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night slime posted:What's the difference between that guy's tweet and Ben Shapiro's epic dunks anyway do you get mad at getfiscal tweets
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Oct 12, 2020 23:09
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having read a couple of chomskys books whose names i wouldnt be able to remember with a gun to my head, i can tell you that hes pretty loving old and liberal and i have no idea why you would ever call that sack of cancerous guts an anarchist
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Oct 12, 2020 23:13
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oh and hes so bloody american and thats terrible
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Oct 12, 2020 23:15
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Like many American liberals he has reached the shores of what could be called mildly conservative liberal Carribean and declared that he has reached the radical leftist India.
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Oct 13, 2020 02:36
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i applaud chapo for, at least, being so sour about sanders failing that they refuse to endorse biden
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Oct 13, 2020 03:39
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chomsky explicitly links his anarchist views to the enlightenment liberal tradition and ppl like humbdolt so it's not even like a sick own or whatever to call him a liberal
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Oct 13, 2020 03:44
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T-man posted:More like chumpski many people are saying this
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Oct 13, 2020 22:19
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anarchists are okay. 6/10
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Oct 13, 2020 22:45
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i think you have to ideologically support private capitalist hierarchies to be ideologically liberal which does not qualify chomsky however, if someone is ideologically opposed but practically supports...
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Oct 14, 2020 00:42
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i think at some point you have to say that words like anticapitalist, socialist, radical, anarchist, etc. have to mean something. concretely, calling for a vote for mike bloomberg (which chomsky says he would do if he were the dem nominee) in really any circumstance either means youre not those things, or they have no meaning. its fine to say ideally you want socialism, ideally i want to have a billion dollars. but concretely if you would call for a vote for a billionaire capitalist running on a pro-capitalist program in a capitalist party, then it kind of has the same meaning as me saying i want to have a billion dollars meanwhile i work as a teacher.
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Oct 14, 2020 01:10
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apropos to nothing posted:i think at some point you have to say that words like anticapitalist, socialist, radical, anarchist, etc. have to mean something. concretely, calling for a vote for mike bloomberg (which chomsky says he would do if he were the dem nominee) in really any circumstance either means youre not those things, or they have no meaning. its fine to say ideally you want socialism, ideally i want to have a billion dollars. but concretely if you would call for a vote for a billionaire capitalist running on a pro-capitalist program in a capitalist party, then it kind of has the same meaning as me saying i want to have a billion dollars meanwhile i work as a teacher. 
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Oct 14, 2020 01:31
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apropos to nothing posted:i think at some point you have to say that words like anticapitalist, socialist, radical, anarchist, etc. have to mean something. concretely, calling for a vote for mike bloomberg (which chomsky says he would do if he were the dem nominee) in really any circumstance either means youre not those things, or they have no meaning. its fine to say ideally you want socialism, ideally i want to have a billion dollars. but concretely if you would call for a vote for a billionaire capitalist running on a pro-capitalist program in a capitalist party, then it kind of has the same meaning as me saying i want to have a billion dollars meanwhile i work as a teacher. 
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Oct 14, 2020 01:38
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apropos to nothing posted:i think at some point you have to say that words like anticapitalist, socialist, radical, anarchist, etc. have to mean something. concretely, calling for a vote for mike bloomberg (which chomsky says he would do if he were the dem nominee) in really any circumstance either means youre not those things, or they have no meaning. its fine to say ideally you want socialism, ideally i want to have a billion dollars. but concretely if you would call for a vote for a billionaire capitalist running on a pro-capitalist program in a capitalist party, then it kind of has the same meaning as me saying i want to have a billion dollars meanwhile i work as a teacher. Fair enough, if that's your position. But what are we gonna say about people who not just vote but volunteer for, donate to, etc. a millionaire social democrat on a New Deal program in a capitalist party?
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Oct 14, 2020 01:41
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PERPETUAL IDIOT posted:Fair enough, if that's your position. But what are we gonna say about people who not just vote but volunteer for, donate to, etc. a millionaire social democrat on a New Deal program in a capitalist party? well american politics are all kinds of hosed up. even the green party is a capitalist party so calling for votes for hawkins is more or less equivalent, hes a social democrat running in a capitalist party. the PSL could be argued to be providing a socialist alternative but...their candidates literally cannot take office if elected and they will in no way pull anywhere near enough votes to even exist as a strong protest vote. the DSA is filled with people who believe that they can use the dem ballot line for a dirty break, so basically in the meantime theyre socialists or social democrats existing in a capitalist party. think its important to acknowledge that yeah theyre socialists/social dems not liberals or whatever and that yeah I disagree on some key things but at the end of the day theyre not evil/bad/class traitors/whatever for thinking they can use the dems, theyre comrades or future comrades too with a difference of opinion. just have to patiently explain over time and with the help of experience why its a mistaken approach to work within the dems. kinda similar situation to the sanders campaign imo. actual independent organization was built through intervening in the sanders campaign while still raising critiques of the campaign and sanders himself and for my part at least I was able to pull people out of the democratic party because of it. cant really say you can pull people out of the dems by intervening for biden or bloomberg. one actually does point towards greater strength and organization of the labor movement, the other not in any way shape or form.
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Oct 14, 2020 02:01
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apropos to nothing posted:the PSL could be argued to be providing a socialist alternative but...their candidates literally cannot take office if elected why
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Oct 14, 2020 02:38
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they might be thinking of when they ran someone under 35 for the 2012 election
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Oct 14, 2020 02:42
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lol that's funny
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Oct 14, 2020 02:42
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PERPETUAL IDIOT posted:Fair enough, if that's your position. But what are we gonna say about people who not just vote but volunteer for, donate to, etc. a millionaire social democrat on a New Deal program in a capitalist party? if you're a social democrat, you should vote for a social democrat Biden still isn't a social democrat
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Oct 14, 2020 03:32
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Raskolnikov38 posted:they might be thinking of when they ran someone under 35 for the 2012 election also isn't their veep in prison for allegedly offing a cop
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Oct 14, 2020 03:35
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apropos to nothing posted:i think at some point you have to say that words like anticapitalist, socialist, radical, anarchist, etc. have to mean something. concretely, calling for a vote for mike bloomberg (which chomsky says he would do if he were the dem nominee) in really any circumstance either means youre not those things, or they have no meaning. its fine to say ideally you want socialism, ideally i want to have a billion dollars. but concretely if you would call for a vote for a billionaire capitalist running on a pro-capitalist program in a capitalist party, then it kind of has the same meaning as me saying i want to have a billion dollars meanwhile i work as a teacher. chumpsky would have been gulaged in the "feckless loser" section and told to do communal work and read theory until he wasn't such a goddamn idiot bitch
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Oct 14, 2020 03:39
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StashAugustine posted:also isn't their veep in prison for allegedly offing a cop leonard peltier isn't veep candidate anymore, but also he should be out of prison
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Oct 14, 2020 06:34
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apropos to nothing posted:well american politics are all kinds of hosed up. even the green party is a capitalist party so calling for votes for hawkins is more or less equivalent, hes a social democrat running in a capitalist party. i'm not sure i have a good grasp on the overall roadmap for a "decentralized ecological socialism," but it's nice that the youth caucus was able to jam that past the hippie-liberal wing of the party Aeolius fucked around with this message at 08:09 on Oct 14, 2020 |
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Oct 14, 2020 08:05
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Oct 14, 2020 14:30
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I see that rudatron's illustrious posting career as Leftist too prosaic to not sound alt-rightish has come to its natural end, so I'm wondering how people here feel about Adolph Reed Jr. and other class-first Marxists. The first person who mentions Settlers is a dork btw
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Oct 14, 2020 14:32
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unlimited shrimp posted:I see that rudatron's illustrious posting career as Leftist too prosaic to not sound alt-rightish has come to its natural end, so I'm wondering how people here feel about Adolph Reed Jr. and other class-first Marxists. rudatron was not saying anything close to adolf reed. adolf reed does not claim that systematic racism doesn’t exist, that there aren’t disparities in law enforcement, or anything of the sort. what the gently caress are you talking about lol
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Oct 14, 2020 14:34
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I'm a bernie-or-bust tankie.
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Oct 14, 2020 14:36
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THS posted:rudatron was not saying anything close to adolf reed. adolf reed does not claim that systematic racism doesn’t exist, that there aren’t disparities in law enforcement, or anything of the sort. what the gently caress are you talking about lol No, but he'll say things like "But, when we step away from focus on racial disproportions, the glaring fact is that whites are roughly half or nearly half of all those killed annually by police. And the demand that we focus on the racial disparity is simultaneously a demand that we disattend from other possibly causal disparities." So closer to rudatron than to an antiracist workshop presenter. e. And IIRC he claims that systemic racism doesn't exist as such, but rather what we see today is the inertia of the systemic racism of the past. Or more generally, "systemic racism" is too imprecise a term to have explanatory power. I'd have to dig up the essay. unlimited shrimp fucked around with this message at 14:45 on Oct 14, 2020 |
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Oct 14, 2020 14:39
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guy who engages with politics only based on aesthetics finds new aesthetic. in other news, that goth you knew is punk now
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Oct 14, 2020 14:44
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unlimited shrimp posted:No, but he'll say things like "But, when we step away from focus on racial disproportions, the glaring fact is that whites are roughly half or nearly half of all those killed annually by police. And the demand that we focus on the racial disparity is simultaneously a demand that we disattend from other possibly causal disparities." So closer to rudatron than to an antiracist workshop presenter. this is a not an accurate recollection of the poo poo he was spewing in the thread rudatron posted:There are, in fact, no such studies, and the fact that you consider 'America is not a racist country' to be a 'white supremacist' talking point, speaks to your own racism. rudatron posted:But from the perspective of the criminal justice system, and incarceration, that is irrelevant. If crime exists, it is punished. You can't have civil society otherwise. rudatron posted:Assume malice or stupidity with anyone who disagrees with you is a sign of narcissism. rudatron posted:And yet somehow it's the US backed regimes that end up with better civil liberties and freedoms, and the ones that oppose the US have the worst. A very strange coincidence. that isn’t “class first” marxism that’s racist dog whistling and american exceptionalism combined with anime villain monologuing. his mistake was taking it a few steps too far in revealing alt-right bullshit. if rudatron used to not be as bad, then he definitely got a lot worse and absolutely deserved the ban rudatron posted:US incarceration isn't racist, racial incarceration tracks racial crime rates. Even if you replaced all police & judges with perfect robots, without prejudice, you'd still have racial disparities. rudatron posted:It imprisons people who commit crimes, you cannot be sent to jail purely for your ethnicity, and it's absurd to suggest otherwise. one more classic of him trying to get a rise out of people in the cool zone / blm thread: rudatron posted:dispersing riots with tear gas is standard procedure he was gross and im glad he is dead THS fucked around with this message at 14:57 on Oct 14, 2020 |
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Oct 14, 2020 14:49
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PERPETUAL IDIOT posted:I'm a bernie-or-bust tankie. those halcyon days, when he was cheering on the quashing of the hungarian revolution with his fellow bernie bros
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Oct 14, 2020 14:50
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unlimited shrimp posted:No, but he'll say things like "But, when we step away from focus on racial disproportions, the glaring fact is that whites are roughly half or nearly half of all those killed annually by police. And the demand that we focus on the racial disparity is simultaneously a demand that we disattend from other possibly causal disparities." So closer to rudatron than to an antiracist workshop presenter. i dont know who adolph reed is but i don't get why there's supposed to be some sort of binary choice between class and race. black people are treated as lower class citizens because of their race. you acknowledge racial disparity because a) its true b) it helps you build coalitions. i assume the point of departure from liberalism would be trying to actually build that coalition, including working class whites and blacks instead of focusing on more clap emoji POC entrepreneurs
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Oct 14, 2020 14:55
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THS posted:this is a not an accurate recollection of the poo poo he was spewing in the threat Look I literally just read the post he was perma'd for & wasn't following the thread so pretend I never mentioned him at all because I'm mostly just interested in how the CSPAM literati feel about Adolph Reed Jr. and other class-centered Marxists. mila kunis posted:i dont know who adolph reed is but i don't get why there's supposed to be some sort of binary choice between class and race. black people are treated as lower class citizens because of their race. you acknowledge racial disparity because a) its true b) it helps you build coalitions. There was a good back & forth with him and (I think) Umair Muhammad, the gist of which was that you can't disentangle the two because race is a particular mode of class in contemporary society. I thought it was an interesting take. unlimited shrimp fucked around with this message at 15:03 on Oct 14, 2020 |
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Oct 14, 2020 14:57
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gross
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Oct 14, 2020 15:11
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my favorite part of being a communist is laughing at people who think they're communist but they're not. gets me really loving jacked up like I injected some cocaine into my eyeball
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Oct 14, 2020 15:17
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hahahaha oh god im blidn hahahahaha
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Oct 14, 2020 15:18
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for me its going on twitter and telling people that the fire department isn't socialism
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Oct 14, 2020 15:25
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apropos to nothing posted:i think at some point you have to say that words like anticapitalist, socialist, radical, anarchist, etc. have to mean something. concretely, calling for a vote for mike bloomberg (which chomsky says he would do if he were the dem nominee) in really any circumstance either means youre not those things, or they have no meaning. its fine to say ideally you want socialism, ideally i want to have a billion dollars. but concretely if you would call for a vote for a billionaire capitalist running on a pro-capitalist program in a capitalist party, then it kind of has the same meaning as me saying i want to have a billion dollars meanwhile i work as a teacher.
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Oct 14, 2020 16:37
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im a bernie or bust stupid bourgeois anarkiddy
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Oct 14, 2020 18:36
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I'm a Bernie-AND-Bust tankie
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Oct 14, 2020 19:10
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I'm a Dukakis-Or-Death Tankie
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Oct 14, 2020 19:23
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