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Len posted:Getting some real "you cheated not only the game but also yourself" vibes from this thread Separate discussion really, but is this a bad thing? Is it actually a bad thing for a person to quit a game because it is too hard for them after they've played some decent portion of the game. Obviously if you play 30 minutes bashing your head against the wall and hating it and then quit that's not a great deal at $60. But what if you get halfway through a game and quit? I played Baba is you and quit the second it threw a timing puzzle at me but I didn't feel ripped off. I enjoyed the parts I did play and it was a neat game to experience. You don't have to beat a game to have experienced it. If you get through half of bloodborne and the game beats you then that is your story of bloodborne. It's absolutely the kind of story where if it was a movie or a book you could see the protagonist dying or giving into madness or despair at that point. It's like your own little personal bad ending.
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Oct 15, 2020 19:47
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Yes. Jesus Christ "oh you aren't good enough to see the whole game  " is certainly a take.
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Oct 15, 2020 19:50
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Byzantine posted:The grind and brickwalling of Dark Souls is part of the worldbuilding, plot and setting. I don’t get why you want to play it without engaging with any part of it. While the drive to persevere in the face of insurmountable odds instead of giving up is one of many themes in Dark Souls, the game does not, in fact, instantly fall apart if you remove some of that adversity for the player. To say so is doing a disservice to the artistry of literally the entire rest of the game. Edit: It also leads to a weird concept where if you were good enough at the game to not feel like DS1 was a grueling meatgrinder and never got brickwalled by the bosses then...I guess you got a worse game for it? Because the difficulty is so inexorably tied into the storytelling? John Murdoch has a new favorite as of 19:54 on Oct 15, 2020 |
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Oct 15, 2020 19:52
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John Murdoch posted:Not that I expect this to turn you around on the game, but it does have a pretty classic RPG thing where the first few hours are going to be the hardest simply because you're at the absolute lowest point in terms of both player skill and mechanical progression from stats and gear. Nyeh, as long as steam exists I'll have a copy. I've been having a real hard time having any game hold my attention of late, learning my way around it's systems isn't what I'm looking for presently.
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Oct 15, 2020 20:00
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gently caress off with that I already said it's a separate discussion. I'm being genuine here not trying to score points.There's lots of games where nobody sees the "whole game". There's probably more witcher 2 content I've missed than bloodborne content you've missed and I finished that game. Same for any number of ubisoft open world games. Score attack games and arcade games you essentially play until the game beats you also and higher difficulties you don't reach could certainly be thought of as content. Plenty of people play roguelikes they never have and maybe never will finish and yet still like those games in spite of them never seeing the end, especially true of older roguelikes. Is it, conceptually, wrong for a player to get only so far into a game before they can go no further and quit? I mean that in the same way someone might ask if games have to be fun. Do games have to be beatable by the player?
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Oct 15, 2020 20:07
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John Murdoch posted:Edit: It also leads to a weird concept where if you were good enough at the game to not feel like DS1 was a grueling meatgrinder and never got brickwalled by the bosses then...I guess you got a worse game for it? Because the difficulty is so inexorably tied into the storytelling? Yes, I would agree with that.
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Oct 15, 2020 20:09
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Phigs posted:gently caress off with that I already said it's a separate discussion. I'm being genuine here not trying to score points.There's lots of games where nobody sees the "whole game". There's probably more witcher 2 content I've missed than bloodborne content you've missed and I finished that game. Same for any number of ubisoft open world games. Score attack games and arcade games you essentially play until the game beats you also and higher difficulties you don't reach could certainly be thought of as content. Plenty of people play roguelikes they never have and maybe never will finish and yet still like those games in spite of them never seeing the end, especially true of older roguelikes. Yes?
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Oct 15, 2020 20:10
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Some Goon posted:Nyeh, as long as steam exists I'll have a copy. I've been having a real hard time having any game hold my attention of late, learning my way around it's systems isn't what I'm looking for presently. Entirely fair. I've been there many, many, many, many times and even as someone who's come to love Dark Souls only relatively recently I need to be in the right mood to get stuck into that kind of game.
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Oct 15, 2020 20:15
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How does one truly “beat” a game?
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Oct 15, 2020 20:15
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christmas boots posted:How does one truly “beat” a game? You turn it off
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Oct 15, 2020 20:16
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I'm just glad that achievements tied to difficulty modes seem to have gone the way of the dodo. I know achievements don't mean anything really, but it used to be really annoying, lazy and uninteresting for games to have a "beat Super Hardcore God Mode" achievement
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Oct 15, 2020 20:16
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Bogmonster posted:I'm just glad that achievements tied to difficulty modes seem to have gone the way of the dodo. I know achievements don't mean anything really, but it used to be really annoying, lazy and uninteresting for games to have a "beat Super Hardcore God Mode" achievement Especially when Super Hardcore God Mode is only unlocked after beating a 60 hour campaign. Difficulty trophies do have merit for games with shorter campaigns like Resident Evil and Devil May Cry.
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Oct 15, 2020 20:19
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While a well-implemented easy/hard mode is as rare as hens teeth, locking difficulties behind beating the game is annoying and shouldn't be done. At least put in a button code if you're afraid people will go straight to the hardest one and return the game or whatever.
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Oct 15, 2020 20:20
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Gaius Marius posted:You turn it off I guess the achievement I really needed to unlock... was my own.
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Oct 15, 2020 20:26
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Harder difficulties gated behind completion only makes sense in games like Nioh where extra difficulties are just there for players who just want to keep playing the game further with their optimized character.
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Oct 15, 2020 20:26
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Someone post the comic of the game critic dying on 1-1 and waxing poetically about the game
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Oct 15, 2020 20:27
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Byzantine posted:The grind and brickwalling of Dark Souls is part of the worldbuilding, plot and setting. I don’t get why you want to play it without engaging with any part of it. Because maybe they like the aesthetic of Dark Souls? Maybe they like the gameplay of Dark Souls, even if they're not good at it? Maybe their friends play Dark Souls and loved it and they want to see what all the fuss was about? And maybe why they want to play it is none of your business?
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Oct 15, 2020 20:39
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Captain Hygiene posted:If a game is only good because of its difficulty, it's not a good game imo. This is markedly atupider than the tedious and also stupid argument against easy modes or whatever
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Oct 15, 2020 20:41
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I'm not inclined to buy Borderlands 3 because Randy Pitchford is on my shitlist (Along with Ubisoft, Konami, Blizzard etc.) but also because they kill off a previous player character in the lamest way possible. It is possible to kill off a player-character in a well-received manner as shown in Red Dead, Final Fantasy, and even previous Borderland games. But having them show up briefly and then fatally choke on a canape will really grind your audience.
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Oct 15, 2020 20:50
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Len posted:Yes? I have hundreds of hours in an unfinished roguelike that literally doesn't have an ending yet.
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Oct 15, 2020 21:14
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rodbeard posted:I have hundreds of hours in an unfinished roguelike that literally doesn't have an ending yet. That's an unfinished game so not really comparable to a game that's finished and has an ending that being bad doesn't let me get to
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Oct 15, 2020 21:27
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The large bevy of options in The Last of Us Part 2 make it a markedly worse game than the first one.
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Oct 15, 2020 21:27
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I mean for some of the Souls games, there is stuff beyond just being hard. There are all the various builds you can make and gear you can choose from, some more RPG-esque puzzle elements, exploration, etc., but all that's sorta gated behind the initial curve of places like Undead Burg where you still basically have whatever weapons you started with and are just learning things like taking on groups and getting ambushed and so on. And I kinda get that, you're still learning the fundamentals, but it involves a lot of repeating the same encounters. It takes a while for the game to really open up, and I think it's that initial steepness that gets From's games classed as So Very Difficult.
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Oct 15, 2020 21:28
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There's something a little bit special about taking on a hard game that has zero options for difficulty, though it's minor. It's like climbing a mountain, versus climbing the same mountain but now there's an escalator built into it 20 feet off to your right. Yeah your physical experience was the same in either case, but in the latter case you feel kind of silly for putting yourself through all the trouble.Retro Futurist posted:Because if I pay $80 for a game I don't really appreciate being locked out because I don't have the reflexes to do things perfectly. People can bounce off of other media because it's "too <x> for them" just like games can be too difficult. My mom once tried to watch Crank 2: High Voltage and bailed because it was too violent. I tried to watch The Road and found it too depressing to get through. But I don't think either of them would've been better movies if they had a "how violent/sad do you want this movie to be" popup before you started watching them.
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Oct 15, 2020 21:39
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The escalator only bothers you because you lack discipline
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Oct 15, 2020 21:45
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How do we feel about devil daggers then
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Oct 15, 2020 21:50
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ilmucche posted:How do we feel about devil daggers then That it's one of the few games I refunded because it's a score attack arena shooter and not my jam
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Oct 15, 2020 22:06
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Byzantine posted:The grind and brickwalling of Dark Souls is part of the worldbuilding, plot and setting. I don’t get why you want to play it without engaging with any part of it. There are hundreds of hours of people talking about Dark Souls lore and the world on youtube. On the forum threads here, for the Soulsborne games there have been endlessly spoilered posts talking about lore and the meaning of game events. People make a huge deal about the setting of Dark Souls online and how the story is told in-game. I've heard more people enthuse about the world building of Dark Souls than pretty much any other fantasy games except Elder Scrolls ones. The gameplay isn't for me at all, but if there was an easy mode I'd probably use it, to see what it's all about. It's difficult to get a handle on a story told through item descriptions and sparse dialogue from some guy rolling through the game on youtube or talking over all of it.
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Oct 15, 2020 22:10
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...did you buy it without knowing it was a score attack arena shooter? Not trying to tie this into the previous, I'm genuinely curious.
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Oct 15, 2020 22:12
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The only acceptable way to do difficulty is the Pathologic 2 approach of having big long explanations of how the vision of the game depends on difficulty and how its cool to tweak the sliders a bit to make the game more accessible if you slide em too far you'll gently caress up the experience of the game. Or I gues you can be like Celeste and just have the options.
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Oct 15, 2020 22:15
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There is sort of a difficulty mode select in the various soulsborne games, it's called grinding for souls and using them to level. Now, Sekiro... I will say that beating the soulsborne games requires a fair amount of patience and persistence, and it's perfectly reasonable for players to not want to have to exhibit those traits in their free time. I will say that the enforced difficulty mandates that you engage with the game's systems, rather than just whack the difficulty to minimum and ignore them, and that for the most part the game systems are good enough to reward engaging with them. There's definitely a drawback in that some players will be stonewalled by the difficulty and give up, but it seems unlikely at this point that you'd buy a soulsborne game without being aware of their reputation. Gort has a new favorite as of 22:27 on Oct 15, 2020 |
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Oct 15, 2020 22:23
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The big thing dragging down Sekiro for me is the stealth. In particular, if you get spotted and run away, the enemies will spend aaaages in a state where they're not actively hunting for you but if you get at all close they'll instantly know where you are. So you either have to abandon stealth or hide behind a bush twiddling your thumbs.
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Oct 15, 2020 22:41
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Danger - Octopus! posted:People make a huge deal about the setting of Dark Souls online and how the story is told in-game. I've heard more people enthuse about the world building of Dark Souls than pretty much any other fantasy games except Elder Scrolls ones. The gameplay isn't for me at all, but if there was an easy mode I'd probably use it, to see what it's all about. It's difficult to get a handle on a story told through item descriptions and sparse dialogue from some guy rolling through the game on youtube or talking over all of it. Yeah the story makes no sense, is completely disjointed with no continuity, and every sequence of events you find people talking about is more or less a fanfic. Plus you have to find what scraps are there by reading a shoe.
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Oct 15, 2020 23:31
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Some Goon posted:...did you buy it without knowing it was a score attack arena shooter? I did not, i bought it because either this thread or the good things in games thread were all "it's a great game, better than nuclear throne/gungeon" and it was like a buck and i bought it based on the hype
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Oct 15, 2020 23:37
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Manager Hoyden posted:Yeah the story makes no sense, is completely disjointed with no continuity, and every sequence of events you find people talking about is more or less a fanfic. Plus you have to find what scraps are there by reading a shoe. Ok, and? Even if the story was undeniably irredeemably garbage, below the ranking of the worst first attempt at a story by the least creative child, what is it to you if somebody wants to interact with it?
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Oct 16, 2020 00:15
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rydiafan posted:Ok, and? Exactly. Even the most worthless trash drivel could conceivably entertain someone somewhere somehow. For instance I’m sure your posts have been liked by someone.
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Oct 16, 2020 00:17
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I kid I kid. I enjoy them.
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Oct 16, 2020 00:18
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rydiafan posted:Ok, and? Fair enough I suppose. I don't understand why anyone would care enough about such a story to demand the makers add an easy mode just for the to get at it, especially given the thousands of better story experiences out there, but I guess someone out there in in fact that broken-brained and entitled.
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Oct 16, 2020 00:54
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Dark Souls' writing is more of a tone piece and scene-setting than a linear narrative. Sure there's sequences of events, but you're not really intended to read, say, the pieces of Anor Londo's story as 'this is everything that happened to this place', it's more meant as 'this is the sort of place and history you're standing in, all falling into decay'. It's why I prefer Dark Souls 2's approach over 3's. It's deliberately vague and contradictory to what you know about the world of Dark Souls, because the point isn't 'this is what happened to Lordran after Dark Souls 1', it's 'actual truth and events of history don't matter, everyone forgot, moved on, built up, and collapsed again'. It actively ruins attempts at reading it as a linear narrative and finding connections, because that's not what you're supposed to care about.
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Oct 16, 2020 01:10
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I'm playing through Breath of the Wild for the first time and it's one of the best games I've ever played and also one of the best-designed. It really shows that so many people put so much into it and made a truly incredible game. That said, upping enemy HP so I have to do the same thing more times rather than giving me a reason to approach different challenges in different ways isn't really more difficult, just tedious. Doesn't matter if a Guardian has 500 of 3500HP, I sprint to the side as it charges up, hit it in the eye with my bow if I get the timing right, and whack it with a sword however many more times it takes in exactly the same pattern. I would rather be challenged by having to try new strategies (other than throwing bombs from behind cover - they're bombs, why can I do more damage with a tree branch?) than go through repetitive motions. Lynels and Stone Taluses are even worse and I mostly avoid them rather than spending 10 minutes fighting them. Despite that, it's still unbelievably fun and lends itself to 5 minutes of free time as well as it does a couple of hours. I just wish scaling wasn't one dimensional. It's also not really even a complaint, but it's silly that I have to use one specific disguise in Gerudo Town even after everyone has seen through it, but that's just a few seconds here and there. christmas boots posted:How does one truly “beat” a game?
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Oct 16, 2020 02:55
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