|
being a big name in the WWE bubble regardless of how many or few people care about you is what the WWE HoF is for
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2020 15:18
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 17, 2024 20:49 |
|
|
Vince MechMahon posted:I honestly kind of get what that guy is saying, that if the biggest game in town isn't going by what your criteria are, your criteria are the issue. But at where we are right now with Wrestling my opinion on it is actually that WWE isn't wrestling so adapting to them would be stupid regardless. If the biggest game in town is in a period where their popularity is declining at unprecedented rates then it doesn't seem like they would be producing many hall of fame acts!
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2020 15:19
|
|
|
MassRafTer posted:If the biggest game in town is in a period where their popularity is declining at unprecedented rates then it doesn't seem like they would be producing many hall of fame acts! Yeah this is why in this situation I don't think it's Dave's fault, nor should he try to adapt.
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2020 15:21
|
|
|
Vince MechMahon posted:I honestly kind of get what that guy is saying, that if the biggest game in town isn't going by what your criteria are, your criteria are the issue. But at where we are right now with Wrestling my opinion on it is actually that WWE isn't wrestling so adapting to them would be stupid regardless. Yeah, I can see an argument around "Does the current business overall still really match the criteria Dave is using, does he need to change for a business that draws different?" but if we're just sticking to WWE and why it is hard for their modern performers to get in, well that's the company's fault. Maybe if they were not so hostile to the idea of pro-wrestling they would have more Sports Entertainers in a pro-wrestling hall of fame.
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2020 15:41
|
|
|
It's not even like drawing is the biggest problem facing your current WWE Superstar (tm) for induction. The booking is so bad that wrestlers rarely have chances to put on great matches. You could just handwave drawing as record profits but the shows stink.
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2020 15:46
|
|
|
Gumball Gumption posted:Yeah, I can see an argument around "Does the current business overall still really match the criteria Dave is using, does he need to change for a business that draws different?" but if we're just sticking to WWE and why it is hard for their modern performers to get in, well that's the company's fault. Maybe if they were not so hostile to the idea of pro-wrestling they would have more Sports Entertainers in a pro-wrestling hall of fame. Fact is the only WWE first ballot hall of famer in the last decade was Daniel Bryan because only he satisfied the criteria. The others sabotaged their own cases (Edge, CM Punk) or will never be accepted (Randy Orton, Roman Reigns). The criteria is correct. I am looking forward to when Roman Reigns becomes the 21st Century Big Daddy (who can work). "He was on top for so long!" "It killed the company!"
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2020 18:53
|
|
|
roman reigns and kevin nash having the exact same time at the top of WWE, lots of potential but constantly sabotaged by vince vinceing it up atleast reigns didnt kill an entire wrestling scene though
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2020 19:28
|
|
|
Lid posted:Fact is the only WWE first ballot hall of famer in the last decade was Daniel Bryan because only he satisfied the criteria. The others sabotaged their own cases ([...] CM Punk) [...] The criteria is correct. As someone who doesn't really follow Observer/Meltzer stuff, what's the difference between the two?
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2020 19:39
|
|
|
IronCladBurrito posted:As someone who doesn't really follow Observer/Meltzer stuff, what's the difference between the two? Bryan is a better wrestler than Punk.
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2020 19:42
|
|
|
MassRafTer posted:Bryan is a better wrestler than Punk. So Punk sabotaged his case by not being as good as DB. Gotcha.
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2020 21:06
|
|
|
IronCladBurrito posted:So Punk sabotaged his case by not being as good as DB. Gotcha. i mean he just wasn't as good of a wrestler. he had to try harder to have good matches because he just isn't an athletically gifted individual, but his body of work doesn't compare to pre-wwe bryan. he's also never been given a chance to actually be a main eventer, until his heel turn with his final title run his title defenses were almost always just put on the midcard and even then he wasn't usually the focal point as champion and not really given a chance to prove he was able to carry the company like he felt he could. i'd say there are similarities to edge there, but edge was a wrestler who was demonstrably able to move PPV and TV numbers in a way that punk just simply wasn't able to do outside of Money in the Bank 2011 and Hell In A Cell 2012. had punk actually gone to AEW and they started maintaining numbers with him in a top guy position and consistently doing strong buyrates and TV ratings, very possibly stronger than they are today it probably would have helped his HOF chances. obviously if he had never done UFC these numbers probably would have gone even higher. I know we don't consider outside-of-wrestling ventures when it comes to HOF qualifying but he also hurt his credentials in a big way by retiring early to get smashed by rookie fighters in UFC. it hurt his credibility in a big way and his drawing power to boot.
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2020 21:22
|
|
|
Here's the thing: Almost every other major promotion still works the old way. * AEW gets good TV $ that's a big part of what keeps them going, but before the pandemic, live event ticket sales and merch were what was putting them in the black. (Though they may have tweaked some costs so that they're still profitable on top of not having to rent someone else's venue.) * NJPW is mostly reliant on live attendance and merch. I'm sure they get some TV money and that it's not nothing—especially given what happened to NOAH when they lost their TV deal—but it's not what keeps them afloat. * CMLL is entirely reliant on live attendance, but can weather most storms more easily than other promoters because they own their key arenas. (And yes, live event business in Mexico City has been boosted by tourist groups the last few years, but that's still live attendance.) * AAA is reliant on live attendance but has tried to diversify with merch and licensing much more than CMLL. Still the traditional metrics. * ROH and Impact are both part of weird TV company ownership situations and it's not clear if either has ever really made any money, so...? Anyway, you get the idea. If anyone deserves to go in the HOF for this era of WWE, it's Stephanie as CBO for giving them a complete corporate makeover that helped them net bigger sponsors and gigantic licensing fees that made them the most profitable wrestling promotion in history in the middle of a global pandemic without real shows in front of fans.
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2020 21:27
|
|
|
Isn't that profitability mostly because of the Saudi deal though (and it's still unclear whether they've actually gotten paid for that)?
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2020 21:30
|
|
|
Pylons posted:Isn't that profitability mostly because of the Saudi deal though (and it's still unclear whether they've actually gotten paid for that)? TV deals make up a huuuuge portion of their revenue
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2020 21:33
|
|
|
IronCladBurrito posted:So Punk sabotaged his case by not being as good as DB. Gotcha. Yeah, he didn't sabotage himself with voters by walking out of the company he just didn't have a good enough of a run business wise to overcome the fact he's not as good as Daniel Bryan. And voters don't care that he sued Colt Cabana or lost in MMA, if anything drawing a good number for his first UFC fight helps him. davidbix posted:
Frankly think the wheels were in motion before Stephanie became CBO.
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2020 21:48
|
|
|
MassRafTer posted:Yeah, he didn't sabotage himself with voters by walking out of the company he just didn't have a good enough of a run business wise to overcome the fact he's not as good as Daniel Bryan. I don't know if you're being sarcastic with me now or not, but I also don't think I have to know. No one's contradicting your answer to my question, so I guess this is the answer. Thanks.
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2020 22:22
|
|
|
Punk was a really good wrestler.
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2020 22:35
|
|
|
Gonzo McFee posted:Punk was a really good wrestler. He was!
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2020 22:41
|
|
|
Didn't think "Bryan is a better wrestler than Punk" was a controversial opinion but you learn something new every day
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2020 23:17
|
|
|
Gonzo McFee posted:Punk was a really good wrestler. Aye but Bryan Danielson is one of the best in ring performers of all-time is the point. If Danielson had retired instead of going to WWE he'd have gotten in purely off the quality of his work for a decade.
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2020 23:30
|
|
|
Me (wisely): CM Punk is the Taue to Daniel Bryan's Akiyama. Someone on the internet I have never met but wants me dead: WHAT THE gently caress.
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2020 23:31
|
|
|
lmao
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2020 23:43
|
|
|
MassRafTer posted:Me (wisely): CM Punk is the Taue to Daniel Bryan's Akiyama.
|
|
#
?
Oct 6, 2020 00:43
|
|
|
Benne posted:Didn't think "Bryan is a better wrestler than Punk" was a controversial opinion but you learn something new every day It's not. It also wasn't the question, though. Not was it the claim that spawned the question. But we're off topic.
|
|
#
?
Oct 6, 2020 01:04
|
|
|
forkboy84 posted:Aye but Bryan Danielson is one of the best in ring performers of all-time is the point. If Danielson had retired instead of going to WWE he'd have gotten in purely off the quality of his work for a decade. Daniel Bryan retired the night after Wrestlemania 30 and never had another match.
|
|
#
?
Oct 6, 2020 01:28
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/ish07444363/status/1313539842362408961
|
|
#
?
Oct 6, 2020 19:46
|
|
|
I dunno, that's dumb but like... He's just trying to help? And ratings are confusing as gently caress anyway. I think I'm technically counted cause I use YouTube TV, and there's a thing I turned on, but I couldn't tell you if that's even being tracked in the same pipeline as TV viewers.
|
|
#
?
Oct 6, 2020 20:12
|
|
|
I really wonder how many people they get through fite internationally.
|
|
#
?
Oct 6, 2020 20:38
|
|
|
History Comes Inside! posted:I really wonder how many people they get through fite internationally.
|
|
#
?
Oct 6, 2020 21:13
|
|
|
I watch TV through hulu live, no idea if those viewers are tracked and count in the ratings at all. I don’t know anyone with traditional cable box cable.
|
|
#
?
Oct 6, 2020 22:42
|
|
|
Eat My Fuc posted:I watch TV through hulu live, no idea if those viewers are tracked and count in the ratings at all. I don’t know anyone with traditional cable box cable. They are. Dunno if it makes the chart, but they're counted in the +7 numbers for sure.
|
|
#
?
Oct 6, 2020 22:59
|
|
|
Ratings in 2020 are a combo of official Nielsen houses and aggregate numbers provided by the cable companies. Nielsen is better at breakdowns for demographics, the cable companies are better at per minute breakdowns of viewership. That box tracks every time you pause, change a channel, fast forward, etc. So there is a ton of value in that data, but advertisers treat Nielsen numbers as the gold standard for various reasons. Source: worked in TV for 5 years, knew some people who knew a lot of this stuff.
|
|
#
?
Oct 6, 2020 23:44
|
|
|
MJeff posted:They are. Dunno if it makes the chart, but they're counted in the +7 numbers for sure. I think Bryan and Dave said around the first few months of AEW that every single non-cable method (Youtube TV etc) of watching TNT does get counted in the chart since like Nystral said it's easy and quick data to gather.
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2020 03:31
|
|
|
Maybe the funniest thing a person could get mad at Dave Meltzer (resident of California) about in TYOOL 2020. https://twitter.com/WayPastTense/status/1313819680558198785 https://twitter.com/tholzerman/status/1313820321590411264
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2020 13:55
|
|
|
I like that they're complaining about people paying attention to Meltzer while having all of the details on the latest thing Dave did that upset people/made him look dumb/etc.
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2020 14:15
|
|
|
Dave has been very loud this year (and the last four years, honestly) that the electoral college loving stinks and people keep having brainworms at him about it.
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2020 15:54
|
|
|
MJeff posted:Dave has been very loud this year (and the last four years, honestly) that the electoral college loving stinks and people keep having brainworms at him about it. Anyone who, after having it happen twice within the last twenty years, doesn't realize that in presidential elections either the electoral college or supreme court are just going to appoint whoever they want, totally regardless of votes, is a lost cause. What more proof is required that the system is absolutely broken?
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2020 16:04
|
|
|
Vince MechMahon posted:Anyone who, after having it happen twice within the last twenty years, doesn't realize that in presidential elections either the electoral college or supreme court are just going to appoint whoever they want, totally regardless of votes, is a lost cause. What more proof is required that the system is absolutely broken? The system is broken, the electoral college is bullshit, and 2000 was hosed. However, the electoral college didn't just vote for whoever they wanted to. They voted for who the votes of their state dictated that they had to vote for. It's stupid and the system sucks, but it wasn't willy nilly.
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2020 16:32
|
|
|
collocation posted:The system is broken, the electoral college is bullshit, and 2000 was hosed. However, the electoral college didn't just vote for whoever they wanted to. They voted for who the votes of their state dictated that they had to vote for. It's stupid and the system sucks, but it wasn't willy nilly. It wasn't Willy nilly. I'm sure they got exactly what they wanted. Because they have gerrymandered everything to the point where they will always win. So yeah it's not willy nilly, it is coldly calculated months if not years in advanced who gets to sit in the fancy office.
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2020 16:54
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 17, 2024 20:49 |
|
|
Vince MechMahon posted:It wasn't Willy nilly. I'm sure they got exactly what they wanted. Because they have gerrymandered everything to the point where they will always win. So yeah it's not willy nilly, it is coldly calculated months if not years in advanced who gets to sit in the fancy office. That's not really how it works. Individual districts within states are gerrymandered. Winner gets all states can't be. The system (both the Senate and the EC) was designed to benefit the rural and the slave holding states by making their votes matter more, so it amounts to the same thing, but it was designed to do so hundreds of years ago. It's not something that anyone has done recently, but it's also not something that is going to get changed unless Dems win enough to pass a constitutional amendment to get rid of it, which is rather unlikely. The actual electors, so far, in recent history, have just voted for who won their state. The college system is hosed, but the electors are largely honorary and do as they are bidden under the current rigged rules of the game. It doesn't make it any better, though.
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2020 17:09
|
|