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Hekk posted:Request Mast Yeah, do that if you really cannot find a suitable way to communicate with anyone above a JO or junior sailor https://www.jag.navy.mil/documents/NJS/Quickman.pdf quote:REQUEST MAST AND COMPLAINTS OF WRONG
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Sep 25, 2020 03:43
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Alright, thanks guys.
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Sep 25, 2020 04:26
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SpaceSDoorGunner posted:Alright, thanks guys. As someone that's requested Mast before, I hope it works out for you. I requested mast because we were leaving on deployment but we were scheduled to more or less circle Hawaii for three weeks (!) waiting for the Lincoln to join us, and my daughter was literally days away from being born. I was told verbatim "We need you here as a Display Tech, we literally can't run the ship with only *checks notes* four other Display techs. At least the CO gave me the time of day at least. He retired as a rear admiral! EDIT: lmao he's now working for a DoD consulting firm in DC. gently caress nepotism (I say as I collect nepotism civilian paychecks).
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Sep 25, 2020 04:36
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PneumonicBook posted:As someone that's requested Mast before, I hope it works out for you. gently caress man that’s much worse than my situation. That’s the reason I swore I’d never have kids until I’m out. I’m not missing that so some fuckboy can have all is eval bullets now that I’m at a point where I have a gently caress you money fund as long as I continue to live cheap.
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Sep 25, 2020 04:57
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SpaceSDoorGunner posted:Alright, thanks guys. So real talk here. You have to balance your desire for justice with self preservation here too. Officially, there can be no retaliation for a service member exercising their right to request mast. Unofficially, there is lots of grey area that pissed off leaders can get away with dancing in. I found that in my younger years me being right and my desire to make other people admit that I was right was much stronger than it is now that I am so close to retiring. In the Marine Corps we toss around a phrase sometimes, not sure if Sailors use the same jargon or not but we ask ourselves "Is this a hill I am willing to die on?" If it is, by all means exercise your rights and have it addressed. However, know that there is not always a benevolent overseer that is going to right wrongs and sometimes it's more like the Simpsons monkey paw. The thing gets fixed but not in the way you were expecting.
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Sep 25, 2020 05:13
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SpaceSDoorGunner posted:gently caress man that’s much worse than my situation. That’s the reason I swore I’d never have kids until I’m out. I’m not missing that so some fuckboy can have all is eval bullets now that I’m at a point where I have a gently caress you money fund as long as I continue to live cheap. It is and it isnt. It seems like this guy is really loving with your mental health which is pretty important. I'm not going to say that my now 12 year old gives me poo poo for missing her birth but...lol. Hekk posted:So real talk here. You have to balance your desire for justice with self preservation here too. Officially, there can be no retaliation for a service member exercising their right to request mast. Unofficially, there is lots of grey area that pissed off leaders can get away with dancing in. So this is really good advice too but on the other hand it seems like maybe it can't get worse? Although I guess it can literally always get worse.
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Sep 25, 2020 05:17
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Saying it can't get worse pretty much guarantees it.
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Sep 25, 2020 05:25
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SpaceSDoorGunner posted:gently caress man that’s much worse than my situation. That’s the reason I swore I’d never have kids until I’m out. I’m not missing that so some fuckboy can have all is eval bullets now that I’m at a point where I have a gently caress you money fund as long as I continue to live cheap. drat man, I hope it gets better for you.
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Sep 25, 2020 06:56
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Request mast is not the solution to a lovely LPO, especially when your LCPO has already put a stop to some of his poo poo. Request mast is for when you have already tried to seek resolution via every single member of the chain of command between you and the CO and have not been successful, or if, like, the XO is hazing you, or the CMEO is making racist comments towards you. It sounds like your complaint is "My LPO doesn't like me and he treats me unfairly but within the bounds of Naval regulations" to which your CO is going to think "why the gently caress is this guy wasting my time, no wonder his LPO doesn't like him." This is how your request mast will go: CO: Have you spoken to your division officer about this? SDG: No CO: Why? SDG: I couldn't figure out how to see him CO: Did you go to his office? SDG: No CO: Did you send him an email? SDG: No CO: Did you call his office? SDG: No CO: What actions did you take to attempt to talk to him? SDG: ... CO: Have you spoken to your department chief about this? ...
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Sep 25, 2020 15:50
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Cerekk posted:Request mast is not the solution to a lovely LPO, especially when your LCPO has already put a stop to some of his poo poo. Request mast is for when you have already tried to seek resolution via every single member of the chain of command between you and the CO and have not been successful, or if, like, the XO is hazing you, or the CMEO is making racist comments towards you. It sounds like your complaint is "My LPO doesn't like me and he treats me unfairly but within the bounds of Naval regulations" to which your CO is going to think "why the gently caress is this guy wasting my time, no wonder his LPO doesn't like him." Request mast specifically compels all leaders in the service member’s chain of command to offer to assist in the resolution of their grievances. It’s up to the service member to determine whether they want to work with anyone before talking with their CO (or first general officer in the Marine Corps). He could request mast and work out issues with the Dept Head. In that case, he’d never even see the CO but you can bet your rear end the Dept Head is going to be having conversations with the CO about why one of their Sailors felt it necessary to request mast.
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Sep 25, 2020 16:08
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I think cultures are different in different communities, but then authority Hekk describes is there and your CoC probably knows it. At certain commands calling for mast will work, at others you'd be perceived as going nuclear. As a DIVO I would have wanted to know about this, but there may not have been much I could have done specifically. I recall having a really bad LPO at one command and the mess and the 2nd classes conspiring together to maneuver around him while letting him run quarters, manage to do lists, and that's about it. In my two sea tours, I haven't seen anybody formally request mast and I think it would have been very serious business if someone had. Access to the CO, XO, DH, CMC, and DIVO was also very easy on each of my tours, so it would definitely read as a letter from my [sea] lawyer. This probably isn't the case at larger commands. I've also always been closely involved with the happenings of my divisions because all m8y divisons were <12 people, so my experience probably isn't representative. If the call for mast is daunting, I think requesting mast will seem more appropriate to the peoples whose opinions you care about between the LPO and the CO if you were to successively request meetings with each member of your chain of command in increasing succession and talked about the issues and demonstrated working through them as Cerekk said before calling for mast. Id even say something like I was planning on requesting mast, but wanted to talk to you first. The problem with this solution is that at each one of those steps the leader will try to convince you and themselves that they can handle it. They'll need time to try and/or find out whether they can or can't. Your LPO will know but is hopefully smart enough not to take retribution (he won't be) and nothing will move for a while. But LCPO, knowing you're talking to DIVO next will try to grease the skids for DIVO and there will be conversations you dont hear about. DIVO will try to do the same thing to the DH, etc. That said: I think Hekk's right, both about weighing the cost (definitely think in terms of PRDs). If you do it, let chief know you wanna request mast, that its gone too far, but if chief says woah woah woah, let's talk to DIVO or DH first, you probably should. piL fucked around with this message at 17:18 on Sep 25, 2020 |
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Sep 25, 2020 17:15
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As a CO, I can tell you that what Hekk said is correct. I can also say that the burden of proof to get me to shift someone to a different division or department is pretty drat high. "Being a lovely person," isn't enough. If you brought documented cases of chits and packages not being routed, or the LPO denying requests that, by instruction, they aren't authorised to deny then I would still be much more inclined to fire the LPO then to reassign a sailor to a different division. Before requesting anything you better pound the pavement and go to find/see your LDPO, DIVO, DLCPO, DH, and CMC. Even if they don't do anything, because I can tell you that if you haven't tried them first the odds of me giving you a fair shot at a requested mast are low. I can also say that if communicating with your chain of command is as impossible as you say it is then requesting mast isn't going to be helpful anyway because the command is already broken as an organization.
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Sep 26, 2020 16:10
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https://twitter.com/DuffelBlog/status/1309810083711324161?s=19 At my last active command almost a decade ago, my N2A did this and he was a frat bro from the Academy.
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Sep 26, 2020 21:52
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Unfortunately it sounds like you're in a hospital or clinic in which case good luck because medical people are not good at playing naval officer most of the time. There's been a lot of good advice here. How hard have you tried, truly, to try to get this lpo to treat you like a person? Multiple unrouted request chits should be enough to get at least the division/dh level involved.
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Sep 27, 2020 03:43
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maffew buildings posted:do chiefs fleet wide just attempt to cut officers out of everything so they can be broke brained idiots that abuse personnel due to their own ineptitude? Super late to this but I've been amazed at how many officers are more than happy to let this happen to them. Navy officer selection screens for time management and basic initiative, not for spines. Nick Soapdish posted:At my last active command almost a decade ago, my N2A did this and he was a frat bro from the Academy. I hate this phenomenon so much. It gets everywhere. On every post-deployment oubrief, then it gets suffused into the senior N2's expectations because whoever was bragging made it seem like their normal output. After my cruise I did a retrospective on our analysis shop's assessments: they (we for a while) were wrong 83% of the time, meaning we were doing worse than if we'd just flipped a coin every day. Not that it stopped our leadership from claiming victory and winning awards.
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Sep 27, 2020 18:12
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A MA just killed himself in the last 24 hours in Gaeta. Sigh.
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Sep 28, 2020 14:59
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Got some skirt steak from the commissary for tacos and while it looked of beef, cooked like beef and had the texture of beef, it was completely without flavor. I cannot overemphasize that enough. It was like having a massive headcold where you can't taste a thing. I could taste the seasonings but no other flavor. Tofu with a steak texture i guess. Totally bizzarre factory battery beef. I should know better but i let the price trick me.
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Sep 28, 2020 15:03
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King of Bees posted:Got some skirt steak from the commissary for tacos and while it looked of beef, cooked like beef and had the texture of beef, it was completely without flavor. I cannot overemphasize that enough. It was like having a massive headcold where you can't taste a thing. I could taste the seasonings but no other flavor. Tofu with a steak texture i guess. Totally bizzarre factory battery beef. I should know better but i let the price trick me. Sounds like covid, yo
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Sep 28, 2020 15:17
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That or you need salt?
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Sep 28, 2020 15:25
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Goodpancakes posted:That or you need salt? It was seasoned and thats all you could taste. Beef is supposed to have a flavor besides the seasonings you put on it. And skirt steak is one of the more flavorful. *dry ages steak for no reason whatsoever except i enjoy waiting* pkells posted:Sounds like covid, yo More likely
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Sep 28, 2020 15:39
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I just got some amazing jasmine rice and that's how I know my sense of smell still works, you can test yourself with whatever comfort food you always enjoy.
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Sep 28, 2020 22:01
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drat, I love jasmine rice. I usually buy the 25lb bags of Three Ladies brand.
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Sep 28, 2020 23:19
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LingcodKilla posted:A MA just killed himself in the last 24 hours in Gaeta. Its been a really bad few months, I read an article yesterday that the military suicide rate is up about 20% and as a behavioral health tech for the last seven years I dont think ive ever seen it worse. We have had a massive influx of referrals and I don't have anywhere for them to go. We are limited to five people per group now and we only have about half the amount of psychologists we should and 1/3 the amount of techs we had when I got here a few years ago. The techs we do have are right out of the pipeline or from the star program and are just booking and re-booking patients because we have no support as far as 0000's or civilians to help run our desk like the rest of the hospital, Starting to feel pretty grim about the whole situation. I'm leaving out a lot of details is this story but we had a new sailor that had an aborted attempt due to shear dumb loving luck who got seen post discharge and the social worker that saw him and the tech saw no problem booking him almost a month out from his next appointment. I think luckily in this case someone else saw it but man, the level of training and staffing isnt there to deal with a problem that I think everyone can agree is an issue.
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Sep 29, 2020 05:35
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Susa posted:Its been a really bad few months, I read an article yesterday that the military suicide rate is up about 20% and as a behavioral health tech for the last seven years I dont think ive ever seen it worse. We have had a massive influx of referrals and I don't have anywhere for them to go. We are limited to five people per group now and we only have about half the amount of psychologists we should and 1/3 the amount of techs we had when I got here a few years ago. The techs we do have are right out of the pipeline or from the star program and are just booking and re-booking patients because we have no support as far as 0000's or civilians to help run our desk like the rest of the hospital, Starting to feel pretty grim about the whole situation. My roomate's command lost a sailor a few weeks back and it sounds like there were other attempts in the past. Hell, one of the nights on a detachment he was on, as a rover he had to make a call in about another suicidal sailor who tried to jump off a roof. I'm nowhere qualified to make any judgements or assessments, but it feels like this year in particular with all the ROMS and lack of avalibilities for health appointments is playing hell with the limited options people had to get help. Jimmy4400nav fucked around with this message at 05:41 on Sep 29, 2020 |
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Sep 29, 2020 05:37
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ROM was horrible. Not looking forward to solitary ROM in Norfolk once I get home. I’m sponsoring an E5 coming out and I’ve been calling him every other day while he sits in Norfolk.
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Sep 29, 2020 05:58
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suicides due to command climate and actions are more common than you think
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Sep 29, 2020 06:06
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ded posted:suicides due to command climate and actions are more common than you think It so common the new electronic health record therapist/psychiatrist auto template has military specific suicide factors built into it. Edit because I dont want to double post: I talked to a guy whos problems had started on ROM, He started to rapidly decompensate and im very glad the PCM called the front desk to speak to someone because the ER he visited gave him the all clear even though he was trying to get his weapons secured for safety. I was able to see him the next day but It just sort of reinforced the anxiety I have with checking all the incoming and outgoing clinic messages. The command did everything they should have done they where open and understanding, the PCM got him I think a same day appointment and then the ER's documentation was loving garbage and that's literally all it could have taken. Susa fucked around with this message at 06:33 on Sep 29, 2020 |
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Sep 29, 2020 06:23
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Yeah. Things aren't good out there. We had a suicide a month ago, and we've been averaging 3 SI cases per month from our subordinate commands since COVID hit.
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Sep 29, 2020 06:57
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My old unit had senior enlisted leadership on multiple occasions over the years tell P.O.'s to police our people better so that they didn't try and kill themselves and that we aren't making the work enough so they're using the idle time to think about killing themselves. The current state of affairs is exacerbating an existing problem that never got dealt with right to begin with.
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Sep 29, 2020 16:42
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maffew buildings posted:My old unit had senior enlisted leadership on multiple occasions over the years tell P.O.'s to police our people better so that they didn't try and kill themselves and that we aren't making the work enough so they're using the idle time to think about killing themselves. The current state of affairs is exacerbating an existing problem that never got dealt with right to begin with. It's definitely a thing that people don't get time to actually evaluate their options, up to and including killing themselves. Unfortunately, you can only run people for so long like that before they finally just break and stop. And then they suddenly have a little time to think about it, and killing themselves is the easiest answer. Because if they've been treated that poorly by the command, why would they answer any calls for help? I mean, the one time I tried asking for help, I got threatened with Mast for malingering. Had I been in any right frame of mind, I probably could have ended the careers of half my chain of command. And I regret not doing it.
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Sep 29, 2020 16:59
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Took some doing but I finally got contact information for the command CMEO
Butter Activities fucked around with this message at 08:28 on Sep 30, 2020 |
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Sep 30, 2020 08:26
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SpaceSDoorGunner posted:Took some doing but I finally got contact information for the command CMEO Is that not on the PoD/PoW at every command?
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Sep 30, 2020 12:13
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iwentdoodie posted:Is that not on the PoD/PoW at every command? Lol someone I asked for help told me the same, I have yet to ever see anything like a POD that at this command. I found a poster that had a phone number, which connected me with a CMEO at a different command, who was actually able to direct me. Last week when I asked the Quaterdeck they gave me a mailbox that wasn’t set up yet and the office number of a very confused command XO in Bremerton (that’s about a 1000 miles away or so). Butter Activities fucked around with this message at 13:37 on Sep 30, 2020 |
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Sep 30, 2020 13:35
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Imagine being an XO and getting a phone call from a junior sailor 1000 miles away because his command can't even get their phone contact tree right.
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Sep 30, 2020 14:03
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To be fair though if you'd called my last XO he probably would have tried to help you find the correct number to call, even if it was in the middle of his day. Big intimidating looking guy who had shoulders nearly wide enough he had to turn sideways to walk through a hatch, and his callsign was "Caveman" but he was the nicest guy ever and genuinely cared about any sailor he met.
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Sep 30, 2020 14:06
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https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1312054826549891077?s=20 Good to see the proud naval tradition of hitting things isn't a recent phenomena
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Oct 2, 2020 16:47
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orange juche posted:Imagine being an XO and getting a phone call from a junior sailor 1000 miles away because his command can't even get their phone contact tree right. I think KetTarma has a story about getting a call from someone trying to report aboard a few thousand miles off course.
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Oct 2, 2020 18:55
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajK1QMP7ZyI Smarter Every Day submarine series continues to be real good.
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Oct 4, 2020 14:06
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https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2020/09/30/for-the-fire-ravaged-ship-bonhomme-richard-the-us-navy-has-no-good-options/ US Navy has four investigations ongoing into the fire aboard the Bonhomme Richard, and there's still no full damage assessment. It's also not clear wether it could actually be repaired due to new shipbuilding and existing maintenance work.
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Oct 5, 2020 06:48
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Elendil004 posted:I think KetTarma has a story about getting a call from someone trying to report aboard a few thousand miles off course. I'm trying to recall this story but I seem to recall someone trying to report to the carrier after we executed a homeport change. Their orders said Bremerton but the ship was in Norfolk. It's just government money at least. As a C school instructor, lord knows we had some issues with students getting orders. It wasnt uncommon for people to get lost in limbo for months. We had a lot of floor waxing going on, to say the least.
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Oct 5, 2020 12:54
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