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Weebus posted:I've never had to go hunting spiders, missing person contracts at forested villages usually throw boatloads of them at you. Hyenas are a bit more of a pain but you can still occasionally find massive packs of them roaming the deserts. Direwolves on the other hand seem to just vanish after the early game. Once in a while you'll find some with witches and that's it. I rarely get them in the late game, just 32 stacks of nacherzersersers. Do beasthunters find more beasts? I think it's just the extra parts(which is nice), and that economy nerf seems hard. Forced snake oil salesmen  Edit:  Nevermind TheBeardyCleaver fucked around with this message at 14:50 on Sep 26, 2020 |
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Sep 26, 2020 14:48
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Weebus posted:I do wonder where goblins get their wolves from. Those ones are noticably smaller and weaker than direwolves. Makes sense that your bros don't bother getting their pelts. Do they not? poo poo, i don't think i've noticed.
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Sep 26, 2020 21:26
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Yeah if the wolves had direwolf stats it'd be a much stiffer fight. I've noticed landing a killing blow on a fleeing cavalry wolf, and the goblin who jumps off is merely pissed off not fleeing.
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Sep 26, 2020 21:37
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So. I decided to start a new game on expert combat difficulty (still keeping veteran economy). Playing peasants again, on a new seed I found that has a really good map layout and good starting peasants. It's day 3, and I've done pretty well for myself as far as initial outfitting goes - kept 6 starters, hired another 2, I now have 4 front liners, 3 ranged bros in the back with a mix of slings and a bow; and a sergeant candidate that is sitting in the back with one of those polearm-spears (which apparently don't work the way I thought, you don't seem to be able to spearwall from 2 hexes away). All my guys in armour ranging from 55-65 in front, 30-50 in the back line. I take a simple 1 skull caravan escort to the next village over. So far I've been ambushed 4 times. the first 2 were small groups of thugs - similar numbers to my company. No problem. The second group however. Oh boy. It's day 3 and I'm up against 5 raiders and 2 thugs. That was ugly - 2 of the raiders have polearms; 1 has a 2h hammer (the crap kind of course, but it's still not nice on day 3). the other 2 raiders have tier 2 spears and no shield. It took me half a dozen attempts but I finally managed to kill them without losing anyone (of mine that is - the entire compliment of caravan hands bravely sacrificed themselves by eating hooked blades to the face). If it wasn't for them taking hits from those polearms instead of me I'd have been stuffed. Lucky as well we were in forest which broke up the enemy. So I finally got through that; and now I get a fourth ambush - 9; mix of thugs and poachers. Should be much easier than the last battle thankfully; but I really wish I was getting paid per head. Edit: Thugs and poachers didn't stand a chance. The Lord Bude fucked around with this message at 03:10 on Sep 27, 2020 |
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Sep 27, 2020 03:01
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The Lord Bude posted:So. I decided to start a new game on expert combat difficulty (still keeping veteran economy). Playing peasants again, on a new seed I found that has a really good map layout and good starting peasants. It's day 3, and I've done pretty well for myself as far as initial outfitting goes - kept 6 starters, hired another 2, I now have 4 front liners, 3 ranged bros in the back with a mix of slings and a bow; and a sergeant candidate that is sitting in the back with one of those polearm-spears (which apparently don't work the way I thought, you don't seem to be able to spearwall from 2 hexes away). All my guys in armour ranging from 55-65 in front, 30-50 in the back line. Now you have good weapons and loads of XP  But yes, the expert start is quite a bit rougher. With Veteran economy you should be snowballing very well by day 20 I think.
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Sep 27, 2020 12:11
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TheBeardyCleaver posted:Now you have good weapons and loads of XP Yeah I'm at day 33 now. I have 10 in my company, and so far it doesn't really feel different compared to veteran other than that one random caravan mission that was hosed; which was just luck I guess. I haven't been quite as fortunate in my hiring as last run, but I lucked out on day 19 - I took one of those missions to retrieve an artefact, and I got the random event where I could take it and leave or grab a weapon and fight ancient dead - I wound up with a nice day 19 warscythe and all I had to do to get it was piss off a piddling little nothing village and kill some easily defeated auxiliaries.
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Sep 27, 2020 14:28
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The Lord Bude posted:Yeah I'm at day 33 now. I have 10 in my company, and so far it doesn't really feel different compared to veteran other than that one random caravan mission that was hosed; which was just luck I guess. Fought the Orc Warlord after much farting about in the middle of nowhere eradicating strongholds. I do wish it was a bit more epic. Fighting 30 goblins with shamans and overseers is a far stretch harder than that "horde" of 20 orc warriors with some goblin peashooters. Bastard didn't even have a named weapon.
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Sep 27, 2020 14:37
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Yo I got back into this after hearing about the new dlc and then realized that I dropped it after lindwurm was released. So I bought the next two dlcs first to get fresh with the game again before going for the newest stuff I've been using FilthyRobot's builds and general content to get back into the swing of things so I'm mostly good but small things still come up along the way. Is the late-game "meta" still having a bunch of 2h guys in your force except against gobbos? I remember needing the 2h DPR to beat any of the serious late-game fights. Where the heck do you find a whip? I've been all over the place at day 50ish and haven't seen a single one yet.
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Sep 27, 2020 18:35
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Tin Tim posted:Yo I got back into this after hearing about the new dlc and then realized that I dropped it after lindwurm was released. So I bought the next two dlcs first to get fresh with the game again before going for the newest stuff If you’ve got the blazing deserts dlc they’re common in the south - nomads often carry them. If you’ve only got warriors of the north then sadly they’re quite rare but you’ll see one turn up in a weaponsmith eventually.
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Sep 27, 2020 18:55
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Tin Tim posted:Is the late-game "meta" still having a bunch of 2h guys in your force except against gobbos? I remember needing the 2h DPR to beat any of the serious late-game fights. Kind of. You're definitely going to still need that dps but the game has been patched to sort of decouple 2h guys from indomitable - used to be able to take a 2h swing for six AP then indom for 3; indom now costs 4 ap so it's not possible to do without berserk proccing. I've found each successive DLC to emphasive non-core stats more and more, resolve especially. 2h slayers are no longer the defacto best unit (tank AND DPS) on the field, you'll need to cover for them in long battles through rotate, taunt or other means. I've found my DPS now comes mainly from a mix of 2h bros, swordlance aoes, and throwing specialists.
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Sep 27, 2020 19:30
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I trained a big group of snakes into a patrol and man the southern troops don't give a poo poo Assassins throw down firepots on the snakes and the guys they pulled in, who burn to death because they were almost dead from snake bites. Then they start rotating their own guys into the still burning fire.
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Sep 27, 2020 20:06
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Must be nice being able to blow that much money on a snake fight, loving southerners 
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Sep 27, 2020 22:26
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e: wrong thread
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Sep 27, 2020 22:34
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rideANDxORdie posted:Kind of. You're definitely going to still need that dps but the game has been patched to sort of decouple 2h guys from indomitable - used to be able to take a 2h swing for six AP then indom for 3; indom now costs 4 ap so it's not possible to do without berserk proccing. I've found each successive DLC to emphasive non-core stats more and more, resolve especially. 2h slayers are no longer the defacto best unit (tank AND DPS) on the field, you'll need to cover for them in long battles through rotate, taunt or other means. I've found my DPS now comes mainly from a mix of 2h bros, swordlance aoes, and throwing specialists. And duelists. Don't forget the duelists. Because I like bespoke elitist builds damnit. (Actually don't go out of your way to make one if you've been out of it for a while, they'll likely dissapoint. Unless they don't ) On that note, has anyone found any useful way to build an orc axe duelist? That stamina cost seems prohibitive but if there ever was a way to build a headhunter that has to be it. One hit kill and then recover? I dunno. I have a couple of guys that are ~100 Fat in heavy armour so should be able to get off a couple of swings. There is this one bro that I haven't quite decided on a weapon for, but he has close to the stats for being a duelist.
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Sep 28, 2020 01:55
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I don’t think a duelist will disappoint; at least not unless you make something really niche like a fencer. A duelist with a mace; particularly if you find a named mace with really good stats does insane amounts of single target damage through armour, and that has an important use alongside the AoEs from a 2hander. My mace duelist in my old save was a hair short of one shotting honour guards.
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Sep 28, 2020 05:01
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I don't understand people that don't like fencers, I've taken them to fights like Goblin City or Black Monolith and they always overperform. Their only downside is that you need some pretty specific stats to get going. And again, they are really drat fun.
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Sep 28, 2020 05:04
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Broken Cog posted:I don't understand people that don't like fencers, I've taken them to fights like Goblin City or Black Monolith and they always overperform. I don’t like them because there is an infinitesimally small use case where they outperform other builds that are more broadly useful. I can’t justify spending wages on someone that’s going to sit in reserve 95% of the time. Large packs of goblins are the only scenario where they clearly outperform other options, and even then it’s dicey because if there are shamans then they can’t actually use lunge effectively and they get super fatigued which eliminates the damage bonus (which btw tops out at I think 1.5x and even that requires very high initiative). Even vs goblins they don’t clearly outperform a qatal dagger; or any other duelist; or even an extra warscythe or archer. I certainly wouldn’t take them to an ancient dead fight; ancient dead have substantial damage resistance to piercing weapons.
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Sep 28, 2020 07:47
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I didn't know your mother had a legendary weapon named after her.
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Sep 28, 2020 08:20
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The Lord Bude posted:I don’t like them because there is an infinitesimally small use case where they outperform other builds that are more broadly useful. I can’t justify spending wages on someone that’s going to sit in reserve 95% of the time. Large packs of goblins are the only scenario where they clearly outperform other options, and even then it’s dicey because if there are shamans then they can’t actually use lunge effectively and they get super fatigued which eliminates the damage bonus (which btw tops out at I think 1.5x and even that requires very high initiative). Even vs goblins they don’t clearly outperform a qatal dagger; or any other duelist; or even an extra warscythe or archer. Also, AD do weird stuff with their formations if you have a guy flanking.
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Sep 28, 2020 08:59
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Broken Cog posted:Nah, fencers can handle AD just fine, mostly because the fencing sword is likely slashing, not piercing damage (and they oneshot when they hit hp anyway, and that's the only part of the AD that is piercing resistant). what do you require before you build one and how do you build them? when I try I run out of perks, I feel like I am missing something.
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Sep 28, 2020 18:34
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I think you can make duelists work with a variety of weapons. I'm actually yet to make a mace duelist, since I usually have a bunch of mace/shield tanks, but my last game had a really effective unique orc cleaver duelist and a really effect warhammer duelist--you'd think this is redundant since the hammer already deals significant through-armour damage, but if anything it just seemed to make the hammer way better. With the added damage from double grip and the added through-armour penetration of duelist, the guy could wreck any enemy in heavy armour. Honour guards and chosen would go down in like two hits. And since I was playing peasants, I would just leave him on the bench for fights against unarmoured enemies. Now I'm running a qatal dagger duelist and he's also amazing, especially with the bonus AP from the Viper gladiator ability.
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Sep 28, 2020 19:12
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I even have good luck with sword duelists sometimes, too. The new stuff on Shamshirs actually makes them surprisingly capable at injuring big, hard targets sometimes.
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Sep 28, 2020 19:19
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stopgap1 posted:what do you require before you build one and how do you build them? when I try I run out of perks, I feel like I am missing something. The most important stats for a fencer are MA, MD and Init. You ideally want good stars in Matk and Init, while Mdef can manage with decent starting stats (since backgrounds that have good stats for a fencer also often have good base stats in MD) and a few lucky rolls. For perks, I usually go Student first, but I do that on everyone. Then I take Dodge, Colossus, Relentless, Sword Mastery, Pathfinder, Nimble, Recover, Duelist, Berserker and Killing Frenzy. You may want to just give them a normal sword and board until they have nimble and recover as they are very squishy up to that point. Once you pick up Duelist you can usually remove their shield, as their MD and dodge should be able to carry them at that point. You also really want someone with good enough stats so you don't have to take Gifted on them, as they are pretty perk starved as it is.
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Sep 28, 2020 19:51
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The Lord Bude posted:fencing sword stuff (which btw tops out at I think 1.5x and even that requires very high initiative).
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Sep 28, 2020 20:43
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Broken Cog posted:The most important stats for a fencer are MA, MD and Init. You ideally want good stars in Matk and Init, while Mdef can manage with decent starting stats (since backgrounds that have good stats for a fencer also often have good base stats in MD) and a few lucky rolls. Can fencers work without underdog? I thought their main use was lunging at squishy/annoying backliners like beastmasters and archers. Wouldn't doing that leave them surrounded and vulnerable?
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Sep 28, 2020 21:08
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Weebus posted:Can fencers work without underdog? I thought their main use was lunging at squishy/annoying backliners like beastmasters and archers. Wouldn't doing that leave them surrounded and vulnerable? I never take underdog on fencers, as they are usually at the edges of the fight, and rarely get surrounded. If they do, it's often possible to leap away, and if they end up in a really bad spot, I can usually manage to rotate them out since I like to pick up rotation on all my frontliners.
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Sep 28, 2020 21:15
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That makes sense, but I'm still too much of a wuss to not pick underdog on a melee guy
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Sep 28, 2020 21:23
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I like fencers a lot. My Quatal dagger guy also uses a fencing sword, and I use that far more. It's not even named (not that the dagger is). I also take him to every fight and his kill score is among the top in the company. Note that I have shamelessly given my guys an extra perk point per 5 levels at this point, so that I can be exited about level ups again. I thus have a dagger/sword master which is a bit broken. Dagger mastery would be great on anyone with 2h weapons as well as it would give you a secondary attack, but i digress. The guy does not have underdog, though he does have footwork so that he can piss off when things get hairy. Wish I could get the Davkul armour, but that's not likely in this run, because cultists.
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Sep 29, 2020 00:15
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rideANDxORdie posted:Kind of. You're definitely going to still need that dps but the game has been patched to sort of decouple 2h guys from indomitable - used to be able to take a 2h swing for six AP then indom for 3; indom now costs 4 ap so it's not possible to do without berserk proccing. I've found each successive DLC to emphasive non-core stats more and more, resolve especially. 2h slayers are no longer the defacto best unit (tank AND DPS) on the field, you'll need to cover for them in long battles through rotate, taunt or other means. I've found my DPS now comes mainly from a mix of 2h bros, swordlance aoes, and throwing specialists. The Lord Bude posted:If you’ve only got warriors of the north then sadly they’re quite rare but you’ll see one turn up in a weaponsmith eventually.  yeah seems that way. Made it to the first crisis and still haven't seen one show up in a smithy
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Sep 29, 2020 13:37
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Tin Tim posted:Thanks for the info! For what it's worth this has been probably the best expansion in terms of stuff added so you should probably get blazing deserts.
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Sep 29, 2020 13:46
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So I'm goofing around with different build ideas and I'm looking at duelists. Is there an opinion on hammer vs mace? The warhammer seems pretty amazing at 30-40 base damage with 50% pen and 225% armor damage. With duelist, that ends up like 37 - 50 with 28 - 37 of that going straight to HP, minus 10% of the remaining armor which the hammer just shreds. But then I'm watching a FilthyRobots stream and he's all "hammers are trash, complete garbage, utterly worthless, worst weapon in the game" while chat tries to get him to use one. Am I missing something on how that calcs out? Winged maces are 35 - 55 base, which turns into 43 - 68 double-gripped with 27 - 44 ignoring armor. That's a bit more than the warhammer but the hammer does fuckloads more armor damage so has less of a reduction from what remains compared to the mace. They both seem pretty strong. Like if we look at fighting a raider in 115 armor, a hit from a hammer duelist is going to take off between 84 - 112 armor. That leaves between 0 - 3 damage reduction. Applied to penetration damage, you're looking at 25 - 37 and the opponent has almost no armor left after one hit. Mace is doing 48 - 75 armor damage, so a damage reduction of 4 - 6. So, 21 - 40 gets through, after reduction. The mace can potentially do slightly more but on average they have roughly equal penetration at 31 for hammer and 30 for mace. For a hit on an Orc warrior with 300 armor: Hammer: 188 - 216 armor remaining, 18 - 21 hp damage reduction, 4 - 19 hp damage penetration Mace: 225 - 252 armor remaining, 22 - 25 hp damage reduction, 2 - 22 hp damage penetration Again, damage done through armor averages out almost exactly the same. I suppose I could game out encounters on paper and figure out average # hits to kill for each in different cases but this is already too much calculator time for me. Anyway. Maybe its just best to spec one or the other based on finding a good famed weapon....
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Sep 29, 2020 23:15
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800peepee51doodoo posted:So I'm goofing around with different build ideas and I'm looking at duelists. Is there an opinion on hammer vs mace? The warhammer seems pretty amazing at 30-40 base damage with 50% pen and 225% armor damage. With duelist, that ends up like 37 - 50 with 28 - 37 of that going straight to HP, minus 10% of the remaining armor which the hammer just shreds. But then I'm watching a FilthyRobots stream and he's all "hammers are trash, complete garbage, utterly worthless, worst weapon in the game" while chat tries to get him to use one. Am I missing something on how that calcs out? Winged maces are 35 - 55 base, which turns into 43 - 68 double-gripped with 27 - 44 ignoring armor. That's a bit more than the warhammer but the hammer does fuckloads more armor damage so has less of a reduction from what remains compared to the mace. They both seem pretty strong. According to the incredibly in-depth perk guide mace and hammer are roughly equal and more or less tied for second best duelist after orc weapons. The same guy also did experiments with every duelist weapon if you want lots of tables and numbers.
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Sep 29, 2020 23:37
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vyelkin posted:According to the incredibly in-depth perk guide mace and hammer are roughly equal and more or less tied for second best duelist after orc weapons. Heh, yeah, I just started looking at that guide today. I didn't realize they did a whole breakdown like that, though. Interesting that military cleaver is that high and I'm honestly surprised to see the three-headed flail just under orc cleaver. It has such a variable damage output.
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Sep 29, 2020 23:43
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800peepee51doodoo posted:Heh, yeah, I just started looking at that guide today. I didn't realize they did a whole breakdown like that, though. Interesting that military cleaver is that high and I'm honestly surprised to see the three-headed flail just under orc cleaver. It has such a variable damage output. If you read the fine print, the 3-headed flail is solely using lash to concentrate all damage to the head and the cleaver stats are based on including bleed damage and using decapitate once the enemy's below 50% health. The author's conclusion is that mace and hammer are generally better because they do more burst damage and less DOT, which means the enemy dies faster, and because you're just using your regular attack over and over again they're much less fatigue-intensive. They also do more damage per hit and through armour, which means more injuries. So even though the overall damage from those other weapons might be slightly better, the overall pros and cons still fall in favour of maces and hammers.
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Sep 29, 2020 23:46
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Ah, I see that now. I am glad to see that my intuition/past experience is validated and that hammers are good, actually. Super weird that one of the better known streamers of this game shits on them so hard. I mean, not like he's the arbiter of The Correct Way to play the game or anything but still
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Sep 30, 2020 00:09
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People will always have weird bias. It's part of being human This does explain why i've started to move over to mace bro's so much though.
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Sep 30, 2020 00:49
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If one weapon were clearly superior to all others in most situations they'd just nerf it in a patch
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Sep 30, 2020 00:52
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Yeah, which is what they've been doing, but then a new weapon rises to the top
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Sep 30, 2020 01:01
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Maces still have the ability to stun most enemies, which can be situationally very useful, compared to hammer's ability to do more armor damage
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Sep 30, 2020 01:18
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Moonshine Rhyme posted:Maces still have the ability to stun most enemies, which can be situationally very useful, compared to hammer's ability to do more armor damage Its true, I thought I'd included a bit about that in my original post but I must have deleted it. That's probably going to give the edge to the mace but I think hammers look cool so I'll probably nerf myself over it lmao
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Sep 30, 2020 01:23
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