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Vote to threadban Bioshuffle This poll is closed. |
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146 | 85.38% |
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25 | 14.62% |
| Total: | 171 votes | ||
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Asgerd posted:Crossed is practically un-adaptable, since if you were to jettison the dumb edgelord poo poo there's literally nothing left. It's just a completely worthless premise. "What can I get away with writing without having the cops search my basement." That's the entire rationale behind Crossed.
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Oct 7, 2020 21:59
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Asgerd posted:It's just a completely worthless premise. world faring scavengers that dig up pieces of the fallen world with their own language and idioms, discovering that a madman bred "smart evil zombies" and the zombos have their own culture
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Oct 7, 2020 22:02
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Alchenar posted:The show seems to be trying to have it both ways with Supes being an allegory for racism/racial-supremism, while at the same time having actual straight up racism. Stormfront in particular states that she only actually cares about supes vs non-supes, but is also very clearly traditionally racist. Right, because supes didn't exist originally. Therefore racism existed. Then supes exist and supeism arises in parallel. She was originally a racist nazi. Then she got compound V and ended up norm-ist(? sans-ist (sans V)) as a consequence.
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Oct 7, 2020 22:10
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Blaise330 posted:I like the comics where Huey is severely pissed at Annie for getting raped before she even met him to the point where he can't even stomach looking at her face. She has to track him down to his home country to apologize to him. Hughie being a stupid regressive twat about sex isn't played as particularly sympathetic on his part though. The plotline develops with Annie straight up calling him out as a manchild.
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Oct 7, 2020 22:23
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BIG HEADLINE posted:"What can I get away with writing without having the cops search my basement." That's the entire rationale behind Crossed. FilthyImp posted:Moore took Crossed and sprinkled in some Clockwork Orange jargon and created the only engaging thing set in the world I mean you COULD jettison like 98% of the rape, baby cannibalism and just make it like Imp said: (not spoiling as its an old horrible comic that you shouldn't even waste the time torrenting if people still do that) Walking Dead meets 28 days later but then would it be Crossed anymore? I mean that is what it reminded me of back in the day....28 days later Rage virus with lots more rape. You could do that but walking dead rode that horse and salted the ground it walked on so I doubt anyone is interested or will be for a decade. I remember reading the few issues here and there and enjoying the standard post apoc fare but then deleting the whole series cbr as it was just too much of the gross shite. You can find the same nugget of good in almost any post apoc story and not have to worry if anyone caught you reading it. The core of Crossed is vile and it should be forgotten. I haven't read the Boys and it sounds effin dreadful but there was a core of something a little different that someone talented could make something good out of. I will say that most writers would have hosed up Homelander. Most actors would not have been able to make the Homelander work. Same thing with Butcher and most of the characters. Imagine the Boys done by Noah Hawley (and I love Fargo and Legion but jesus it gets pretentious). Imagine Netflix Marvel team doing the Boys. Imagine the Inhumans guys doing the Boys. Maybe the guys behind the 2013 version of Utopia might have been able to pull it off but not many. We got lucky.
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Oct 7, 2020 22:27
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DogsInSpace! posted:I will say that most writers would have hosed up Homelander. Most actors would not have been able to make the Homelander work. Same thing with Butcher and most of the characters. Imagine the Boys done by Noah Hawley (and I love Fargo and Legion but jesus it gets pretentious). Imagine Netflix Marvel team doing the Boys. Imagine the Inhumans guys doing the Boys. Maybe the guys behind the 2013 version of Utopia might have been able to pull it off but not many. We got lucky. Completely agree that this writing team, cast, and production have really stuck the landing on turning The Boys into something so watchable. Ennis is a land of contrast, I really enjoyed his run on post Civil War Thunderbolts. Having Scorpion infected with the venom symbyote be a cannibal who ate guards was dumb but there's a really good issue with Jack Flag.
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Oct 7, 2020 22:35
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massive spider posted:Hughie being a stupid regressive twat about sex isn't played as particularly sympathetic on his part though. The plotline develops with Annie straight up calling him out as a manchild. Re-read this scene to confirm and no, it's even worse than I remembered. He calls her the "biggest slut of all time", who "whored herself out" to The Seven, and ends with "gently caress off, you oval office". She tells him he has "every right to be mad" and she's "so sorry for all of it". The he walks off leaving her on her knees crying. Remember, this is him finding out she was raped by three people. It's not even "I'm sorry but I can't even look at you", it's full on berating her for being a slut and a whore for several pages, asking her if she likes taking it up the rear end from Homelander then storming off while she sobs and begs him to come back. It's really, really horrible and almost made me stop reading the comic. It did make me lose any sympathy for Hughie as a character. Between his treatment of Starlight and the various brutal murders by the end I barely wanted him to survive let alone ride off into the sunset with Annie. jabby fucked around with this message at 23:56 on Oct 7, 2020 |
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Oct 7, 2020 22:51
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Asgerd posted:His comics are terrible and the only way to make a good show out of them is to change basically everything, which is exactly what they did. I’m glad I don’t have whatever you have that prevents you from enjoying Preacher, it’s very good.
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Oct 7, 2020 22:52
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jabby posted:He calls her the "biggest slut of all time", who "whored herself out" to The Seven, and ends with "gently caress off, you oval office". Jeusus christ that's horrible. I can only imagine the pitch for this, there had to have been a lot of "It won't be like the comics" to sell it as a TV show.
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Oct 7, 2020 22:54
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Bust Rodd posted:I’m glad I don’t have whatever you have that prevents you from enjoying Preacher, it’s very good. Preacher is once again an interesting story couched in all the usual Ennis bullshit. Less of it maybe, but it’s still there.
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Oct 7, 2020 22:54
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Blendy posted:Completely agree that this writing team, cast, and production have really stuck the landing on turning The Boys into something so watchable. That was Warren Ellis. Those two names confuse me too so no judgement. I LOVED when Norman Osborn went mad, donned the old Goblin costume and killed like half of his team. He also did The Authority, Hellstorm, Transmetropolitan, Planetary, Nextwave and a couple of other things. I stopped reading comics not long after the Dark Reign ended (god I bloody well loved Dark Reign). Sadly a goon just mentioned in another thread Ellis got caught being problematic. Sucks as his comics were really good and a big part of any kid picking up comics at the end of the 90s and early 00s. Hopefully his remorse is genuine. jabby posted:He calls her the "biggest slut of all time", who "whored herself out" to The Seven, and ends with "gently caress off, you oval office". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldda7vhmuxU Seriously? <sigh> edit: I will say all this stuff makes me appreciate the show more. loving epic. Ennis had a run on 2000ad that had a couple of cool moments and was.... semi ok. His Hellblazer run was solid and still gets me. Hitman was great and just reread the trades and still good if a few problematic parts. Preacher is fairly good but still very Ennis. My take is the same as earlier: he just needs someone to keep him from going too far. A handler or wrangler, if you will. DogsInSpace! fucked around with this message at 23:04 on Oct 7, 2020 |
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Oct 7, 2020 22:58
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Dracula Factory posted:Jeusus christ that's horrible. I can only imagine the pitch for this, there had to have been a lot of "It won't be like the comics" to sell it as a TV show. Yeah, I'm still surprised it made it past anyone reading the source material. Let alone that it ended up dripping with incisive, left-leaning political commentary. Must have been one hell of an elevator pitch.
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Oct 7, 2020 22:59
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alexandriao posted:Right, because supes didn't exist originally. Therefore racism existed. Then supes exist and supeism arises in parallel. Yeah you get away with it here because its a pretty recent divergence from our timeline. Compared to like, Netflix' Bright, where you have racist elves and orcs and yet everything is still the same culture as today.
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Oct 7, 2020 23:00
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Bust Rodd posted:I’m glad I don’t have whatever you have that prevents you from enjoying Preacher, it’s very good. the show was better
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Oct 7, 2020 23:01
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Dracula Factory posted:Jeusus christ that's horrible. I can only imagine the pitch for this, there had to have been a lot of "It won't be like the comics" to sell it as a TV show. Preacher is a work with some interesting stuff in it but a lot of Ennis type stuff in it, and so for years it was discussed as one of those "un-adaptable" medias that it was fun to talk about how you could never get away with it on TV. Then Seth Rogen and co come along and must have had a pitch like "look there's cool stuff in here, obviously we're cutting out like half of it" and that show did alright? (And actually did show a lot of the typical "un-adaptable" things people talk about) So I imagine the pitch for this is "yeah same deal here, we'll be re-writing things". And for that matter, shock sells. I'm not wild about this post but if we look beyond talking down to the whole thread Bust Rodd posted:Lmao love this new generation of hot takes about how Ennis is an edge lord, as if that wasn’t A) the entire point, B) incredibly successful, and C) ultimately a legacy that impacted some of the biggest names in Hollywood and informed popular culture for years to come. There is a kernel of truth here that shock sells, it gets people talking, Ennis profits off of people talking about the shock and the TV/Amazon producers likely see the same thing. But shock for shock's sake gets old real fast, so its good that The Boys has competent writing and editing.
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Oct 7, 2020 23:06
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Bust Rodd posted:I’m glad I don’t have whatever you have that prevents you from enjoying Preacher, it’s very good. I haven't read it, because everything else I've read of his is utter poo poo 
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Oct 7, 2020 23:07
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Asgerd posted:I haven't read it, because everything else I've read of his is utter poo poo watch the show, its great
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Oct 7, 2020 23:09
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https://twitter.com/alexqarbuckle/status/1313967388145188864
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Oct 7, 2020 23:22
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scary ghost dog posted:the show was better Tulip was one hell of a character in that show.
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Oct 7, 2020 23:25
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They could have a hell of a time adapting Vic the Veep from the comics into a Trump analogue.
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Oct 7, 2020 23:46
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jabby posted:He calls her the "biggest slut of all time", who "whored herself out" to The Seven, and ends with "gently caress off, you oval office". It’s horrible to read and it’s impossible to not place your sympathy with Annie. It’s an ugly and ridiculous outburst on his part from a character whose main conflict throughout the series is that he’s insecure and has weird rear end ideas about toxic masculinity (which butcher takes every chance to push in the wrong direction ) If it makes you hate him that’s a fair reaction sure, but as far as uncomfortable gross scenes go it makes sense as an accurate portrayal of a regressive nice guy and obviously isn’t something the reader is expected to cheer. massive spider fucked around with this message at 00:12 on Oct 8, 2020 |
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Oct 7, 2020 23:54
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massive spider posted:It’s horrible to read and it’s difficult to not place your sympathy with Annie. It’s an ugly and ridiculous outburst on his part from a character whose main conflict throughout the series is that he’s insecure in his masculinity (and actively being influenced negatively by Butchers toxic masculinity) If it makes you hate him that’s a fair reaction sure, but as far as uncomfortable gross scenes go it makes sense and obviously isn’t something the reader is expected to cheer. I could believe that if he suffered any sort of negative consequence for his "outburst" or if Starlight didn't actively seek him out and ask to get back together with him afterwards. You might not be expected to cheer Hughie on, but at best it's treated as a fairly neutral act with blame on both sides. I don't think Ennis is big on moral lessons about toxic masculinity.
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Oct 8, 2020 00:09
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Asgerd posted:I haven't read it, because everything else I've read of his is utter poo poo ClydeFrog posted:Tulip was one hell of a character in that show. Going from show to comic might be interesting as the comic is a bit more of an American road film meets Western written by an immature Irishman. The characters were a bit more comic booky. Jesse was the ultimate man's man who talked to John Wayne (there's more to it) and tried to do what a man's got to do, Tulip was his bad rear end girl with a gun and Cassidy was a parasite that pretended to be your best mate but was just another junkie gently caress but there was something about him that you wanted to root for. You wanted him to be better. Some parts are very 90s and a bit edgelord but the core of the comic is decent and there are some moments that border on poignant. I would say borrow the trades from a mate and see how you feel.
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Oct 8, 2020 00:24
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jabby posted:I could believe that if he suffered any sort of negative consequence for his "outburst" or if Starlight didn't actively seek him out and ask to get back together with him afterwards. A fair criticism. quote:I don't think Ennis is big on moral lessons about toxic masculinity. This I disagree with though, Ennis is completely fascinated with toxic masculinity, it’s the recurring theme of the boys and comes up a lot in his preacher and punisher stuff too. The thing is he tries to have it both ways, he wants to write comics about extremely dumb manchild poo poo while also being somewhat self aware that it’s extremely dumb manchild poo poo. In a comic of exploding asses there are entire action-free issues where hughie dialogues about how he feels he can’t be an effective man if he has no taste for violence. butchers dying speech is a namecheck of the title about how men are just boys playing war etc etc
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Oct 8, 2020 00:31
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Also there aren’t that many fights in Preacher, but some of their long take brawls are seriously some of the coolest ballets of violence ever put to film. I can think of at least 2 that are on like Old Boy//The Raid//Daredevil Hallway level
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Oct 8, 2020 00:38
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scary ghost dog posted:the show was better Yeah it's really good.
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Oct 8, 2020 00:50
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Preacher the show was cool. I thought it was kind of uneven and the ending was lame, but it was entertaining enough to keep me watching. I've never read the comic but a lot of the things I've heard about it sound pretty stupid. Although a lot of the show was pretty stupid too and I still liked it overall. And yeah, Herr Starr ruled and was the best part. Joseph Gilgun is great too.
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Oct 8, 2020 00:58
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massive spider posted:This I disagree with though, Ennis is completely fascinated with toxic masculinity, it’s the recurring theme of the boys and comes up a lot in his preacher and punisher stuff too. The thing is he tries to have it both ways, he wants to write comics about extremely dumb manchild poo poo while also being somewhat self aware that it’s extremely dumb manchild poo poo. I can see where you're coming from (and I haven't read Preacher or Punisher), but I think The Boys delves deep into toxic masculinity while lacking the payoff to actually be considered criticising or satirising it. Butcher is toxic masculinity personified, but by and large his methods work and in the end he's the one who saves the day (from the supes, at least) and gets his revenge. He's also allowed to keep his 'normal guy' credibility in a crusade against superheroes while being so superhuman himself he can beat most of them to a pulp. So I agree the setup is there for some kind of lesson, it just... stops before the lesson part. You can't put in crap like Hughie's treatment of Starlight and then expect him to be a likeable character again, let alone ending up in a relationship with her without any meaningful contrition. It could've been a gritty scene exploring his character flaws like you describe, but his outburst would need to be toned way down in order to be forgivable and he'd need to learn some kind of lesson from it. As it stands I think it sends the complete opposite message, that the insane amount of abuse he lays on her is understandable and she shouldn't hold it against him. To tie this off-topic discussion back to the show, I think it's doing a great job of showcasing it's own lessons about masculinity and violence. You've got the abusive fathers, the protective older brothers, the cycle of violence etc. We often big up Starr's performance but Karl Urban is absolutely killing it as Butcher (despite the accent).
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Oct 8, 2020 01:00
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Bust Rodd posted:Also there aren’t that many fights in Preacher, but some of their long take brawls are seriously some of the coolest ballets of violence ever put to film. I can think of at least 2 that are on like Old Boy//The Raid//Daredevil Hallway level Oldboy / The Raid >>> Daredevil / Preacher, but yeah they're really good for TV
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Oct 8, 2020 01:03
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Karl Urban is a goddamn worldly treasure 
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Oct 8, 2020 01:03
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Johnny Truant posted:Karl Urban is a goddamn worldly treasure Yeah, he is. I never notice his kiwi accent springing up. I guess it’s real noticeable to other people though
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Oct 8, 2020 01:10
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I think the most horrifying cliffhanger would be storefront successfully, if not fully, indoctrinating Ryan. That's a primo parental fear in 2020.
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Oct 8, 2020 01:12
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sponges posted:Yeah, he is. Me either, but then again I'm a tin-eared American so I'm surprised they didn't just make his dad an Australian or New Zealander and then they could have sorta explained Butcher's accent. (Butcher's dad was supposed to be British, right? He did kinda sound sorta aussie to me...)
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Oct 8, 2020 01:21
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This is an official cross-promotion between The Boys and World of Tanks  What is going on. Why is that image so weirdly photoshopped!?
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Oct 8, 2020 01:32
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Zaphod42 posted:This is an official cross-promotion between The Boys and World of Tanks They should've sold it as a promotion between Vought and WoT.
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Oct 8, 2020 01:40
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Asgerd posted:Crossed is practically un-adaptable, since if you were to jettison the dumb edgelord poo poo there's literally nothing left. It's just a completely worthless premise. Crossed 100+ was pretty good, in a “horror story told to give apocalypse survivors nightmares” way. But it is absolutely unadaptable. Even the language is alien in that book. E: didn’t see there was a next page and that FilthyImp already summed it up. ruddiger fucked around with this message at 01:52 on Oct 8, 2020 |
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Oct 8, 2020 01:49
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I can get a starlight skin for my batchat? Time to reinstall!
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Oct 8, 2020 01:51
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Zaphod42 posted:This is an official cross-promotion between The Boys and World of Tanks Probably for the same reason the characters in The Avengers video game aren't picture perfect matches to the real world actors. By showing a *likeness* of Starlight, they aren't obligated in the slightest to give Erin Moriarty a single cent. Her 'commander' persona in game has no voice lines either, it uses standard audio files.
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Oct 8, 2020 01:51
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BIG HEADLINE posted:Probably for the same reason the characters in The Avengers video game aren't picture perfect matches to the real world actors. By showing a *likeness* of Starlight, they aren't obligated in the slightest to give Erin Moriarty a single cent. Her 'commander' persona in game has no voice lines either, it uses standard audio files. The promotion also expired on Sep 28, so no big black noir gunner for me
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Oct 8, 2020 01:54
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BIG HEADLINE posted:Probably for the same reason the characters in The Avengers video game aren't picture perfect matches to the real world actors. By showing a *likeness* of Starlight, they aren't obligated in the slightest to give Erin Moriarty a single cent. Her 'commander' persona in game has no voice lines either, it uses standard audio files. Uhhhhh 1. That is definitely her. They photoshopped her ontop of herself. So that doesn't work. 2. She's not in the game. All the game has are some tank skins with stars on them. (E: Actually it has the boys and some of the 7 as people in-game, apparently, but they're all male. There's no starlight. Lmao.) So, its definitely not that. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 01:59 on Oct 8, 2020 |
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Oct 8, 2020 01:57
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