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The trove is just a bunch of stuff ripped from the collections (also called troves) of the 4chan piracy crowd, who get really upset about it, which is funny.
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Sep 29, 2020 08:32
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gradenko_2000 posted:Specifically towards The Trove, playing it off as an "archive" strikes me as trying to apply an intellectual sheen on really being a dumping-ground for PDFs to get stuff for free.
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Sep 29, 2020 13:05
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Elendil004 posted:You mentioned it, and the Lancer guys mentioned it but what was the offending bad copy on the site? " © 2015-2020 TheTrove.is. All rights reserved. Yar har fiddle-dee-dee. "
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Sep 29, 2020 15:20
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dwarf74 posted:You're not wrong, but a big dumping ground of pirated poo poo can also become an archive of a sort, regardless of their sincerity. Well...no, not really. An archive is a specific thing, and as Hedningen says, it’s a lot more work. I’ve got an MLS and I’d love to see an actual archive for this stuff! I’d love to work in one! The Trove is not one at all, it doesn’t even do the most basic work to be one even considering the limitations of file sharing sites. E: basically the pretense of being an archive is a fig leaf, and a bad one. It’s a false argument. If you want to argue the Trove should exist, you have to argue for it knowing it’s a pirate file server. Maybe it should, maybe it shouldn’t - I’m personally not mad that it exists, myself. But it is not an archive, and pretending it is helps no one. If you want to argue we should have actual archives: yes, I agree. Those need funding and space and useful archival description and are more than simply “here, have files!” They take a lot of work and setting one up is a huge endeavor that is unrelated to this entire debate. Mors Rattus fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Sep 29, 2020 |
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Sep 29, 2020 16:56
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gradenko_2000 posted:so it has to be re-explained and re-tackled, except in this iteration we do it through twitter threads and hour-long youtube videos instead of blogspot.com I'd argue we've basically taken a step back. Twitter and hour-long YouTube videos are poorly suited to discovery and reference. Blogspot.com, for all its flaws, was fundamentally suited for the task of publishing essays on design and storing knowledge and good practices in general. The current Twitter/Discord environment is probably the least healthy the community has ever been, yet we're also seeing a boom of new ideas and interest in the indie scene in spite of that.
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Sep 29, 2020 17:20
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The word "archive" has a particular meaning to researchers and librarians that is more specific and definite. It is also used colloquially and in the colloquial sense, any information repository intended to be a long-term store of content can reasonably be called an archive, and it's OK for people to use that word that way too.LatwPIAT posted:I'd argue we've basically taken a step back. Twitter and hour-long YouTube videos are poorly suited to discovery and reference. Blogspot.com, for all its flaws, was fundamentally suited for the task of publishing essays on design and storing knowledge and good practices in general. The current Twitter/Discord environment is probably the least healthy the community has ever been, yet we're also seeing a boom of new ideas and interest in the indie scene in spite of that. Indexing and search are a huge problem when it comes to a/v content but it's slowly coming along, things like tagging and metadata can help and I suspect in the next 10 years, automation of metadata from video that contains text or language in it may get here. That's still probably not going to be as good as intentional archival by an archivist that includes standardized metadata and categorization etc. and I agree that RPGs as a cultural phenomenon are deserving of academic study and proper treatment and preservation. I feel like that sort of respect happened for example to comic books starting around the 1990s or so, maybe slightly earlier, as the art world started taking them seriously as a medium worthy of respect etc., and I wonder if a similar timeline is going to unfold with RPGs... which would mean something like 50+ years have to pass since they became popular, before academics across the board accept them as worthy etc.
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Sep 29, 2020 17:39
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My 2¢: While the Trove was obviously created for  and not to be an archive, it's also the only place I've been able to reliably find PDFs of a fair bit of out-of-print stuff like WEG Ghostbusters that are still technically because somebody owns the rights but has zero interest in reprinting them, or things like Palladium TMNT that are literally impossible to get legally outside of used copies because of rights issues.
Roadie fucked around with this message at 17:46 on Sep 29, 2020 |
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Sep 29, 2020 17:44
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My take on the matter is that if the Trove is dumb enough to publicly broadcast on Twitter and try passing the hat around for donations, they're going to get smacked down and I'm not going to feel bad about it.
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Sep 29, 2020 19:47
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LatwPIAT posted:I'd argue we've basically taken a step back. Twitter and hour-long YouTube videos are poorly suited to discovery and reference. Blogspot.com, for all its flaws, was fundamentally suited for the task of publishing essays on design and storing knowledge and good practices in general. The current Twitter/Discord environment is probably the least healthy the community has ever been, yet we're also seeing a boom of new ideas and interest in the indie scene in spite of that. I hate this trend in everything. You know the nice thing about a book or even a text essay? You can leave it open next to you as you're working. Instead now we have youtube tutorials that you have to keep going back thirty seconds to work out how something fits or where you're looking next or whatever and god help you if you missed it.
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Sep 29, 2020 20:12
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spectralent posted:I hate this trend in everything. You know the nice thing about a book or even a text essay? You can leave it open next to you as you're working. Instead now we have youtube tutorials that you have to keep going back thirty seconds to work out how something fits or where you're looking next or whatever and god help you if you missed it. Like.... Give me text, please.
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Sep 29, 2020 21:07
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dwarf74 posted:Our school made videos on how to set up student accounts for remote learning and I wanted to throw something. I'm 100% sure it's because videos are easier to half rear end. Turn on camera, talk for fifteen minutes, DONE.
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Sep 29, 2020 21:30
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I hate the move to Discord for the same reason. I joined a trad games one when it looked like Lotax was going to take SA down with him and it's just exhausting to follow something like that without checking it constantly. I love that I can not get around to checking a forum for a few days and it's easy to catch up. Sure I risk some ability to join the discussion, but at least I don't have trouble catching up with it and reading what I missed out on and stuff. I don't think chat apps and other ephemera are bad, but I hate that they seem to be increasingly all we have.
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Sep 29, 2020 21:35
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Ultiville posted:I hate the move to Discord for the same reason. I joined a trad games one when it looked like Lotax was going to take SA down with him and it's just exhausting to follow something like that without checking it constantly. I love that I can not get around to checking a forum for a few days and it's easy to catch up. Sure I risk some ability to join the discussion, but at least I don't have trouble catching up with it and reading what I missed out on and stuff. Discord users are especially bad since they were born without the ability to scroll up, so the only conversation happening is the only conversation that has ever happened. Once it scrolls off the page baby it's gone. The only way to combat it with subdividing channels aggressively, but then you end up with 100 niche channels.
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Sep 30, 2020 16:13
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Discord is awful at everything except live chat. God, imagine if SA had been some weird hacked-together thing powered by radium's finest IRC bots.
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Sep 30, 2020 17:51
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Elendil004 posted:Discord users are especially bad since they were born without the ability to scroll up, so the only conversation happening is the only conversation that has ever happened. Once it scrolls off the page baby it's gone. Discord itself seems to want to discourage scrolling up sometimes.
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Sep 30, 2020 17:57
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Tsilkani posted:Discord itself seems to want to discourage scrolling up sometimes. Unless I'm missing something, getting back to something older than a couple of days ago in any Discord channel is a nightmare. This seems to be a trend in modern web architecture, mirrored to one degree or another in places like Patreon, Twitter or Facebook. Using a date is forbidden, time can only be measured relative to right now. I hate it. EverettLO fucked around with this message at 19:00 on Sep 30, 2020 |
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Sep 30, 2020 18:50
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I'm still waiting for the ability to automatically save local plaintext logs.
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Sep 30, 2020 20:29
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EverettLO posted:Unless I'm missing something, getting back to something older than a couple of days ago in any Discord channel is a nightmare. The search feature on Discord can be helpful for finding past conversations topics. Not perfect but you can at least sort by time, or in a particular date range, or by a particular poster, etc. Doesn't really help if you just want to read stuff, though. (Although megathreads on forums aren't always great to search through either.)
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Sep 30, 2020 23:19
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Discord's search function is 1000% better than SA's.
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Oct 1, 2020 14:17
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Azran posted:Discord's search function is 1000% better than SA's. Yeah SA's is so bad I usually use google and just add site:forums.somethingawful.com to my query
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Oct 1, 2020 14:29
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Azran posted:Discord's search function is 1000% better than SA's. I have rancid farts that are better then that, it is not any great achivement.
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Oct 4, 2020 20:36
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You're not giving it enough credit. You can search by poster, by date, by whether or not therer was a linkr or an image attached. You have a lot of options to find something you half-remember someone mentioning at some point. Or even just a topic.
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Oct 4, 2020 22:22
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paradoxGentleman posted:You're not giving it enough credit. You can search by poster, by date, by whether or not therer was a linkr or an image attached. You have a lot of options to find something you half-remember someone mentioning at some point. Or even just a topic. The display UI is also really good, since it shows you a bit of context and then you can very quickly jump to that point in the conversation.
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Oct 4, 2020 22:37
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It also actually does exact search, unlike Discord's search.
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Oct 5, 2020 00:45
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Yeah you're not meant to 'catch up' on Discord any more than you're meant to 'catch up' on IRC or on a chatroom, it's designed for live communication and not drawn out discussions. It's not a replacement for forums, it's a complement to them.
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Oct 5, 2020 01:03
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Yeah but even for stream-of-content sorts of things like discord, IRC, Twitter, FB feed, it's really nice to be able to say "I saw a thing about..." and find it again without reading tons of scrollback in every channel. Search for recall is different from search for discovery, which only browsers and some search engines seem to have realized.
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Oct 5, 2020 01:29
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bewilderment posted:Yeah you're not meant to 'catch up' on Discord any more than you're meant to 'catch up' on IRC or on a chatroom, it's designed for live communication and not drawn out discussions. It's not a replacement for forums, it's a complement to them. Of course, but when it looked like everyone was jumping ship from SA, the only reasonable stuff I saw was Discords. I might have missed a good forum link but it seemed like there was like one and a lot of folks said it was run by also bad folks. Similarly all the stream communities I’ve encountered are on Discord, when I’d prefer forums. Discord isn’t a forum replacement functionally but it seems like it’s still taking up a lot of the space. Not the program’s fault but I still don’t love it.
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Oct 5, 2020 07:21
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That's pretty much due to a lack of alternative options, though. Forums are custom hosted software, after all.
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Oct 5, 2020 10:47
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They don’t have to be. There are a few turnkey forum SaaS products out there.
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Oct 5, 2020 10:55
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It's trivially easier to set up a discord server versus a forum though and as long as a person is registered on discord there's no need to juggle an extra log in.
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Oct 5, 2020 12:09
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Ultiville posted:Of course, but when it looked like everyone was jumping ship from SA, the only reasonable stuff I saw was Discords. I might have missed a good forum link but it seemed like there was like one and a lot of folks said it was run by also bad folks. There were like four different lifeboat forums (as in running actual forums software) that I'm aware of, and I wasn't following events particularly closely. Discord is great as a general chat tool but, uh, not that great for things like megathreads, effortposts, reviews, LP's, etc.
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Oct 5, 2020 12:33
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Xelkelvos posted:It's trivially easier to set up a discord server versus a forum though and as long as a person is registered on discord there's no need to juggle an extra log in. I’m not saying otherwise, just that running a forum doesn’t necessarily involve hosting custom software. Discord can be used as a login for forums that support it too (Discourse is one such, I believe).
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Oct 5, 2020 16:07
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https://twitter.com/BrainClouds/status/1313109953989816323?s=20
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Oct 5, 2020 20:50
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this is the guy who got booted off rpg.net for literally trying to cast a black magic spell on the moderators, isn’t it?
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Oct 5, 2020 20:54
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I get why people share stuff like that but it seems like they're far more likely to introduce some shithead hate-following them to a fellow shithead than they are to "educate" any of their audience that, actually, this rando RPG writer that no one's heard of except other shitheads is a shithead.
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Oct 5, 2020 20:55
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He's got his corner of the OSR now, with megadungeon kickstarters and lovely people getting upset when their promotion of him is criticised by those drat political sjws. He can gently caress right off.
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Oct 5, 2020 21:02
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Venger As'Nas Satanis is not a real name
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Oct 5, 2020 21:17
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Comrade Koba posted:this is the guy who got booted off rpg.net for literally trying to cast a black magic spell on the moderators, isn’t it? And that was like 20 years ago, I have no idea how anyone takes this dude remotely seriously.
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Oct 5, 2020 21:25
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:Venger As'Nas Satanis is not a real name The middle name is new. A while back he claimed to be going through a racial awakening but the race was like a Deep One or something. 90s Cringe Rock posted:He's got his corner of the OSR now, with megadungeon kickstarters and lovely people getting upset when their promotion of him is criticised by those drat political sjws. Don’t forget ‘hilarious’ and ‘sexy’ games like THOT Patrol.
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Oct 5, 2020 21:33
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:Venger As'Nas Satanis is not a real name Also known to mortals as "Darrick Dishaw". Comrade Koba posted:this is the guy who got booted off rpg.net for literally trying to cast a black magic spell on the moderators, isn’t it? The one and only. He once published a "Cult of Cthulhu Bible" that had passages plagiarized from Wikipedia. He publishes bad RPGs and complains about people talking him to task for his misogyny and being the kind of guy who really, really wants to be the leader of a sex cult.
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Oct 5, 2020 21:39
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