about whether you're mixing someone else's culture with your own or just borrowing it wholesale but in ~the discourse~ is just means white people doing non-white things.
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Sep 28, 2020 03:11
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Hyperlynx posted:I'd be keen to hear examples. I've only ever seen lich-derived ones, myself. Eg https://planetside.fandom.com/wiki/Implants#Phylactery . I'd be surprised if Daybreak Games even knew Gygax invented it, let alone that it's not merely a "resurrect the (un)dead" thing. A FR Wiki entry certainly makes it sound as though the lich source is the original, if you approach it while on the hunt for a smoking wand: quote:In D&D, a phylactery was first mentioned in relation to a lich in the 1st-edition Monster Manual (1977), but from this it is not clear what the phylactery is or why it is necessary. In 1979, "Blueprint For A Lich" in Dragon #26 first detailed the process of achieving lichdom, but referred instead to a "jar"; it's not clear if this is meant to be the same as the phylactery or not. This jar concept takes after numerous legends and stories of mages and villains who store their souls, hearts, life, or death in some object in order to cheat death. According to research by Buzz, here, the Endless Quest gamebook Lair of the Lich (1985) was the first to link the lich's phylactery to the soul-jar concept, perhaps based on a misunderstanding of what a phylactery is. Since then, the term "phylactery" seems to have become generally associated with liches and soul jars, both within D&D and across fantasy fiction. It wasn't until the 3rd-edition Monster Manual (2000) that the typical lich's phylactery was described in terms inspired by the various real-world historical phylacteries. The article stops generously short of equating the soul jar with the aforementioned-but-conveniently-undescribed phylactery; in this day and age I think it's fair to presume those are one and the same. The Lair of the Lich story is corroborated by RPG Museum, who ascribes the story to prolific fantasy writer Bruce Algozin, a man whom Google tells me isn't associated with accusations of antisemitism. quote:Games like D&D often use the term phylactery for soul jars. However, this term also refers to the tefillin, leather boxes that contain script from the Torah and are ceremonial objects in Judaism. As such, using the term for an evil artifact is potentially (if accidentally) anti-Semitic. The term phylactery was first used with respect to liches in the 1st edition Monster Manual in 1977, but at that time it was a passing reference as an item that allowed liches to retain their minds and free will in undeath. The term was tied explicitly to soul jars in an Endless Quest book (choose your own adventure book) called Lair of the Lich by Bruce Algozin RPGM also claims that the original 1977 D&D phylactery was "a passing reference as an item that allowed liches to retain their minds and free will in undeath", and points out that D&D is the only tabletop RPG to use the word "phylactery" to describe a lich's soul jar. The other in-universe items called phylacteries (e.g., the Phylactery of Some Desirable Trait) were headbands that people tied around their foreheads to do magic with. The FR Wiki describes exactly as one would describe a real-world Jewish tefillah, before going full-yikes on us: quote:Two kinds of phylactery were common. The first were wrappings inscribed with holy text or verses, while the second were small containers of any shape or size (such as a tube or a small black box). They were typically worn tied around the forehead or wrist, or wrapped around the upper arm or thigh. They were usually small enough to concealed in one's hand or about one's person if the wearer feared theft. A phylactery itself typically had no magical and little monetary value. Rather, its value lay in the importance of its contents to the wearer's faith, or its own intrinsic value. However, a number of phylacteries were noted for their magical power. Such magical items were usually worn around the head and were associated with morale and alignment. Bruh. TL;DR, it would appear that Bruce Algozin, while writing the fantasy that inspired TTRPGs and vice-versa, connected the two terms and TSR game designers just ran with it, and somewhere along the lines a soul jar became a box with prayers inside it, literally equating Jewish tefillin with the box that holds the remnant of a usually-evil wizard's soul. I'm not sure where Algozin got the word from or why he chose to use it, but with that out there, I'll guess he wishes he hadn't. flakeloaf has a new favorite as of 04:07 on Sep 28, 2020 |
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Sep 28, 2020 03:12
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Hyperlynx posted:Idgi. Sounds pretty Old Testament God to me. Unless that's the point you're making?
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Sep 28, 2020 03:20
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rodbeard posted:There have been previous fantasy stories involving similar concepts but the lich's use of phylactery were entirely made up by Gary Gygax. It was a conscious decision on his part to tie the evil magic to an obscure term from Judaism. The question is whether he did so knowing that it was related to Judaism or just picked a word he didn't know the etymology of. While I find the former depressingly plausible, I'd like to see a source if you're saying it's certain; google isn't helping much.
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Sep 28, 2020 03:27
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See my edit, specifically the part about the polyvalent meaning of 'phylactery' literally defining a lich's soul jar as an object fitting the description of a tefillah
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Sep 28, 2020 03:32
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Thank you for that, that's all very interesting. I had thought it might be coincidence, since (Wikipedia says) phylacteries were just charms in general, in usage in different cultures. And it just so happens that that specific word was used to describe tefillin in the New Testament, and just so happens to be the word picked for the English translation of tefillin itself (cf. "synagogue"). But modelling these D&D charms on the Jewish tefillin specifically is... not great. Even at its kindest interpretation, that would at the very least be cultural appropriation (to tie two thread topics together).
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Sep 28, 2020 03:53
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Now we just need a photo of Kirsten Dunst with a headband that has a picture of Howard Cosell inside. For content: It's "one AND the same", as in, we count one, then we count and to lead us to another thing, and point at the thing we just counted to draw emphasis to its oneness. "One IN the same", as in, it's a thing contained completely inside of another that is identical, makes no grammatical sense and is a mistake created by poor enunciation.
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Sep 28, 2020 04:10
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It's weird seeing people give Gygax the benefit of the doubt in this day and age. He's specifically quoting a man whose act of genocide was so barbaric even other outspoken racists of his time criticized him for it and saying that the sentiment is correct. You don't spend your whole life studying history and warfare and then accidentally quote an outspoken white supremacist defending himself after killing an entire village of natives and then carving up their bodies as trophies.
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Sep 28, 2020 04:47
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