|
OzFactor posted:I've never been able to figure out why people think the Iron Keep transition is so out of place when you've gone through so many nonsensical area transitions before that point. I mean, you wake up at the beginning of the game in a big swirling darkness that is literally called "Things Betwixt." It is a game where you literally enter the memories of dead things. I don't really think it's all that out of place to consider that time and space do not function in linear and causal ways in Drangleic. The game's a drat fever dream and it's awesome and the music in Majula is so good. But it's weird, real weird, weird even on the scale of Dark Souls games. apparently the transition made sense in past builds but it was annoying to load up the background in some consoles so they changed to make it easier on those machines. of course i have no idea why anyone even cares.
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2020 17:56
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 22, 2024 06:38 |
|
|
DS2 unironically would have been significantly improved if they just changed some of the stupider level transitions out for literal warp points, like you use to access the Chasm or the DLCs. Or even a weird ghost hallway like that leading to the Kiln in DS1. They got the worst of both worlds instead. The map feels totally incoherent, but in a mundane and stupid way instead of a way that makes you think something weird is going on. Most of the time there’s not even any gameplay reason why they shouldn’t have done this. Nobody would ever go back down the Iron Keep elevator.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2020 17:59
|
|
|
skasion posted:DS2 unironically would have been significantly improved if they just changed some of the stupider level transitions out for literal warp points, like you use to access the Chasm or the DLCs. Or even a weird ghost hallway like that leading to the Kiln in DS1. They got the worst of both worlds instead. The map feels totally incoherent, but in a mundane and stupid way instead of a way that makes you think something weird is going on. Most of the time there’s not even any gameplay reason why they shouldn’t have done this. Nobody would ever go back down the Iron Keep elevator. With the elevator, it wouldn't have even been hard to have it go deep down instead. Sure, there's a skybox but you can just frame it as shifting into some hell dimension and people would swallow that better.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2020 18:19
|
|
|
I now have every piece of lothric knight gear except the spear  Just going to use the basic spear and buy this poo poo from greirat i think
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2020 20:58
|
|
|
Control Volume posted:I now have every piece of lothric knight gear except the spear Can't you buy it from him?
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2020 23:27
|
|
|
Yeah thats what I said. I was just hoping to get it before Irithyll.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2020 23:31
|
|
|
Sorry I misread the post
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2020 00:12
|
|
|
I always assumed that the original intent of the iron keep transition was to ride one of the cage-ziplines that you can see attached to the top of earthen peak from harvest valley. you'd descend into the caldera that keep sits in. in turn, it was axed for being too much effort to make/load
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2020 00:29
|
|
|
I think you can't fully dismiss the idea that at least some the level transitions were at some level intended to be an ellipsis of longer travels; the elevator from Aldia's to the Dragon Aerie has some major shifts in viewpoint as you ascend that seem very intentional. There was some of that at work in DS1 as well; Izalith and Ash Lake are at the same elevation based on the actual map model, but they're clearly not. And I like the lore idea of the Ash Lake level being shorthand for spending untold years wandering the sands below the archtrees until you find the last dragon hidden in some corner of the world, although on the other hand it kinda works as a Nidhogg reference for it to be at the base of the main tree.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2020 00:37
|
|
|
I was actually going to snark that for how much people jerk off about DS1's perfectly logical, flawlessly interconnected world you still have Tomb of the Giants somehow overlooking both Izalith and Ash Lake because ????
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2020 00:46
|
|
|
John Murdoch posted:I was actually going to snark that for how much people jerk off about DS1's perfectly logical, flawlessly interconnected world you still have Tomb of the Giants somehow overlooking both Izalith and Ash Lake because ???? Ash lake is underneath izalith.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2020 00:48
|
|
|
Paracelsus posted:I think you can't fully dismiss the idea that at least some the level transitions were at some level intended to be an ellipsis of longer travels; the elevator from Aldia's to the Dragon Aerie has some major shifts in viewpoint as you ascend that seem very intentional. There was some of that at work in DS1 as well; Izalith and Ash Lake are at the same elevation based on the actual map model, but they're clearly not. And I like the lore idea of the Ash Lake level being shorthand for spending untold years wandering the sands below the archtrees until you find the last dragon hidden in some corner of the world, although on the other hand it kinda works as a Nidhogg reference for it to be at the base of the main tree. Keep and Aerie (and Shrine) were clearly designed to go together though. It’s one of the more finished paths in the game. The fact that someone put the effort into what the player would be looking at shows this. It would be nice if there was anything like that level of effort in the Peak to Keep transition (or Castle to Amana, or Amana to Crypt), or for that matter a couple of other level transitions that don’t involve long rear end elevators. DS2 does have a bit of a reliance on long rear end elevators for transitions, but it’s just a difference of degree from the other games, and it’s not always badly done. It ends up coming around to something cool with Brume Tower being one big elevator shaft of a level. I don’t think bolded bit is true.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2020 01:03
|
|
|
I think if the windmill elevator past the medusa looking boss went down, nobody would've said poo poo
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2020 01:22
|
|
|
I love Dark Souls 2 - Double-bladed swords - Dual-wielding double-bladed swords and swinging them awkwardly like you're holding two kayak paddles - Nutsack trolls - FEEBLE CURSED ONE - Belfry in its heyday was like the Dark Souls equivalent of CTF-Face; a hilarious clusterfuck that probably put off most people but brought a lot of joy - Equipping the Majestic Greatsword in your left hand for a secret moveset - Bonefist Hadoken - Discovering that Vendrick is a giant hollow is cooler than plin plin plon - Shooting the pursuer with the ballista is almost as good as shooting the host - You want more than just a little blood. - You want to be drenched in blood, mired in its foul stench. Am I right? Am I? - Oh, just say that I'm right! Nah hah hah…
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2020 02:22
|
|
|
John Murdoch posted:I was actually going to snark that for how much people jerk off about DS1's perfectly logical, flawlessly interconnected world you still have Tomb of the Giants somehow overlooking both Izalith and Ash Lake because ???? well ash lake clearly extends far off into the distance, so it is in fact perfectly logical for there to be a view of ash lake from the tomb, it's just a different part from the one you can go to, and the fact that their respective elevations don't perfectly fit is artistic license, and the honor of dark souls is intact 
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2020 02:22
|
|
|
stretching the distance between two locations for more of a sense of scale but still having their positions largely make sense isn't really comparable anyhow
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2020 02:37
|
|
|
John Murdoch posted:I was actually going to snark that for how much people jerk off about DS1's perfectly logical, flawlessly interconnected world you still have Tomb of the Giants somehow overlooking both Izalith and Ash Lake because ????
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2020 03:48
|
|
|
In contrast, I've always thought that the endgame of Demon's was just a normal island below the floating Nexus but apparently a lot of people think it's metaphysical
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2020 03:51
|
|
|
The biggest non-loreable world bit that bothers me in DS1 is that you can't see the big caves of Tomb of Giants when you're down in the lava zone.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2020 03:54
|
|
|
skasion posted:I don’t think bolded bit is true. I didn't say it was true, just that I liked the idea.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2020 04:07
|
|
|
I understand the hatred for the elevator, because in this game I hate how theres a lake beneath a swamp beneath a lake. But I hate them more because those areas suck rear end
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2020 04:17
|
|
|
Harvest Valley/Earthen Peak is fine to navigate through. Not very pretty but whatever. However, the Alonne Knights in Iron Keep have the most overtuned line of sight, particularly in Scholar, and it pushes into silly how quickly they'll all scurry over to you from halfway across a zone.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2020 04:39
|
|
|
harvest valley is just a bunch of fart gas in bare rock pits
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2020 05:05
|
|
|
Please don't bash the homely gas pit I live in.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2020 05:07
|
|
|
i thought that maybe i'd just been being mean to ds2 until i replayed it all like half a year ago or some poo poo, but no, it really does feature stuff like 'it's a bunch of featureless rock and poo gas'
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2020 05:15
|
|
|
And yet, still more iconic than "gothic ramparts at sunset," "gothic village with snow," "gothic ruins in a poison swamp," and "literally the dark souls 1 gothic cathedral" IMO
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2020 05:29
|
|
|
Johnny Joestar posted:i thought that maybe i'd just been being mean to ds2 until i replayed it all like half a year ago or some poo poo, but no, it really does feature stuff like 'it's a bunch of featureless rock and poo gas' Yes, it is hosed up and weird, that is a good thing.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2020 05:30
|
|
|
it's not really hosed up and weird, it's very boring e: "hosed up and weird" is like, tower of latria and blighttown. the most atmospheric area in ds2 besides majula(which is not really a full "area", just a hub) is shaded woods, which is just ok LazyMaybe fucked around with this message at 05:42 on Sep 29, 2020 |
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2020 05:35
|
|
|
IronicDongz posted:it's not really hosed up and weird, it's very boring I love the Tower of Latria, it's insanely atmospheric, but it's also not actually that weird. It's a prison run by mind flayers. E: Also, Blighttown is a terrible example because it's an area they've put in every single game since DeS.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2020 05:42
|
|
|
you just described something far weirder than harvest valley/earthen peak. and that's without even mentioning this thing 
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2020 05:43
|
|
|
IronicDongz posted:you just described something far weirder than harvest valley/earthen peak, the two lowest effort 'poison level' zones in any souls game Not...really? Earthen Peak is a windmill that seems to exist to pump poison around, that's unique and weird. A prison level run by a very common fantasy creature is not that weird!
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2020 05:45
|
|
|
I don't agree in the first place and also execution matters a lot. tower of latria oozes horror top to bottom while harvest valley is lime green fart gas and an ugly illogical windmill that exists seemingly just because the boring snake boss at the top heals from poison. nothing about the area imposes any strong sort of tone onto the player, it just feels like "here's a poison level". taking digs at the mind flayers because they're from dnd also doesn't make a lot of sense because they're still a lot more unique than the enemies that show up in harvest valley/earthen peak
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2020 05:52
|
|
|
IronicDongz posted:I don't agree in the first place and also execution matters a lot. tower of latria oozes horror top to bottom while harvest valley is lime green fart gas and an ugly illogical windmill that exists seemingly just because the boring snake boss at the top heals from poison. nothing about the area imposes any strong sort of tone onto the player, it just feels like "here's a poison level". What I'm basically saying is you're confusing a level being terrifying - which the Tower of Latria absolutely is - with being unique or weird. The Tower is uniquely well executed and a fantastic level, a perfect example of why Demon's Souls is so good. It is also not that weird conceptually.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2020 05:55
|
|
|
i want to reiterate that i was talking about the zone, harvest valley, which looks like they forgot to add half the features and just made a series of bare, featureless rock pits filled with either fart gas or liquid that looks like raw sewage
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2020 05:58
|
|
|
Johnny Joestar posted:i want to reiterate that i was talking about the zone, harvest valley, which looks like they forgot to add half the features and just made a series of bare, featureless rock pits filled with either fart gas or liquid that looks like raw sewage Fart gas is a good one, but liquid that looks like raw sewage is a very good thing that should be in the game.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2020 06:07
|
|
|
Its sad because Harvest Valley/Earthen Peak is one of the more mechanically well designed areas and it just looks so awful.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2020 06:10
|
|
|
One of my favorite side bits in Dark Souls 3 is the way the game made me feel sorry for all the demons. In a way I guess there's no good reason to not feel sorry for them in DS1, but until you go visit them in their home and learn more about them, the demons are basically pretty generically evil monsters. I think the games do a good job of subverting that.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2020 06:10
|
|
|
King of Solomon posted:What I'm basically saying is you're confusing a level being terrifying - which the Tower of Latria absolutely is - with being unique or weird. The Tower is uniquely well executed and a fantastic level, a perfect example of why Demon's Souls is so good. It is also not that weird conceptually. Harvest valley, on the other hand, is just a poison level with a windmill. It's not weird, it's not scary, it doesn't speak to me in any way, both of its bosses are boring, and it's a bit of a slog in general. "A queen found poison in the ground, she went crazy and used poison to try and become beautiful" is a borderline incoherent conceit as presented that is not really supported by the level itself. If it was something like... a hosed up palace and courtyard full of corrupted nobles putting up a veneer of beauty while actually being hideous poisoned creatures, that would be cool. (see: the countess from darkest dungeon demurely hiding her hosed up insect face.) but it's not that at all. SHISHKABOB posted:Fart gas is a good one, but liquid that looks like raw sewage is a very good thing that should be in the game.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2020 06:15
|
|
|
there should be a farming game in the dark souls series called harvest valley
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2020 06:25
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 22, 2024 06:38 |
|
|
SHISHKABOB posted:One of my favorite side bits in Dark Souls 3 is the way the game made me feel sorry for all the demons. In a way I guess there's no good reason to not feel sorry for them in DS1, but until you go visit them in their home and learn more about them, the demons are basically pretty generically evil monsters. I think the games do a good job of subverting that. Yesterday I learned if you take a big strike weapon and hit one of the Stray Demon's legs enough they'll break like stone and then the thing becomes completely helpless. I also learned that if you beat on a Great Wolf's legs enough with a strike weapon breaking its legs will insta-kill it. I was doing a suicide run for the Millwood Axe and was maybe 1/3rd through the Wolf's HP and I heard a crunch, saw it limp, and then immediately die.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2020 07:00
|
|
