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veni veni veni posted:Tbh one of the things I've been most disappointed with in this game, and there has been quite a few things, is how little the protagonist's inner demons seem to affect gameplay. I'm told that I'm a drug addicted, chain smoking alcoholic but it all feels like lip service. In the early hours of the game I thought I was going to play as a wild party monster, but it turns out there is almost no incentive to do so. At this point in the game I feel like my character's reputation is completely at odds with his actions and it wasn't even a choice I consciously made. I just kind of forgot that things like drinking and smoking were even a buff/debuff, option because it's almost never actually a carrot on a stick that hangs in front of you. It's just some barely relevant mechanic hanging in the background. i think its pretty true to life tbh smoking(of course its a drug), yeah no one ever forgets to smoke in real life and its compulsive but thats not really a thing you can do gameplay wise compulsively and its the same? but drinking/drugs you can definitely come out of a rough one, realize oh gently caress and not remember what you did and try to piece things together and have a real hell of a time of it and a creeping sense of oh poo poo poo poo poo poo i hosed up and youre like im not touching anything ever again sober harry is the most moral harry and also potentially the most tragic harry cause once that freakout ends he might back slide but hopefully his partner is there for him
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Sep 28, 2020 20:23
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| # ? Jun 4, 2024 17:32 |
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Electrochemistry adds extra charges to these items, so a high Electrochemistry character gets more out of their drugs. The skill also leads you down a path of substance abuse, giving you quests to procure amphetamine, or just buy a magnum sized bottle of wine. These quests are often non-refusable.
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Sep 28, 2020 21:02
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I think it's really hard to create the sort of incentive with mechanics that is needed for substance abuse -- gameplay is always guided by this sense of "seeking advantages" and you can't communicate "this substance objectively makes you a worse person"* at the same time that you communicate "you really really wanna do the substance." Like when I was trying to quit smoking in college, I might have designed "smoking a cigarette" as "lowering max HP by 1" if I was trying to develop mechanics that modeled my life. Nobody intentionally makes the choice to lower their stats in a game when roleplaying/otherwise playing "authentically," though some people might make choices like that to do challenge runs or to prove a point. Doesn't work for modeling addiction, because it's a disincentive so maybe we try a different mechanic: Smoking a cigarette "lowers max HP by 1, increases focus for 5 minutes." Better because it's a double-edged choice, but mostly people aren't going to use this as soon as they see that the long-term penalties add up & the short-term benefits don't last. The people who DO use this effectively might be metagaming and only lower their max HP to an acceptable threshold, using the temporary benefits to overcome the specific skill checks that are needed. The closest real-life example of this is the sort of person who says "I'm only going to smoke cigarettes until I turn 25, then I'm going to quit so that I can't get cancer." This is nonsense in real life, and nonsense in a game unless you're only concerned about game mechanics. You could instead model this as, "lowers max HP by 1, gives you lore/story events you wouldn't otherwise get if you weren't smoking." This is an interesting choice (one that can be paired with the previous option) but there's issues: it highlights addiction purely as a choice thing, which is ignorant of the real world/brain chemistry/etc and detracts from the narrative in the ways you're all describing (it doesn't feel like you're roleplaying a real addict because you just don't partake of any substances). What the game does well (and we've talked about this in this thread multiple times, I defer to anyone else who wrote about this): no matter what you're still an addict at the end of the game. You can clean up for a day, three days, a week, a month, a year, a decade, whatever -- you're always an addict, and it's always up to you to be a recovered one, every morning you get up. The Harry that doesn't drink or smoke or do drugs throughout his whole playthrough is still an alcoholic and still abusing speed, no matter what. The mechanics aren't doing much to show you that, and obviously the lore isn't enough to satisfy everyone. And that's okay I guess. * "worse" descriptively in the sense of the internal feelings we have as a result of substance abuse & the way we lose access to things we truly love, not "worse" prescriptively as a moral/ethical judgment of a person who has addiction & can benefit from getting support.
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Sep 28, 2020 21:03
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games will truly reach their apex when disco elysium 2 reacts to the player taking a drug by forcibly injecting the real thing into the actual player
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Sep 28, 2020 22:54
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but - crucially - not the player making the choice to ingest the drug in-game. there's a reason it's online-only play. everyone is the PC's voices for everyone.
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Sep 28, 2020 23:01
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I am attempting to be a communist hobocop that also has very strong opinions of advanced race theory, yet my rhetoric skill is depressingly bad at the cost of my inland empire On a scale of 1 to 10 how strongly am I currently embodying 2005ish era arguably insane permabanned goon?
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Sep 28, 2020 23:32
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EorayMel posted:Electrochemistry adds extra charges to these items, so a high Electrochemistry character gets more out of their drugs. The skill also leads you down a path of substance abuse, giving you quests to procure amphetamine, or just buy a magnum sized bottle of wine. These quests are often non-refusable. Yeah, those non-refusable quests don't seem to pack much of a punch, unless someone's got their own personal addiction to completionism and crossing everything off the list. I feel like I wouldn't personally mind if there were more truly compulsive checks, literally forcing your hand sometimes if you keep any drugs in your inventory at all. Instead of staring in horror at roll results like "The words have already left your mouth", you sometimes get "the drink has already entered your mouth".  But that'd probably rub a lot of people the wrong way gameplay-wise.
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Sep 29, 2020 03:02
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Drinking should be a way to not take morale damage on some failed checks imo, Harry's coping mechanism in action.
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Sep 29, 2020 03:16
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Roctavian posted:What the game does well (and we've talked about this in this thread multiple times, I defer to anyone else who wrote about this): no matter what you're still an addict at the end of the game. You can clean up for a day, three days, a week, a month, a year, a decade, whatever -- you're always an addict, and it's always up to you to be a recovered one, every morning you get up. The Harry that doesn't drink or smoke or do drugs throughout his whole playthrough is still an alcoholic and still abusing speed, no matter what. i dont know about all that but its true its only like, less than a week so harry is at most, merely coming off the worlds worst hangover
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Sep 29, 2020 08:30
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Ftr I do really like this game for the most part. Probably seems like I've been making GBS threads on it recently, because I have some pretty mixed feelings about how much I like the writing and the world, and the actual game part of it which I have lot of issues with. That said I am really just kind of ready to wrap it up. I just found ruby and got blasted with some sonic device. 22 hours. Really hoping I'm near the home stretch so I can just find out what happened and start playing Divinity 2.
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Sep 29, 2020 10:05
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Not doing any drugs on day one but still running around incredibly energetic and active after a mind-destroying bender is a thing that becomes a major point on day two.
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Sep 29, 2020 13:43
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Biggest highlight of Hardcore 1/1/1/1 failcop run so far: dying on day 2 by repeatedly yelling "COCK CAROUSEL" at the increasingly concerned Hardie boys e: this is a good build by day 3, right overeager overeater fucked around with this message at 16:02 on Sep 29, 2020 |
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Sep 29, 2020 15:48
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overeager overeater posted:Biggest highlight of Hardcore 1/1/1/1 failcop run so far: dying on day 2 by repeatedly yelling "COCK CAROUSEL" at the increasingly concerned Hardie boys
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Sep 29, 2020 16:23
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Xander77 posted:Still things I've never seen in this game. Garte's love quest, sure, but how do you bring it up to the HB's? I said it a few times to Garte and then it came up as an option when I was talking to the Hardies.
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Sep 29, 2020 17:08
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Xander77 posted:Still things I've never seen in this game. Garte's love quest, sure, but how do you bring it up to the HB's? Fail the check to "prove your authority to Titus", and pick the option "The same thing happened to my friend Garte over there..." As I discovered the hard way, you take Health damage every time you say "cock carousel", unlike that one conversation with Joyce
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Sep 29, 2020 17:22
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overeager overeater posted:Fail the check to "prove your authority to Titus", and pick the option "The same thing happened to my friend Garte over there..." Imagine Harry talking about Mr. Claire's Cock Carousel in his chair, forever.
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Sep 29, 2020 17:24
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mr carousel is helping me find my cock
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Sep 29, 2020 17:40
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veni veni veni posted:Ftr I do really like this game for the most part. Probably seems like I've been making GBS threads on it recently, because I have some pretty mixed feelings about how much I like the writing and the world, and the actual game part of it which I have lot of issues with. You're very close, you could finish the game basically right now. It also might be too late (and idk if it even matters for the ending, but I assumed it did.. or had something to do with it), but did you do the side quest for the cryptozoologist, Lena's husband, and inspect the traps?* In fact I would recommend doing that, I think you'll like the ending and the thing you do right after you confront Ruby in particular. I could be mistaken, but I think you just have to head towards the Whirling In Rags and you'll see what's going on, I think youve already triggered it. *Actually, now that I've looked it up, it doesn't matter whether you do this or not, drat. I thought getting sprayed with the pheromones triggered the thing at the end, or whether you see it or not, but I guess it happens regardless.
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Sep 29, 2020 18:54
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Imhotep posted:You're very close, you could finish the game basically right now. It also might be too late (and idk if it even matters for the ending, but I assumed it did.. or had something to do with it), but did you do the side quest for the cryptozoologist, Lena's husband, and inspect the traps?* I think doing that gives you a bonus/removes a penalty for the electrochemistry check to approach the phasmid but isn't necessary? honestly I've never not done it google shows me some people complaining about failing said check without doing that thing, even rolling double sixes, but I figure those are probably people forgetting about The Precarious World making you auto-fail red checks
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Sep 29, 2020 19:21
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I have heard things can make it impossible Shaving after getting sprayed give you a penalty
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Sep 29, 2020 19:22
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I checked the trap that morell gave me a box of crickets for right before meeting ruby, but didn't find anything
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Sep 29, 2020 19:26
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Imhotep posted:*Actually, now that I've looked it up, it doesn't matter whether you do this or not, drat. I thought getting sprayed with the pheromones triggered the thing at the end, or whether you see it or not, but I guess it happens regardless. If I recall correctly, the pheromones give you a very high bonus in the ‘step closer’ roll.
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Sep 29, 2020 22:33
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I'm late to the party and just beat the game as the sensitive archetype. It was loving amazing. What should I do for my new playthrough stats wise ?
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Sep 29, 2020 22:46
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High Motorics is quite satisfying, IMO.
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Sep 29, 2020 22:47
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Tylana posted:High Motorics is quite satisfying, IMO. Seconded, I didn't want to do that one at first because I assumed it just meant "better at violence" but it's much more interesting than that.
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Sep 29, 2020 22:51
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I want some intellect mixed in because a lot (most) int checks ended up with "I'm dumb"
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Sep 29, 2020 22:57
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high int gives you more opportunities to spend time with encyclopedia, the most precious skill
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Sep 29, 2020 23:30
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I'm new to this and only on Day 2 and have tried hard not to spoil anything about the game for myself, but I have gotten the Communist achievement and am currently talking to Joyce about the nature of the Pale and this is not only the SA Game of the Year, it's the SA Game of All Time. The description for that one completed thought alone cements it. This is fantastic, it's the BoJack Horseman of games. I'm laughing out loud all the time and then not infrequently filled with dread, and it's just smart as all hell.
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Sep 30, 2020 02:21
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Think I am nearing the end. I found the deserter on the island and am prepping to head back (without him, which is weird). My encounter with the mercs was disastrous. Most of the Hardie boys died and I got shot multiple times cause I had no gun. The reveal of the murderer was pretty low key but also satisfying enough. I enjoyed finding out his motivations. Weird seeing a whodunnit that pans out to be someone who isn't even a previous character. The phasmid was very cool. I am guessing that part doesn't happen if you didn't do the quest? Can it appear earlier? Someone mentioned using an item from it earlier on in the game. I checked the traps many times but it never appeared until after I made the arrest.
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Sep 30, 2020 09:35
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veni veni veni posted:Think I am nearing the end. I found the deserter on the island and am prepping to head back (without him, which is weird). My encounter with the mercs was disastrous. Most of the Hardie boys died and I got shot multiple times cause I had no gun. The reveal of the murderer was pretty low key but also satisfying enough. I enjoyed finding out his motivations. Weird seeing a whodunnit that pans out to be someone who isn't even a previous character. The phasmid was very cool. I am guessing that part doesn't happen if you didn't do the quest? Can it appear earlier? Someone mentioned using an item from it earlier on in the game. I checked the traps many times but it never appeared until after I made the arrest. The murderer is someone you haven't met until the end, but their presence is on every screen in the game.
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Sep 30, 2020 10:23
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veni veni veni posted:Think I am nearing the end. I found the deserter on the island and am prepping to head back (without him, which is weird). My encounter with the mercs was disastrous. Most of the Hardie boys died and I got shot multiple times cause I had no gun. The reveal of the murderer was pretty low key but also satisfying enough. I enjoyed finding out his motivations. Weird seeing a whodunnit that pans out to be someone who isn't even a previous character. The phasmid was very cool. I am guessing that part doesn't happen if you didn't do the quest? Can it appear earlier? Someone mentioned using an item from it earlier on in the game. I checked the traps many times but it never appeared until after I made the arrest. Nah, I was mistaken and thought that you had to do that quest in order to make it show up, I'd read somewhere that the pheromones Lena's husband sprays on you is like why it's friendly, or something. But that's wrong, and no you can't see it earlier, or go to that area at any other point. You left out the most important part though, what happened to Kim during the tribunal?? Also funny hearing Felix and Matt from Chapo talking to each other during the tribunal.
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Sep 30, 2020 10:25
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veni veni veni posted:Think I am nearing the end.
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Sep 30, 2020 10:46
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showbiz_liz posted:Seconded, I didn't want to do that one at first because I assumed it just meant "better at violence" but it's much more interesting than that. Ah, yes, the ability to not make a complete fool of yourself when someone casually throws you an item.
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Sep 30, 2020 13:01
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World War Mammories posted:I think doing that gives you a bonus/removes a penalty for the electrochemistry check to approach the phasmid but isn't necessary? honestly I've never not done it I absolutely could not pass the check because I had bathed after initially using the pheromones. I did not take Precarious World, yet even savescummed double-sixes failed the roll, as it's an inevitable failure roll. I couldn't have the ensuing conversation until I edited my save file to apply the pheromone buff.
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Sep 30, 2020 15:45
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Alchenar posted:The murderer is someone you haven't met until the end, but their presence is on every screen in the game. Elaborate please? I know some of that but every?
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Sep 30, 2020 15:55
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RoboChrist 9000 posted:Elaborate please? I know some of that but every? This is the main example, but all over the place there are things that have been shot by an old gun but recently. It's an odd thing that you can notice as odd but it doesn't tie into anything and you don't get a chance to do anything but notice it's odd until you meet the guy.
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Sep 30, 2020 16:04
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Oh yeah I noticed that. Not quite every screen though, so thought there was something else.
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Sep 30, 2020 16:17
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Brosnan posted:I absolutely could not pass the check because I had bathed after initially using the pheromones. I did not take Precarious World, yet even savescummed double-sixes failed the roll, as it's an inevitable failure roll. I couldn't have the ensuing conversation until I edited my save file to apply the pheromone buff. hum, interesting. what are the checks here again? I think there are two? electrochemistry to approach and inland empire to have the conversation? I've never not taken the pheromones so I'm not sure of the alternatives to how that scene plays out
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Sep 30, 2020 17:21
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Alchenar posted:The murderer is someone you haven't met until the end, but their presence is on every screen in the game. At the beginning you even get a message about a quick flash of light that I think is him having you in his scope
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Sep 30, 2020 18:10
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| # ? Jun 4, 2024 17:32 |
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this game was built for save-scumming, matter of fact next game im save scumming every 3% impossible check for all the bullshit i had to deal with the first time around
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Oct 1, 2020 07:21
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