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Vote to threadban Bioshuffle This poll is closed. |
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146 | 85.38% |
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25 | 14.62% |
| Total: | 171 votes | ||
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I mean there's plenty of good ideas and even some okay scripting and storytelling in lots of Ennis' stuff, and there's also some big flaws that aren't related to the edgelord poo poo. The Boys in comic form is gross, but the stuff centered around Homelander's arc is pretty great. Also though, the story spends huge amounts of time going nowhere and building plot threads that never amount to anything. You could skip the middle paperbacks and miss nothing.
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Oct 1, 2020 14:49
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Sockser posted:I'm on the third TPB of the comic and it is.... not great? I don't know if I'll buy the fourth, I'm slowly souring on the whole thing. It's incredible how much better the show is The only real good thing about the comic, like the only really good thing in all of Ennis's work, is a pulsing virulent hatred of America's war making industry. Something the show hasnt really gotten into yet.
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Oct 1, 2020 15:02
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Ennis' work is like apple pie covered in ants. You definitely shouldn't be taking a big bite but, if you pick little pieces out and be careful, you can probably enjoy yourself. The Boys, I feel, is the only superhero spoof that actually despises the political culture they originated from.
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Oct 1, 2020 15:02
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Shageletic posted:The only real good thing about the comic, like the only really good thing in all of Ennis's work, is a pulsing virulent hatred of America's war making industry. Eh, I think it's more that he hates the corporate stranglehold on war. He's totally in love with the Intelligence Industry and wrote a comic about how the CIA is justified in doing their poo poo because otherwise Europe would keep getting Americans killed in their idiot wars.
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Oct 1, 2020 15:08
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sponges posted:I can’t get over how bad the comic sounds from the posts here. It genuinely comes across like it was written by a deranged teenager. I’m surprised they even considered making it into a TV show. Utgardaloki posted:I mean there's plenty of good ideas and even some okay scripting and storytelling in lots of Ennis' stuff, and there's also some big flaws that aren't related to the edgelord poo poo. Utgardaloki is absolutely right on both counts. I'd started reading the first few issues of the comics when they first came out, and quickly realized that Preacher had been good enough to wait out Ennis' bullshit, but this wasn't. I thought nothing more of it for years, although I do remember people saying that the comics had improved over their run. The trailer for the show looked good enough that I watched the first episode, and holy loving poo poo. After finishing the magnificent first season, I decided over the summer in the runup to season 2 to finally read the comics just in case. A few thoughts: 1) The show, obviously, is possibly the most staggering case of "the adaptation is better than the source material" that I can think of. 2) Much/most of the comics are bad, as people have described, but there are some arcs/nuggets of goodness. I did like the very first few issues where things got set up (and Robin died, although like so many things the show did it better), until Ennis' hindbrain started fully reasserting itself. I also liked the final arcs, involving Homelander's overall plan coming to fruition, the BIG REVEAL about Black Noir - which I think the show is planning to do as well - and the actual final arc involving the aftermath. This is why I agree with Utgardaloki's second point - if anyone's interested in the comics, you could absolutely read the first and last trades only, and do just fine. 3) I don't regret the time spent reading the full comic collection, which wasn't that long, but definitely can't say all the middle stuff was worth it. I genuinely don't understand Ennis. He's capable of writing some very good stories and dialogue, and then decides to have an extended joke about cunnilingus while someone's having her period, or the whole MM thing already described, or the Love Sausage thing, which in the comics was a good character who just happened to have a huge dick and wore Spandex. And then the entire Herogasm miniseries. I like a good fart joke as much as anyone, and am not claiming much of a moral high ground, but not one bit of any of that stuff was actually funny, or interesting, or additive to the story in any way whatsoever. It's like his brain is two brains fighting for control of the hands that are on the keyboard. Some of this was around in Preacher but it wasn't nearly as bad, for the most part. 4) But he can do humor! He does have some genuinely funny things, like "...and that one is obviously The Deep." Why can't he just do that stuff and leave out the rest? Sarcastro fucked around with this message at 15:11 on Oct 1, 2020 |
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Oct 1, 2020 15:09
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DogsInSpace! posted:Yeah leave the Dad crusader parts and forget the rest. Those “nuggets” could be ok... just glad I didn’t know before checking the show out. Almost was going to read it based on Love Sausage panels. I vaguely remember the Ennis run on Hellblazer and 2000AD were decent. The Love Sausage panels are cherrypicked around some mega-  rose-colored Soviet Union apologia, it's really not worth it. Whenever you think Ennis did good, remember there's always 50 times as much fetid trash piled up around it.
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Oct 1, 2020 15:19
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My feeling is that Ennis can be quite good when he is not trying to be overly edgy or wacky. Which leaves mostly comics with characters (Punisher) or themes (war) he respects. To be honest The Boys was always unreadable to me while the show expertly extracts good elements from it.
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Oct 1, 2020 15:27
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So is he basically Frank Miller, then?
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Oct 1, 2020 15:58
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Fionordequester posted:So is he basically Frank Miller, then? No, Garth Ennis doesn't hate muslims and can write female characters who aren't literal prostitutes. Ennis is like a 6.5 on whatever scale where Miller is a 10.
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Oct 1, 2020 16:25
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I guess the examples I picked made it seem that way . He also wrote some well regarded stuff like Hellblazer or Hitman which I have not read so I did not mention them. He's not a fascist, he just needs someone to tell him to shut the gently caress up when he tries too hard to be funny or edgy.
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Oct 1, 2020 16:39
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I've seen Ennis described as a foreigner in love with America who only kinda sorta understands America. As far as the too-cool-for-school edginess of his writing I think it's worth noting that Ennis was like 40 years old when he wrote The Boys. edit: Unrelated/related, Meghan McCain named her daughter Liberty. Rando fucked around with this message at 16:48 on Oct 1, 2020 |
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Oct 1, 2020 16:43
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"The only man in the sky is me." That's a chilling line they better put in the show somewhere, if they don't use the whole scene.
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Oct 1, 2020 17:16
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Sarcastro posted:Utgardaloki is absolutely right on both counts. I'd started reading the first few issues of the comics when they first came out, and quickly realized that Preacher had been good enough to wait out Ennis' bullshit, but this wasn't. sad question posted:My feeling is that Ennis can be quite good when he is not trying to be overly edgy or wacky. Which leaves mostly comics with characters (Punisher) or themes (war) he respects. To be honest The Boys was always unreadable to me while the show expertly extracts good elements from it. I know the Punisher has become a US Cop/Fasc icon but Ennis Punisher is probably the best run of Punisher there ever will be and genuinely good. No frills.... its an old horribly broken Vet taking revenge on a world that failed everyone. There are no heroes, no good guys.... just people trying to survive in a world of predators. Very bleak but well written. The Ennis Punisher isn't jumping around like a ninja... he's an old beefy hard rear end who knows how to control the battlefield and lead you into claymores and mines. If that fails he just gets mean. I guess a grimier and more realistic John Wick? Might be a stretch but it is a wickedly good series that is equal parts noir and war with a dash of spy thriller. That was the last thing I read by Ennis and around the time I stopped reading comics in general. I'm guessing but the last thing I remember reading (before recently funny enough) was a little after Norm Osborne taking over Marvel/Dark Reign/Siege (which I LOVED), Ennis Punisher and Morrison writing Damien Wayne. But don't let Nazis or Garth Ennis stop you from checking it out. Be warned there was the really good Punisher and a short funny Punisher Ennis series that came right before that is very typical Ennis. I remember it being okay but nothing like the better grimdark Punisher that came later. If you see a Giant Russian Hitman with enormous boobs know you got the bad one. As Nero Danced posted:"The only man in the sky is me." That's a chilling line they better put in the show somewhere, if they don't use the whole scene. gently caress yes. Why does Ennis and his work have to be such a land of contrasts? Seriously Starr would MURDER this scene. MURDER!
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Oct 1, 2020 17:32
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DogsInSpace! posted:I know the Punisher has become a US Cop/Fasc icon but Ennis Punisher is probably the best run of Punisher there ever will be and genuinely good. No frills.... its an old horribly broken Vet taking revenge on a world that failed everyone. There are no heroes, no good guys.... just people trying to survive in a world of predators. Very bleak but well written. The Ennis Punisher isn't jumping around like a ninja... he's an old beefy hard rear end who knows how to control the battlefield and lead you into claymores and mines. If that fails he just gets mean. I guess a grimier and more realistic John Wick? Might be a stretch but it is a wickedly good series that is equal parts noir and war with a dash of spy thriller. That was the last thing I read by Ennis and around the time I stopped reading comics in general. I'm guessing but the last thing I remember reading (before recently funny enough) was a little after Norm Osborne taking over Marvel/Dark Reign/Siege (which I LOVED), Ennis Punisher and Morrison writing Damien Wayne. But don't let Nazis or Garth Ennis stop you from checking it out. Be warned there was the really good Punisher and a short funny Punisher Ennis series that came right before that is very typical Ennis. I remember it being okay but nothing like the better grimdark Punisher that came later. If you see a Giant Russian Hitman with enormous boobs know you got the bad one. sad question fucked around with this message at 18:18 on Oct 1, 2020 |
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Oct 1, 2020 18:15
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Fionordequester posted:So is he basically Frank Miller, then? No, Miller wrote some classics even if he went to batshit town near the end. Ennis is someone who likely never got over people calling him Penis due to his last name and went super edgy to compensate.
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Oct 1, 2020 19:16
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It's Thursday! That means new episode any moment!!!!!
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Oct 1, 2020 19:53
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:It's Thursday! That means new episode any moment!!!!! Usually in a few hours.
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Oct 1, 2020 19:55
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A key aspect of The Boys as a series is that Ennis is obviously enamoured with Butcher and his juvenile hard man bullshit while at the same time realizing he's also complete piece of poo poo who ultimately needs to be denounced. Miller never quite makes that leap with his tough guys.
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Oct 1, 2020 20:29
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Just realised this sequence really fucks up "how can I lift the plane, there's nothing to stand on". I mean his hands are just flat on the car. Other than that though, it's pretty strong characterisation. The other one I remember is Homelander flying naked from the big superhero-orgy and just lasering a passenger plane down for no reason other than kicks.
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Oct 1, 2020 22:08
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jabby posted:Just realised this sequence really fucks up "how can I lift the plane, there's nothing to stand on". I mean his hands are just flat on the car. TV Homelander is lampshading that whole trope of SuperGuy grabbing the Space Shuttle by a wing or the nose and being able to slow it down and gingerly placing it on the ground because  bioelectric aura/The Rescue Force  It's "there's no way for me to actually push back on it/hold it alotf" and "even if I did the singular pressure on the fuselage would crumple the structure in half/cause it to buckle"
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Oct 1, 2020 22:43
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TV Homelander is smarter than me because I still don't understand it. Why would he need to be on the ground to exert enough force to slow a plane?
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Oct 1, 2020 22:52
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jabby posted:Just realised this sequence really fucks up "how can I lift the plane, there's nothing to stand on". I mean his hands are just flat on the car. Isn't is revealed that that was Black Noir as well? One thing from the comics that isn't really present in the show is that in the comics it's not so much good/evil as competent/incompetent. Like the problem isn't that the supes are bad, it's that they have no loving idea what they are doing and get lit the gently caress up by the military at the end Although that might be some of the soldier worship that Ennis has a bit of in the comic. But gently caress am I grateful that the edge in the show is way toned down from the comics. Doing drugs cut with aborted fetuses or whatever that was just wasn't needed.
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Oct 1, 2020 22:52
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sad question posted:That's why while I can't defend any of the poo poo from The Boys that gets brought up in this thread, I still balk at comparing him with Miller. Ennis doesn't think that Punisher is a cool dude or that war is good and fun. I just meant he takes these things seriously unlike superheroes so that comics have more thought put into them than "what if Superman farted so hard that baby exploded" level of writing in The Boys. I hear ya sir and agree. I think he did a good job on Dan Dare. I want to say I remember it was a bit old school but fun but it was been like 15 years. Keltar posted:No, Miller wrote some classics even if he went to batshit town near the end. Ennis is someone who likely never got over people calling him Penis due to his last name and went super edgy to compensate. Miller really did go buggery bonkers at the end. I remember reading the All Star Batman when I was young. I loved Batman. Don't look at me like that as Batman is cool. Morrison was writing it and made me a giant fan of the comic and then I got to watch Sin City. It blew my mind. So I go to check out the classics and this guy recommends All Star Batman. The only thing I remember from that was an entire page of people yelling "Love Chunks" at Black Canary and a funny bit when Batman kidnaps Robin. I think I gave away that trade. Worse was that Holy Terror comic. Really awful hateful stuff that I'm shocked isn't being passed around at MAGA rallies. Why is Miller still around when Darwyn Cooke isn't? He was one of my favourite artists and a nice guy to meet. He gave free art to little kids no matter what they looked like and and I always appreciated that. 
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Oct 1, 2020 23:13
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PostNouveau posted:TV Homelander is smarter than me because I still don't understand it. Why would he need to be on the ground to exert enough force to slow a plane? Because his ability to lift things in flight only cares about the strength of his ability to fly, not using his strength to lift things. For example, the Hulk can't keep a plane steady in up in the air no matter how strong he is (other than repeatedly jumping up in the air and punching it i guess), because he has no ability to continue to exert force in the air since he can't fly.
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Oct 1, 2020 23:30
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PostNouveau posted:TV Homelander is smarter than me because I still don't understand it. Why would he need to be on the ground to exert enough force to slow a plane? The TV Homelander can straight up fly without needing to push off of anything or stand on anything. They show this at the end of S1E1. He absolutely could have saved the plane after he accidentally lasered the controls but he doesn't want to. The passengers are worthless ants to him and he immediately figures out that if the plane goes down and everyone dies it will be an even stronger argument for letting supes into the military than if he had just killed the hijackers and saved everyone. He is lying to Maeve in that scene. He absolutely could guide the plane to a safe landing or individually carry people down to boats in the ocean to save them before the plane crashed but he doesn't want to.
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Oct 1, 2020 23:58
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PostNouveau posted:TV Homelander is smarter than me because I still don't understand it. Why would he need to be on the ground to exert enough force to slow a plane? Well, its easy to take a sitting plane with no momentum and slowly lift it if you have the strength. If its already barreling through the air at 10,000 ft/s or whatever, opposing that momentum requires pushing much harder, which could compromise the structural integrity of the plane. The plane is also not a solid cube. Its possible that lifting it from below would allow you to better balance the force vs gravity as opposed to when its plunging head-first and you have to push back on the nose. FilthyImp posted:"even if I did the singular pressure on the fuselage would crumple the structure in half/cause it to buckle" But also Homelander is lazy and doesn't care
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Oct 2, 2020 00:22
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The most interesting thing about the comics rn is Stillwell for me. I really wanna know where his arc goes. I’m up to like volume 7 out of 12.
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Oct 2, 2020 00:34
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Zaphod42 posted:If its already barreling through the air at 10,000 ft/s if that plane is moving 10000 ft/s it has way bigger and more immediate problems than a damaged cockpit also where the gently caress my boys at
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Oct 2, 2020 00:41
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Romes128 posted:The most interesting thing about the comics rn is Stillwell for me. I really wanna know where his arc goes. I’m up to like volume 7 out of 12. "Bad product" I wish we had gotten that version of Stillwell, Homelander couldn't phase him in the slightest.
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Oct 2, 2020 00:46
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Keltar posted:"Bad product" Mr Edgar is Comics Stillwell.
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Oct 2, 2020 00:52
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Keltar posted:"Bad product" For a while I thought that's where they were going with Gus but Homelander already had a scene where he kind of told him to go gently caress himself so probably not.
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Oct 2, 2020 00:53
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:Mr Edgar is Comics Stillwell. I wouldn't say that, Homelander has no respect for Edgar and showed it in the tower. In the comic he'd wilt before Stillwell, if Stillwell said something, he buckled. Yeah you get a bit of that in the show but not to the same degree.
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Oct 2, 2020 00:54
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It's up! (Woo!)
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Oct 2, 2020 01:08
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Wheeee posted:if that plane is moving 10000 ft/s it has way bigger and more immediate problems than a damaged cockpit Ep just went up
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Oct 2, 2020 01:08
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Keltar posted:I wouldn't say that, Homelander has no respect for Edgar and showed it in the tower. In the comic he'd wilt before Stillwell, if Stillwell said something, he buckled. Yeah you get a bit of that in the show but not to the same degree. Really? In Season 1, every time Mr Edgar is referenced, Homelander is visibly shook. He also went docile when Stormfront said Mr Edgar had put her on the 7. The scene where Homelander mouths off to Mr Edgar was the first and only time he wasn't subservient to Mr Edgar, and the scene even ended with Homelander sulking and acting like a spanked kiddo!
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Oct 2, 2020 01:12
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Keep America Safe Again.
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Oct 2, 2020 01:12
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Piell posted:Because his ability to lift things in flight only cares about the strength of his ability to fly, not using his strength to lift things. For example, the Hulk can't keep a plane steady in up in the air no matter how strong he is (other than repeatedly jumping up in the air and punching it i guess), because he has no ability to continue to exert force in the air since he can't fly. Have you ever been walking somewhere, then started thinking about how you walk? Try it next time, it gets weird when you're manually aware of a process you normally do automatically: I assume super powers are like that. Man just grabs a car and takes off, normally not thinking about it or giving a poo poo. But when faced with a plane, in the middle of a stressful moment, he's forced to think about how he normally does that poo poo and his brain grinds to a halt and he gets confused.
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Oct 2, 2020 01:13
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As Nero Danced posted:Ep just went up Hell the gently caress yeah
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Oct 2, 2020 01:13
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What if Homelander was on a treadmill?
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Oct 2, 2020 01:13
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This opening sequence is hella creepy.
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Oct 2, 2020 01:15
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