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the sex ghost posted:I know news is meaningless and nothing matters any more but you would have thought the government legalising crimes committed by the government would have warranted a front page in one of the papers at least. Can't wait for the Betstapo to break my knees for winning too much on an accumulator which newspaper wouldnt support this? e: 230AD, death of Zhong Yao, a man with some of the best handwriting in history
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Oct 15, 2020 20:44
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OwlFancier posted:Apparently you have to be a "covert human intelligence source" as defined under the RIPA but I can't find where they actually define what one of those is or if there is anything stopping them from just declaring anyone to be one. As far as I know defining one would presumably fall to the same people though. Well, it's covert. Can't just go around telling people. Also, going to love to be shot dead by HMRC because the classic video game I imported from Canada was cheekily said to be cheaper than it really is to save me on exhorbitant import fees.
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Oct 15, 2020 20:46
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OwlFancier posted:Apparently you have to be a "covert human intelligence source" as defined under the RIPA but I can't find where they actually define what one of those is or if there is anything stopping them from just declaring anyone to be one. As far as I know defining one would presumably fall to the same people though. It's basically anyone that the relevant agency says is one. Not just 00 agents, but Fingers Molloy down at the Rose and Crown.
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Oct 15, 2020 20:47
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Yeah that's what I was thinking, so they're not just spies and cops but anyone the cops want to make a "covert human intelligence source" But still, as far as I can tell there is nothing stopping the department of health and social care from training a crack squad of assassins to secure more funding.
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Oct 15, 2020 20:50
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Communist Thoughts posted:which newspaper wouldnt support this? No I mean like you would have thought even the mail or somebody would have had a bit of 'Boris kicks the poo poo out of lawyers and people who don't like crime' and a picture of him gurning and punching the air like he does, but no
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Oct 15, 2020 20:50
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Communist Thoughts posted:is that true?* Technically, yes. There were a bunch of Tories who didn't vote, because it was clear Labour weren't going to oppose it en masse. If it hadn't been a forgone conclusion, Cummy would have called all the Tories in to vote it through.
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Oct 15, 2020 20:53
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OwlFancier posted:Not specifically a response to this but CF if you are willing could you please post the left slate for the NEC elections once they start because you're literally the only reason I reupped my membership so I could vote in the thing. The left slate is the Grassroots Voice slate, which you can read about here: https://futureweneed.com/. This time the voting is with STV rather than FPTP, so they’ve worked out a specific order to vote in in each region to maximise our chances. You can find out your order here: https://futureweneed.com/preference/
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Oct 15, 2020 20:57
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I have bookmarked it and will check again to make sure once I get a ballot, thank you.
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Oct 15, 2020 20:59
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Is the CHIS bill the endgame of that Soldier F shithead?
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Oct 15, 2020 21:00
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Gonzo McFee posted:https://twitter.com/YorkshireLad_87/status/1316804272252751873?s=19 I agree with his bio when it says he needs to gently caress off and join the tories.
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Oct 15, 2020 21:03
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The little britain header is certainly helping.
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Oct 15, 2020 21:04
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Communist Thoughts posted:is that true?* Yeah, think it was this bill that had a really low turnout to vote and the Tories won by fewer votes than there are Labour members. It was the same day the Labour Lords sat on their hands and abstained on a vote to block 50k evictions and again the Tories won with fewer votes than there are Labour peers.
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Oct 15, 2020 21:08
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OwlFancier posted:Yeah that's what I was thinking, so they're not just spies and cops but anyone the cops want to make a "covert human intelligence source" Covert hit squads to hunt down quarantine breakers.
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Oct 15, 2020 21:09
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I find it hard to get too worked up over the Spycops bill because Labour were right about one thing: the government already does all this poo poo. Undercover agents have literally murdered UK citizens on UK soil, it's public knowledge they did it, and nothing happens. They've infiltrated harmless left-wing groups, essentially raped the women in them, again public knowledge, and nothing happens. Functionally they will never be held account for those crimes so this bill changes nothing. Don't get me wrong, it's a disgrace that Labour abstained and a complete slap in the face to victims. I just don't think it's actually the death knell for democracy because that already happened way back.
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Oct 15, 2020 21:13
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I also agree with that assessment, putting it into law might increase the probability of it but the only opposition is going to come with a complete sea change in politics. The only defence against it is mass resistance. Mostly it's just spectacularly stupid legislation.
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Oct 15, 2020 21:16
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^^^ We may not necessarily agree with it, but there is a logical argument that it can sometimes be in the public interest not to prosecute someone for committing offences if they're achieving a greater good that can only be achieved if they commit offences. The practical effect of all this is to allow the public interest test to be applied before offences are committed and not after them; and for the decisions to be made by different people. It's a different way of cooking, but at the end of the day you still have an omelette.OwlFancier posted:Apparently you have to be a "covert human intelligence source" as defined under the RIPA but I can't find where they actually define what one of those is or if there is anything stopping them from just declaring anyone to be one. As far as I know defining one would presumably fall to the same people though. RIPA section 26 subsection 6: quote:...A person is a covert human intelligence source if— Further sections provide that it's unlawful to use someone as a CHIS without it being properly authorised, and/or without having a properly trained handler to supervise the CHIS and be directly responsible for their safety. (Which doesn't stop it happening, but does eventually come back to bite people in highly amusing fashion some years later in court.) Trin Tragula fucked around with this message at 21:20 on Oct 15, 2020 |
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Oct 15, 2020 21:16
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They've given the license to kill to the FSA because they intend to murder everyone involved in the production of proletarian snacks like monster munch.
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Oct 15, 2020 21:16
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Oh poo poo they've given it to the gambling commision so they can go after anyone campaigning against betting machines haven't they? They're going to destroy people's lives because they are threatening the "economically important" betting industry. This law is so loving broad it's actually mind boggling.
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Oct 15, 2020 21:19
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Trin Tragula posted:RIPA section 26 subsection 6: Ah, so yes that is very broad, and from what I found the justification for authorizing them is broadly the same as the CHIS bill, but yes there is supposed to be someone "permanently working" at the agency or whatever as their handler. a pipe smoking dog posted:Oh poo poo they've given it to the gambling commision so they can go after anyone campaigning against betting machines haven't they? They're going to destroy people's lives because they are threatening the "economically important" betting industry. As far as I could see in the RIPA they actually already had given all these weird agencies the power to covertly investigate people possibly as far back as 2000?? So the CHIS bill actually is just copying RIPA in terms of who it applies to but also legalizing criminal conduct. So as with everything, it's blair's fault. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 21:22 on Oct 15, 2020 |
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Oct 15, 2020 21:19
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they can also target children for rape, torture and murder too with this bill. stella creasy raised this and they gave the same vague "oh it's covered elsewhere" non-answer. gently caress me. i think they're anticipating civil unrest as brexit and state asset stripping really bite. we were talking about the collapse of the USSR t'other day, this is exactly what you'd expect from a state gearing up for a series of systemic shocks innit. they need someone to do wet work but they can't be doing with a bunch of rolling scandals and lawsuits. easier to just legalise it all and let the MI5 subcontractors do what they want to e.g. people trying to unionise at a serco hospital in 2027 or whatever. leave the main agitators mutilated and catatonic, watch the terror spread and everyone quietly fall in line. edit: yeah much of this stuff already happens but this is the most overt, unapologetic and broad sanction i've ever known them have for this kind of thing. there's not even a vague apologetic attempt to bullshit people on what this is. gh0stpinballa fucked around with this message at 21:25 on Oct 15, 2020 |
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Oct 15, 2020 21:21
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jabby posted:I find it hard to get too worked up over the Spycops bill because Labour were right about one thing: the government already does all this poo poo. Undercover agents have literally murdered UK citizens on UK soil, it's public knowledge they did it, and nothing happens. They've infiltrated harmless left-wing groups, essentially raped the women in them, again public knowledge, and nothing happens. Functionally they will never be held account for those crimes so this bill changes nothing. It's the difference between tacit permission and enthusiastic endorsement.
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Oct 15, 2020 21:24
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Trin Tragula posted:^^^ We may not necessarily agree with it, but there is a logical argument that it can sometimes be in the public interest not to prosecute someone for committing offences if they're achieving a greater good that can only be achieved if they commit offences. The practical effect of all this is to allow the public interest test to be applied before offences are committed and not after them; and for the decisions to be made by different people. It's a different way of cooking, but at the end of the day you still have an omelette. My complaint is that I don't think the former is true and I especially don't think the former is true in the case of the cops and the security services. I want them to stop doing that, I want them to be prosecuted for that, or preferably I would rather they did not exist altogether. Even ignoring the complete vacuum of confidence I have in the ability of the cops and government to self regulate the use of that power somehow better than they already do. I do not think there are unseen john mclaine's out there heroically saving lives by shooting up buildings full of terrorists and I don't think creating legislative sanctions for them is a good idea. We know what cops do with power and it isn't help us. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 21:32 on Oct 15, 2020 |
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Oct 15, 2020 21:28
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gh0stpinballa posted:edit: yeah much of this stuff already happens but this is the most overt, unapologetic and broad sanction i've ever known them have for this kind of thing. there's not even a vague apologetic attempt to bullshit people on what this is. Yeah I mean this is what really gets me, they have just dropped all pretence. It's basically saying get in line, or we'll kill you and rape your kids.
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Oct 15, 2020 21:29
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like all the previous bills that legalised crimes the state was already doing but discouraged from, it will make those things much worse
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Oct 15, 2020 21:30
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turns out the gubmint have a new interactive covid map https://coronavirus-staging.data.gov.uk/details/interactive-map (and a new 'experimental' dashboard) https://coronavirus-staging.data.gov.uk/
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Oct 15, 2020 22:18
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https://twitter.com/simonmaginn/status/1316792246537277448?s=19 lol
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Oct 15, 2020 22:29
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JeremoudCorbynejad posted:turns out the gubmint have a new interactive covid map
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Oct 15, 2020 22:31
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I assume it means there are no recorded cases in that area. Also woop woop living and working in 400+ zone!
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Oct 15, 2020 22:36
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OwlFancier posted:I assume it means there are no recorded cases in that area. So few that reporting a number at all makes them traceable and reveals personal information when data can be cross compared. NHS usually suppresses the numbers if there are less than 6 of them.
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Oct 15, 2020 22:48
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Where I live has one of the lowest rates in London  Every single place I've visited in the last 7 days is a loving plague pit 
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Oct 15, 2020 23:01
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It's straight up not allowing me to connect to the server.
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Oct 15, 2020 23:03
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Doesnt want you infecting it. Lol, york is totally being swung by the big red blob that is right where the university is. NotJustANumber99 fucked around with this message at 23:09 on Oct 15, 2020 |
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Oct 15, 2020 23:05
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Actually this is interesting because you can actually track the different waves across the country, particularly the fact that pre-lockdown London had the highest infection rates in the centre of town, but now the highest rates are all in the commuter belt; forcing everyone back to the office working *swimmingly*. In fact apart from South Tottenham all of the >200 areas in London are richer, lower-density areas, which could mean either that they're the kind of area where people are much more likely to go "Nah we won't get it here" or be full of people with the time to go get tested (and not worry about losing their jobs if they have to isolate).
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Oct 15, 2020 23:09
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Mr Phillby posted:Pratchett was writting better stories about wizard schools decades before Harry potter was a thing. Uh. Unseen University is, well, very clearly a university, specifically Oxbridge. Not a school, boarding or otherwise. Totally different genre; Harry Potter is Billy Bunter With Broomsticks.
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Oct 15, 2020 23:10
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Guavanaut posted:It's straight up not allowing me to connect to the server. You complained about this last time this site came up, are you sure you've not got some weird issue with your connection (or have nullrouted gov.uk to keep them from being able to connect to you  )
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Oct 15, 2020 23:10
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Very emphatically a university in fact, most of its plots and jokes revolve around it being one.
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Oct 15, 2020 23:11
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feedmegin posted:Uh. Unseen University is, well, very clearly a university, specifically Oxbridge. Not a school, boarding or otherwise. Totally different genre; Harry Potter is Billy Bunter With Broomsticks. Sourcery is definitely in the "kid goes to wizard school" genre.
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Oct 15, 2020 23:11
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goddamnedtwisto posted:Actually this is interesting because you can actually track the different waves across the country, particularly the fact that pre-lockdown London had the highest infection rates in the centre of town, but now the highest rates are all in the commuter belt; forcing everyone back to the office working *swimmingly*. Which number are we using here, daily or per week?
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Oct 15, 2020 23:13
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goddamnedtwisto posted:You complained about this last time this site came up, are you sure you've not got some weird issue with your connection (or have nullrouted gov.uk to keep them from being able to connect to you Or have you noscripted it, which flat out prevents me from using some websites if they have too many layers of cross connecting javascript. goddamnedtwisto posted:Sourcery is definitely in the "kid goes to wizard school" genre. I mean, yes, technically but it's a bit of a departure too  Kid goes to wizard school and starts a metaphor for the arms race is not necessarily normal.
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Oct 15, 2020 23:13
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feedmegin posted:Uh. Unseen University is, well, very clearly a university, specifically Oxbridge. Not a school, boarding or otherwise. Totally different genre; Harry Potter is Billy Bunter With Broomsticks. Harry Potter is Mildred Hubble with a penis and a saviour complex.
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Oct 15, 2020 23:14
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