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   Crazy stuff.
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Oct 13, 2020 02:25
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This was tagged as „the few countries that haven’t had a civil war“. Some pretty bold choices in there, I have to say
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Oct 13, 2020 09:43
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Oct 13, 2020 10:21
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I'll bite: enlighten me about the Norwegian civil war.
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Oct 13, 2020 11:15
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BonHair posted:I'll bite: enlighten me about the Norwegian civil war. Either 1. Dynastic disputes in the 12th century or 2. Ongoing civil war about which written language to use
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Oct 13, 2020 11:21
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One could argue that every conflict between quislings and resistance during WW2 counts as civil war. That would explain Norway, but why is Belarus marked as not having had a civil war then?
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Oct 13, 2020 11:29
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Australia shouldn't be on that. Has the map maker no respect for the veterans of the Emu War? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emu_War
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Oct 13, 2020 11:35
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Phlegmish posted:Yeah, it's a single vowel. I don't know why we have both ei and ij. It's supposed to be a single character, but the letters are still visually separate. You can't distinguish between IJ and IJ or ij and ij without actually selecting the characters. Compare with Æ, æ vs AE, ae, or Œ, œ vs. OE, oe, or even ẞ, ß vs. ∫S, ſs. Of course visually tying IJ/ij together would make it look like a U/ü.
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Oct 13, 2020 11:40
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Blut posted:Australia shouldn't be on that. Has the map maker no respect for the veterans of the Emu War?
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Oct 13, 2020 11:45
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Phlegmish posted:Yeah, it's a single vowel. I don't know why we have both ei and ij. "ei" was [ee], and "ij" was [ie] until they both underwent separate vowel shifts at separate times to [äj], or however you say it on your block.
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Oct 13, 2020 11:54
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Iceland had a 44 year long civil war in the 13th century in which six clans fought for supremacy eventually leading to the country being annexed by Norway when the chieftain that had sworn fealty to the Norwegian King was victorious and was made Jarl.
FreudianSlippers fucked around with this message at 12:20 on Oct 13, 2020 |
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Oct 13, 2020 12:18
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Cat Mattress posted:It's supposed to be a single character, but the letters are still visually separate. You can't distinguish between IJ and IJ or ij and ij without actually selecting the characters. Compare with Æ, æ vs AE, ae, or Œ, œ vs. OE, oe, or even ẞ, ß vs. ∫S, ſs. Of course visually tying IJ/ij together would make it look like a U/ü. 
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Oct 13, 2020 12:21
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Cat Mattress posted:It's supposed to be a single character, but the letters are still visually separate. You can't distinguish between IJ and IJ or ij and ij without actually selecting the characters. Compare with Æ, æ vs AE, ae, or Œ, œ vs. OE, oe, or even ẞ, ß vs. ∫S, ſs. Of course visually tying IJ/ij together would make it look like a U/ü. Only when typing. When handwriting it is clearly a single character.
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Oct 13, 2020 13:22
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Holy gently caress I've spent all my life thinking IJssel was a weird one-off. Is the character unique to dutch nowadays?Grevling posted:Either There's a norwegian film on Netflix featuring Tormund Giantsbane from GoT in a medieval ski race to save a royal babe, who's the true heir to the norwegian throne. It's pretty good. Edgar Allen Ho fucked around with this message at 14:38 on Oct 13, 2020 |
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Oct 13, 2020 14:35
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Holy gently caress I've spent all my life thinking IJssel was a weird one-off. Is the character unique to dutch nowadays?
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Oct 13, 2020 14:46
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If it ain’t Dutch, it ain’t mIJch.
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Oct 13, 2020 14:49
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Guavanaut posted:There's a bunch of other places like IJsselmonde that use it, but I can't think of any other language that does, Afrikaans replaced it with a Y as one of their first 'not Dutch' language changes. You guys really know your poo poo I'm impressed This thread is truly where the unironic galaxybrains gather
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Oct 13, 2020 16:47
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Indeed, you are free to stay as well though. 
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Oct 13, 2020 17:45
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First of all, the unicode single ij / IJ characters only exist for backwards compatibility with old encodings and they strongly recommend you actually use them. Just type the separate letters instead. Secondly, the state of the IJ letter is extremely weird. It's the only 2-letter vowel in Dutch that has that, others like ei and ui are always treated as two separate letters. In the dictionary it's sorted after ih, but traditionally in phone books it's sorted together with the Y (since proper names with an Y and IJ are basically the same names but the spelling of one changed at some point). In schools it's sometimes taught as the 25th letter, but the Y is ALSO the 25th letter. This image shows that in handwriting, but not in typing, it's written as a single letter:  When aligning letters vertically it's often considered a single letter. This sign says slijterij  There's a bunch more weird examples here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IJ_(digraph) The Scrabble set I had as a kid had a couple special IJ blocks (but the internet says the Dutch scrabble sets got rid of them), as well as an Y block. The Y block was very hard because there's barely any words with an Y in Dutch, only some loan words such as yoghurt. IJ often takes up a single square on Dutch crossword puzzles. For some reason, until a decade or two ago, Belgian Dutch people had a habit of capitalizing it as Ijsselmeer, you could see this on Belgian road signs and stuff. I can only imagine this is because of French influence where they don't know the IJ as a letter, but it seems they've standardized since then. Is the 'ij' a single letter or two letters? NOBODY KNOWS! Does it have a place in the alphabet or not? NOBODY KNOWS! Don't worry about it and just move on. Edit: Oh, in case you're wondering about the final Wikipedia image:  This one is a case of overcorrection. This Dutch person took the french word bijoux (bi-joux), couldn't possible imagine a non-Dutch word having an i followed by the j because everyone knows ij is Dutch only, and assumed all the dictionaries are wrong and the French must've meant a Y. Carbon dioxide fucked around with this message at 17:54 on Oct 13, 2020 |
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Oct 13, 2020 17:51
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𝕴𝕵
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Oct 13, 2020 18:00
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Ah, good ol Slut U. Now there’s an alma mater for ya.
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Oct 13, 2020 18:02
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dž
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Oct 13, 2020 18:11
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Carbon dioxide posted:First of all, the unicode single ij / IJ characters only exist for backwards compatibility with old encodings and they strongly recommend you actually use them. Just type the separate letters instead. Did my post go mojibake on your system or did you detect the presence of the ligature in a subtler way?
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Oct 13, 2020 18:17
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I was going to say that Croatian has a bunch of these character pairs that count as a single letter. nj, lj and dž. Hungarian has even more. Starks fucked around with this message at 18:33 on Oct 13, 2020 |
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Oct 13, 2020 18:26
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Carbon dioxide posted:Edit: I first read that as a misspelling of "bayous," which in a roundabout way led me to wikipedia to learn that bayou comes from a choctaw word (bayuk) and was originally local to louisiana french. I've spent my life thinking it was just archaic french that was preserved over here and now a lot of weird looks in my past have been explained. Specifically about dutch though, I had a flemish roommate in Toulouse and said something about their country being a bayou, and they switched to english to ask me what the gently caress a bayou was once.
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Oct 13, 2020 18:29
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Platystemon posted:Did my post go mojibake on your system or did you detect the presence of the ligature in a subtler way? I didn't notice in your post. There was someone else explicitly comparing them in another post and I was reacting to that one.
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Oct 13, 2020 18:34
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Louisiana has some interesting linguistic oddities. Plaquemines Parish gets its name from the Atakapa word for the persimmon trees that grow wild there.
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Oct 13, 2020 18:35
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Carbon dioxide posted:For some reason, until a decade or two ago, Belgian Dutch people had a habit of capitalizing it as Ijsselmeer, you could see this on Belgian road signs and stuff. I can only imagine this is because of French influence where they don't know the IJ as a letter, but it seems they've standardized since then.
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Oct 13, 2020 19:23
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Starks posted:I was going to say that Croatian has a bunch of these character pairs that count as a single letter. nj, lj and dž. Hungarian has even more. Yeah, although OP is Serbian, but it’s the same language anyway   e: wow, map sure is political, featuring Rankovićevo, a town named after the secret police head who was purged in the sixties for spying on Tito e2: this is the map nerd thread, let’s nerd out. The Serbian-Croatian language has three dialects, named by how their speakers say the word “what”, namely ča (tcha), kaj (kai, more or less) and što (shtoh). They are further divided by the way speakers pronounce the Slavic iat, as i (e), e (eh) and ije (e-YEH). They are called ikavian, ekavian and ijekavian. Dark purple is kajkavian, dark yellow chakavian. Blue is štokavian ikavian, magenta is štokavian ijekavian, yellow is štokavian ekavian. Simple, right? Take the plunge! Okay! fucked around with this message at 19:44 on Oct 13, 2020 |
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Oct 13, 2020 19:35
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System Metternich posted:This was tagged as „the few countries that haven’t had a civil war“. Some pretty bold choices in there, I have to say There goes Belarus' claim at being the true successor of Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth! (I do wonder whether there was enough local stuff in there in the 1917-1920 period?)
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Oct 13, 2020 20:30
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Canada had the Patriote war which really should count. e: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lower_Canada_Rebellion quote:58 deported to Australia Edgar Allen Ho fucked around with this message at 20:55 on Oct 13, 2020 |
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Oct 13, 2020 20:50
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OddObserver posted:There goes Belarus' claim at being the true successor of Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth! Surely the true successor to the PLC would have had many civil wars?
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Oct 13, 2020 21:04
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Take the plunge! Okay! posted:Yeah, although OP is Serbian, but it’s the same language anyway Haha, I specifically mentioned Croatian because Serbian Cyrillic solves that problem by assigning only one character to those letters. Please stop trying to ruin my resume by taking away my ability to say I speak 5 languages! If you like pain, here is an even more detailed (and up to date) version of that map:  There are some people who argue that the three Croatian dialects you mentioned are actually distinct languages. I'm not sure they're wrong, I grew up speaking Kajkavian Croatian but I have an easier time understanding someone from Belgrade or Novi Sad than I do someone from Poreč.
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Oct 13, 2020 21:22
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Canada had the Patriote war which really should count. And the North-West rebellions which actually had a federally elected member of Parliament leading an anti-government faction.
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Oct 13, 2020 21:31
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Starks posted:Haha, I specifically mentioned Croatian because Serbian Cyrillic solves that problem by assigning only one character to those letters. Please stop trying to ruin my resume by taking away my ability to say I speak 5 languages! Yeah, there is a lot more distinction between the three Croatian dialects than between standardized Croatian and Serbian. The trouble with these maps is, no way anyone in Dalmatia who doesn’t live on an island speaks čakavian anymore. Zagreb as a kajkavian stronghold is also very dubious today, the standardized language and migrations have been steamrolling local distinctions for a while now.
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Oct 13, 2020 21:51
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I've never seen a language/dialect map for the present day that didn't wildly exaggerate or just outright lie about the ubiquity of non-standard speech outside of like India or Papua New Guinea. Governments have just gotten too good at enforcing standardization and people move around too much for regional variety to grow beyond accents. Like so many places on these maps color wide swathes of countries a particular way, but in reality 100% of the population speaks the state sanctioned language/dialect at Full Native Proficiency with like 10% remembering a few phrases of the old way from their youth.
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Oct 14, 2020 00:31
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It's all just Yugoslavian.
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Oct 14, 2020 00:36
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IJugoslavian
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Oct 14, 2020 00:40
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Take the plunge! Okay! posted:Yeah, there is a lot more distinction between the three Croatian dialects than between standardized Croatian and Serbian. They're speaking something hosed up in Split and Zadar, I can tell you that much from personal experience. It's also worth noting that many people can switch between dialects, which is hard to capture on a map. I was pretty shocked the first time I heard my dad break out the "što"s to a border guard.
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Oct 14, 2020 01:31
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gently caress off Batman posted:IJugoslavian
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Oct 14, 2020 01:41
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