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what the gently caress
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Oct 8, 2020 09:14
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Byzantine posted:what the gently caress Those Romans were crazy.
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Oct 8, 2020 09:23
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But Kanye isn't in the ...oh
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Oct 8, 2020 09:34
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MeinPanzer posted:As with so many aspects of 20th c. geopolitics, this really has to do primarily with the Cold War. During the civil war that followed WWII, Communist insurgents were particularly successful in the northern parts of Greece, the area the Greeks call Makedonia, which was home to many Slavic speakers. Greece has been since the early Medieval period inhabited by Slavs of various ethnic stripes, but once Greece became a battleground for the Communist-anti-Communist struggle, Greek Slavs were viewed as a fifth column for the Communist states to the north, while ethnic Greeks came to be viewed as the valiant warriors singlehandedly holding off the Red barbarians at the gates. Interesting, I've never heard this aspect of it before.
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Oct 8, 2020 11:19
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Grand Fromage posted:Closest I've seen to that is Tokyo. Get up to the observation deck at the government building in Shinjuku and look any direction, the only thing you'll see other than buildings are parks and the ocean. The ocean or the bay? The building seems further inland than I expected. Anyway Tokyo is nuts
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Oct 8, 2020 11:31
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I call shenanigans. No way Judea would vote for Biden
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Oct 8, 2020 12:49
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I don’t think Italy had 6x the population of Egypt
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Oct 8, 2020 13:01
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:I don’t think Italy had 6x the population of Egypt They have all the senators though.
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Oct 8, 2020 13:15
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Count Roland posted:Interesting, I've never heard this aspect of it before. The Greek civil war is pretty notable because it was right after WW2 (or well, started during WW2 because killing communists was more important than wrapping up the fight vs fascists lol), was dirty as hell geopolitics including Churchill and Stalin, and places "gently caress your parliament and your constitution", spoken by Johnson to the Greek ambassador some 20 years later into amazing context.
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Oct 8, 2020 13:21
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Pakled posted:This is an interesting map along the lines of what area is identified with each city. Finally a map where Montreal beats Toronto
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Oct 8, 2020 13:29
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Rebel Blob posted:There is "New York" and "New York City" as different areas, not to mention "Washington" and "Washington DC." Probably because the map was generated by user input but they didn't do the smart thing in cases like that and combine those answers. That wasn't a good decision.
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Oct 8, 2020 14:51
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Pakled posted:This is an interesting map along the lines of what area is identified with each city. I like how some of these are outside of their area; for example, the people of Green River, Utah, feel like their primate city is Grand Junction, but the people of Grand Junction feel like their primate city is Denver. As a resident of Cedar Rapids, I'm both offended and accepting of how eastern Iowa is mapped. That's another situation - Iowa City itself said Chicago, but the rural Iowa areas said Iowa City. And no one said Cedar Rapids. 
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Oct 8, 2020 15:05
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Pakled posted:This is an interesting map along the lines of what area is identified with each city.
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Oct 8, 2020 15:10
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I thought Eastern Romans were stereotypically effete pagans - seem like Biden voters to me!
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Oct 8, 2020 15:56
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Lord Hydronium posted:I'm the people in the northeastern tip of Minnesota who are part of the Detroit sphere of influence. Detroit going for a cultural victory I'm surprised too
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Oct 8, 2020 17:00
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That map would be more accurate if it had Biden winning all the places Romans actually lived like Syria and Italy and Asia and Trump winning all the low population backwaters like Britain and Noricum. I think some nerd just wanted to make the "Kanye Occidentalis" joke.
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Oct 8, 2020 17:13
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Phlegmish posted:Detroit going for a cultural victory They should probably not sell off their artworks then.
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Oct 8, 2020 17:15
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This made me wonder if there is any decent population density map of the roman empire, since Egypt seems to have a lot smaller representation than I would expect. Google doesn't return great results: 
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Oct 8, 2020 17:19
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Italy's electoral votes are nice.
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Oct 8, 2020 17:27
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Map of the Netherlands, with all places labeled with their first recorded name in history.
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Oct 8, 2020 17:57
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Carbon dioxide posted:Map of the Netherlands, with all places labeled with their first recorded name in history. Shouldn't Flevoland be called "Zuyder Zee"?
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Oct 8, 2020 18:10
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Shouldn't Flevoland be called "Zuyder Zee"? No. The Zuiderzee was formed in the 13th century. The area has always been swampy and in the year 43, the Roman geographer Pomponius Mela wrote about a "Lacus Flevo" or Lake Flevo, to which the Rhine flowed, and which surrounded an island with the same name, after which Lake Flevo narrows into a regular river that flows into the North Sea. The name Flevo is definitely older than Zuiderzee, which only formed after that unnamed river started widening a lot.
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Oct 8, 2020 18:14
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Average Lettuce posted:This made me wonder if there is any decent population density map of the roman empire, since Egypt seems to have a lot smaller representation than I would expect. Egypt isn't a part of rome but is an entity privately held by the augustus. They are lucky they even get 11.
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Oct 8, 2020 18:55
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Lord Hydronium posted:I'm the people in the northeastern tip of Minnesota who are part of the Detroit sphere of influence. They're not; that's Duluth, it just happens to be the same color as Detroit. Duluth's a major port and has its own culture/history distinct from the Twin Cities/almost all the rest of MN.
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Oct 8, 2020 19:31
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chairface posted:They're not; that's Duluth, it just happens to be the same color as Detroit. Duluth's a major port and has its own culture/history distinct from the Twin Cities/almost all the rest of MN. I think he means further northeast of Duluth where the blue is. Which is a reservation as far as I can tell, so maybe that's part of it. I imagine their sample size was like 1 or 2 people.
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Oct 8, 2020 19:42
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chairface posted:They're not; that's Duluth, it just happens to be the same color as Detroit. Duluth's a major port and has its own culture/history distinct from the Twin Cities/almost all the rest of MN.
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Oct 8, 2020 19:43
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Average Lettuce posted:This made me wonder if there is any decent population density map of the roman empire, since Egypt seems to have a lot smaller representation than I would expect. We actually have the some of the best demographic data for Italy and Egypt of any parts of the Roman Empire. Based on the census of 28 BC, reasonable estimates of Italy's population place it in the range of c. 7 million free inhabitants in the early Empire. Based on scattered data obtained from preserved administrative papyri, reasonable estimates of Egypt's population fall into the c. 4-5 million free inhabitants range for the same period. So, yeah, that map is definitely wrong -- unless you factor in that much of the province of Egypt beyond the Nile valley and delta wasn't actually inhabited, in which case the inhabited parts of Egypt were probably more densely populated than those of Italy. By the way, the best estimates put Rome into the c. 1 million inhabitants range, while Alexandria, the second largest city in the empire, had probably c. 400,000-600,000 inhabitants.
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Oct 8, 2020 19:43
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I didn't expect Italy to be bigger than Egypt. Although I should have given Egypt was famously feeding Italy during the height of the empire.
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Oct 8, 2020 19:48
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Count Roland posted:Interesting, I've never heard this aspect of it before. Orange Devil posted:The Greek civil war is pretty notable because it was right after WW2 (or well, started during WW2 because killing communists was more important than wrapping up the fight vs fascists lol), was dirty as hell geopolitics including Churchill and Stalin, and places "gently caress your parliament and your constitution", spoken by Johnson to the Greek ambassador some 20 years later into amazing context. Yeah, one aspect of the Greek civil war that doesn't get talked about much outside of academic circles is the ethnic cleansing carried out by anti-Communist forces in the north of Greece. Lots of Slavic speakers were forcibly expelled northward. Of course, the Greeks lamented the cruel Turkish expulsion of Greeks from Anatolia during the Population Exchange, but then turned around and did the same to the Slavic minority in Greece itself. The whole situation is ridiculous. The FYROM nationalists need to cut it out with their ridiculous projection of Slavic ethnic identity into antiquity, and the Greeks need to recognize that ethnonyms and toponyms do, in fact, shift in meaning over time, so that both Slavic speakers and Greeks can call themselves Macedonians.
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Oct 8, 2020 19:49
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:I didn't expect Italy to be bigger than Egypt. Although I should have given Egypt was famously feeding Italy during the height of the empire. In antiquity, the inhabited parts of Egypt really only comprised the Nile valley and delta plus the Fayoum and a few oases. Its soil was very fertile, but the total cultivable and inhabitable area within Egypt wasn't actually that large. Italy, on the other hand, has some very fertile land, but much more arable in general. Basically the two factors facilitating Roman military domination in the Mediterranean over the 3rd-1st c. BC were A) the Roman willingness to extend different forms of citizenship to subjugated peoples in Italy, and B) the massive amounts of manpower that granted its generals. For instance, the Roman citizen population probably grew from something on the order of 100,000 people c. 300 BC to well over 2 million by 200 BC through the extension of enfranchisement.
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Oct 8, 2020 19:57
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Have some crazy: 
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Oct 8, 2020 20:42
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MeinPanzer posted:Yeah, one aspect of the Greek civil war that doesn't get talked about much outside of academic circles is the ethnic cleansing carried out by anti-Communist forces in the north of Greece. Lots of Slavic speakers were forcibly expelled northward. Of course, the Greeks lamented the cruel Turkish expulsion of Greeks from Anatolia during the Population Exchange, but then turned around and did the same to the Slavic minority in Greece itself. I don't really get why the bold part matters. It would be like Italy telling America they have to change their name because Amerigo was Florentian
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Oct 8, 2020 21:37
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Starks posted:I don't really get why the bold part matters. It would be like Italy telling America they have to change their name because Amerigo was Florentian I'm not referring to the use of the name Macedonia -- that's fine. I'm referring to the FYROM nationalists who claim that the ancient Macedonians were Slavic-speaking peoples, and that Alexander the Great, for instance, was a Slav. This is patently untrue, because Slavic peoples didn't move into the Balkans until the 7th c. AD, almost a millennium after Alexander the Great lived, and well after ancient Macedonian ethnic identity had undergone a myriad transformations. This is why FYROM has become infamous for having so many statues of Alexander the Great and his father Philip II -- who, by the way, were born, raised, and lived most of their lives in the part of ancient Macedonia that was well removed from where FYROM is located today.
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Oct 8, 2020 21:45
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Starks posted:I don't really get why the bold part matters. It would be like Italy telling America they have to change their name because Amerigo was Florentian It’s like if a bunch of illiterate Frankish barbarians started calling themselves Roman.
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Oct 8, 2020 21:47
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Of course Alexander wasn't a Slavic speaker - as we all know, he was an Albanian.
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Oct 8, 2020 22:02
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poo poo I thought he was Korean.
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Oct 8, 2020 22:04
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MeinPanzer posted:I'm not referring to the use of the name Macedonia -- that's fine. I'm referring to the FYROM nationalists who claim that the ancient Macedonians were Slavic-speaking peoples, and that Alexander the Great, for instance, was a Slav. This is patently untrue, because Slavic peoples didn't move into the Balkans until the 7th c. AD, almost a millennium after Alexander the Great lived, and well after ancient Macedonian ethnic identity had undergone a myriad transformations. It just seems so trivial to me. Like saying that Columbus was Italian or that Mozart was Austrian. So they're bad at history! Ignore and move on as we say.
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Oct 8, 2020 22:05
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Radio Prune posted:Of course Alexander wasn't a Slavic speaker - as we all know, he was an Albanian. WrONG  actually he was a Finno-Ugric speaker, aka a true Aryan.quote:It just seems so trivial to me. Like saying that Columbus was Italian or that Mozart was Austrian. So they're bad at history! Ignore and move on as we say. It is trivial, like every nationalist dispute, and if the Greeks were reasonable they wouldn't care about it and everyone could move on. But they're not either, and FYROM nationalists continue to stir the pot every time they troll their neighbours to the south by erecting a massive statue of Alexander. It also does stand that the Greek historical interpretation of the dispute pertaining to antiquity is largely correct, while the FYROM interpretation is not.
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Oct 8, 2020 22:15
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An interesting slice of Arlington singled out, an area of higher development following one of DC's metro lines.
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Oct 8, 2020 22:47
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How are u posted:poo poo I thought he was Korean. Almost, just a few thousand years off  We also got this crazy map but it doesn't feature any claims on Greece, as I don't know any korean I can't tell you what this one says but when it was posted previously in this thread some crazy poo poo was revealed, I don't seem to remember what though. 
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Oct 9, 2020 00:14
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