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Eugh, Spender's one of those people that keeps his glasses on his bed.
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Oct 3, 2020 10:34
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So, this has interesting implications for the future from this point. I wonder if Spender started keeping secrets because he couldn't be sure who among his peers to trust, and then that just extended out to everyone eventually. I wonder if Mina had a hand in that, given this? And I wonder why BL couldn't have just asked them what happened instead of going through this elaborate pony show to try and get them to spill the details of their own free will? If they didn't have reason not to trust BL before this, they should've done so with no problem. And they certainly wouldn't have done so afterward. EDIT: Also, is it me, or does Spender's spectral energy seem more orange than yellow in those last two panels? neogeo0823 fucked around with this message at 13:13 on Oct 3, 2020 |
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Oct 3, 2020 13:10
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RareAcumen posted:Eugh, Spender's one of those people that keeps his glasses on his bed. and he's one of those people that keep books open upside-down instead of using a bookmark. Shameful, just unforgivably shameful.
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Oct 3, 2020 13:25
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neogeo0823 posted:So, this has interesting implications for the future from this point. I wonder if Spender started keeping secrets because he couldn't be sure who among his peers to trust, and then that just extended out to everyone eventually. I wonder if Mina had a hand in that, given this? And I wonder why BL couldn't have just asked them what happened instead of going through this elaborate pony show to try and get them to spill the details of their own free will? If they didn't have reason not to trust BL before this, they should've done so with no problem. And they certainly wouldn't have done so afterward. In this regard I think Mina is too smart for her own good. She can pick up on the fact that they were being led around a bit, but ignored the fact that Dr. Burger was actually present and that the Boss really was trying to give everyone some much needed contact. She understands that the boss is far too connected to things given the door to the other wight being right there; and that the Consortium's appearance afterwards came too late and they wield too much power with the dreamscape. But doesn't realize that the consortium are just trying to help them contain a potentially nuclear spirit and that on it's face, the current Boss Leader has no awareness of what she got saddled with from the previous administration. Nobody has a complete picture of what has happened and Mina thinks she can control everything despite being no older than 15. So for this moment, Mina absolutely is what enabled Spender's secrecy and I can imagine she provided constant warnings about keeping things close to chest over the years. But Spender himself also demonstrates that he's already in his Atlas mode and wants to shoulder all the burdens himself. He has a heavy sense of personal responsibility regarding all this so some of his secrecy is probably a naive thought about protecting others from danger. "The fewer people that know, the fewer that can get hurt" or something like that.
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Oct 3, 2020 14:05
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Kinda funny that this was framed as Spender having a flashback to a dream he can’t remember
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Oct 3, 2020 14:37
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Brought To You By posted:In this regard I think Mina is too smart for her own good. She can pick up on the fact that they were being led around a bit, but ignored the fact that Dr. Burger was actually present and that the Boss really was trying to give everyone some much needed contact. She understands that the boss is far too connected to things given the door to the other wight being right there; and that the Consortium's appearance afterwards came too late and they wield too much power with the dreamscape. But doesn't realize that the consortium are just trying to help them contain a potentially nuclear spirit and that on it's face, the current Boss Leader has no awareness of what she got saddled with from the previous administration. Nobody has a complete picture of what has happened and Mina thinks she can control everything despite being no older than 15. You're forgetting that Boss Leader has pretty much absolute control over the dream world and can bend reality there to her whim. Who says Dr. Burger was actually present? If she erases everyone's memories, did she really give them much needed contact? Someone like that is pretty much impossible to trust if you're paranoid.
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Oct 3, 2020 15:30
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Cup Runneth Over posted:You're forgetting that Boss Leader has pretty much absolute control over the dream world and can bend reality there to her whim. Who says Dr. Burger was actually present? If she erases everyone's memories, did she really give them much needed contact? Someone like that is pretty much impossible to trust if you're paranoid. Unless Boss Leader was projecting her own sub-conscious, this page shows the Dr having a heart to heart with the Boss who looks to be losing her own grip on herself in the scuffle. But yes, it's no secret why someone like Mina does not trust the dream overlord.
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Oct 3, 2020 15:51
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I think the point is that we, the readers, know that bit was real but Mina has no reason to trust any of it (and depending on what she recalls, a lot of reasons to trust none of it)
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Oct 3, 2020 16:24
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flatluigi posted:I think the point is that we, the readers, know that bit was real but Mina has no reason to trust any of it (and depending on what she recalls, a lot of reasons to trust none of it) 
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Oct 3, 2020 16:51
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Cup Runneth Over posted:If she erases everyone's memories, did she really give them much needed contact? Someone like that is pretty much impossible to trust if you're paranoid. The thing is, BL didn't seem to want to have erased as much as she did until Mina basically showed her entire hand to someone who already has near-unlimited control and power where they were. Had Mina just quietly seethed I think BL would have left their memories more intact, specifically because it would have been more likely to lead them to trust her. But now BL knows Mina is far too nosy and volatile and is just removing her from the whole process. And now Spender loses out too, so this may be the start of the wedge in their relationship.
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Oct 3, 2020 21:41
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The timing of this comic and Tiger Tiger is amusing Kept expecting her efforts to write this stuff down to turn out like this.  https://www.tigertigercomic.com/tiger-tiger/312 Screencap stolen from the webcomics thread.
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Oct 3, 2020 21:53
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sockpuppy died from being terminally cute, rip
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Oct 3, 2020 22:20
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Paranatural: Everyone is bad at thier jobs!
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Oct 4, 2020 00:24
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RareAcumen posted:Paranatural: Everyone is bad at thier jobs! 
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Oct 4, 2020 02:03
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Mina sucks, be less paranoid for crying out loud
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Oct 4, 2020 07:30
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Being paranoid honestly seems like the smartest thing to do in a situation where everyone refused to tell you the truth.
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Oct 4, 2020 16:42
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Baller Ina posted:Mina sucks, be less paranoid for crying out loud But yeah it'd be nice if Mina was less paranoid, Spender was less of a martyr, and everyone actually sat down and talked to each other like adults about the information they have and how it fits together. At this point it seems like it'd take something pretty bad to force that to happen, but being trapped in Mayview as things heat up might be a good first step! PetraCore fucked around with this message at 22:00 on Oct 4, 2020 |
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Oct 4, 2020 21:57
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Baller Ina posted:Mina sucks, be less paranoid for crying out loud "Just be less paranoid lol"
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Oct 4, 2020 22:01
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Cup Runneth Over posted:"Just be less paranoid lol" Isabel grabbing Mina's head: "Stop being paranoid"
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Oct 4, 2020 22:22
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PetraCore posted:But yeah it'd be nice everyone actually sat down and talked to each other like adults about the information they have and how it fits together. have you ever spoken to people before
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Oct 4, 2020 22:45
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Let's be serious, BL is mindwiping children. They're completely unworthy of trust.
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Oct 4, 2020 23:03
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Who What Now posted:Being paranoid honestly seems like the smartest thing to do in a situation where everyone refused to tell you the truth. Unfortunately, Boss Leader was telling her the truth, and Mina ruined her opportunity to learn more of it by being so paranoid and distrustful. She called out Boss Leader on how they weren't being told about what's going on, BL decided to be upfront with what they're facing (likely for the kids' own good at that), then after establishing how extremely serious things are asked for their help in return. In complete sincerity rather than her usual obfuscating goofiness at that, judging by her true facing peeking through her bandages there. Mina's response was to throw her attempt at honesty back in her face and accuse her of manipulating them. Some of her concerns are valid, like the extreme power imbalance in their relationship with BL, but other things are just her assuming the worst (and the dream thing is kind of the only way BL can interact with them at all, so it's hard to get around that). Somewhat ironically, her lack of trust here demonstrated that she can't be trusted, because she's all take and no give. She's so mistrusting that Boss Leader giving her exactly what she wanted and then some made her angrier and even more suspicious of BL. That kind of attitude is basically impossible to work with, which is probably a big part of why BL aborted the dream there; Mina made it clear that she would never be satisfied with whatever answers she was given. PetraCore posted:We have no idea what exactly happened to them when they were 13 but it's been strongly implied to be massively traumatizing. Mina's paranoia and drive for control of the situation is a trauma reaction, and BL accidentally cemented that here by being a huge weirdo. I like that her paranoia is played as both an understandable coping mechanism for whatever she's been through, and as a defining character flaw that left her icing out everyone else and trying to solve everything on her own, unsuccessfully. Even Spender is out of the loop on her work, 10 years later. Patchworm even called her out on this when she was angry about Spender keeping secrets from her, pointing out that she's not being honest or open with him either. Also worth noting, on the topic of coping mechanisms and reactions to trauma, is how one of the things she's known for in-universe is being able to control spirits others can't, and that all the spirits she's created that we have some idea of the powers for seem to be based around controlling things (also reflected in at least some of their names, i.e. Hijack and Hotwire). One could also point to her refusal to entrust the lantern to Francisco and his student, but Francisco's a big jerk so I don't blame her for refusing there (even if in hindsight it would have probably been better since Penny wouldn't have been able to steal it then; the old man's going to be insufferable about how he was right if he ever finds out about that). Rand Brittain posted:Let's be serious, BL is mindwiping children. They're completely unworthy of trust. They're probably being mindwiped because Mina's response to "wights are uncontrollable, unfathomably dangerous spirits that absolutely require us to work together to properly deal with," was to push BL away and make it extremely clear that she intends to keep trying to solve the problem on her own, which is the exact opposite of what she should do. I'm pretty sure that BL's worried that Mina is going to get herself, Spender, and/or other people killed. She tried to give the kids a warning, realized that instead they were going to be even more likely to chase down the danger with what they learned, and tried, apparently at least somewhat unsuccessfully, to undo it before things got even worse. Not the best way of handling things, perhaps, but given that BL can't do anything physically to stop Mina from running off to her death at the hands of whatever's trapped in Mayview, well... On the general topic of this post, it's also important to remember BL hasn't been running things that long at this point, being a relatively recent host to Sandman and all; she might actually even be newer to supernatural stuff in general than Spender and Zarei, given that they knew the last Boss Leader, or at least were around when she was running things, while the current BL suggested that she only knew her predecessor secondhand ("So I've heard" when talking about her being buff, which would imply not having even seen the woman) and that she became a spectral as a result of Sandman's possession, since that's when she says she learned about wights. A lot of what's being held against her are things she didn't do herself and inherited when she was given (through possession that put her into a permanent coma) the position, and she seems to be trying to untangle it and figure things out herself. Edit: To be clear, I like Mina a lot, and she's one of my favorite characters in the comic even; I just think that her response here was... Not ideal, even if it's understandable given what she's going through and had to deal with. She's also a teenager for this scene, at least, which probably isn't helping things. Roland Jones fucked around with this message at 02:07 on Oct 5, 2020 |
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Oct 4, 2020 23:10
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Bleck posted:have you ever spoken to people before
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Oct 4, 2020 23:26
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Roland Jones posted:Good analysis I don't have anything to add to this, this is just a nice look at the characters. I'm really looking forward to what the next few flashbacks bring. Assuming we're going clockwise, the next one is "issac"-focused; i'm guessing isntead of the dimitri schism it'll be about them defeating King C (since the storm rolling into mayview with a little king c on the side is the focus) and Issac becoming a medium.
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Oct 5, 2020 01:36
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Bleck posted:have you ever spoken to people before Yes, it's true and accurate but imagine if they laid all their cards on the table and got in the same page and then combined their powers to defeat their enemy together. When Zach introduces the nigh-invincible shonen martial artist character and Boss Leader masters dreaming while awake a la the Bone comics, this story's gonna be wild in 15 years.
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Oct 5, 2020 01:51
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rannum posted:I don't have anything to add to this, this is just a nice look at the characters. I'm really looking forward to what the next few flashbacks bring. Assuming we're going clockwise, the next one is "issac"-focused; i'm guessing isntead of the dimitri schism it'll be about them defeating King C (since the storm rolling into mayview with a little king c on the side is the focus) and Issac becoming a medium. Yeah, that's what I'm figuring happens next too. Also thanks. On the topic of Mina analysis, I just realized the irony here in Mina accusing BL of having ulterior motives in bringing them there, given that in the present she's doing stuff like treating Isabel's injury in order to get more info on Spender (though Patchworm suggests that she does actually care and want to help too, despite Mina's protests to the contrary). Did she grow up into something she disliked as a kid, or was there at least a little projection in her accusations? Her and Spender both are apparently already keeping (serious, potentially dangerous) secrets of their own. Regarding Boss Leader herself, meanwhile, something I recently noticed is that in this flashback, her text isn't the faded white that she has in the present. I wonder if that's something that's developed in the time since then, whether as a result of something like being possessed by Sandman starting to affect her, or something more like deteriorating health; the Consortium appears to have gone through a lot of Boss Leaders, and given that it's apparently not something you stop being until you die, unless they've been around for over a century or two (or at least some of the past Boss Leaders were on the older side when they were "chosen"), it seems like they have a tendency towards dying rather young. Possibly because being in a coma isn't good for you. (Or maybe Zack just forgot, though given how many pages she's been in this chapter it seems like it's probably deliberate.) There are a lot of well-intentioned people forced into confusing, dangerous circumstances and keeping secrets from those best-equipped to help them in this comic. The Activity Club's kids pledging to keep each other filled in on everything no matter what at the end of chapter 5 hopefully represents a break in that cycle. Roland Jones fucked around with this message at 03:08 on Oct 5, 2020 |
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Oct 5, 2020 03:04
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https://twitter.com/paranaturalzack/status/1312922645298507777?s=21
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Oct 5, 2020 03:13
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Roland Jones posted:Yeah, that's what I'm figuring happens next too. I'd also imagine that having the immense power and force of a wight weighing on your mind at all times must be physically draining over time.
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Oct 5, 2020 03:35
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Zack wrote for a video game
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Oct 13, 2020 06:11
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SKULL.GIF posted:Zack wrote for a video game medibot streamed it for a bit the other day if you want a look.
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Oct 14, 2020 14:12
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Chapter 7, Page 22.
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Oct 17, 2020 03:46
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Isabel just wants to be appreciated. 
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Oct 17, 2020 09:48
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Cool how Spender's spirit gloves fit, well, like a glove, where everyone else's sort of taper off into bits of energy or are less defined shapes. We've heard that spender is ta6 with this stuff but he's usually shown as bumbling so stuff like that is nice
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Oct 17, 2020 16:47
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ta6?
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Oct 17, 2020 18:00
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Countblanc posted:Cool how Spender's spirit gloves fit, well, like a glove, where everyone else's sort of taper off into bits of energy or are less defined shapes. We've heard that spender is ta6 with this stuff but he's usually shown as bumbling so stuff like that is nice Good observation, presumably he used to be less of an emotional wreck.
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Oct 17, 2020 18:05
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Cup Runneth Over posted:Good observation, presumably he used to be less of an emotional wreck. I mean if the last flashback is any indication i think he has always been an emotional wreck, he's just also a bumbling prodigy with spectral energy he's the shonen protagonist issac dreams of being
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Oct 17, 2020 22:10
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rannum posted:he's the shonen protagonist issac dreams of being And it sucks. I really like Spender as character, poor guy has more baggage than a commercial flight but is genuinely trying in his horribly misguided attempts to shoulder everything. He's been done dirty by every authority figure in his life, even if he doesn't realize it, of course it messed him up. And he's very close to failing his students in the very same way. Hopefully Rick gets some time to turn things around, I really like him as a character. Cup Runneth Over posted:Good observation, presumably he used to be less of an emotional wreck. Despite being a huge huge goober, Spender actually is super talented and good at spectral stuff (usually). The problem is, what he's doing is usually dumb, like trying to pick a fight with forge or solve deep conspiracies solo.
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Oct 18, 2020 00:55
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Filthy Haiku posted:And it sucks. I think he absolutely will, if only so we get a proper go after Hijack-Spender trying to open up to Isabel
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Oct 18, 2020 03:22
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Filthy Haiku posted:
TBF he managed to more or less insta-gib Forge the second he actually tried. His problem with that fight was willingly letting himself get beat to hell and back for the chance at some info.
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Oct 18, 2020 04:01
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Filthy Haiku posted:He's been done dirty by every authority figure in his life, even if he doesn't realize it, of course it messed him up. And he's very close to failing his students in the very same way. Hopefully Rick gets some time to turn things around, I really like him as a character. In fact this very chapter seems to be Rick reflecting on exactly how the authority figures in his life have been failing him! I would be shocked if we didn't exit "Mr. Spender and the Activity Club" without Spender resolving to do a better job of mentoring the Activity Club.
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Oct 18, 2020 04:07
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