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Guavanaut posted:All the conspiracies are part of one thing that branches off of itself like mercury being heated in a tank. properly baffled by how they admit cointelpro and MKultra are real but then she puts the US deep state in the realm of unapproachably antisemitic crankery, lol. who does she think is behind operation CHAOS, lmao.
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Oct 5, 2020 12:14
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I think that's just the state, nothing deep about it.
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Oct 5, 2020 12:15
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justcola posted:bahahaha, loving hell. How do they even know it's only 16k cases they've missed? Secro frantically looking for the "=/0" somewhere in the data.
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Oct 5, 2020 12:15
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https://twitter.com/drphilhammond/status/1313075184975347718?s=19
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Oct 5, 2020 12:16
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I would hazard a guess that there are exactly 16384 missing cases
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Oct 5, 2020 12:19
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OwlFancier posted:I think that's just the state, nothing deep about it. there is actually a definition of what a deep state and deep politics are, and the concept(s) should be perfectly uncontroversial in 2020. we've seen plenty of examples of them in action by this point. really weird graph this, idk how a leftist finds herself putting the assassination of MLK and fred hampton on the same spectrum of crankery as roswell and the illuminati.
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Oct 5, 2020 12:24
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gh0stpinballa posted:there is actually a definition of what a deep state and deep politics are, and the concept(s) should be perfectly uncontroversial in 2020. we've seen plenty of examples of them in action by this point. really weird graph this, idk how a leftist finds herself putting the assassination of MLK and fred hampton on the same spectrum of crankery as roswell and the illuminati. what is the non-insane definition of the deep state
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Oct 5, 2020 12:25
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Or even JFK. that's well beyond the "asking questions" stage, the official narrative makes no sense and falls apart under any scrutiny. Well-intentioned graph with poor execution
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Oct 5, 2020 12:25
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Necrothatcher posted:what is the non-insane definition of the deep state well you see parliament are voting on it today
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Oct 5, 2020 12:27
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Failed Imagineer posted:https://twitter.com/LGBTCons/status/1312429120287059970?s=19 Necrothatcher posted:what is the non-insane definition of the deep state just doesn't sound cool&edgy enough
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Oct 5, 2020 12:28
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Borrovan posted:the civil service a truly bad movie level twist as I discover that I was the deep state all along.
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Oct 5, 2020 12:30
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Jose posted:to add to this: the reason that it reached its maximum size is they were tracking each individual case by column not row
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Oct 5, 2020 12:32
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Bobby Deluxe posted:Can you explain for the non computer touchers in the background why this is the bad? Because Excel can have like a million rows but in just over 16,000 columns, presumably Microsoft made assumptions due the common standard being to use a row for each record and columns for their fields.
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Oct 5, 2020 12:34
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Necrothatcher posted:what is the non-insane definition of the deep state See P2 in Italy during the Cold War, and various Turkish nationalist groups during the same period, especially containing members of the military and security services. See the coups when governments were deemed as not suitably living up to Ataturkist beliefs. It's the notion of "state within the state", made of civil servants and the armed forces and other groups in government and perhaps business and media interests lacking democratic accountability but working to retain the status quo. See for example the British general who openly talked about the military rising up if Corbyn became PM.
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Oct 5, 2020 12:34
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Bobby Deluxe posted:Can you explain for the non computer touchers in the background why this is the bad? Max number of columns in Excel is: 16,384 Max number of rows is: 1,048,576 So if each person takes up a column, you can only monitor 16383 people (assuming the first column is for 'headings') but you can store over a million pieces of data about each person (counting rows down)... aha this is why they used columns, they'll paste all your comments criticizing the govt in all the rest of the rows.
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Oct 5, 2020 12:35
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gh0stpinballa posted:there is actually a definition of what a deep state and deep politics are, and the concept(s) should be perfectly uncontroversial in 2020. we've seen plenty of examples of them in action by this point. really weird graph this, idk how a leftist finds herself putting the assassination of MLK and fred hampton on the same spectrum of crankery as roswell and the illuminati. I think you can believe there is institutional inertia in the political structures of a country but when people go on about the "deep state" I have never known them to mean anything other than secret shadow government puppeteering the actual government and all the bad things are just the fault of the deep state rather than just what the actual state wants to do. Basically until the state and the embedded politics of the people who operate it actually diverge to the point that the public facing members of the state lose the ability to pursue their political goals, there's very little utility in the term, IMO. Like it's a thing that can hypothetically exist but it isn't a thing that actually exists in any anglo country in the past several decades, if not longer. Going on about it is invariably an effort to falsely disclaim the actual politics of the actual state you actually elected (and it's always the right doing it) OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 12:38 on Oct 5, 2020 |
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Oct 5, 2020 12:36
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Necrothatcher posted:what is the non-insane definition of the deep state The conspiracy version of the Deep State referred to there is that they are a hypercompetent monolith that can only be stopped from trafficking children by Donald J. Trump. I wonder if there's a second order conspiracy to put out the idea that the state organs are a hypercompetent monolith rather than a loving mess. Noxville posted:Because Excel can have like a million rows but in just over 16,000 columns, presumably Microsoft made assumptions due the common standard being to use a row for each record and columns for their fields. It's like finding out someone eats food with a trowel or something, it's bizarre.
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Oct 5, 2020 12:38
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Necrothatcher posted:what is the non-insane definition of the deep state roughly, it's an intersecting nexus of political and business actors, intelligence agencies and organised crime that operates outside the control or awareness of democratic society. the term originated in turkey but i'd be shocked if most ostensibly democratic capitalist societies don't have some variant of one. in the US there are way too many examples to list here; britain similarly has had operations that fit the definition. clockwork orange, MI5 breaking the miners strike or le cercle are probably the most notorious examples of a deep state interfering in UK politics; the story of robert maxwell would be another. it's more than just run of the mill corruption, and it doesn't require outlandish talk of people in hooded robes doing satanic rituals. it's just what real power looks like, the kind that you can't vote in or out. corbyn would have almost certainly had to confront it at some point, because they were continually implying they would do a coup or kill him if he got into no 10.
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Oct 5, 2020 12:39
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I had an idea for a meme but can't find an image. One of those WW2 'situation' rooms where women in uniform are pushing little tanks or flags around on a map only it could be mini-people with covid-19 infections.
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Oct 5, 2020 12:42
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what is the deep state I ask in a country that had a major scandal because undercover cops were infiltrating climate groups and having years long relationships and children with members of those groups
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Oct 5, 2020 12:43
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A better term for the UK would be the Crown, because it's literally right there and has secret meetings in the privy council and nobody's allowed to view the notes or even who's in attendance, and most of the competing power organs of state are granted legitimacy through it.
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Oct 5, 2020 12:43
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i bet they did patient per column because they couldn't find the switch axis option when building charts out of the data
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Oct 5, 2020 12:44
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Doccykins posted:i bet they did patient per column because they couldn't find the switch axis option when building charts out of the data Depressingly plausible
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Oct 5, 2020 12:45
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Jose posted:what is the deep state I ask in a country that had a major scandal because undercover cops were infiltrating climate groups and having years long relationships and children with members of those groups That's a weird thing to call "the deep state" when the tories are literally pushing a bill to make it legal for undercover cops to do anything they want, though. That's the state. As was breaking the miners strikes, that's what they avertise, that's what they want, that's what their supporters want.
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Oct 5, 2020 12:45
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gh0stpinballa posted:roughly, it's an intersecting nexus of political and business actors, intelligence agencies and organised crime that operates outside the control or awareness of democratic society. the term originated in turkey but i'd be shocked if most ostensibly democratic capitalist societies don't have some variant of one. in the US there are way too many examples to list here; britain similarly has had operations that fit the definition. clockwork orange, MI5 breaking the miners strike or le cercle are probably the most notorious examples of a deep state interfering in UK politics; the story of robert maxwell would be another. "Deep State" in this context though refers to the right wing conspiracy theory in the US that a bunch of (((liberals))) and (((communists))) in the government are blocking Donald Trump from doing what he wants to do, and that's the reason none of his election promises have happened, rather than him just being an incompetent sack of poo poo.
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Oct 5, 2020 12:45
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Columns go up and down, rows go side to side. You tend to have lists of stuff in rows then each column would be a different category for that thing - for instance I might have a list of people then each column would be stuff like postcode, background, date they had been entered onto the system etc. Basically it's the wrong way round and, even if you insisted on using Excel to keep track of patients during a pandemic and had been paid tens of millions of pounds to do so, you'd have thought they could lay out a table properly.
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Oct 5, 2020 12:46
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gh0stpinballa posted:roughly, it's an intersecting nexus of political and business actors, intelligence agencies and organised crime that operates outside the control or awareness of democratic society. the term originated in turkey but i'd be shocked if most ostensibly democratic capitalist societies don't have some variant of one. in the US there are way too many examples to list here; britain similarly has had operations that fit the definition. clockwork orange, MI5 breaking the miners strike or le cercle are probably the most notorious examples of a deep state interfering in UK politics; the story of robert maxwell would be another. That feels like more 'the establishment' than a deep state - and it's not exactly news that British politics and life is heavily influenced by old Etonians literally and metaphorically jerking each other off. I guess there's the difference between a 'deep state' which seems like an umbrella term for unelected actors with societal influence and "THE DEEP STATE" conspiracy in which shadowy communist billionaires are enacting evil schemes to dilute the purity of the white race and only the crusading Donald Trump can defeat them.
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Oct 5, 2020 12:46
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And we have plenty of other ways to describe the ways the state and its institutions are hostile to leftists without borrowing the insane trump people's term?
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Oct 5, 2020 12:47
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My understanding of the deep state is its just the part of the state that doesn't change after elections. So almost all of it
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Oct 5, 2020 12:47
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I believe the deep state was referred to as Atlantis!!!!!!! 
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Oct 5, 2020 12:49
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OwlFancier posted:That's a weird thing to call "the deep state" when the tories are literally pushing a bill to make it legal for undercover cops to do anything they want, though.
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Oct 5, 2020 12:52
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OwlFancier posted:And we have plenty of other ways to describe the ways the state and its institutions are hostile to leftists without borrowing the insane trump people's term? If the phrase is popular, use it imo. We don't have to keep trying to come up with less popular phrases when people roughly can conclude you mean shady powerful people who aren't on the telly on first hearing it, rather than some kind of academic phrasing or calling them "the establishment" or whatever unresonant phrase. Plenty of people will think you're a raving conspiracist just for saying papers and politicians lie, so there's no point being worried about them.
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Oct 5, 2020 12:52
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OwlFancier posted:I think you can believe there is institutional inertia in the political structures of a country but when people go on about the "deep state" I have never known them to mean anything other than secret shadow government puppeteering the actual government and all the bad things are just the fault of the deep state rather than just what the actual state wants to do. i'm sorry but that's just not what it means at all. they don't secretly manage the day to day affairs of a state, they aren't all powerful. what you're talking about is just illuminati stuff. i'm talking about the standard definition, not the qanon psycho version, which is a group or groups operating without scrutiny in a democratic society and occasionally directly intervening to attempt to influence the outcome of a given thing. Guavanaut posted:The security services are definitely covering up lot of bad poo poo, but most of that is from incompetence and because they keep letting in nonces. i mean this is a separate thing to chatting about a deep state or whatever, but i've noticed we keep telling ourselves that our political actors and big business and the security services are incompetent, but they keep getting exactly what they want whenever they want it. today MI5 are probably gonna get the right to rape and kill w impunity, and last year they all got the annihilation of a labour party with a redistributive agenda and a new leader who is a knight of the realm and sat on the trilateral commission. i think we keep underestimating the enemy tbh.
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Oct 5, 2020 12:53
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OwlFancier posted:And we have plenty of other ways to describe the ways the state and its institutions are hostile to leftists without borrowing the insane trump people's term? it's not a term that originated with the qanon people, where are you getting all this from.
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Oct 5, 2020 12:54
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Communist Thoughts posted:If the phrase is popular, use it imo. I don't... really want to be associated with the people who think there is a secret jewish cabal running the US to put commulist gay hormones in the cereals and that's why we both need donald trump and also why all the bad stuff is still happening, though? Like we're describing completely different things? How is it beneficial to boost some right wing loony idea when you're gonna argue literally the opposite?
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Oct 5, 2020 12:55
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Communist Thoughts posted:If the phrase is popular, use it imo. It just seems like a bad idea to normalise Trump/QAnon terminology is all.
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Oct 5, 2020 12:56
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gh0stpinballa posted:i mean this is a separate thing to chatting about a deep state or whatever, but i've noticed we keep telling ourselves that our political actors and big business and the security services are incompetent, but they keep getting exactly what they want whenever they want it. today MI5 are probably gonna get the right to rape and kill w impunity, and last year they all got the annihilation of a labour party with a redistributive agenda and a new leader who is a knight of the realm and sat on the trilateral commission. i think we keep underestimating the enemy tbh.
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Oct 5, 2020 12:56
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:I had an idea for a meme but can't find an image. Will these help?   They're RAF Plotters if that term is helpful.
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Oct 5, 2020 12:57
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:Max number of columns in Excel is: 16,384 Which makes you wonder why on earth, in 2020, they are using a 14(!) bit integer in their codebase to index their columns. It's the future! Bits are cheap! Treat yourself to a uint64_t!
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Oct 5, 2020 12:57
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Communist Thoughts posted:My understanding of the deep state is its just the part of the state that doesn't change after elections. So almost all of it This is the entirety of it, yes. Other interpretations mean you are letting Q seep into your brain
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Oct 5, 2020 12:58
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