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I recall Harry thinking he's gotten better at some finesse after training Molly for a year or two, but honestly I would really like to see him completely lean into the idea and focus on becoming more efficient. Every single book has Harry thinking he's no good at fine work and brings a sledgehammer to a scalpel fight, and it's starting to wear a little thin. Harry's still young for a wizard but on the other hand we see even younger wizards doing some cool poo poo in this book. It'd be a nice change of pace if Harry's next power up comes from learning to do more with what he has. Though I do appreciate how the power creep has been relatively in check. It was pretty badass for him to blow a Loup Garou through a couple of walls and blow the loving tires off of a truck back in Fool Moon; and while he can do more now, he's not clowning demigods around or anything like some other series, even after nearly 20 books. I know a huge part of the trope is that Harry solves problems through brute force while everyone else uses magic as a fulcrum to move heaven and earth, but it's time to change gears. The Winter Knight mantle was a good shift but we've been in that groove a bit too long now I think.
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Oct 9, 2020 04:22
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I think I’d like to get some short stories about Mab’s beginnings.
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Oct 9, 2020 04:58
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Mortanis posted:I recall Harry thinking he's gotten better at some finesse after training Molly for a year or two, but honestly I would really like to see him completely lean into the idea and focus on becoming more efficient. Every single book has Harry thinking he's no good at fine work and brings a sledgehammer to a scalpel fight, and it's starting to wear a little thin. Harry's still young for a wizard but on the other hand we see even younger wizards doing some cool poo poo in this book. It'd be a nice change of pace if Harry's next power up comes from learning to do more with what he has. I'd like to see that as well, but magic in the Dresdenverse seems to spring out of personality and emotion. So before we see Harry use magic with finesse, I'd like to see him use non-magic with finesse. Like Harry gets word that some asshat has brought in some crazy-rear end Devil's Rejects-style diamond-eating motorcycle gang to go after Harry. They show up and Harry reaches into his pocket and pulls out a bag of Winter diamonds, then tosses it to them and says "You get these and two more bags like them if you go after the asshat instead of me." They do and Harry walks off to have ice cream with Maggie and Mouse. Set the stage for Harry using magic with greater control by showing him adapting something of a "work smarter, not harder" approach in the rest of his life. Read T. H. White's [i]The Once and Future King]/i]. It's probably going to give you a better concept of her "backstory" than anything Butcher could throw together. Everyone fucked around with this message at 08:36 on Oct 9, 2020 |
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Oct 9, 2020 08:33
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He's exactly as strong as the plot needs him to be so that he can be the only person capable of defeating the godtier monster in the third act while simultaneously getting almost killed by a couple mooks halfway through the book. I find the rubber band power scaling becomes especially apparent when you compare his power level to that of his fellow wizards.
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Oct 9, 2020 15:47
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Wizards being able to be ganked by normal mooks is well established in the series. Look at the murder from Turn Coat--done with a blade rather than magic.
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Oct 9, 2020 16:52
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The man with the nuclear bomb in the sidecar is still just a mortal man. Wizards use the tools rather than being intrinsically strong like the minor divinities around.
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Oct 9, 2020 17:50
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For that matter the last summer knight got killed by being pushed down some stairs.
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Oct 9, 2020 18:38
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With Lara Raith's scheduled marriage to Dresden I decided to reread the much avoided Blood Rites where she first appears and was surprised to be reminded that she's been briefly married before (to someone with the surname Romany), not something I would associate with the White Court. I wonder if Butcher remembers that he put that in there and whether we'll ever see it mentioned again.
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Oct 9, 2020 20:10
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Subvisual Haze posted:He's exactly as strong as the plot needs him to be so that he can be the only person capable of defeating the godtier monster in the third act while simultaneously getting almost killed by a couple mooks halfway through the book. I find the rubber band power scaling becomes especially apparent when you compare his power level to that of his fellow wizards. Wizards are still basically human. Sure if Harry has a fully charged shield bracelet, prepared wizard's staff, fully enchanted trenchcoat, etc., he can go toe to toe with literal gods. But all that stuff requires time and energy so it can't be "always on." Which means that if he's caught flat-footed, any goober with a shotgun can blow Harry's head off. Regarding Battle Ground and Harry's betrothal to Lara, one thing I noted was that Lara wasn't exactly thrilled at the idea either. Really, I think on some level Mab kind of looks at Harry a bit like he's her personal RPG character. Like, "Hmm, well, his magic capacity is coming along nicely, but he really needs to boost his Subtle Manipulation skill. Oh... I know, I'll have him marry Lara Raith. That should provide him with extensive training and enough XP to buy that to a higher level...".
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Oct 9, 2020 22:19
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Everyone posted:I'd like to see that as well, but magic in the Dresdenverse seems to spring out of personality and emotion. So before we see Harry use magic with finesse, I'd like to see him use non-magic with finesse. Like Harry gets word that some asshat has brought in some crazy-rear end Devil's Rejects-style diamond-eating motorcycle gang to go after Harry. They show up and Harry reaches into his pocket and pulls out a bag of Winter diamonds, then tosses it to them and says "You get these and two more bags like them if you go after the asshat instead of me." They do and Harry walks off to have ice cream with Maggie and Mouse. Honestly unless it changed a lot in the last too books it would be nice if there was any rhyme or reason to Harry deciding to be a snarky rear end in a top hat vs actually talking and showing empathy to people around him. Snarky rear end in a top hat isn't bad when it is to a big bad guy but it rings really weird and false when he's treating people who are otherwise cool or friendly to him like his enemies (while then treating his enemies with respect??)
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Oct 9, 2020 22:28
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Murphy is dead! Hell yeah! There better not be some shifty poo poo going on to "fix" this.
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Oct 10, 2020 00:17
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Everyone posted:Wizards are still basically human. Sure if Harry has a fully charged shield bracelet, prepared wizard's staff, fully enchanted trenchcoat, etc., he can go toe to toe with literal gods. But all that stuff requires time and energy so it can't be "always on." Which means that if he's caught flat-footed, any goober with a shotgun can blow Harry's head off. Sure, indeed the story more or less tells us this every book, it just comes across to me as clunky in presentation. The Harry Dresden we have at this moment feels almost identical to the Harry Dresden we had back in Dead Beat with regards to how he interacts with the world despite multiple dramatic "power ups" since then. I think this a result of the series length, it's probably impossible to find a better solution to the power creep problem when you want your series to run 20+ stand alone books.
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Oct 10, 2020 00:28
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Everyone posted:Wizards are still basically human. Sure if Harry has a fully charged shield bracelet, prepared wizard's staff, fully enchanted trenchcoat, etc., he can go toe to toe with literal gods. But all that stuff requires time and energy so it can't be "always on." Which means that if he's caught flat-footed, any goober with a shotgun can blow Harry's head off. Yeah I think things are set up more in a "How do we get out of this?" vs a "Harry marries sexy vampire kind of sister yay!" where the extra time is for Harry to figure out how to get out of it. Then Mab will probably give him a talk about how that was her plan all along or something.
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Oct 10, 2020 01:09
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It's Mab giving her Winter Knight a crash course in politics. She's fine if Harry and Lara find a graceful, diplomatic way to part ways, and she's fine if they learn to make a useful alliance work long-term. There's extremely low odds of them actually, properly falling in love with each other, but that's hardly necessary for a political marriage.
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Oct 10, 2020 01:30
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Subvisual Haze posted:Sure, indeed the story more or less tells us this every book, it just comes across to me as clunky in presentation. The Harry Dresden we have at this moment feels almost identical to the Harry Dresden we had back in Dead Beat with regards to how he interacts with the world despite multiple dramatic "power ups" since then. I think this a result of the series length, it's probably impossible to find a better solution to the power creep problem when you want your series to run 20+ stand alone books. I think I'm kind of okay with the idea that however super-magic-badass Harry gets, he's still in mortal peril from a hidden dude with a scoped rifle. Think Tony Stark as Iron Man from the MCU. Over something like ten years we see the Iron Man armor get more and more powerful, adding greater and more versatile capabilities to the point that it lets Tony take on some of the most dangerous beings in the universe. But Tony Stark is still human Tony Stark. And if somebody shoots him in the face while he's not wearing the super-god-iron-armor, it'll kill his rear end just like it would anyone else.
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Oct 10, 2020 02:20
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jivjov posted:Wizards being able to be ganked by normal mooks is well established in the series. Look at the murder from Turn Coat--done with a blade rather than magic. I agree with your overall point, but the TC murder is done with a blade because both parties are being influenced or outright controlled by Peabody, and since they don't truly want to hurt each other they cannot do so with magic.
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Oct 10, 2020 04:25
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Drone Jett posted:With Lara Raith's scheduled marriage to Dresden I decided to reread the much avoided Blood Rites where she first appears and was surprised to be reminded that she's been briefly married before (to someone with the surname Romany), not something I would associate with the White Court. I wonder if Butcher remembers that he put that in there and whether we'll ever see it mentioned again. How is that guy not deader than disco?
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Oct 10, 2020 04:49
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I am rereading the first Dresden short story book and reading Backup, I have no idea what the hell Thomas thought he was achieving by pretending to be a cheesy villain at the end instead of just slipping away quietly.
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Oct 10, 2020 06:50
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Beachcomber posted:I am rereading the first Dresden short story book and reading Backup, I have no idea what the hell Thomas thought he was achieving by pretending to be a cheesy villain at the end instead of just slipping away quietly. Well, remember that Thomas is Harry's (half) brother. So, it's within his DNA to do stupid poo poo too.
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Oct 10, 2020 19:31
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bozhe moi
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Oct 10, 2020 19:41
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Beachcomber posted:I am rereading the first Dresden short story book and reading Backup, I have no idea what the hell Thomas thought he was achieving by pretending to be a cheesy villain at the end instead of just slipping away quietly. He wanted Harry to think the entire thing was a stupid plot by a lame sorcerer so he would write it off instead of investigating and maybe discovering the secret war thing.
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Oct 10, 2020 19:47
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ImpAtom posted:He wanted Harry to think the entire thing was a stupid plot by a lame sorcerer so he would write it off instead of investigating and maybe discovering the secret war thing. Thanks! I still think it was kind of a ridiculo... Everyone posted:Well, remember that Thomas is Harry's (half) brother. So, it's within his DNA to do stupid poo poo too. 
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Oct 11, 2020 14:20
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Recently began rereading Daniel Faust to catch up with it and I forgot how dense they are. I remembered the events of the first book being the first 3 books or so.
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Oct 11, 2020 17:09
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Is it just me or did Rudolph get more descriptions of his attractiveness than anybody else in Battle Ground? It happened at least 3 times. It wasn't as much of the 'she sexily sexed across the floor, sexily' but all of the other random descriptions I can recall of Mab/Molly/etc were pretty normal vs "RUDOLPH IS HOT, and here's what happened next."
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Oct 11, 2020 17:46
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Hypnolobster posted:Is it just me or did Rudolph get more descriptions of his attractiveness than anybody else in Battle Ground? It happened at least 3 times. It wasn't as much of the 'she sexily sexed across the floor, sexily' but all of the other random descriptions I can recall of Mab/Molly/etc were pretty normal vs "RUDOLPH IS HOT, and here's what happened next." My own take is that Rudolph is able to project a handsome, sharp-dressed image because he has the income and time to do it. Because he's not a real "front-line" cop. He's an REMF (rear end mother-fucker) who doesn't do real cop work. Of course, given the real-life history of corruption with the CPD which is apparently legendary in that city, actual, honest Internal Affairs are desperately needed but hopelessly outnumbered. Butcher could have made Rudolph an "Inspector Javert" figure who thinks Murphy's dirty because of all the (Dresden-related) weird stuff that happens around her. He could have made him a Mortal/Cop version of Warden Morgan - someone who persecutes Murphy because he honestly believes that she deserves that persecution. Instead Rudolph is presented as a petty, ambitious "pretty boy" who makes life hard for "real cops" by going after them instead of letting them go after the "real" criminals. It's a bit lazy, but not that surprising. Meanwhile, the emphasis on Rudolph being attractive could easily be foreshadowing that he'll be maimed or scarred in some way that makes me be Dresden's enemy after he gets some evil power boost. Mr. Butcher does like shadow the fore quite a bit.
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Oct 11, 2020 18:36
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I thought Rudolph was such a jerk, especially towards Dresden/Murph, because he got so freaked out by the Loup-Garaou that he has to deny it happened and so he must prove them to be fakes to maintain his sanity.
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Oct 11, 2020 22:34
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Darkrenown posted:I thought Rudolph was such a jerk, especially towards Dresden/Murph, because he got so freaked out by the Loup-Garaou that he has to deny it happened and so he must prove them to be fakes to maintain his sanity. That's probably where it all started but I think the rest of my characterization of Rudolph holds water.
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Oct 12, 2020 00:08
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I reread the first Alex Verus book recently, and something really obvious jumped out at me- I enjoy those books but the light/dark thing and the absurd, almost cartoonish levels of corruption and evil in both organizations always bugged me... and it occurred to me that the setting would work way, way better if instead of Light, Dark, and Unaffiliated, it was just Light and Everyone Else. Like, the light council formalized everything during their monster-hunting days, then monsters died back and poo poo got petty and political, and over time they just started habitually demonizing everyone who didn't agree to come under their umbrella because let's be fair, a lot of mages are humongous jerks. Then instead of Verus's origin story being the light council going "Lol, go back to your apprentice cage before someone sees you" it's straight-up just him going for help, refusing to join the light mages for protection because he's an anti-authoritarian weirdo, and blaming them for not helping him anyway. I dunno- maybe I'm putting too much thought into pulpy urban fantasy schlock, but the existence, branding, and behavior of the dark mages has always been one of the few things really keeping me from fulling digging the Verus stuff.
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Oct 13, 2020 04:08
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It works, I think, if you accept the premise that ethical flexibility and nonchalance about breaking the rules is the route to a lot of magical power fast. Dark mages are able to get very quickly to the point where it’s not worth risking lives to take them out. The unaffiliated aren’t similarly powerful so they just keep their heads down. Everyone else is part of respectable, political light mage society.
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Oct 13, 2020 08:44
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Finished Battle Grounds. Well, hm. Better than Peace Talks. Low bar there, but it still cleared it. A lot of the issues I had with the flow of it were fixed when someone pointed out that there was a pretty clear theme of plans not going the way they should. It doesn't fix everything but it does make things like The Spear of Destiny does fuckall a little more palatable. There's been some debate back and forth in how Murphy was handled and I've got to say I'm annoyed as hell about it because I like the character. The way it was handled, I don't think it was a fridging but I also don't really care. I like Murphy as the human friend who can surprise you in a pinch. I get that she wasn't what she used to be, but I never really wanted her to be a Knight, or an Einherjar or whatever. I just wanted Murphy to stay Murphy. I guess that goes against her character, but still. Bah. Here's to not waiting another 6 years for what comes next.
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Oct 13, 2020 17:48
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Shinjobi posted:Finished Battle Grounds. Well, hm. About The Spear of Destiny my take on it with the thrum-Thrum-THRUM was that it was the thing that was actually giving Dresden the power/will boost he needed to actual bind the titan - and even then it was a near thing. Shinjobi posted:There's been some debate back and forth in how Murphy was handled and I've got to say I'm annoyed as hell about it because I like the character. The way it was handled, I don't think it was a fridging but I also don't really care. I like Murphy as the human friend who can surprise you in a pinch. I get that she wasn't what she used to be, but I never really wanted her to be a Knight, or an Einherjar or whatever. I just wanted Murphy to stay Murphy. I guess that goes against her character, but still. Bah. I think it's pretty clear that we're going to see Murphy again. I don't think she'll have superpowers as such, but she'll be healed of her various injuries and maybe de/un aged in some way that she'll be a combat asset with Dresden but still pretty much human.
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Oct 13, 2020 19:54
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I might be wrong, but isn’t the benefit of being an Einherjar more the years of experience and no aging rather than any other inherit magical power? They died relatively easily in Battle Ground. Valkyries appear to do more, but I don’t know if Murphy could be one or not.
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Oct 13, 2020 20:19
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Darkrenown posted:I thought Rudolph was such a jerk, especially towards Dresden/Murph, because he got so freaked out by the Loup-Garaou that he has to deny it happened and so he must prove them to be fakes to maintain his sanity. I like the theory I saw elsewhere that pointed out that Rudolph was one of the cops who went after Kravos in Grave Peril, so it's entirely possible Kravos went after him offscreen just like he did Malone and Murphy onscreen (if maybe not as hard as those two cases). That kind of psychological wound, particularly without any help, could easily have pushed him from an inexperienced but not horribly bad cop (he outright threatened Harry if Murphy got hurt from what happened in Grave Peril) to what he turned into, even more so than just the Loup-Garou. And considering what Mirror Mirror is supposed to involve, one of the possibilities of Harry interacting with an alternate timeline is meeting a Rudolph who did NOT kill Murphy. Having to deal with the mirror version of the guy who killed the woman he loved (especially if the alternate outright stayed with the good guys) could be a hell of a thing for Harry to handle, and would definitely fit the series theme of "there but for the grace of God go I" when it comes to human evil when it shows how much somebody could be different from just a few choices. Could be especially interesting if the difference is because of something alternate-Harry did and Dresden has to face the fact he could have done something that prevented what happened to Murphy.
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Oct 13, 2020 22:57
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Just finished A Killing Frost and I still have so many questions about Marcia as well as Stacy and her kids. I’m pretty sure the vagueness and dropped questioning has to do with more magical bullshit and not just bad writing but I really want to know!
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Oct 13, 2020 23:21
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I liked the Xmas story. I liked the marriage proposal. I got sick of the action pretty quickly. I think these two books would have been better if they had the plotting mixed up so things were more balanced. This book was just kinda exhausting.
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Oct 13, 2020 23:49
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DreamingofRoses posted:Just finished A Killing Frost and I still have so many questions about Marcia as well as Stacy and her kids. I’m pretty sure the vagueness and dropped questioning has to do with more magical bullshit and not just bad writing but I really want to know! There is 100% something serious going on with Marcia. She couldn't be controlled by Eira/wasn't knocked into the water with all of Dean's court in Winter's Long. She also in Unkindest Tide she entered the duchy of ships no problem even though it messed with Toby. I've seen a few folks speculate that she is Mauve or Titania in hiding.
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Oct 14, 2020 07:57
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Re: A Killing Frost: I hadn't really thought about that specifically for Marcia but it makes sense, the books definitely have a running pattern of individuals much more important than they appear hiding in plain sight. Especially now that we've found that Oberon was right there the whole time, I fully expect both Maeve and Titania to be characters we've already seen in the books - I'm just not sure who they might be. Marcia is as good a candidate as any, though aside from what was mentioned I don't recall anything that would mark her specifically as one of the two. Also now that Oberon has been found I'm not entirely sure where the rest of the series is going, as I always figured that finding Oberon would be the big endgame for the series and yet here we are. Has Seanen McGuire hinted at how much longer the series may go before? Hopefully it'll still be at least a few more books, October Daye has definitely become my favorite current urban fantasy series. Re: Battle Ground: Only about halfway through so far, but definitely concur the writing has picked up a lot from Peace Talks though that could be more from the book being entirely Butcher in his element than actually improving between books. I did enjoy Butcher throwing shade at Anish Kapoor when mentioning the bean and how everyone just calls it the bean, because seriously gently caress that guy. Of course then Butcher goes and writes out an ode to police officers being a light in the darkness of a riot or whatever that poo poo was...
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Oct 14, 2020 23:05
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fralbjabar posted:Re: A Killing Frost: October Daye is pretty much my favorite urban fantasy series right now too. Seanan said 31 on twitter as a joke. Get it? 31 October Dayes? ba dum tish. I think end game is reopening fairy? or finding all the big 3? Because Amandine's bloodline is supposed to bring back the big 3 and heal faire. Toby keeps overthrowing traditionalist kings and queens. So it would fit if she's just supposed to keep doing that. Also maybe find a way to stop Eyra for good? Also, Marcia might just be a merlin? There is a lot of talk about how merlins are oddly powerful. So she could be claiming she has more fae in her than she does to stay safe.
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Oct 15, 2020 01:32
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KellHound posted:There is 100% something serious going on with Marcia. She couldn't be controlled by Eira/wasn't knocked into the water with all of Dean's court in Winter's Long. She also in Unkindest Tide she entered the duchy of ships no problem even though it messed with Toby. I've seen a few folks speculate that she is Mauve or Titania in hiding. I’m going with Maeve, because she’s waaaay too nice for Titania. But I’m now super curious about Stacey’s kids after this past book because October was going along a very concerning “this doesn’t make sense” line and then it just completely slips away! Thats also adding that between the return of the Roan and Karen and Cassandra we’re getting a big ole return of future tellers/seers to Faerie. The Simon Torquill wrapup for this book is pretty sweet too.
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Oct 15, 2020 01:55
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Got a long drive ahead of me tomorrow (by my standards anyway, 2 hours) so I picked up the 1st Verus book in audiobook format based on reading about it here. So far it seems interesting, lol at the Dresden callout. I keep getting the universes and books people talk about in the threads mixed up so I am not sure if the Verus books are sex heavy or not, might be thinking of another series. I am not getting that impression so far anyway, hope it stays that way.
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Oct 15, 2020 06:19
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