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Who will you vote for in 2020? This poll is closed. |
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|---|---|---|---|
| Biden |
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425 | 18.06% |
| Trump |
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105 | 4.46% |
| whoever the Green Party runs |
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307 | 13.05% |
| GOOGLE RON PAUL |
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151 | 6.42% |
| Bernie Sanders |
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346 | 14.70% |
| Stalin |
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246 | 10.45% |
| Satan |
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300 | 12.75% |
| Nobody |
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202 | 8.58% |
| Jess Scarane |
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110 | 4.67% |
| mystery man Brian Carroll of the American Solidarity Party |
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61 | 2.59% |
| Dick Nixon |
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100 | 4.25% |
| Total: | 2089 votes | ||
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PeterCat posted:Wouldn't the $400k folks get accused of gentrification if they moved into a cheaper neighborhood? What do you think gentrification actually is?
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Oct 6, 2020 19:51
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PeterCat posted:Wouldn't the $400k folks get accused of gentrification if they moved into a cheaper neighborhood? not if we raise their taxes to 90%
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Oct 6, 2020 19:53
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There's nothing inherently wrong with people moving into lower-wealth neighborhoods, the problem comes when a Whole Foods replaces the local Sav-R's-Mart and a First Watch replaces the local greasy spoon and prices people out of the neighborhoods they've lived in for decades, or generations even.
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Oct 6, 2020 19:54
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Somfin posted:What do you think gentrification actually is? Why don't you explain it to me.
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Oct 6, 2020 19:54
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Wicked Them Beats posted:Reminder that the rate under Obama was 35% so this is actually Joe locking in half of Trump's tax cuts. And biden is raising capital gain tax to 39.6% which is higher than it's ever been in history and vastly higher than it's been in recent history.
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Oct 6, 2020 19:58
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:And biden is raising capital gain tax to 39.6% which is higher than it's ever been in history and vastly higher than it's been in recent history. You've moved the goalposts from "Corporate Income Tax" to "Capital Gains Tax"
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Oct 6, 2020 19:59
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Wicked Them Beats posted:Reminder that the rate under Obama was 35% so this is actually Joe locking in half of Trump's tax cuts. Plus a lot of large corporations don't even pay this. Maybe they should start going after being able to funnel profits overseas/other loopholes?
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Oct 6, 2020 20:00
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:And biden is raising capital gain tax to 39.6% which is higher than it's ever been in history and vastly higher than it's been in recent history. *On income above $1 million Pretty important caveat you suddenly forgot to mention, and it makes the effective rate way below 39.6%.
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Oct 6, 2020 20:02
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Grayly Squirrel posted:Please try to debate civilly. I'm asking you to consider what these Republicans have that granted them the access you and I do not have. They already have enough influence to be there, because the Democrats ceded it to them before they appeared. They are, as pointed out earlier, functionally on the same team as Biden with aligned goals. This ought to scare the poo poo out of Democrats. Instead it's a discussion about how many quids per quo were traded and what they might have been. If the CEO of Philip Morris spoke somewhere as incongruous as an elementary school, would that suggest a zero-influence scenario? Would that set off no warnings to you whatsoever? You're somehow missing that their presence demonstrates preexisting alignment, and that's frustrating.
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Oct 6, 2020 20:03
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PeterCat posted:Why don't you explain it to me. Because if I don't understand why you think what you think I don't even know if you're wrong yet. It could be that you're entirely correct and a quirk of your phrasing means that I got the wrong end of the stick. You seem to be saying that rich people moving in to "cheaper" neighbourhoods would, on its own, constitute gentrification. Please explain why you think that.
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Oct 6, 2020 20:12
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PeterCat posted:Why don't you explain it to me. When a neighborhood experiences a flow of new high-income residents, incentivizing consumer-directed businesses like apartment buildings, restaurants, or grocery stores to redirect their business toward the new residents who can pay more and provide a higher profit margin. This results in the neighborhood's original residents losing some or all of the businesses which catered to their lower incomes (low-rent apartments) or unique cultural needs (specialty ethnic grocery stores). So moving to a low-income area doesn't inherently make you "a gentrifier" but you contribute to gentrifying if you move to a low-income area but shop at the new, high-cost stores that opened to serve people like you but are too expensive for the people who originally lived in the neighborhood
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Oct 6, 2020 20:13
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Kinda hard to dig into, but it looks like the Biden plan would put the effective tax rate numbers a few percentage points better in the direction I'd prefer for most brackets as compared to the Bowles-Simpson plan, which I didn't expect. So, I would say Biden's plan would put his policies in this area left of the Obama administration. Referencing effective tax rates is painting with a very specific brush, as Republicans have made it a whole lot easier to put together a tax plan that is more progressive than current policy.Owlofcreamcheese posted:And biden is raising capital gain tax to 39.6% which is higher than it's ever been in history Wrong. 1977 and 1978 might not be recent history by some definitions, but it's certainly history that you could've checked before making things up.
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Oct 6, 2020 20:15
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Marx Was A Lib posted:You've moved the goalposts from "Corporate Income Tax" to "Capital Gains Tax" Seems like a fair shift. It's the same money at different ends. More taxes on amazon, way more taxes on bezo.
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Oct 6, 2020 20:15
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Funny thing is that while Biden doesn't want to fully reverse Trump's tax cuts for corporations, the democrats want to remove the deduction cap in state and local taxes, to the point of including it in the HEROES act. Removing the SALT deduction cap mostly benefits the really rich.
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Oct 6, 2020 20:24
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:And biden is raising capital gain tax to 39.6% which is higher than it's ever been in history and vastly higher than it's been in recent history. And if you actually thought that was sufficient you wouldn't have tried to boost his "leftmoving" bona fides by talking about how he was going to raise the corporate tax rate to be 18 points lower than it was under Ronald Reagan.
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Oct 6, 2020 20:24
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With Trump announcing they won't pass a stimulus until after November, this would be a great time for Biden's team to come out strong in favor of Kamala's cosponsored plan (that she totally believes in for real) for 2k/month checks retroactive to March.
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Oct 6, 2020 20:26
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i am the bird posted:With Trump announcing they won't pass a stimulus until after November, this would be a great time for Biden's team to come out strong in favor of Kamala's cosponsored plan (that she totally believes in for real) for 2k/month checks retroactive to March. ....for Americans that attended an HBCU and live or work in a historically disadvantaged area for at least 3 years and can show a consistent pattern of loss throughout those years? Love those means tested plans of hers.
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Oct 6, 2020 20:27
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Civilized Fishbot posted:So moving to a low-income area doesn't inherently make you "a gentrifier" but you contribute to gentrifying if you move to a low-income area but shop at the new, high-cost stores that opened to serve people like you but are too expensive for the people who originally lived in the neighborhood I have a sincere question regarding this part. Lets say a person with, for example, 20x the median area income comes in and buy an average price house for that area. Then this person convinces their friends who make a similar income to come in and do the same thing. They still shop at the same stores catering to lower-income families. Do you not think that buying up housing that is affordable for lower income would be contributing to the start of gentrification in this neighborhood? I could go on about what if they upgrade the house, tear down/rebuild the house, etc. But realistically, at a minimum I would say this is cutting off access being able to afford a home to some people. This reduces the amount of available housing in that neighborhood when that individual could have just bought a house in a different neighborhood. As a side note: I'm not arguing for class segregation in cities by any means. E: joepinetree posted:Removing the SALT deduction cap mostly benefits the really rich. This is what should truly enrage people who support the democratic party. If Biden wins, put pressure on your state senators to tell them to vote against removing the cap. The SALT deduction altogether needs to go. Kalit fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Oct 6, 2020 |
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Oct 6, 2020 20:31
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Marx Was A Lib posted:....for Americans that attended an HBCU and live or work in a historically disadvantaged area for at least 3 years and can show a consistent pattern of loss throughout those years? Love those means tested plans of hers. Full 2k for anyone who earns less than 120k and parents can claim an additional 2k per child (3 children/6k max) so it's not the worst of means testing. By the time it got through congress, some of us might even see a dollar or two.
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Oct 6, 2020 20:33
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Marx Was A Lib posted:....for Americans that attended an HBCU and live or work in a historically disadvantaged area for at least 3 years and can show a consistent pattern of loss throughout those years? Love those means tested plans of hers. Nah, you're confusing Kamala Harris the Presidential candidate who might be held responsible for her policies with Kamala Harris the Senator who can comfortably cosponsor decent legislation knowing it'll never come to a floor vote because everybody in her party is willing to submit to  and let bills die just because Mitch McConnell doesn't like them.
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Oct 6, 2020 20:37
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Civilized Fishbot posted:When a neighborhood experiences a flow of new high-income residents, incentivizing consumer-directed businesses like apartment buildings, restaurants, or grocery stores to redirect their business toward the new residents who can pay more and provide a higher profit margin. This results in the neighborhood's original residents losing some or all of the businesses which catered to their lower incomes (low-rent apartments) or unique cultural needs (specialty ethnic grocery stores). No gentrification discussion is complete without mentioning two additional things: 1. These new residents and especially the businesses that open there to serve them become major contributors to police violence against the original residents. They call the cops more frequently, lobby the city government for an increased police presence, and sometimes form business improvement districts so that the new rich owners taking control of the neighborhood can get extra, rich people-directed police patrols. This makes the neighborhood physically dangerous for its original residents and forces them from the area. 2. Capital development companies force the original residents out of their homes by financial means as well. This takes at least two different forms: development companies scamming lower-income residents to sell their homes en bloc at below-market prices so that they can acquire whole blocks for redevelopment, and acquiring rental properties in the area so that the tenants can be evicted to make room for redevelopment.
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Oct 6, 2020 20:40
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Eminai posted:Nah, you're confusing Kamala Harris the Presidential candidate who might be held responsible for her policies with Kamala Harris the Senator who can comfortably cosponsor decent legislation knowing it'll never come to a floor vote because everybody in her party is willing to submit to The best worst part is knowing that the legislation is dead anyway, she could propose/support something actually materially useful and not have to answer for it.
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Oct 6, 2020 20:43
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The Oldest Man posted:1. These new residents and especially the businesses that open there to serve them become major contributors to police violence against the original residents. They call the cops more frequently, lobby the city government for an increased police presence, and sometimes form business improvement districts so that the new rich owners taking control of the neighborhood can get extra, rich people-directed police patrols. This makes the neighborhood physically dangerous for its original residents and forces them from the area. Out of curiosity, do you have any links with studies looking at this? I've thought about this effect, but now I'm interested in seeing a concrete study over long term origination of 911 calls and police violence before and during gentrification of a neighborhood.
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Oct 6, 2020 20:45
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i am the bird posted:Full 2k for anyone who earns less than 120k and parents can claim an additional 2k per child (3 children/6k max) so it's not the worst of means testing. By the time it got through congress, some of us might even see a dollar or two. If they run on this I'll vote for Biden/Harris instead of Howie. Clock's ticking, those mail in ballots are coming any day now in Colorado and the drop box is down the street...
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Oct 6, 2020 20:47
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Pakistani Brad Pitt posted:If they run on this I'll vote for Biden/Harris instead of Howie. Clock's ticking, those mail in ballots are coming any day now in Colorado and the drop box is down the street... I've been saying for months that this is all they need to do to ensure a landslide but alas, Austerity Joe won't ever support it (and I doubt Kamala actually would either given the real chance to do so).
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Oct 6, 2020 20:50
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i am the bird posted:I've been saying for months that this is all they need to do to ensure a landslide but alas, Austerity Joe won't ever support it (and I doubt Kamala actually would either given the real chance to do so). I'd have to think harder about voting Hickenlooper in order to give them another generic D vote to actually pass some semblance of it. I'm torn whether he's spineless enough to just fall in the party line if a Democratic executive branch actually wanted to pass such a thing, or whether he'd use this to become the new generation Austerity adult in the room. I lean former, thankfully, I don't think he has the balls to make a stand if the Party says its otherwise OK.
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Oct 6, 2020 20:59
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Pakistani Brad Pitt posted:I'd have to think harder about voting Hickenlooper in order to give them another generic D vote to actually pass some semblance of it. I'm torn whether he's spineless enough to just fall in the party line if a Democratic executive branch actually wanted to pass such a thing, or whether he'd use this to become the new generation Austerity adult in the room. I lean former, thankfully, I don't think he has the balls to make a stand if the Party says its otherwise OK. Thankfully it won't come to that, because if there aren't enough center-right Dems to prevent something that would piss off the rich then it won't even touch the floor or be allowed to be discussed at all. The time to be supporting these things if it's some grand strategy is right now and they are not, because - and they themselves will tell you this so don't call me a loon - it's not their own base they give two shits about, it's only and exclusively moderate white Republicans in the suburbs. The reason they've gotten to this pathetic low point is exactly because people keep voting for them even after they've wiped their asses with them. What it really all comes down to is if you trust him to actually take even the first step to implementing even the hamstrung and toothless reforms he is proposing, or if you do not, and all of history is only on one side here. Crime Bill Joe "Nothing is off the table" Biden is going to inherit the biggest mandate for crushing and sweeping austerity in US history and he's gonna JUMP. Nobody under 55 is getting out of this better off because his whole career and campaign has been telling olds that he's not gonna harm them at all, but the snotty kids who want change are gonna really fuckin suffer
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Oct 6, 2020 21:19
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is the 40% CGT likely to even happen? That seems like it would infuriate a substantial number of Dem donors.
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Oct 6, 2020 21:31
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Epic High Five posted:What it really all comes down to is if you trust him to actually take even the first step to implementing even the hamstrung and toothless reforms he is proposing, or if you do not, and all of history is only on one side here. Gonna disagree with your first sentence, but it's because I agree with your second. I would not be at all surprised to see some of these tax proposals be very seriously proposed during a Biden administration. But that's because they'll be right next to various austerity measures. Even Alan "Social Security is a cow with 310 million tits" Simpson was ready to tax cap gains as ordinary income, if it meant getting at those benefit cuts.
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Oct 6, 2020 21:36
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Disnesquick posted:is the 40% CGT likely to even happen? That seems like it would infuriate a substantial number of Dem donors. It'll be written by lobbyists and donors to include no end of loopholes don't worry, at the same time they draft a how-to to send to every accounting department of what to apply for and when to preserve their old rates. The key words to look for are "estate tax" and then a real big number next to it because anything short of a direct attack on intergenerational wealth means anything to the ones who control both parties at this point. I haven't looked to see what his plan there is but I promise you it's some hybrid system designed around 12 different levels of asset valuations each of 4 different categories such that someone can just declare their entire basis of wealth a work of art and pay nothing. eviltastic posted:Gonna disagree with your first sentence, but it's because I agree with your second. I would not be at all surprised to see some of these tax proposals be very seriously proposed during a Biden administration. But that's because they'll be right next to various austerity measures. Even Alan "Social Security is a cow with 310 million tits" Simpson was ready to tax cap gains as ordinary income, if it meant getting at those benefit cuts. I expect if they're included at all, they'll be included to get the stuff for the proles killed but then quietly removed at the last second, like every oversight measure in the CARES Act and a hundred other examples but yeah your broader point that they may be included to make it more palatable to the proles may be valid. I just don't think it'll be necessary if it's Biden doing and not Trump Epic High Five fucked around with this message at 21:44 on Oct 6, 2020 |
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Oct 6, 2020 21:41
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Disnesquick posted:is the 40% CGT likely to even happen? That seems like it would infuriate a substantial number of Dem donors. In fact some of them are quite explicit about it! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBm8ILOgVEw
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Oct 6, 2020 21:54
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Epic High Five posted:The key words to look for are "estate tax" and then a real big number next to it because anything short of a direct attack on intergenerational wealth means anything to the ones who control both parties at this point. I haven't looked to see what his plan there is but I promise you it's some hybrid system designed around 12 different levels of asset valuations each of 4 different categories such that someone can just declare their entire basis of wealth a work of art and pay nothing. I doubt he plans to restore the estate tax to its former glory, but he is talking about killing stepped-up basis, which would throw one of the current ways the wealthy avoid taxes on their inheritances into turmoil. Whether he'd actually carry through with it is always the question, of course.
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Oct 6, 2020 21:54
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Disnesquick posted:What terminology would you suggest as a replacement, in that case? Racism, xenophobia, and other forms of bigotry are really weird to pin down as being caused by any specific thing (beyond the obvious natural human inclination towards some amount of xenophobia, apparently, and some environmental factors). Political and economic structuring of society has had remarkably little impact on the existence of horrific bigotry. Capitalist countries are almost all extremely bigoted, communist countries so far have all had huge problems with bigotry, scandinavian socialist countries have big problems with bigotry, etc. etc. Strong system-wide protections for minority or vulnerable or suppressed populations that are backed up with serious consequences and the dismantling of systemically oppressive structures wherever they're found appears to be the key more than a specific political or economic structure. There also are precious few examples of this being done as it's a colossal undertaking, but the best examples are probably South Africa post apartheid or the decolonization efforts, which have been largely very rough because power structures really hate being disassembled. If anything, one of the clear lessons of all of those various circumstances is that it's a multi-generation undertaking as that unjust legacy just keeps turning up in different forms. So the best terminology? imo just call it what it is: bigotry, or systemic bigotry.
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Oct 6, 2020 21:57
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Kalit posted:Out of curiosity, do you have any links with studies looking at this? I've thought about this effect, but now I'm interested in seeing a concrete study over long term origination of 911 calls and police violence before and during gentrification of a neighborhood. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/cico.12473 The background sections also have links to the dumptrucks full of prior research on this subject. Here's one of the many, many findings. quote:Because gentrification is characterized by differences over time, cross‐sectional data provide a limited window into the process. To account for gentrification's dynamism, I use longitudinal data to measure change over time in each element of gentrification (race, class, and property value) between 2009 and 2015. I compare the gentrification measures to the three measures of low‐level policing in fixed effects models to analyze change within neighborhoods, not differences between neighborhoods. Using a panel of 501 census tracts across the seven years, I estimate the relationship between policing and gentrification. The Oldest Man fucked around with this message at 22:28 on Oct 6, 2020 |
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Oct 6, 2020 22:25
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Herstory Begins Now posted:Racism, xenophobia, and other forms of bigotry are really weird to pin down as being caused by any specific thing (beyond the obvious natural human inclination towards some amount of xenophobia, apparently, and some environmental factors). Political and economic structuring of society has had remarkably little impact on the existence of horrific bigotry. Capitalist countries are almost all extremely bigoted, communist countries so far have all had huge problems with bigotry, scandinavian socialist countries have big problems with bigotry, etc. etc. Strong system-wide protections for minority or vulnerable or suppressed populations that are backed up with serious consequences and the dismantling of systemically oppressive structures wherever they're found appears to be the key more than a specific political or economic structure. There also are precious few examples of this being done as it's a colossal undertaking, but the best examples are probably South Africa post apartheid or the decolonization efforts, which have been largely very rough because power structures really hate being disassembled. If anything, one of the clear lessons of all of those various circumstances is that it's a multi-generation undertaking as that unjust legacy just keeps turning up in different forms. I think you might have responded to the wrong question there because that OP was specifically concerned with terminology around longer-term precariousness as distinct from short-term precariousness, with a view to analysing how the far-right are better able to recruit from the those in the former category compared to the latter. edit: In terms of what you've actually posted here, I'd agree that creating a hierarchy-free society is a multi-generational undertaking: Communism isn't something that can just be declared but the end of a very long road. In terms of undoing bigotry, Northern Ireland was a good example before the Tories decided to sacrifice it on the alter of restoring feudalism. Active Quasar fucked around with this message at 22:45 on Oct 6, 2020 |
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Oct 6, 2020 22:34
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Grayly Squirrel posted:So only Republicans can use/dupe/exploit Democrats, but Democrats can't use/dupe/exploit Republicans? There's no need for duping anyone; they're just in ideological agreement on most things to begin with. If anyone is saying that these Republicans are tricking the Democrats into being right-wing, they're also wrong. There was simply never a major ideological division between Democratic Party leadership and neoconservatives to begin with.
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Oct 7, 2020 00:32
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The Oldest Man posted:https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/cico.12473 Thank you for this information, that was a good read. It was interesting to see the differences in proactive vs maintenance arrests as the gentrification occurred. Overall, none of it was too surprising, but it's always great to see (what looks to be) well researched data becoming more available. Although, I wish that New York made 911 calls public. The biggest part that made me cringe in that research paper was the following assumption: quote:It is also likely residents who call 311 are more likely to call 911 It might be true, but impressive to see that boldly stated in a research paper without a reference. The one thing that you had mentioned that wasn't in this research paper was the trend of police violence against lower income residents with gentrification (if I interpreted that correctly). Unless you're making the assumption that all police interactions increase the chance for police violence. Which... could be true.... but the [subjective] severity of police violence could change as well. For example, if a gentrifying neighborhood starts having fewer homicides (such as that research paper suggests), cops might be slightly less trigger happy and kill fewer people. I was trying to find concrete data on this, but a quick google search isn't pulling up much (unsuprisingly). Mostly just "increased police presence offers more opportunities" type stuff, but nothing concrete with severity (e.g. number of hospital trips by a victim after they were arrested and mysteriously ended up brutalized). I was also trying to find data about police misconduct in proactive vs maintenance arrests to see if there was a correlation, but again came up empty. If you have any helpful links (if I didn't misunderstand you), I would be happy to read those as well.
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Oct 7, 2020 03:52
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Bishyaler posted:400,000 a year, barely pocket change See this poo poo? This poo poo makes me mad. Biden makes me mad, but these fuckers make me really really mad. Someone needs to make a low-fee guillotine industry index fund for me to invest in.
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Oct 7, 2020 04:24
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Jimbozig posted:See this poo poo? This poo poo makes me mad. Biden makes me mad, but these fuckers make me really really mad. Living in NYC this kinda poo poo was a pretty common refrain and it boiled my blood. Like yes it's an expensive city, on the other hand Bob you own an airplane and a nice place in Brooklyn and have some of the best health insurance in the world and you already have a million in your retirement fund and also we're having this conversation in earshot of someone who's doing hard labor and living paycheck to paycheck.
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Oct 7, 2020 04:47
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Jimbozig posted:See this poo poo? This poo poo makes me mad. Biden makes me mad, but these fuckers make me really really mad. What makes you mad? Biden wants to raise taxes, the article is the one saying “woah there, raise taxes on the rich? 400,000 isn’t so rich buster!” How does that make you mad at Biden?
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Oct 7, 2020 04:51
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