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T-man
Aug 22, 2010


Talk shit, get bzzzt.

Do not fold, spindle, or mutilate me

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CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!

Inceltown posted:

Is it really incompetence if they're getting people to work harder and not paying them more? Sounds a lot like the bosses are getting exactly what they want.

it’s debatable whether crunch time actually accomplished anything

BonHair
Apr 28, 2007

CharlestheHammer posted:

it’s debatable whether crunch time actually accomplished anything

Clocked time equals productivity equals accomplishments. Efficiency? That when you get more clocked time for less money.

Zeppelin Insanity
Oct 28, 2009

Wahnsinn
Einfach
Wahnsinn
As we all know, people are much more productive at hour 14 than hour 3 of work. They're just getting in the groove!

dex_sda
Oct 11, 2012


Zeppelin Insanity posted:

Two of my friends work at CDPR and they had a good laugh at the non-mandatory overtime the first time it was announced. They were already in crunch for a while back then. The company tried quite hard to replicate the Silicon Valley start-up culture, with a fancy office with lots of facilities, but then working employees to the bone at average/slightly below average wages. They both took a relative pay cut when they started to work at CDPR, but thought it would be a good thing to have on a resume. One of the main ways of non-mandatory peer pressure is that middle management all work even more than regular employees, which creates that whole "in it together" and "support your colleagues" and risk of resentment if others don't do it.

Every single instance of crunch time, and/or delays, is upper management incompetence at project management and comically optimistic views of timelines. That it's common is worker exploitation, yes, but it's equally a sign of upper class incompetence.

as i said, to my knowledge many in cdpr have been in 'unofficial' crunch since jan 2019

Cold on a Cob
Feb 6, 2006

i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually

College Slice

Inceltown posted:

Is it really incompetence if they're getting people to work harder and not paying them more? Sounds a lot like the bosses are getting exactly what they want.

i sincerely believe this is the entire point of "agile" project management. sprints sound like a synonym for grinds to me and often function the same way

Len
Jan 21, 2008

Pouches, bandages, shoulderpad, cyber-eye...

Bitchin'!


Shame Boy posted:

Not sure why you used the word "but" there, that's all consistent with silicon valley startup culture :v:

Also:


God I hate this poo poo, my wife's company does this. Everyone there doesn't take lunch breaks (wtf) so she's pressured into also not taking a lunch break or else she'd be the only one conspicuously absent, even though one of the few worker protections America actually has is that you're legally entitled to a goddamn lunch break.

That's dependent on where you are, Ohio has no such law from my understanding. Which was why it was comical that walmart would write you up if you were a minute late to a lunch

dex_sda
Oct 11, 2012


Cold on a Cob posted:

i sincerely believe this is the entire point of "agile" project management. sprints sound like a synonym for grinds to me and often function the same way

yeah having a sprint means a deadline every two weeks, so you keep being constantly stressed to fulfill your metrics

thankfully very few places implement sprints 'correctly' so it ends up being more chill but the times I did actual sprints were the worst

Cold on a Cob
Feb 6, 2006

i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually

College Slice

dex_sda posted:

yeah having a sprint means a deadline every two weeks, so you keep being constantly stressed to fulfill your metrics

thankfully very few places implement sprints 'correctly' so it ends up being more chill but the times I did actual sprints were the worst

yeah, same. i opted to avoid proper tech companies completely from now on and take less pay but reasonable deadlines

Cold on a Cob
Feb 6, 2006

i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually

College Slice
https://twitter.com/Gizmodo/status/1313502343426646016

Inceltown
Aug 6, 2019

https://twitter.com/KrangTNelson/status/1313613144221257740

The Bloop
Jul 5, 2004

by Fluffdaddy
I like my corn like I like my women

loose

on the cob

DR FRASIER KRANG
Feb 4, 2005

"Are you forgetting that just this afternoon I was punched in the face by a turtle now dead?
want to shoot a corno film in that thing

Zamujasa
Oct 27, 2010



Bread Liar

Marx Was A Lib posted:

Checks out, laborers aren't people, they're just things.

No, they're resources. Human resources. :suicide:

Kreeblah
May 17, 2004

INSERT QUACK TO CONTINUE


Taco Defender

Zamujasa posted:

No, they're resources. Human resources. :suicide:

Much of corporate lingo as dropped the "human" part of that. Now they're just resources to be exploited like any other.

Zeppelin Insanity
Oct 28, 2009

Wahnsinn
Einfach
Wahnsinn
At company, we believe that human capital is our most important resource I write with tears of empathy welling up in my eyes

T-man
Aug 22, 2010


Talk shit, get bzzzt.

Order a ton of workers but you're actually ordering them by the metric ton

Jel Shaker
Apr 19, 2003

so does the water get hot enough to also steam corn? if so its sounds like something the Finns would have invented

Dang It Bhabhi!
May 27, 2004



ASK ME ABOUT
BEING
ESCULA GRIND'S
#1 SIMP

Jel Shaker posted:

so does the water get hot enough to also steam corn? if so its sounds like something the Finns would have invented



been a while, y'all.

ArmedZombie
Jun 6, 2004


you do not in fact have to hand it to them

happyhippy
Feb 21, 2005

Playing games, watching movies, owning goons. 'sup
Pillbug

Reminds me of an infomercial I saw years ago of some chicken rotisserie oven that had a 'free' inbuilt steamer on the top of it.
The design flaw of it was that it permanently had a boiling hot top no matter if you wanted to steam poo poo or not.

Lib and let die
Aug 26, 2004

yes i need 6 ears of gamer girl hot tub corn overnighted to me please tia

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug

dex_sda posted:

yeah having a sprint means a deadline every two weeks, so you keep being constantly stressed to fulfill your metrics

thankfully very few places implement sprints 'correctly' so it ends up being more chill but the times I did actual sprints were the worst

In theory the team sets their own metrics based on how many points they managed to do per sprint in the past, but in practice management pushes for the number to go up and PMs try to jam unplanned tasks into the sprint to make themselves look better.

Shame Boy
Mar 2, 2010

Ensign Expendable posted:

In theory the team sets their own metrics based on how many points they managed to do per sprint in the past, but in practice management pushes for the number to go up and PMs try to jam unplanned tasks into the sprint to make themselves look better.

Personally I like our system of "nobody ever met sprint deadlines anyway so we just ignore them and declare sprints done whenever we feel like it, carrying over anything not done to the next one, because who cares"

The only way I've ever seen agile development work is when it breaks down enough that you can get things done.

Lib and let die
Aug 26, 2004

Shame Boy posted:

Personally I like our system of "nobody ever met sprint deadlines anyway so we just ignore them and declare sprints done whenever we feel like it, carrying over anything not done to the next one, because who cares"

The only way I've ever seen agile development work is when it breaks down enough that you can get things done.

i spent nearly a decade working in voice and the best projects were the ones where the project manager just stepped back and let us do our loving jobs

the more poo poo you tack on to just getting the loving job done, the more poo poo you have dragging your people down

a lot of these development and project models exist in the realm of bullshit jobs

Lib and let die has issued a correction as of 17:03 on Oct 7, 2020

dex_sda
Oct 11, 2012


Ensign Expendable posted:

In theory the team sets their own metrics based on how many points they managed to do per sprint in the past, but in practice management pushes for the number to go up and PMs try to jam unplanned tasks into the sprint to make themselves look better.

Even the perfectly spherical agile doesn't work because estimating work is notoriously impossible

dex_sda
Oct 11, 2012


Marx Was A Lib posted:

i spent nearly a decade working in voice and the best projects were the ones where the project manager just stepped back and let us do our loving jobs

the more poo poo you tack on to just getting the loving job done, the more poo poo you have dragging your people down

a lot of these development and project models exist in the realm of bullshit jobs

anarchy ftw

Shame Boy
Mar 2, 2010

dex_sda posted:

Even the perfectly spherical agile doesn't work because estimating work is notoriously impossible

That's why you use Fibonacci sequence StOrY PoInTs that don't mean anything!!

Wait this 5-point ticket took you a day to complete, but the last 5-point one took half a day, why aren't you working faster?

Speleothing
May 6, 2008

Spare batteries are pretty key.
I showed that hot tub to my wife, and she nodded to the first three pictures like "ooh that's a good idea." And busted out laughing at the fourth.

We'll never forget it now, so ads working as intended.

Lib and let die
Aug 26, 2004

Shame Boy posted:

That's why you use Fibonacci sequence StOrY PoInTs that don't mean anything!!

Wait this 5-point ticket took you a day to complete, but the last 5-point one took half a day, why aren't you working faster?

oh god, when i worked as post-sale install, it was a god damned poo poo show. nobody involved in the pre sale or purchasing process knew poo poo about poo poo. the best way i could analogize it would be like being given an urgent package to deliver, that has to get there by close of business today, with no address, no means of transit, and a network of logistics support operators just going "i don't know, i've never been asked that before."

sometimes i could get a sale in and have it turned around in 30 minutes for a complex, multiproduct solution and then turn around and spend the next 4 hours over a $1000 seat order for dumbphones on a warehouse floor that absolutely had to be installed today but we had no remote gateway information stored for the customer, none of their manufacturer information is in our database, and the customer doesn't know a butt set from an actual IP set.

(to be clear, i am 100% on the side of my comrades that have been thrown in over their heads and inherited an ancient VOIP system, my frustration lies not with them but with the systems that failed them)

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man


Corn on the cob is more popular in our household than hot tubs so

Shame Boy
Mar 2, 2010

Marx Was A Lib posted:

oh god, when i worked as post-sale install, it was a god damned poo poo show. nobody involved in the pre sale or purchasing process knew poo poo about poo poo. the best way i could analogize it would be like being given an urgent package to deliver, that has to get there by close of business today, with no address, no means of transit, and a network of logistics support operators just going "i don't know, i've never been asked that before."

sometimes i could get a sale in and have it turned around in 30 minutes for a complex, multiproduct solution and then turn around and spend the next 4 hours over a $1000 seat order for dumbphones on a warehouse floor that absolutely had to be installed today but we had no remote gateway information stored for the customer, none of their manufacturer information is in our database, and the customer doesn't know a butt set from an actual IP set.

(to be clear, i am 100% on the side of my comrades that have been thrown in over their heads and inherited an ancient VOIP system, my frustration lies not with them but with the systems that failed them)

At my last job I once had to fly to New York City to do an on-site install only to discover that when we said "we need this this and this set up before we arrive" and they said "yes of course, that'll all be ready when you get here" what they meant was "we don't understand what you're asking so we're going to do nothing at all". Can't afford to stay longer cuz the contract only had a budget for a week, better get it working by then!!!

Shame Boy
Mar 2, 2010

That was also the moment I learned that some places still work 9 to 5, count your lunch break as part of the 8 hours, and encourage you to actually leave the goddamn building for lunch and at 5. It was real fun getting to 5 and having the host tech who was assigned to chaperone us being all "whelp it's 5 I'm leaving" and we're just like "uhh I'm not allowed to stop working until 6..."

Dude was real cool though and just told our boss that we left at 6 every day when we actually left at 5. Good dude, I like that dude, thanks dude.

Lib and let die
Aug 26, 2004

Shame Boy posted:

At my last job I once had to fly to New York City to do an on-site install only to discover that when we said "we need this this and this set up before we arrive" and they said "yes of course, that'll all be ready when you get here" what they meant was "we don't understand what you're asking so we're going to do nothing at all". Can't afford to stay longer cuz the contract only had a budget for a week, better get it working by then!!!

i didn't go on site very often, but the first time i did i told one of the more senior techs that the pm said everything i needed on site

boy did we have a good laugh at home depot that night

Spatial
Nov 15, 2007

dex_sda posted:

Even the perfectly spherical agile doesn't work because estimating work is notoriously impossible
i've worked on several issues in the last few years which were estimated at 3-5 days but wound up taking over 3 months each :v:

dex_sda
Oct 11, 2012


Shame Boy posted:

That's why you use Fibonacci sequence StOrY PoInTs that don't mean anything!!

Wait this 5-point ticket took you a day to complete, but the last 5-point one took half a day, why aren't you working faster?

I had tasks at my old job which I was told to rate at 3 points because I did them very quickly thanks to my algorithms skill. Then I went on vacation and when I came back I got blasted for badly estimating because the task was not simply done using stack overflow + google and the person that took one of those stories (which they did even though I said I would do it next sprint after I was back from vacation) was out of their depth so it clogged up that person for the entire two weeks. motherfucker you're the one that done told me to put it as 3

taqueso
Mar 8, 2004


:911:
:wookie: :thermidor: :wookie:
:dehumanize:

:pirate::hf::tinfoil:

steinrokkan posted:

Yes, the game featured no visible nudity, but of course it was possible to get control of the scene and show the nude model they pasted her face onto.

That model they slapped her face onto was made from a full body scan of her, so it's weirder than you make it out to be

Son of Thunderbeast
Sep 21, 2002

taqueso posted:

That model they slapped her face onto was made from a full body scan of her, so it's weirder than you make it out to be

A high-res scan too, so if someone wants to make the case that there's any effective distinction between seeing her "actual" nude body vs. seeing the game model they're going to have to wade into philosophical hair-splitting. Meanwhile normal brains are going to be like "that's gross and violating"

I forget, was that the same model that they found had a lovingly rendered and detailed 3d vagina?

Cold on a Cob
Feb 6, 2006

i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually

College Slice
It's creepy as gently caress either way but I seriously don't think it's her actual body. I'm sure it's some generic asset from the neck down.

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Fame Douglas
Nov 20, 2013

by Fluffdaddy
It's not creepy at all. It was a generic model and it couldn't be seen in the game, going through the work of covering up a body you can't see either way would be wholly unnecessary extra work.

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