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IIRC, the original writer's guide for the original series basically said that it's far enough in the future that the socio-economic issues of the Cold War are no longer even relevant - which makes sense to me. Picard in First Contact simply saying that 'the economics of the future are somewhat different' and not elaborating seems like the best way of handling it on-screen.
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Oct 12, 2020 12:46
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Angry Salami posted:IIRC, the original writer's guide for the original series basically said that it's far enough in the future that the socio-economic issues of the Cold War are no longer even relevant - which makes sense to me. Picard in First Contact simply saying that 'the economics of the future are somewhat different' and not elaborating seems like the best way of handling it on-screen. Yeah for the purpose of storytelling I'm happy to accept Star Trek's take of "WW3 broke the world, and First Contact pulled it back together. The humans you see in these stories have grown up in such a fundamentally different world to the one you live in that the way their society is structured isn't going to entirely make sense to you".
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Oct 12, 2020 12:58
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If there's anything that 2020 taught me it is that a global event does gently caress all to bring everyone together. I would expect the arrival of aliens to CAUSE WW3, not start the healing process.
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Oct 12, 2020 13:34
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Angry Salami posted:IIRC, the original writer's guide for the original series basically said that it's far enough in the future that the socio-economic issues of the Cold War are no longer even relevant - which makes sense to me. Picard in First Contact simply saying that 'the economics of the future are somewhat different' and not elaborating seems like the best way of handling it on-screen. The problem is as an actual 20th century political statement about humanity and it's future and so on it's a clear evasion to avoid having to take a stance on the political and economic disputes of its era. As Ursula le Guin said - science ficiton isn't predictive, it's descriptive, but Star Trek ducks describing the society of it's own protagonists also completely outside of the vaguest generalities about being 'more evolved' now. It's got plenty of time for pointing out the failings of everyone else's civilisations though ...
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Oct 12, 2020 13:58
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I don’t think it was ever necessary to describe that in detail. It’s a post-scarcity society and we see that it is probably a result of things like replicators making it so no one will starve
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Oct 12, 2020 14:37
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FlamingLiberal posted:I don’t think it was ever necessary to describe that in detail. It’s a post-scarcity society and we see that it is probably a result of things like replicators making it so no one will starve Not to be trite, but we already live in a materialistic 'post-scarcity' society producing a tremendous surplus of food and yet people still starve, replicators and comically huge and easy to produce supplies of energy to run them could easily coexist with, like, Apple and Google charging access for use because they exist in a society which still operates on the basis of private property. It still doesn't answer the question of what is different between now and then, other than that future humans are much smugger and have better vibes that us.
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Oct 12, 2020 14:58
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The Federation is post-scarcity to a point. Their technology is advanced but it isn't magic. They are regularly shown to be limited in the amount of material or energy that they can apply to a specific problem in a specific location. The main difference between now and the Federation is that everyone (who isn't for whatever reason interested in living on a far flung colony that hasn't been brought up to the level of having local mass industrial replication and solar-orbiting antimatter factories) is provided with such a high basic standard of living (food, housing, medical care, education, material wealth) that they can afford to focus their time and energy on whatever they want to do. Sisko's dad can own a resturant because it's his passion in life and he is free to pursue that. It works out because there are relativly few people (even now) who want to run a resturant in New Orleans.
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Oct 12, 2020 15:00
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There's basically two options: intentionally leave it vague, or dive deep and spend ages working out how things would work. Trying to half-rear end it would just end up with a mess that falls apart when you examine it. Trek's interests lie elsewhere, so leaving it vague is probably the better call.
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Oct 12, 2020 15:08
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I mean, we talk about Trek being post scarcity, but that's always been sideway speak for the obvious. Trek is post capitalism and the reason isn't because they have no scarcity. Sure, technology has made it to a point where scarcity isn't too big of a hurdle, but we are arguably at that point today. Trek is post capitalism because capitalism isn't capable of bringing about a society depicted in Trek.
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Oct 12, 2020 15:16
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MikeJF posted:There's basically two options: intentionally leave it vague, or dive deep and spend ages working out how things would work. Trying to half-rear end it would just end up with a mess that falls apart when you examine it. Trek's interests lie elsewhere, so leaving it vague is probably the better call. But to bring it back to the original point, that is why there is so much ideological crossover in Star Trek fandom. The Left get the show about scientist-explorers solving present day social and ethical issues under a thin subtext of aliens and claim the hazily explained background society is a socialist utopia and the Right get to watch the cool shapeship piloted by the elite military crew get into conflicts and cool space battles with the inferior and often degenerate alien civilisations of the show and both sides get to ignore any implications they don't like.
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Oct 12, 2020 15:19
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MikeJF posted:There's basically two options: intentionally leave it vague, or dive deep and spend ages working out how things would work. Trying to half-rear end it would just end up with a mess that falls apart when you examine it. Trek's interests lie elsewhere, so leaving it vague is probably the better call. I don’t get the impression that the show bibles for either TNG or DS9 ever really go into much detail about this topic, because in the end it is not really the point Like we never get a firm grasp on how the Federation actually works as a government. We are told there is a President and the Federation Council and that is about it. It has never really been fleshed out because it’s not needed.
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Oct 12, 2020 15:25
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How come Data inhales so sharply to talk so often. Does he actually expel air to speak or is he just mimicking it from people and has like a speaker in his throat
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Oct 12, 2020 22:24
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Dr. Soong probably dissected a dozen Omicron Theta colonists so he could get vocal cords just right.
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Oct 12, 2020 23:09
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multijoe posted:Not to be trite, but we already live in a materialistic 'post-scarcity' society producing a tremendous surplus of food and yet people still starve, replicators and comically huge and easy to produce supplies of energy to run them could easily coexist with, like, Apple and Google charging access for use because they exist in a society which still operates on the basis of private property. It still doesn't answer the question of what is different between now and then, other than that future humans are much smugger and have better vibes that us. Infrastructure is also important for resource distribution. Replicators, teleporters and basically free energy bypasses all of the infrastructure problems too.
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Oct 12, 2020 23:30
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Unmature posted:How come Data inhales so sharply to talk so often. Does he actually expel air to speak or is he just mimicking it from people and has like a speaker in his throat Data's body is designed to be analogous to a human's. He has structures like lungs, he "breathes" to cool his internal components, and uses that breath to make speech by passing that expelled air over vibrating fibers. He has a pulse, and his skin is warm to the touch. He can simulate eating and defecation, although he only needs to ingest a silicone lubricant occasionally for his internal workings. His hair grows if he wants it to. He has functional genitalia. All of this is supported by in show direct statement or strong implication.
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Oct 13, 2020 03:06
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A.o.D. posted:Data's body is designed to be analogous to a human's. He has structures like lungs, he "breathes" to cool his internal components, and uses that breath to make speech by passing that expelled air over vibrating fibers. He has a pulse, and his skin is warm to the touch. He can simulate eating and defecation, although he only needs to ingest a silicone lubricant occasionally for his internal workings. His hair grows if he wants it to. He has functional genitalia. All of this is supported by in show direct statement or strong implication. Please cite the defecation episode
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Oct 13, 2020 03:17
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Unmature posted:Please cite the defecation episode Do you think that was mud in those baths in The Cost of Living
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Oct 13, 2020 03:20
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Unmature posted:Please cite the defecation episode
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Oct 13, 2020 03:20
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curiousTerminal posted:Federation Economics basically seems like the furthest conclusion of UBI: Everyone gets food, shelter, education, medicine, and seemingly a stipend. If you want anything beyond that you get a job or sell your poo poo on Federation Etsy and that pays for all your weird hobbies and artisan goods and ancient artifacts that should be in museums, picard. This post I made from a while back is how I've always seen it. Sure you can get by with a studio apartment and a replicator in the city of your choice, but that's not particularly fulfilling. Seems to me it's mostly "the required facets of life are given to all people, you can get a job if you want structure or more income" and then the aforementioned Federation Etsy. There's still money but it's not tied to power or social status in any conceivable way within the Federation itself, so it feels to us, as chest deep in late capitalism that we are, completely unexplainable. The intentional vagueness is a good thing, also, because it prevents the "universal translator literally could not possibly work the way it's been explained to" problem.
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Oct 13, 2020 03:23
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Do they ever reference if comic books still exist like how books are still around
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Oct 13, 2020 03:36
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Quick memory alpha search: they have holocomic books.
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Oct 13, 2020 03:41
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Unmature posted:Please cite the defecation episode He's fully functional for sex ("The Naked Now", First Contact) so this likely extends to scatplay
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Oct 13, 2020 03:43
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Drink-Mix Man posted:He's fully functional for sex ("The Naked Now", First Contact) so this likely extends to scatplay One of the lowkey funniest parts of First Contact is when Data tells the Borg Queen how long it's been since he's had sex down to the second and she just goes "Shut up, nerd." and bangs the poo poo out of him.
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Oct 13, 2020 03:52
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curiousTerminal posted:The intentional vagueness is a good thing, also, because it prevents the "universal translator literally could not possibly work the way it's been explained to" problem. Recent Trek like Beyond and Discovery have shown the universal translator working in a way that makes sense which is neat but also clearly something you could never portray it as full time
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Oct 13, 2020 04:17
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I know that supposedly TV is dead in the future of Star Trek, which seems like a profound misreading of humanity as well as being a depressing self-deprecation. No trashy relaxing hobbies or pastimes in the future! Only "bettering yourself" so people have to do something intellectual-ish, like painting or playing an instrument! Maybe occasionally read a book, but nobody is gonna passively consume media! Like sure, there's some hopefulness about what humanity could be, but there's also weird pretentiousness about calling out some okay aspects of humanity as the horrible scum we must overcome just to seem fancier.
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Oct 13, 2020 06:19
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SlothfulCobra posted:I know that supposedly TV is dead in the future of Star Trek, which seems like a profound misreading of humanity as well as being a depressing self-deprecation. holodecks?
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Oct 13, 2020 06:21
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SlothfulCobra posted:I know that supposedly TV is dead in the future of Star Trek, which seems like a profound misreading of humanity as well as being a depressing self-deprecation. They talk about holo-novels all the time which I assume is 3d tv you can interact with if you choose.
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Oct 13, 2020 06:42
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In How Much For Just the Planet? there’s a Klingon obsessed with old Earth movies who constantly quotes stuff like Casablanca and The Maltese Falcon
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Oct 13, 2020 06:43
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gently caress TNG's second season finally was a clip show, well that's just lame. Now that season 2 is done onto the goodness of season 3. Over the years I have read a lot of hate for Dr. Pulaski but I think the character is fine in of her self but she just did not work in TNG's cast. She is clearly an attempt and Bones 2.0, the writers even try to put her in conflicts with the captain and that was interesting when the captain is driven by pure ID the way Kirk was but Picard so much more restrained and easily reasoned with. In a way Pulaski is an avatar of the flaws of early TNG she's an attempt at recreating something from TOS without an understanding of TNG's strengths. side_burned fucked around with this message at 06:51 on Oct 13, 2020 |
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Oct 13, 2020 06:48
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I think Pulaski would improve 300% if she was just a little less racist against Data
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Oct 13, 2020 06:55
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SlothfulCobra posted:I know that supposedly TV is dead in the future of Star Trek, which seems like a profound misreading of humanity as well as being a depressing self-deprecation. I wouldn't go that far. I can easily imagine by the time I'm in a nursing home that we would describe Radio as dead, but that doesn't mean that people won't listen to music anymore in the same way that serialized dramas moved from radio to TV and entertainment as a whole is now moving into a more fractured structure on the internet. Tell someone from the 40s that nobody listens to the radio anymore and they're going to wonder what we do with our downtime because they can't imagine shitposting on forums or watching Twitch on your second monitor while you play Euro Truck Simulator.
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Oct 13, 2020 06:58
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Pulaski's problem is that she's clearly there to build conflict, but nobody actually responds to her. Bones and Spock actually argue with each other, but when Pulaski's an rear end, Data just looks sad and Picard frowns a bit.
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Oct 13, 2020 07:37
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It's a little depressing to realise that the canonical implications of Data's design are that he's the most advanced Sex Doll ever created. e: also Picard's backstory is that in his youth he was basically Space Indiana Jones, they should do a show on that.
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Oct 13, 2020 11:42
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socialsecurity posted:They talk about holo-novels all the time which I assume is 3d tv you can interact with if you choose. When they go back to the 90's in Voyager, Kneelix is watching a bunch of soap operas while Kim is all "Ugh it's so boring , you can't even interact with it  " so it's just seems like they can't fathom enjoying something you can't interact with.
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Oct 13, 2020 11:43
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Alchenar posted:It's a little depressing to realise that the canonical implications of Data's design are that he's the most advanced Sex Doll ever created. And then a few years later the holodeck is invented and Dr Soong just realises he wasted his life.
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Oct 13, 2020 11:47
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Eighties ZomCom posted:When they go back to the 90's in Voyager, Kneelix is watching a bunch of soap operas while Kim is all "Ugh it's so boring , you can't even interact with it Meanwhile, books. Unless they count turning pages as interactivity.
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Oct 13, 2020 11:57
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MikeJF posted:And then a few years later the holodeck is invented and Dr Soong just realises he wasted his life. Not quite. His life wasn't truly wasted until the invention of the mobile emitter
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Oct 13, 2020 12:00
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side_burned posted:Over the years I have read a lot of hate for Dr. Pulaski but I think the character is fine in of her self but she just did not work in TNG's cast. She is clearly an attempt and Bones 2.0, the writers even try to put her in conflicts with the captain and that was interesting when the captain is driven by pure ID the way Kirk was but Picard so much more restrained and easily reasoned with. In a way Pulaski is an avatar of the flaws of early TNG she's an attempt at recreating something from TOS without an understanding of TNG's strengths. The most groan-inducing thing was when they even had her be reluctant to use the transporter. Like she doesn't have to literally have every one of McCoy's character traits, come on. Maybe one of the writers was trying to plant a seed of her secretly being McCoy's child, I dunno.
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Oct 13, 2020 12:51
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On the subject of Pulaski, why was Gates McFadden taken off the show during the second season? I think I read the story behind that once but I've forgotten.
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Oct 13, 2020 13:07
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Gordon Shumway posted:On the subject of Pulaski, why was Gates McFadden taken off the show during the second season? I think I read the story behind that once but I've forgotten. I believe it was because one of the producers hated her and fired her and she only came back when that producer left.
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Oct 13, 2020 13:30
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