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Unmature posted:What the? That’s nuts I thought that was how long after Space Seed I could be misremembering and it's after just another 5 year mission following TMP, but the Enterprise is already basically retired as a training simulator so a good amount of time has definitely passed.
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Sep 30, 2020 04:14
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Son of Sam-I-Am posted:I could be misremembering and it's after just another 5 year mission following TMP, but the Enterprise is already basically retired as a training simulator so a good amount of time has definitely passed. No you’re right I just didn’t catch that at all V is far and away the worst Trek TOS movie I’ve seen so far Unmature fucked around with this message at 04:23 on Sep 30, 2020 |
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Sep 30, 2020 04:19
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Unmature posted:No you’re right I just didn’t catch that at all 
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Sep 30, 2020 04:25
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I am so fffffuuuuuckin bored. They’re talking to God now though so it’s picked up a little.
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Sep 30, 2020 04:28
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TWOK came out in 1982, which was 15 years after Space Seed aired (1967), which is probably all the thought that was given to that particular timeline. TMP, for whatever it's worth, was released in 1979, 12 years after Space Seed and 3 before Wrath of Khan. The timeline that canon seems to have settled on is still fairly close to that: the events of Space Seed were in 2267 and TWOK took place in 2285, so 18 years instead of fifteen (perhaps the characters were just rounding). As for TMP, well, apart from taking place somewhere in the 2270s, it's a little vague.
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Sep 30, 2020 04:32
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There's a lot of neat ideas in V, but none of them is given all the attention they deserve. Hey, here's the Romulans having some kind of deal with the Federation and the Klingons, and the deal's bad. Hey, here's Spock's long lost brother, and you know those crazy weird Vulcan psychic powers? He's figured out how to use those to grant enlightenment by rejecting Surak's teachings and possibly with divine inspiration? Woah, McCoy euthanized his father and Kirk apparently has some weird issues with accepting that he has long-term bonds with others? Hey, there's this big floating head guy in a sector of the universe that was locked off behind an impenetrable barrier, what's up with that? I think I saw one on Andoria.
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Sep 30, 2020 04:39
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None of the plot points in ST5 are ever really explored much besides the relationship between the Big Three. Meanwhile, the other cast is reduced to comic relief between Scotty knocking himself out on a girder and the Uhura fan dance
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Sep 30, 2020 04:54
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FlamingLiberal posted:None of the plot points in ST5 are ever really explored much besides the relationship between the Big Three. Meanwhile, the other cast is reduced to comic relief between Scotty knocking himself out on a girder and the Uhura fan dance At least Chekov got to be fake captain
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Sep 30, 2020 04:57
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i was so loving excited for star trek v too, because it was the first one that came out after i became a huge trek nerd in grade school and i actually knew all the poo poo as opposed to when i was much younger and had seen twok and search i think i convinced myself it was an enjoyable movie because i watched it a few times the next summer on hbo for sure
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Sep 30, 2020 05:14
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FlamingLiberal posted:Was just listening to the Greatest Gen episode where they covered the DS9 episode with Weyoun 6, and they were kind of sad that the producers didn't have that Weyoun survive so that he could show up on the station sometimes. I like that idea, but the producers already had their hands full with like 12-15 major characters and multiple ongoing storylines. This is basically the smart sci-fi writing Farscape pulled off, by having clones of main characters allowing the crew to split up for a half season. Plus a neural clone of the bad guy was in the main character's head, so we got to see him a lot without the good guys constantly 'beating him' leading to their wussification like what happened to the Borg in Voyager or almost every single villain in Dr. Who.
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Sep 30, 2020 06:19
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SlothfulCobra posted:There's a lot of neat ideas in V, but none of them is given all the attention they deserve. It's almost as though each of them are elements in a wider theme exploring the idea of faith. Sure there's lots of other garbage that should have been edited down, but I really like the film.
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Sep 30, 2020 07:57
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crzJ6kTueg4
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Sep 30, 2020 08:31
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Cat Hatter posted:Didn't Odo say that part of the deal with the surrender was that he'd be going back to cure the changelings while she stayed behind? Yes 'sorry we used a bioweapon to try to genocide you, but now that you've surrendered we're offering the cure' feels really unlikely to change the Founder's minds on whether it's safe to be around solids.
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Sep 30, 2020 08:45
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Alchenar posted:Yes 'sorry we used a bioweapon to try to genocide you, but now that you've surrendered we're offering the cure' feels really unlikely to change the Founder's minds on whether it's safe to be around solids. True, but not only did they cure her before the surrender with no strings attached but she would have gained Odo's perspective on how Bashir and OBrien risked their lives to get the cure. Besides, to a Founder that 30 years in prison was probably the equivalent to a month in jail which might have been worth it by itself just to get Odo back.
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Sep 30, 2020 09:32
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ST5 is broken as hell but still better than anything produced since like 199-something sometimes I think it's a crime shatner never got to do a director's cut but honestly whatever it's fine
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Sep 30, 2020 09:42
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Alchenar posted:Yes 'sorry we used a bioweapon to try to genocide you, but now that you've surrendered we're offering the cure' feels really unlikely to change the Founder's minds on whether it's safe to be around solids. Hey, I'm sure Odo's influence will keep them on the straight and narrow! I mean, it's not as if he's a proto-fascist authoritarian collaborator who already sold out his friends and lover after linking with a single Founder!
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Sep 30, 2020 09:47
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Cat Hatter posted:True, but not only did they cure her before the surrender with no strings attached but she would have gained Odo's perspective on how Bashir and OBrien risked their lives to get the cure. It's the whole great link that's sick. Female Founder gets cured so that she can surrender. It's also ambiguous but the show is also clear that the Dominion has massive overwhelming forces stuck in its homeland on the far side of the wormhole, so it's presumably just 'the Dominion in the Alpha Quadrant' that's surrendering. That actually makes it even worse from the Changeling perspective. The Federation tried to wipe them all out before the war started.
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Sep 30, 2020 10:00
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Tighclops posted:ST5 is broken as hell but still better than anything produced since like 199-something The rock monster segment always sounded like it would have brought the Sha Ka Ree stuff to a screeching halt, so we’re probably better off without it. The finale as is works alright and is extremely TOS. The only parts of V that outright suck for me are the way the desert outpost looks, the elevator escape, and that “I know this ship like the back of me hand *DONK*” Scotty joke. I really do believe that a lot of V’s detractors just haven’t seen the movie in decades and are condemning it based on the unfair reputation it’s gained on the internet over the years. The film is campy as hell and more of an adventure-comedy than actual sci-fi, but that ends up making it fun. I’d even argue that V holds up third-best among the TOS films behind Khan and Undiscovered Country since Search for Spock is boring as poo poo, Voyage Home feels incredibly dated, and TMP (while conceptually great) is basically just a two-hour special effects reel.
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Sep 30, 2020 10:05
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This account is incredible. It doesn't have enough ATTENTION BAJORAN WORKERS, though.
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Sep 30, 2020 12:01
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Big Mean Jerk posted:and that “I know this ship like the back of me hand *DONK*” Scotty joke. And that joke would've been perfectly fine if he hadn't actually been knocked unconscious by it.
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Sep 30, 2020 12:05
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I've been watching Enterprise for the second/first time (I originally gave up halfway through season 2 when it was first airing) and I gotta say, I've never been so happy being so extremely bored. Star Trek: I've never been so happy being so extremely bored
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Sep 30, 2020 12:19
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MikeJF posted:And that joke would've been perfectly fine if he hadn't actually been knocked unconscious by it. Wasn't the joke that the ship wasn't Scotty's Enterprise (that one blew up two movies ago) AND it had just been refit, so no, he really didn't know it like the back of his hand and not 'oh scotty is just a complete boob who doesn't know his own ship'?
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Sep 30, 2020 12:25
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Even though I watched it about 3 times, there's something about Enterprise where about 80% of it is just a blur to me. That said it had a couple of neat ideas and I'd like to see a show set between ENT and TOS that actually dealt with the Birth of the Federation like season 5 was hinted to be about.
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Sep 30, 2020 12:29
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DS9 - Battle Lines is a pretty decent season 1 episode. They still haven't figured out exactly how to split the difference between alien-of-the-week plot and character study, but they're getting warmer. Kira is becoming a little more of a real character instead of angry all the time, Sisko is showing stronger leadership, and it's the first episode where Bashir doesn't come off as annoying, naive, or creepy. I'm surprised this is basically Opaka's last episode though. I know she shows up one or two more times in visions, but I thought she didn't go away until maybe the end of the season. I knew Winn was the more important character overall, just didn't realize it happened so soon. The "aliens fighting a war but they can never die" thing was, again, probably more interesting than it would've been on TNG, but still kind of an uphill battle to really care about. Big Mean Jerk posted:I really do believe that a lot of V’s detractors just haven’t seen the movie in decades and are condemning it based on the unfair reputation it’s gained on the internet over the years. The film is campy as hell and more of an adventure-comedy than actual sci-fi, but that ends up making it fun. Opinions are what they are, but I gave it my first ever actual, full-fledged viewing earlier this year, and I really wanted to discover that it wasn't actually all that bad. But I think its reputation is mostly deserved, adjusting for the usual internet exaggeration of things. I would've liked it to be campy fun, but it's not committed enough to that -- or any one idea, really -- to work. The action scenes aren't impressive at all (partially due to a crippled effects team) and the serious scenes never feel earned. Star Trek 4, now that's campy fun. I mean they do literally go camping but that's not the point Sir Lemming fucked around with this message at 13:23 on Sep 30, 2020 |
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Sep 30, 2020 12:41
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I’ve seen V many times and it never improves. It’s fine if you like it for being silly or campy, but it’s not good. Voyage Home at least nails the comedy. V has a lot of serious themes wedged in between really dumb comedy moments They also should have cut the opening stuff on the ‘peace planet’ more because I guess in an earlier version of the script it played a bigger role, but in the final product it feels like it needed to go.
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Sep 30, 2020 13:38
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ST V makes a lot more sense if you're familiar with the Shatnerverse novels. Not because the movie is in the Shatnerverse or because the Shatnerverse is good (it's trash), but because if gives you at least a little bit of understanding of how Shatner sees sci-fi. And you see that vision all over Star Trek 5: The One He Was Allowed To Direct.
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Sep 30, 2020 14:03
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Alchenar posted:Yes 'sorry we used a bioweapon to try to genocide you, but now that you've surrendered we're offering the cure' feels really unlikely to change the Founder's minds on whether it's safe to be around solids. They're not actually worried about being safe around 'solids', that's just a thin justification for running a fascist xenophobic slave empire.
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Sep 30, 2020 16:26
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SlothfulCobra posted:They're not actually worried about being safe around 'solids', that's just a thin justification for running a fascist xenophobic slave empire. Right down to the language of calling Weyoun "one of the good ones" (paraphrased)
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Sep 30, 2020 16:31
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Star Trek v is good and it's the rest of you that are bad
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Sep 30, 2020 17:14
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Final Frontier isn’t good, but it’s fascinating as an artifact from another era of nerd poo poo where suits had such a limited idea of what consumers wanted that they figured letting the leading man run the show was a good idea. You’re definitely not going to see another movie like it any time soon.
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Sep 30, 2020 18:49
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skasion posted:Final Frontier isn’t good, but it’s fascinating as an artifact from another era of nerd poo poo where suits had such a limited idea of what consumers wanted that they figured letting the leading man run the show was a good idea. You’re definitely not going to see another movie like it any time soon. Shatner and Nimoy had favored nations clauses in their movie contracts. Essentially, whatever Shatner got, Nimoy got, and vice versa. Since Nimoy had directed the previous two movies, it was well within Shatner's rights to ask to direct V. Also, people really need to stop blaming him for the script. He didn't write it.
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Sep 30, 2020 19:34
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If anything, Shatner pretty competently directed it.
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Sep 30, 2020 19:43
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Didn't they slash the budget twice during production?
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Sep 30, 2020 19:50
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Big Mean Jerk posted:I’d even argue that V holds up third-best among the TOS films behind Khan and Undiscovered Country since Search for Spock is boring as poo poo, Voyage Home feels incredibly dated, and TMP (while conceptually great) is basically just a two-hour special effects reel. Voyage Home might be dated because it's literally portraying them going back to 1986, but until Paramount nuts up and produces another light-hearted Trek film that doesn't end in a fistfight, my position is that TVH is a vital, necessary part of the Star Trek canon, and anyone who says otherwise can "go to hell." 
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Sep 30, 2020 19:53
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8one6 posted:Didn't they slash the budget twice during production? I don't think the budget got cut, I think they ran short trying to do the rock-men and Paramount refused to give them any more money to finish/figure it out. Also as much as people like to bag on TFF for questionable writing decisions, let's all remember that Ron Moore and Brannon Braga hosed up Generations so bad that Paramount had to spend an extra, what, $3 million? on dragging everyone back out to the desert to reshoot the ending because the test audience's reaction was so overwhelmingly negative. That's over 10 percent of the movie's budget.
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Sep 30, 2020 19:59
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Shatner didn't have anything to do with the ILM-replacement mess either which is one of the biggest problems with the movie.
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Sep 30, 2020 20:03
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I still dislike the way they killed Kirk. Kirk should’ve had some grandiose death, like going down with a ship or a planet blowing up while he’s on the surface. Not “Kirk dies after some scaffolding falls on him”.
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Sep 30, 2020 20:04
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It’s really a bad end and I’m not sure why they thought it was better Like I don’t know, maybe have him jump in front of a phaser shot from Soran aimed at Picard or something?
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Sep 30, 2020 20:06
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Gonz posted:Not “Kirk dies after some scaffolding falls on him”. "Bridge on the captain."
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Sep 30, 2020 20:09
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Kirk should have died of old age surrounded by his dearest friends and loved ones.
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Sep 30, 2020 20:10
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