|
Tony definitely had an air of being too cool or professional to be silly at times. There was some WWF show he and Jesse were commentating and Jesse was decked out in all of this Disney gear. He tried to get Tony to wear a Goofy hat and he just wouldn't and it didn't seem like a good natured thing, more that he saw himself as too serious an announcer. Maybe it's just my read of him, but he always felt self-protecting in a way where he couldn't let himself be silly or the butt of a joke the way everyone else would. That's definitely changed now, though. Ganso Bomb fucked around with this message at 19:51 on Oct 15, 2020 |
#
?
Oct 14, 2020 18:32
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 14:15 |
|
|
DLC Inc posted:I remember yelling out loud when Cena did a Code Red to AJ many years back, it never seemed like a move that was done in American wrestling let alone loving WWE. Now everyone does them in AEW, it's not special anymore. an investigatve thread was launched when Trevor Murdoch hit a yoshi tonic in 2008
|
|
#
?
Oct 14, 2020 18:47
|
|
|
DLC Inc posted:I remember yelling out loud when Cena did a Code Red to AJ many years back, it never seemed like a move that was done in American wrestling let alone loving WWE. Now everyone does them in AEW, it's not special anymore. I remember I was at the 2015 Money in the Bank PPV where Cena busted out his first one in a match with Kevin Owens and this complete stranger turns to me and yells at me "Did Cena just do a loving Yoshi Tonic?". That and the Rollins/Ambrose ladder match nearly made up for Sheamus winning the briefcase. I also remember that Ambrose cut an amazing promo to send the crowd home happy after the very confusing Dusty Finish to the main event. Cena just brought it to another level whenever he fought an indie darling.
|
|
#
?
Oct 14, 2020 19:06
|
|
|
What is the name of the armbar shown here? The one where the person taking it usually has their arms out in a Jesus pose, and the one giving it has their legs twined with the victims other arm. I always thought it was called a "Fujiwara Armbar", but a google image search shows a bunch of different looking armbars.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2020 03:46
|
|
|
cross armbar.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2020 03:50
|
|
|
juji gatame
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2020 03:53
|
|
|
BrigadierSensible posted:What is the name of the armbar shown here? Fujiwara Armbar is MJF'S Salt of the Earth/what Ken Shamrock used to set up the ankle-lock
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2020 03:57
|
|
|
Was the late 90s "let's hit everyone in the head as hard as we can with chairs" an American wrestling thing or was it happening in Mexico and Japan as well?
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2020 06:59
|
|
|
NikkolasKing posted:Was the late 90s "let's hit everyone in the head as hard as we can with chairs" an American wrestling thing or was it happening in Mexico and Japan as well? Mexico not sure but i think alot of the american wrestling there was aping FMW which i think was a massive influence on ECW so it was the trickle effect to concussions ahoy.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2020 12:17
|
|
|
Yeah, I feel like Tanaka/Awesome like set the bar in America/ECW and was all billed as "THIS IS THE poo poo THEY'RE DOING IN JAPAN!"
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2020 12:37
|
|
|
STAC Goat posted:Yeah, I feel like Tanaka/Awesome like set the bar in America/ECW and was all billed as "THIS IS THE poo poo THEY'RE DOING IN JAPAN!" Oh God, it was bad way before Tanaka came in. The Raven Dreamer feud was built around walk and brawls with excessive headshots
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2020 12:58
|
|
|
Yeah, true, I just remember there was this thing where guys like Kai En Tai, Shinzeki/Hayabusa, Gedo/Jedo, and Tajiri would come into ECW and it would be like "THIS IS WHAT THEY'RE DOING!" and it would blow my mind. And then Tanaka and Awesome showed up and just started trying to murder each other in a way that made me forget all that came before.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2020 13:03
|
|
|
It made them forget all that came before too
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2020 13:04
|
|
|
MassRafTer posted:I'm with Tony. The Terry Garvin School of Self Defense can rest in piss. Can you elaborate?
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2020 13:25
|
|
|
Red posted:Can you elaborate? Terry Garvin was involved in the ringboy scandal with Mel Philips (& Pat Patterson I think?) & Gorilla on commentary would make "cute" references to it on commentary sometimes, because haha sexual abuse I guess. Garvin was also accused by Randy Orton's uncle Barry Orton of sexually assaulting him when Barry was 19.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2020 13:28
|
|
|
forkboy84 posted:Terry Garvin was involved in the ringboy scandal with Mel Philips (& Pat Patterson I think?) & Gorilla on commentary would make "cute" references to it on commentary sometimes, because haha sexual abuse I guess. Garvin was also accused by Randy Orton's uncle Barry Orton of sexually assaulting him when Barry was 19. Yes, Mel Phillips would molest the younger ring boys and groom them for Terry Garvin who would take advantage of them after puberty. Gorilla Monsoon would joke about this on commentary because he was a sick gently caress.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2020 14:50
|
|
|
Hedgehog Pie posted:I never really thought that Tony was as bad as everyone said he was in WCW (then again, it's hard not to look like the better commentator when you're up alongside Dusty, Zbyszko, Madden, etc.), but he seemed to be burned pretty badly by being passed up for Bischoff in getting promoted and it greatly affected his work. He and Brain occasionally had good chemistry, but a lot of time he was exactly what you DON'T want opposite Heenan, just sandbagging his jokes and not playing along with him, though to be fair Brain quickly stopped giving a poo poo himself because WCW had an extremely lousy work culture. Then there are the stories where he'd try to do politics and fail miserably... like the one where he was going around bad-mouthing Eddie Guerrero, but because everyone liked Eddie word quickly got back to him and Tony was roundly told off. I was thinking about this post yesterday, and honestly, I think someone like Attitude Era Jim Ross as a middleman between Tony and Heenan probably would have worked really well. Tony and JR could, as co-commentators, discuss the history or context of the match, and JR could lead in playing off of Heenan. He absolutely would have had the skill and nous to play to both of their strengths.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2020 19:11
|
|
|
Vagabundo posted:I was thinking about this post yesterday, and honestly, I think someone like Attitude Era Jim Ross as a middleman between Tony and Heenan probably would have worked really well. Tony and JR could, as co-commentators, discuss the history or context of the match, and JR could lead in playing off of Heenan. He absolutely would have had the skill and nous to play to both of their strengths. Two thoughts: 1. This sounds like what they tried to do with Tenay and others. It was awkward because Tenay was even worse at comedy than Tony, so Heenan had two guys he couldn't play off. 2. If you have Jim Ross and Bobby Heenan on commentary in the 90's, WTF do you even need Tony for?
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2020 20:50
|
|
|
Diabolik900 posted:Not sure if there were other reasons before this, but Tony supposedly argued against letting Heenan give a tribute to Gorilla Monsoon on Nitro after he died. Pretty lovely.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2020 21:13
|
|
|
rujasu posted:Two thoughts: 1. JR in the Attitude Era was an excellent straight man to Lawler's jokey jokes, so for me, that JR with a pre-WCW Heenan is the commentary equivalent of The Rock VS HBK - a dream match that just wasn't. 2. It's predicated on there being a 3-person commentary team, and in this hypothetical scenario, JR would be the ideal person to lead it in a way that plays to the strengths of each person. Tony was always good at building on the context of the match, giving it a sense of occasion.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2020 22:14
|
|
|
JR and Brain did a couple of shows together before the latter left for WCW. I want to say WMIX was one of them
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2020 22:23
|
|
|
jesus WEP posted:JR and Brain did a couple of shows together before the latter left for WCW. I want to say WMIX was one of them Was JR doing commentary on them though? I'd check, but gently caress giving WWE any of my money. I also vaguely remember Brain appeared onscreen with the Horsemen in the WWF, and gently caress me, just think about what could have been.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2020 22:24
|
|
|
Vagabundo posted:1. JR in the Attitude Era was an excellent straight man to Lawler's jokey jokes, so for me, that JR with a pre-WCW Heenan is the commentary equivalent of The Rock VS HBK - a dream match that just wasn't. I used to really hate how the McMahons would come out and do these long promos at the beginning of Raw. But looking back, those were lengthy parts of the show where Lawler usually wasn't saying much, which vastly improved the product
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2020 22:27
|
|
|
Vagabundo posted:Was JR doing commentary on them though? I'd check, but gently caress giving WWE any of my money.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2020 22:31
|
|
|
davidbix posted:I know Tony has addressed all of the Heenan stuff in detail, but I don't remember what he said about this. (That it wasn't true, or that it was true with an explanation.) Tony loved Gorilla, so even in the context of his being burnt out and having a weird relationship with Bobby, the story doesn't make much sense. Tony said that he asked Bobby if he got approval from Eric because Tony would get poo poo for it if things went wrong, Bobby said he doesn’t care, and Tony just said “welp alright go for it”. I think Bobby took it as Tony being a jerk who wouldn’t let him say goodbye to his friend, to which Tony admits he probably did come off that way.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2020 22:32
|
|
|
Yeah, I feel like the Gorilla tribute thing was just a weird political issue at the time. They couldn't afford to ignore Owen Hart's death a few months earlier, even though he was "a WWF guy", because he was in his prime and it happened so publicly and tragically (and because Bret was with them by then). Gorilla was "a WWF guy" who was old and wasn't on TV at that point, so management were probably less inclined to acknowledge him. If that's what happened then Tony was probably right to ask if Heenan had cleared it with Bischoff first, but you can also understand why Heenan was upset by that. Corporate politics are the worst.jesus WEP posted:Wikipedia says they were together for Mania 9 and KotR 93 as well They were, though they were also joined by Savage for those shows. Unfortunately, much like Dusty, Savage had a gimmick that did not translate into being a good commentator at all. I remember KOTR being slightly better, but WMIX is marked by Savage just trying to goad Heenan over and over again (probably at Vince's request), giving JR very little to do. Also slightly hurting the "dream pairing" aspect is that this was JR's first show with the WWF, and both he and Heenan were stuck wearing togas because of the Caesar's Palace theme. Hedgehog Pie fucked around with this message at 23:10 on Oct 15, 2020 |
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2020 23:08
|
|
|
From what I understand, there was also an issue with Tony being made aware of angles and such ahead of time and not letting the other commentators know, so he'd have time to come up with better lines.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2020 23:20
|
|
|
The story I remember, which may have come from Brain's book, is that Brain wanted to say goodbye to Monsoon on TV and Tony didn't want him to. Then when Brain did it, Tony talked about Monsoon like he was also an old friend. He also, allegedly, would have his seat slightly higher than the other two commentators to appear more important, and would withhold angle information from the others so he could be the guy in the know. I didn't know about Monsoon making light of sexual assault, gently caress him.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2020 23:24
|
|
|
Pope Corky the IX posted:From what I understand, there was also an issue with Tony being made aware of angles and such ahead of time and not letting the other commentators know, so he'd have time to come up with better lines. I imagine that would have had a lot to do with the dysfunctional and toxic nature of the company and everyone regularly featured trying to stand out at each other's expense.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2020 23:24
|
|
|
Vagabundo posted:I imagine that would have had a lot to do with the dysfunctional and toxic nature of the company and everyone regularly featured trying to stand out at each other's expense.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2020 23:48
|
|
|
The Croc posted:Mexico not sure but i think alot of the american wrestling there was aping FMW which i think was a massive influence on ECW so it was the trickle effect to concussions ahoy. well, true and not true, ecw was definitely aping fmw but also japanese deathmatch wrestling (and most deathmatch wrestling) had more gruesome, but ultimately safer, things going on than full home run baseball swing chairshots to the head. like barbed wire, explosions, light tubes, things that made matches really bloody and dangerous looking but (in theory) only left surface cuts and at worst some gnarly scarring. i think the hardcore wrestling thing of tables and chairshots is pretty distinctly american. e: deathmatches definitely have fuckin chairshots but its way less than, say, ecw or 1999 raw because they have the other things too. its just... you cant really put that much real blood on tv and get sponsors lol shiksa fucked around with this message at 00:41 on Oct 16, 2020 |
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2020 00:39
|
|
|
Do timekeepers have some secret inside purpose because how is that a job?
|
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2020 07:02
|
|
|
oh but seriously I posted:Do timekeepers have some secret inside purpose because how is that a job? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om01ZSIhDA8&t=170s
|
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2020 07:10
|
|
|
oh but seriously I posted:Do timekeepers have some secret inside purpose because how is that a job? On a live wrestling show making sure the match keeps to time (for commercials, for show timing, etc) would seem essential. Especially in AEW where matches have time limits.
|
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2020 07:29
|
|
|
Lamuella posted:On a live wrestling show making sure the match keeps to time (for commercials, for show timing, etc) would seem essential. Especially in AEW where matches have time limits. I thought they earpieced that to the ref now
|
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2020 07:32
|
|
|
oh but seriously I posted:Do timekeepers have some secret inside purpose because how is that a job? Who do you think keeps the official match records for future reference when some chyronist wants to verify that Jon Moxley had the fastest match in AEW history? You can't just leave that to Cagematch.
|
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2020 11:02
|
|
|
I Before E posted:Who do you think keeps the official match records for future reference when some chyronist wants to verify that Jon Moxley had the fastest match in AEW history? You can't just leave that to Cagematch. I thought that was GreenLanternFan
|
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2020 11:07
|
|
|
Vagabundo posted:I also vaguely remember Brain appeared onscreen with the Horsemen in the WWF, and gently caress me, just think about what could have been. You're probably thinking of when he managed The Brain Busters, which were Tully Blanchard and Arn Anderson, so he had half the horsemen. And I have thought of what could have been if those two hadn't left, but instead Flair came in, and along with Mr. Perfect formed a new Four Horsemen, managed by Bobby. But since the Horsemen weren't a Vince Invention (TM) it probably would never have happened.
|
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2020 16:05
|
|
|
oh but seriously I posted:Do timekeepers have some secret inside purpose because how is that a job? That said, there are timekeepers in regulated legitimate combat sports, so yes, it's a job.
|
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2020 16:20
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 14:15 |
|
|
Why do so many of the wrestlers in NJPW have cauliflower ears?
|
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2020 16:36
|
|