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piratepilates posted:They should have made a My Dinner With Andre type of movie but with Sisko and Picard. Nah. Sisko and the Grand Nagus. quote:When I'd called Sisko, and he'd suggested that we meet in this particular restaurant I'd been rather surprised, because Sisko's taste used to be very ascetic even though people have always known that he had some latinum somewhere.
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Oct 5, 2020 15:53
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A.o.D. posted:As much of a joy Delancie is, those episodes weren't good, nor did they employ his talents well. I will say Death Wish was actually pretty good and brought up some interesting concepts. But anything after that, yeah, no.
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Oct 5, 2020 16:14
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Also surprise Riker cameo
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Oct 5, 2020 16:21
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Sir Lemming posted:Okay but we're comparing it to Generations here... Sorry, was unclear. I don't mean that there are logical flaws, I mean that Nemesis is fundamentally incoherent in a 'why are you telling this story sense?'. Patrick Stewart goes dune buggying for a bit and then travels to Romulus to meet the bad guy so that the bad guy can then chase him back to Earth. Generations is Not Good but at the core of the story is a guy who has spent his life sacrificing chances at having a family in order to further his career. The death of his extended family throws him into crisis as he questions his life choices. The resolution of the film is that Picard comes to terms with the choices he's made and the difference he's made to the world. I hate what Generations does to reverse six films worth of Kirk coming to terms with being old and needing to retire, but I really like the premise of a film that's willing to say 'the answer doesn't need to be family, you can feel good about throwing yourself into duty and saving the world'. The subsequent TNG films are about Picard trying to get himself killed saving the world because that's how he's decided his life has meaning, only he's thwarted each time.
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Oct 5, 2020 16:23
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Alchenar posted:Sorry, was unclear. I don't mean that there are logical flaws, I mean that Nemesis is fundamentally incoherent in a 'why are you telling this story sense?'. Patrick Stewart goes dune buggying for a bit and then travels to Romulus to meet the bad guy so that the bad guy can then chase him back to Earth. See, to me, ruining Kirk’s goodbye, one of the most iconic characters in television and modern culture, isn’t worth anything they could do with Picard. A bridge killed him! I also think in a world where the show Picard exists, Nemesis is a lot less offensive Unmature fucked around with this message at 16:32 on Oct 5, 2020 |
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Oct 5, 2020 16:28
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Sash! posted:Generations should have had something to do with the Romulans. They couldn't do a movie of the dominion war because the way they do movies everything would be entirely disconnected from the plot of the show (and Worf'd be busy). Star Trek writers were awkward enough about the idea of an ongoing war as it was. The DS9 cast probably should've gotten a movie, but at the end of the series the entire crew was comprehensively dissected so it would take a massive series of contrivances to reassemble them. Maybe they shouldn't have put everybody on a bus headed opposite directions. It was an interesting way to end a series, but the entire franchise timeline kinda deadended for 20 years without a good handoff point from the last series taking place in/around Federation space.
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Oct 5, 2020 16:46
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Generations isn’t a great film, but much like 5, it’s got some good scenes, character moments, and a good antagonist. It’s less than the sum of its parts, but some of those parts hold up fairly well. In contrast, Nemesis has absolutely nothing to recommend it at all.
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Oct 5, 2020 16:50
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SlothfulCobra posted:The DS9 cast probably should've gotten a movie, but at the end of the series the entire crew was comprehensively dissected so it would take a massive series of contrivances to reassemble them. Maybe they shouldn't have put everybody on a bus headed opposite directions. Hey they did it with Worf three times
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Oct 5, 2020 16:51
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Sash! posted:Generations should have had something to do with the Romulans. I feel there's no way items 2 and 3 would have gotten approval from Paramount. People have to remember that until 2009, with the exception of two movies (IV and First Contact), Star Trek movies were never huge moneymakers for Paramount. They were a reliable way to spend $20 - $30 million every few years, turn out $80 million at the box office and make a boatload on home video. There's no way that First Contact featuring the DS9 cast would have passed muster, because even by that point, DS9's ratings were flatlining and Paramount had considered canceling it (hence the addition of Worf to the main cast in an attempt to boost sagging ratings by cashing in on TNG nostalgia). There's no way the added cost of adding those additional series stars' salaries to First Contact would have generated a commensurate revenue boost. As for Insurrection, same thing: By the time the Dominion War happened, no one was watching DS9 (until Voyager and Enterprise came along and said "Hold my beer"); something as continuity-heavy as the Dominion War would have been nearly impossible to market and likely murder on repeat box-office.
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Oct 5, 2020 16:54
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Unmature posted:Hey they did it with Worf three times Worf, increasingly out of breath and sweaty, shuttling beaming and sometimes running between DS9 and the Enterprise
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Oct 5, 2020 16:56
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edit: crash and doublepost
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Oct 5, 2020 17:04
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Even setting budgets aside, there's no way the Trek writers would have been able to wrangle two shows' worth of casts - they hardly did justice to the TNG cast to begin with. Also even setting DS9's ratings aside, coordinating the movie production with the TV plot arc would have been a nightmare for all involved, especially given the series of re-writes that Insurrection went through.
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Oct 5, 2020 17:09
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Eighties ZomCom posted:That didn't stop him from showing up in DS9 and Voyager.
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Oct 5, 2020 17:40
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Q ends the TNG series telling picard there is more out there then just conflict four TNG movies about conflict, no Q Picard TV show all about conflict, no Q if they do a season 2 of picard, I hope Q shows up and clowns on him. How you been solving your problems since that time shift paradox? Oh just violence? The human civilization is nothing but barbarians and must be wiped out season 2 of picard ends with Q wiping the humans out of existence for taking the Star Trek IP into the CGI-violence realm
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Oct 5, 2020 18:00
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I still think it would've been fun if Q and Picard had just become strange buddies by then and he showed up in one episode for a few minutes to sit on the porch with ol Jean-Luc and drink some wine and toss insults.
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Oct 5, 2020 18:11
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Grand Fromage posted:I still think it would've been fun if Q and Picard had just become strange buddies by then and he showed up in one episode for a few minutes to sit on the porch with ol Jean-Luc and drink some wine and toss insults. poo poo like this writes itself and it’s baffling they missed almost every opportunity to make the show good.
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Oct 5, 2020 18:13
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Star Trek Generations should have been about another whale probe showing up and Picard has to take the Enterprise D back to 1980s San Francisco to get a different kind of whale and they run into the original crew there when they investigate the Bird of Prey they detected.
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Oct 5, 2020 18:16
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John Wick of Dogs posted:Star Trek Generations should have been about another whale probe showing up and Picard has to take the Enterprise D back to 1980s San Francisco to get a different kind of whale and they run into the original crew there when they investigate the Bird of Prey they detected. Then they keep running into another group of Starfleet officers in strange uniforms with future tech, who cloak immediately when spotted or followed.
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Oct 5, 2020 18:21
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Why *are* they always going back to San Francisco? Is it just because it’s just far enough from LA to be cheap to move the cast to for a bit? Is Gene or Berman from there?
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Oct 5, 2020 18:21
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Grand Fromage posted:I still think it would've been fun if Q and Picard had just become strange buddies by then and he showed up in one episode for a few minutes to sit on the porch with ol Jean-Luc and drink some wine and toss insults. RLM 'picard the French village winemaker' was the best show concept
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Oct 5, 2020 18:21
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Picard solving mysteries with his pup a la Tin Tin would have been wonderful. Have Riker show up as the Captain Haddock surrogate occasionally.
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Oct 5, 2020 18:24
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I want Picard having spent years coming to terms with his Starfleet experiences, and characters from Trek would show up and sit at the vineyard having poignant discussions about those times, about decisions made, about doubts lasting, about certainty reached, about questions still unanswered
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Oct 5, 2020 18:26
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They need to stop all that poo poo entirely. You can't go home again.
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Oct 5, 2020 18:29
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I went there just yesterday! I had enchiladas!
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Oct 5, 2020 18:31
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Captains in Dunebuggies Getting Earl Grey
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Oct 5, 2020 18:38
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You could keep the same rough story beats. Voyager fucks the Borg up coming home, a big hunk of the collective is now un-hive minded and free. Many of them have come to the Federation as refugees. A lot of the Federation is not into having ex-Borg around given the history with the Borg, unfair as it is. Picard is spending his post-Starfleet years as a wine man, but the treatment of the ex-Borg is eating at him and he eventually goes into Lawyer Picard mode and uses his status to fight for the rights of the Borg refugees. He recruits Seven and Hugh in the process to help him out, maybe pick up some TNG cast in there too, and they force the Federation to live up to its ideals and make real change to help the ex-Borg start new lives. Don't need a bunch of shooting or threatening the entire universe or whatever the gently caress. Picard doing what Picard does, diplomacy and being on the right side of history.
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Oct 5, 2020 18:39
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Unmature posted:Captains in Shuttles Getting Earl Grey or this tbh
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Oct 5, 2020 18:39
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HD DAD posted:Picard solving mysteries with his pup a la Tin Tin would have been wonderful. Have Riker show up as the Captain Haddock surrogate occasionally. I’m thinking something like the Mapleworth Murders and it’s amusing me greatly.
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Oct 5, 2020 18:43
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Unmature posted:Why *are* they always going back to San Francisco? Is it just because it’s just far enough from LA to be cheap to move the cast to for a bit? Is Gene or Berman from there? Gene grew up in Los Angeles; I think Berman was a New Yorker who then went to the Midwest (went to college here in Wisconsin, as I recall) and then made his way to Hollywood. I don't know why Starfleet Headquarters / the Academy were first established to be in San Francisco (this happened in The Motion Picture, as I recall). My guess is that even by the '70s, San Francisco had established itself as a hotbed of progressivism, science, technology and academic thought.
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Oct 5, 2020 18:44
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The dedication plaque on the TOS Enterprise says that she was built in San Francisco, I guess they just sorta extrapolated that from there for TMP? And I think the assumption too is that the dry dock facilities in orbit are what is being referred to, with the orbital office complex/docks themselves either being named after San Francisco or in geostationary orbit above it? Since the only time we've ever seen a Trek ship actually being built on a ground-based shipyard was in JJTrek having it being built in the middle of an Iowa cornfield for some reason.
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Oct 5, 2020 18:48
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"let's get this bird in the sky" *electromagnetic catapult yeets Enterprise into high orbit*
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Oct 5, 2020 18:50
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Timby posted:Gene grew up in Los Angeles; I think Berman was a New Yorker who then went to the Midwest (went to college here in Wisconsin, as I recall) and then made his way to Hollywood. San Francisco was the birthplace of the United Nations, which Roddenberry saw as the precursor of United Earth and ultimately the Federation, so when the Motion Picture came out, he established it as the home of the Federation/Starfleet.
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Oct 5, 2020 18:57
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Drone posted:Since the only time we've ever seen a Trek ship actually being built on a ground-based shipyard was in JJTrek having it being built in the middle of an Iowa cornfield for some reason. Incorrect. We see a Galaxy Class being assembled on the surface of Mars in "Parallels". https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Utopia_Planitia_Fleet_Yards
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Oct 5, 2020 18:59
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:Even setting budgets aside, there's no way the Trek writers would have been able to wrangle two shows' worth of casts - they hardly did justice to the TNG cast to begin with. You don’t need the whole cast though. You just need Worf (who was already included) and Sisko.
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Oct 5, 2020 19:00
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And Kira Nerys can show up, but just as a Visitor
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Oct 5, 2020 19:31
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Brawnfire posted:And Kira Nerys can show up, but just as a Visitor booooooooooooooooo
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Oct 5, 2020 19:49
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Sash! posted:Insurrection should have been a TNG Dominion War movie. People have always said this and I disagree. TNG had nothing to do with that story, and TNG isn't supposed to be a war setting. It would have been weird and overly fannish. I think Insurrection was a perfect type of movie story for that cast if they had just done it... not like Insurrection actually turned out.
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Oct 5, 2020 20:09
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Drink-Mix Man posted:I think Insurrection was a perfect type of movie story for that cast if they had just done it... not like Insurrection actually turned out. Insurrection was hamstrung from the start because it was patently obvious by that point that Piller was burnt the gently caress out on Star Trek (and who could blame him, he'd been working on the franchise almost non-stop since like 1989) and was in no way prepared to deal with guys like Stewart and Spiner throwing their dicks around and exerting creative control.
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Oct 5, 2020 20:31
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Insurrection's story development went in some weird directions too, like if I remember right, at one point Picard and the TNG crew were leading a resistance on some planet against a combined Federation/Romulan task force bent on strip-mining the planet for the totally non-renewable, irreplaceable and consumable magic mineral behind all 24th-century medical supertech, and the end of the movie was going to be some grim last stand against hopeless odds. I might be mashing a couple of different proposals in there. I'm pretty sure that at at least one point Piller despaired of finding a story that would satisfy everyone (studio heads, Berman, Stewart) and thought about quitting. I wonder what Berman would have done in that event... my guess is he'd try to shove a truck of cash at Moore and Braga to try and convince them to do another movie, since my recollection is the reason Piller got stuck with it is because Moore and Braga declined to write another movie.
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Oct 5, 2020 20:49
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They should have given Joe Menosky a bunch of psychedelics and a laptop and told him they’d film whatever he pumped out for a TNG film.
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Oct 5, 2020 21:03
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