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dwarf74 posted:I have absolutely no idea why our locals are so up in arms against the fair tax here in Central IL. Remember: there are a lot of people who strongly believe that raises can sometimes be bad for them because "it will put them in the next bracket and they will be taking home less" I worked with union guys who literally thought this, and it was extremely hard to convince them otherwise 
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Oct 14, 2020 16:24
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dwarf74 posted:I have absolutely no idea why our locals are so up in arms against the fair tax here in Central IL. Spent some time this morning arguing with someone in this vein - the disinformation job the anti- side has pulled is impressive even by modern standards.
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Oct 14, 2020 16:24
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Sarcastro posted:Spent some time this morning arguing with someone in this vein - the disinformation job the anti- side has pulled is impressive even by modern standards. It's disheartening. It's just a graduated tax. And most of the arguments against it are describing things they can do right now They can raise your taxes whenever they want? Yes, they can do that now. Don't trust Springfield politicians? They will still be there. The state's finances are bad? Yes, this is to help fix it.
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Oct 14, 2020 16:28
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The solution for billionaires is a literal head tax imo
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Oct 14, 2020 16:33
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dwarf74 posted:Ditto, over the past few days. My favorite was "Letting them change the constitution means they can change anything they want to in it!" and I was like
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Oct 14, 2020 16:34
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dwarf74 posted:Ditto, over the past few days. Yeah, that's the hardest part - they've been convinced that right now the legislature/governor couldn't raise anyone's taxes (uh, yes they can) and after this they could (yes, but it would no longer have to be everyone's taxes. A lot of it seems to be a fundamental lack of understanding of how marginal taxes work in the first place. I have, at least for the moment, gotten the person to shut up or hopefully achieve a breakthrough moment by pointing out that right this moment, the legislature could raise Oprah's* taxes but they'd have to also raise yours in order to do it, whereas if the measure passes, they could raise hers without raising yours. We'll see. * used only as an example of a rich Illinois person, and I honestly can't remember if Oprah has moved elsewhere in the years since her show ended, but anyone else could be plugged in if needed.
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Oct 14, 2020 16:34
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Zarin posted:My favorite was "Letting them change the constitution means they can change anything they want to in it!" and I was like There's this weird notion that a constitution should never be changed, as if it was perfectly thought out and written when it was created and we cannot in any way deviant from it.
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Oct 14, 2020 17:02
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Isn't the current Illinois constitution from like 1975 or something
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Oct 14, 2020 17:03
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Popete posted:There's this weird notion that a constitution should never be changed, as if it was perfectly thought out and written when it was created and we cannot in any way deviant from it. Biblical literalism but for governmental documents lol
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Oct 14, 2020 17:04
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A lot of people in my area are still on the "one day I could be rich and I don't want to pay high taxes!" Yes, you're 55 years old and make 40 grand, I'm sure any day now you're going to be rolling in it.
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Oct 14, 2020 17:07
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Popete posted:There's this weird notion that a constitution should never be changed, as if it was perfectly thought out and written when it was created and we cannot in any way deviant from it. Yeah, but it was more like "They're gonna pull a bait-and-switch and do . . . something . . . nefarious!" beejay posted:A lot of people in my area are still on the "one day I could be rich and I don't want to pay high taxes!" Yes, you're 55 years old and make 40 grand, I'm sure any day now you're going to be rolling in it. 55? That's generous. I feel like people on Social Security (such as my mother . . . ) are of the same mindset well into their 70s.
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Oct 14, 2020 17:11
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Popete posted:There's this weird notion that a constitution should never be changed, as if it was perfectly thought out and written when it was created and we cannot in any way deviant from it. Which is really bizarre when you consider that the writers of the most famous constitution and the one most state constitutions are based on specifically states exactly how to change it because the writers knew that things would change over the course of time.
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Oct 14, 2020 17:12
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TMMadman posted:Which is really bizarre when you consider that the writers of the most famous constitution and the one most state constitutions are based on specifically states exactly how to change it because the writers knew that things would change over the course of time.
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Oct 14, 2020 17:27
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xzzy posted:Don't forget they were already debating what to amend the constitution with before they even finished ratifying it. And that the Constitution was a second draft in the first place after they failed extremely hard with the Articles of Confederation.
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Oct 14, 2020 17:28
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I've had some small discussions with my dad on the Fair Tax and his main 2 reasons he doesn't support it 1) It messes with his pension as a retired firefighter and my mom's pension as a retired librarian. Not sure exactly how. Guess it bumps their rate so they will pay more. And how's it fair to people, mainly retires, who only have a pension with a specific income? Now they are screwed if for example they got 45K a year prior and now 42K. 2) Pritzker paid less in state taxes than Rauner cause how bad the tax system is. Fair Tax doesn't fix all those loopholes so what good is it? They still won't pay that much more. I agree it doesn't but it's something and I've pointed out just how rich they are. They could pay 20 million a year and still be billionaires. I'm not that informed so I can't argue that much but it just doesn't matter to him. It doesn't matter if it is good for 80% of the state cause it will cost him a little more.
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Oct 14, 2020 17:45
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Digital Jedi posted:I've had some small discussions with my dad on the Fair Tax and his main 2 reasons he doesn't support it Isn’t retirement income exempt from Illinois’s income tax? Neither of them would pay anything as far as I know. If they’re paying state income tax on it now they need a new accountant!
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Oct 14, 2020 17:51
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Badger of Basra posted:Isn’t retirement income exempt from Illinois’s income tax? Neither of them would pay anything as far as I know. If they’re paying state income tax on it now they need a new accountant! https://www2.illinois.gov/rev/questionsandanswers/pages/99.aspx seems like it is exempt?
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Oct 14, 2020 18:02
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This sounds suspiciously like the mental gymnastics of people who decide that once their kids are out of the public school system that they shouldn't have to pay property taxes anymore.
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Oct 14, 2020 18:03
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Digital Jedi posted:I've had some small discussions with my dad on the Fair Tax and his main 2 reasons he doesn't support it If all they're getting is $45k a year in pension, the Fair Tax won't change that at all. The amendment is strictly to allow graduated income tax levels. Just because it doesn't fix loopholes doesn't make it a good bill. Not arguing with you, but those are things you could throw at him. This will not affect him in any way, if anything, he might get more money.
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Oct 14, 2020 18:07
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Tell him that if this doesn't pass, they're going to have to raise taxes on everyone
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Oct 14, 2020 18:07
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My mailbox is around the corner from my house so I subscribe to the USPS mail preview system - basically they scan everyone's mail anyway so they offer to send you the images of it to let you know what's coming. Recently they've pivoted this to show actual in-line ads in the email for certain mailpieces. Like those valpack coupons show me a big banner ad in the preview email instead of the low quality scan. Today, I got this right at the top of my mail preview:  e: Anecdotally, I've seen a lot of brain-poisoned postings about this on Nextdoor and Facebook. One of the lines I saw that took root with people is "they're trying to divide us". No, the class divide already exists and this lets the people in charge address the problem like over 30 other states already do with a progressive tax. It's exhausting to argue against, the spending on negative ads is doing a tremendous amount of damage. Solanumai fucked around with this message at 18:25 on Oct 14, 2020 |
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Oct 14, 2020 18:23
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Bird in a Blender posted:If all they're getting is $45k a year in pension, the Fair Tax won't change that at all. The amendment is strictly to allow graduated income tax levels. Just because it doesn't fix loopholes doesn't make it a good bill. Not arguing with you, but those are things you could throw at him. This will not affect him in any way, if anything, he might get more money. Not sure about my mom's but his pension is north of $70K a year. brugroffil posted:Tell him that if this doesn't pass, they're going to have to raise taxes on everyone Oh I have and it just in one ear out the other. Not that he can come up a better way to fix the state money issues.
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Oct 14, 2020 18:54
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$70k is still well under the limit what would get raised. Hell, send him this link and see if it helps. https://www2.illinois.gov/sites/gov/fairtax/Pages/default.aspx
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Oct 14, 2020 18:57
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1) pensions - Freirichs made a stupid statement a while back that he wanted to look into taxing pensions above 250k . Everyone who knew pensions aren't taxed flipped their poo poo because they aren't willing to have any slippery slope opening on this 2) a lot of people think that the rich will just buy off the legislature and that the new tax rates will end up hitting those making 50k-200k the hardest through a bunch of loopholes only people making 250k+ can take advantage of. thats part of the pushback
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Oct 14, 2020 19:08
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My dad was very worried about his taxes going up. I had to carefully explain to him that he doesn't pay a dime in state income tax and this will not change that.
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Oct 14, 2020 21:14
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Also lol that Chicago is restricting travel to and from Indiana. Wisconsin is probably next.
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Oct 14, 2020 23:05
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https://twitter.com/erin_hegarty/status/1316498273822224385?s=19
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Oct 14, 2020 23:33
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dwarf74 posted:Also lol that Chicago is restricting travel to and from Indiana.
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Oct 15, 2020 03:39
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Wow, they actually made new ads for the Fair Tax that are actually ads instead of 15 secs of text.
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Oct 15, 2020 05:21
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I really hope Pritzker and Madigan are petty enough to start taxing retirement income if the progressive tax doesn't pass. People who thought they were protecting their retirement are probably too far gone to realize their mistake, but at least they'll have to pay more because of their stupidity.
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Oct 15, 2020 14:38
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The X-man cometh posted:I really hope Pritzker and Madigan are petty enough to start taxing retirement income if the progressive tax doesn't pass. I am struggling to figure out if this would be a bad thing. Sure, the people at the low end of the retirement pay scale losing a thousand or two a year would hurt. But the sheer amount of retired people fleeing the state to save 3% would probably have to drop housing prices, right?
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Oct 15, 2020 14:51
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double post
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Oct 15, 2020 14:52
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Nothing gonna drop housing prices, that poo poo is never going to be affordable.
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Oct 15, 2020 15:10
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Orvin posted:I am struggling to figure out if this would be a bad thing. Sure, the people at the low end of the retirement pay scale losing a thousand or two a year would hurt. But the sheer amount of retired people fleeing the state to save 3% would probably have to drop housing prices, right? Most of them will unknowingly "flee" to a state that taxes retirement income.
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Oct 15, 2020 15:16
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I'm planning on voting early this week in Naperville and when looking up the sample ballot I saw a couple propositions I wasn't sure about and can't find much info online. It involves: Shall DuPage County continue to consider financial support of law enforcement and public safety its top budgeting priority" and Shall DuPage County continue to fund and support training methods that decrease the risk of injury to officers and suspects for local law enforcement agencies? They are both loaded questions that can mean a bunch of different things. Just reading the text makes me want to vote no on the first one and yes on the second one but the second one is ambiguous enough I'm not sure. It sounds like they are both being put forward by Republicans which makes me think this is designed to increase police funding or give police cover to continue doing what they are currently doing. Does anybody know anymore?
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Oct 19, 2020 18:32
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https://www.dailyherald.com/discuss/20200814/editorial-countys-actions-on-referendums-undermine-confidence-of-and-in-voters I just didn't answer any of them. Seems like dirty pool.
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Oct 19, 2020 18:45
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limp_cheese posted:I'm planning on voting early this week in Naperville and when looking up the sample ballot I saw a couple propositions I wasn't sure about and can't find much info online. It involves: If they're like the ones in Chicago they're non-binding so don't worry about it.
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Oct 19, 2020 19:18
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Thanks for the answers.
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Oct 19, 2020 20:03
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Yeah, they're non-binding. I voted this morning and did "No" to the first and "Yes" to the latter two. (edit: oh, and "Yes" on the progressive tax as well)
Sarcastro fucked around with this message at 21:02 on Oct 19, 2020 |
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Oct 19, 2020 20:14
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Is there any polling out there to suggest whether the progressive tax will pass or not? I ended up voting in Texas but I live here now and that's the one thing on the IL ballot I know about
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Oct 20, 2020 02:15
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