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Hey all, I want to try sailing, particularly dinghy day sailing and (eventually) camping. Anyway, I'm examining the clubs in my area on the Mississippi Gulf Coast and would appreciate some advice. While I spent the last week reading and watching videos on sailing, dinghys, etc, I only started to look into area clubs today. Google only seems to turn up "yacht clubs"; is what what I should be looking for? They seem a little exclusive; I don't have any friends that do this and some of these clubs, based on their website, seem to require sponsorship and membership consideration. The most welcoming seems to be This yacht club in Ocean Springs, for three reasons: 1) They seem to be cheaper 2) they don't seem to require sponsors, they just mention that your application has to be reviewed and approved 3) they actually have a big "learn to sail now" button on the home page and section explaining why I should join their club, so they actually seem to want new members. Does anyone know of other resources/clubs/programs I might be able to look into? I'm looking for a safe way to both gain some training and try out boats before I buy, not join a country club. Still, the Ocean Springs sailing lessons seem like a good first step; looks like a couple hundred bucks could get me 8 hours of individual instruction. Maybe that plus some lake nearby that rents dinghys is all I need; get introduction with some professional instruction and then some safe rentals in a supervised environment? Jack B Nimble fucked around with this message at 01:16 on Oct 17, 2020 |
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Oct 17, 2020 00:40
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I'd recommend looking into ASA-certified sailing schools and starting there--get your ASA101 to learn the basics of sailing and also meet and talk to folks--the sailing instructor and the school will be excellent resources for going further with the hobby, whether it be local sailing clubs or even just people looking for cool people to crew on their boats for fun. A yacht club is usually going to be more oriented to people that already own boats. https://asa.com/find-sailing-school/
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Oct 17, 2020 01:08
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There's actually a business that does chartered sailing right here where I live, and they also offer ASA 101, 103, I think maybe 105? I had looked into that, yeah. They do not offer ASA 110, at least not according to their website. So is it not at all a big deal that 101 is for larger keel boats and I wanted a dinghy?
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Oct 17, 2020 01:16
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Jack B Nimble posted:There's actually a business that does chartered sailing right here where I live, and they also offer ASA 101, 103, I think maybe 105? I had looked into that, yeah. They do not offer ASA 110, at least not according to their website. So is it not at all a big deal that 101 is for larger keel boats and I wanted a dinghy? Learn the basics. Keel boats are easier for adults FWIU, so just take 101. Dinghy sailing is harder than it looks, especially if you're not a child. They're much easier to capsize, the isn't room for an instructor, and they can be unforgiving. Keel boats, amazingly, are more forgiving albeit less nimble in general. Plus, an instructor can be onboard and things happen more slowly.
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Oct 17, 2020 01:35
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Yacht clubs around the Gulf Coast tend to be a lot less pretentious than what one would expect. My dad was a member of the Buccaneer Yacht Club over in Mobile when I was growing up, and honestly, it was a lot of fun. Most clubs will also have a bulletin board for people looking for crew. That's a good way to meet people, and get experience sailing. There's a lot of good inter-club competition between the clubs in the GYA, with plenty of opportunity.
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Oct 17, 2020 01:40
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That all makes sense, and maybe I was over valuing the advantages of launching, recovering, trailering/storing, and single handling, a 10' dinghy over a 22' keel boat. As compared to, you know, the actual *sailing* part. I'll take ASA101 first, and talk with the instructor, there are certainly a lot more 20'-30' keel boats for sale around here than 10'-15' dinghys, and maybe that says something. I might have been bringing too much of a motorcyclist's mindset into this, where most people start too large and ignore the smaller bike that will build good fundamentals (and this is an argument I'd seen made online for dinghys).
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Oct 17, 2020 01:45
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Jack B Nimble posted:That all makes sense, and maybe I was over valuing the advantages of launching, recovering, trailering/storing, and single handling, a 10' dinghy over a 22' keel boat. As compared to, you know, the actual *sailing* part. If you were 8 years old, I'd agree. I assume you aren't. Dinghy sailing is brutal. They have zero space inside, the boom swings wicked fast, they're super tippy even with kids in them, and they have no weight below the water. A 25' keel boat can be downright relaxing to sail. Once you get the basics down, there are plenty of relatively easy to launch small keel boats that fit an actual adult and scoot right along. Hell, even a Boston Whaler Harpoon 4.6 or 5.2 can hold a couple people and is easily single handed. Sunfish are super common and fun. The standard for adult learning is the Wayfarer or Laser Stratos. Opti's and Laser Picos are way harder than they look. Chances are your ASA101 class will be a slow Hunter, Catalina, or similar. And yes, wrong mentality. Think about it like: which would you rather learn to drive in, an 83 Crown Vic station wagon or a Slingshot?
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Oct 17, 2020 05:06
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Partner and I are learning to dinghy sail at the moment - just getting ready for our second set of lessons, to RYA level 2. We did the last session in Laser Picos - they don't seem thaaaaat hard, though the wind was light and we both have kite surfing experience which I think helped us get used to things a bit quicker. Noone in our group capsized or did anything worse than sail around in confused circles though! It was a ton of fun and we can't wait to do more today. Long-term, she wants to race small things and windsurf, I want to work my way up to yachmaster and be a grizzled skipper; not sure how things will turn out but I'll keep posting about our journey.
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Oct 17, 2020 08:57
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Any club in the GYA is going to be less pretentious than your typical "yacht club." Good folks. I love going down and doing the Meigs on Thistles at Pensacola YC, I try and do it yearly, obvs couldn't this year though.
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Oct 17, 2020 14:39
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SharkyTM posted:The standard for adult learning is the Wayfarer I thought the Wayfarer and Sunfish were both dinghies ? Not the same kind as twitchy Laser Pico, but still a dinghy?
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Oct 17, 2020 15:27
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Jack B Nimble posted:I thought the Wayfarer and Sunfish were both dinghies ? Not the same kind as twitchy Laser Pico, but still a dinghy? Technically, the Wayfarer is a dinghy, but it's a 2-person dinghy. It's nothing like an Opti or Pico. I was suggesting small boats for once they learn the ropes on a keel boat. Sorry that wasn't clear.
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Oct 17, 2020 23:40
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I learned to sail on a Capri 16.5, which I guess is technically a dinghy but is pretty unlikely to dump you in the water compared to a Laser. It was good and honestly a great balance of responsive vs doesn't feel like it's gonna buck you with every gust. Otherwise, learning to sail on a small keelboat will be easier and slower, though a bit less exciting. Might as well try everything anyway, and ASA 101 will be plenty.
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Oct 17, 2020 23:57
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I learned to sail after moving to a quiet town and asking coworkers what the hell there was to do around here in the summer for fun, and was told if I was interested in sailing they knew a few boats looking for crew for racing. It wasn't difficult aside from the occasional yelling, and there was beer after every race. I've still never taken any kind of course. I'm going to eventually take some cruising courses as we're looking at chartering a boat for a vacation someday. I could see courses being useful for dinghies where you need to learn how to right them after turtling, but honestly it's really not that difficult. Crewing on a race boat will throw you into all kinds of conditions, and you won't be the one in charge - as long as you can keep your head about you and follow direction you'll be fine, and you'll learn a lot. People are always looking for crew, and most are happy to have anyone regardless of ability, and are willing to explain what they're doing, what they need you to do and why, etc. Plus it usually doesn't cost you anything other than a 'crewing' membership at the club, which are typically quite inexpensive.
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Oct 18, 2020 04:48
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I think you learn more crewing on a boat for a year than most cruisers do in five, particularly in a competitive fleet with spinnakers It's always amusing to tell crew "don't do that" and when they say "why?" you get to explain to them the one time that thing led to a chain of events led to a 5-figure repair Hadlock fucked around with this message at 09:46 on Oct 18, 2020 |
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Oct 18, 2020 09:41
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Hadlock posted:I think you learn more crewing on a boat for a year than most cruisers do in five, particularly in a competitive fleet with spinnakers I understand *why* ASA classes exist, to standardize curricula, etc. But yes, just getting on a raceboat for a series will teach you way more, if you're willing to pay attention, than learning "how to do something" by rote. Until I can verify otherwise, someone getting on a boat for the first time to go racing might as well have never been on a sailboat even if they've done ASA. Its simple safety. Case in point, we had a woman who by profession is a boat broker step onto the J88 yesterday wearing a Jenneau-branded Gill sweater. She didn't know what a tack line was and blew the halyard before the tack. We almost made that kite into a fish net.
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Oct 18, 2020 16:10
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Keep in mind that ASA101 and 103 are just beginning boat handling classes--each can be done in a weekend. ASA104 and 105 are about cruising planning, advanced routing, etc. 106 gets into heavy weather handling, radar usage, etc. So yes, if you're only planning on lake or coastal cruising, you can probably learn more practical boating skills in a summer on a crew than two weekends of courses. But if you're planning on doing multi-day sailing or getting your own boat, having taken courses up through ASA106 will much better prepare you for a wide variety of weather and situations that you will not encounter while racing. (anchoring is a whole set of skills, route planning involving anchorages and backups, etc)
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Oct 18, 2020 18:40
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Different people learn better in different ways, and a regimented class like ASA/US Sailing definitely serves a purpose. I’ve read the textbooks for both and they are good curricula. The instructor you get also makes a big difference. That said, I learned how to sail by buying a lovely old 26’ keelboat and just going for it. I also have spent several seasons racing on a variety of boats and getting my rear end handed to me. Those are probably the extreme ends of the spectrum, but you’ll probably learn the most about actually making a boat go doing either of those routes. If you have friends with a boat, a good middle road is buying and reading one of the intro texts and then going sailing and trying to apply that knowledge. Then go back and reread with some firsthand experience. Yacht clubs can vary widely in pretentiousness, the more relaxed ones are generally very cool and you can hang out and get on peoples’ boats for more chill sailing. Or find a more serious one and try to get on race boats. Sailing schools also often have a ‘club’ element for graduates that allows them to rent the school boats and socialize.
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Oct 18, 2020 22:08
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I kinda want to buy this https://vancouver.craigslist.org/van/boa/d/bowen-island-sailboat-cc-33/7214136966.html
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Oct 19, 2020 03:38
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsGYh8AacgY That’s all I can think of with that name. C&C makes good boats.
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Oct 19, 2020 05:10
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Get a reputable inspector to give it a once over at that price, but it's hard to gently caress up buying a C&C. I regularly race on two different 99s and they are phenomenal boats for what they are, cruisy-racers. e: missed the link. I'm personally skeptical of that electronics setup, however, given the breadth and detail of the description of the tackle, I'm okay with it as a boat, in general. Its hard to kill an Atomic 4 and you will be able to get parts until the heat death of the universe. Crunchy Black fucked around with this message at 12:02 on Oct 19, 2020 |
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Oct 19, 2020 11:58
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Offer $10 and don't go above $14 Better boats probably exist, if it had a diesel engine I'd probably say go for it. Gas will evaporate and sink and then explode, diesel won't hardly burn if it leaks, it's much safer in a bathtub than gas But yeah if you're gonna put a gas engine in a sailboat, atomic 4 is the way to go, great aftermarket support Rigging inspected in 2019, and last full survey in 2016 = expect to replace standing rigging that was probably installed in 2007, at a cost of about $$4200 all in. That's gonna be the next big job on that boat. That and maybe the rudder bearings. Buy a sewing machine and plan on reupholstering the entire interior, those v berth cushions/cover look original. Our '83 Catalina had the same pattern New upholstery and new standing rigging, with those two things probably worth $17. As is, pre covid market value probably $12k
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Oct 19, 2020 13:40
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Hadlock, I've literally never been on a boat that's had a rig failure and we beat the dogshit out of our J24s here. I've never considered standing rigging to be a wear item if its stranded or solid steel and isn't obviously visually compromised, is your experience different? (Agreed on all your other points though) e: just to make sure I'm clear, here, I race on 3204 which is still racing, as delivered, original owner, with the original spar and rigging and we've pitch poled that son'bitch twice just in the last decade. Tunes up and squares out just fine. Crunchy Black fucked around with this message at 17:52 on Oct 19, 2020 |
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Oct 19, 2020 17:46
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Crunchy Black posted:Get a reputable inspector to give it a once over at that price, but it's hard to gently caress up buying a C&C. Hah yeah a little bit light on the details about the electronics aren't they? Or rather there's probably not much there other than this GPS unit. Hadlock posted:Offer $10 and don't go above $14 Yeah read quite a bit bout the gas concern while googling the engine. I guess it speaks to how old this boat is that it still has a gas engine while the entire market eventually moved to diesel. It makes me a bit concerned. I guess uh... be very safe during refuelling, have a CO detector. Worth asking some questions of the owners about their ventilation setup and another reason to get a survey. If the engine ever went totally kaput could be worth replacing with a diesel one for safetys sake. Replacing the upholstery was definitely a clear near term fix. I have some friends that can sew and it would be pretty great if I could throw some money their way and could leverage their skills. Otherwise I might have to beg them for a tutorial.
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Oct 19, 2020 18:05
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Crunchy Black posted:Hadlock, I've literally never been on a boat that's had a rig failure and we beat the dogshit out of our J24s here. I've had wires fail in shroud wire rope both on a Catalina 30, and a Dufour 31 while we were sailing, both cruisers. Didn't cause a catastrophic failure, but definitely indicative of significant wear Russian Roulette lost a shroud on the final leg of rolex bbs 2019 (was not on that boat, but it is/was a sf boat), that was rod rigging though General rule of thumb is 15 years for 1x19, I'm not going to suggest the guy assume it's safe, although he could probably get another 5 years out of it, that's up to him. I personally don't trust any rigging that I don't know the age of, but that's just me Edit: that said, we did sail the Dufour 31 on what was probably the original 1974 rigging for three years before it physically started to wear out and I cut my hand, and then then one of the wires literally jumped off the boat (impressive pinging noise, it was blowing 18+, still heard it in the cockpit).... But we were ~5 miles offshore and it was not a lot of fun motor sailing the boat in 5' chop upwind back to Galveston. Would have been really nice if we'd replaced the rigging before, not after, $4500 is a lot for peace of mind, but at the same time, not Hadlock fucked around with this message at 22:07 on Oct 19, 2020 |
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Oct 19, 2020 22:01
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Crunchy Black posted:Hadlock, I've literally never been on a boat that's had a rig failure and we beat the dogshit out of our J24s here. I have seen rig failure on a shark at the spreaders (those shrouds were <15 years old) that brought down the mast, on another shark of unknown age snapped one racing in 25knots gusting to 35 (probably well past 30 years on the stays), a tazer 26 that snapped an outer stay and the mast went plop, an Olson 29 that forgot to release the running back stay on a tack and brought down the mast (not really the stays fault on this one). Check in with your insurance - in all the instances above, the masts were replaced by the insurance company with the exception of the one shark that the stays were >30 years. For the shark, they found that the stays had exceeded their lifespan and that's why the mast came down. They're considered a wear item by the insurance company. For what it's worth, we're replacing the entirety of our stays before putting our shark in the water next year. As far as I can tell, all but 2 are original... From 1964. And on a shark it'll cost <600CAD 
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Oct 20, 2020 01:17
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TrueChaos posted:
Nice and cheap insurance at that rate. There is no OEM for the J24 right now that is class-certified that is actively making hulls, spars or rigging. Basically unless you want to spend more than the cost of a brand new Melges 24, you're shipping your J to Waterline and having it remanufactured, and even then, you might as well just buy a new hull.
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Oct 20, 2020 02:13
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Yeah we're lucky we have a place that makes stuff for sharks, including masts. A brand spanking new mast with internal halyards, stays, etc., only runs $4K. The boat including trailer, motor, and sails was 1800$
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Oct 20, 2020 02:22
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Hadlock posted:
 I bet that made a noise. TrueChaos posted:I have seen rig failure on a shark at the spreaders (those shrouds were <15 years old) that brought down the mast, on another shark of unknown age snapped one racing in 25knots gusting to 35 (probably well past 30 years on the stays), a tazer 26 that snapped an outer stay and the mast went plop, an Olson 29 that forgot to release the running back stay on a tack and brought down the mast (not really the stays fault on this one). On J24s we have a particular improvement that's called a thru-bar that takes the spreaders and joins them through the mast. To my knowledge a properly installed update there, hasn't failed since they came into vogue. [Read: became class legal]. We're also talking about a J-boat here so the rig is hilariously overbuilt.
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Oct 20, 2020 17:51
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Another J105 lost their rig that day, Godot, as well as one of the cats that was racing. I don’t remember the exact circumstances but I think they were both straight failures and not the result of collisions. A friend of mine was hit at the chainplate and lost her rig a couple years ago. Anyway standing rigging does wear out, but there are also a lot of boats with 20+ year old cable that haven’t failed yet...but you’re rolling against a higher and higher check all the time.
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Oct 20, 2020 19:57
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Welp. Season's over. Spent the weekend delivering the boat to it's winter layup near Arendal. Start of the trip was... interesting. Hit fog thick as soup near the narrowest bits around Drøbak.  And of course I ran into all the big passenger liners and a container ship in the fog. Much honking, and a degree of stress, but now I really got value for the money for splurging on the radar. Really takes it from impossible to completely fine. Had fairly calm weather and kept good pace most of the day. 6.5 hours at between 18 and 22 knots brought me to Risør. Where I spent the night:  The next day I only had 1.5 hours to go in completely flat waters @23 knots. Smooth as butter. And as I turned the engine off for the last time, I had clocked precisely 100 engine hours:  Pleased with that.
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Oct 20, 2020 21:33
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uh oh I'm gonna have a look at the boat on Saturday
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Oct 21, 2020 05:54
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Had the boat surveyed. Basically not *much* wrong with it for a boat from 1978 aside from a bunch of minor scattered things that should be replaced and/or kept an eye on for if they get worse. The one core significant thing that needs to be replaced is that the wiring is not marine grade and the lackadaisical battery setup was not up to regulatory standards.
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Nov 13, 2020 02:13
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You gonna diy or pay to have the electrical done?
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Nov 13, 2020 02:28
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sharkytm posted:You gonna diy or pay to have the electrical done? I dunno could make sense to DIY and have this surveyor have a look over it after the fact and confirm that I've not created a ticking time bomb death trap.
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Nov 13, 2020 02:30
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I don’t think there really was ‘marine-grade’ wiring when they built your boat, I don’t see tinned wiring showing up consistently until boats built in the 90s or newer. I don’t know what your electrical abilities are, rewiring a boat is largely tedious but not terribly difficult. 90% of it is running the wires in awkward places and securing them in awkward ways. It’s pretty straightforward if you’re just replicating the existing wiring. Electrical fires are I believe the number one cause of boat fires, and I’ve seen many shocking (  ) wiring disasters that were lurking to burn somebody’s poo poo down. I almost had my own boat burn down due to lovely PO wiring that I didn’t notice, if I didn’t happen to be on the boat when it decided to let go it would have been a problem.If the wiring is just old but otherwise good then it can still last a while. You’re going to want to give it an extremely thorough inspection though, make sure nothing weird is hiding.
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Nov 14, 2020 18:00
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Yeah I asked her if this would have been original wiring but she said no it would have been good proper stuff at the time. I think what happened was over the years, various owners installed custom extra fans, speakers and such and then just used nonsense random wiring. Lots of the stuff does seem pretty minor (eg. "Battery is not in a box! This is not to code!!!" how hard can it be to put a battery in a box?) so I am leaning to doing it myself. The other thing mentioned in her notes was a number of deck <-> hardware interface points that could be end of life and may need to be refitted. The other night I googled how that is done and that didn't seem terribly scary either. She didn't call that stuff out in her notes with the same level of concern as the wiring. Surveyor was not a mechanic so didn't go deep into the engine. Mentioned some corrosion at some parts. The main thing I was concerned about was total show stopper wildly expensive, "this whole boat isn't worth it" type things gone wrong with hull, mast, rigging and such, but doesn't seem like there's any of that. Just be to be extra, extra clear I explicitly asked her if there were problems of that scale and she said no. lol. Femtosecond fucked around with this message at 21:07 on Nov 14, 2020 |
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Nov 14, 2020 21:03
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I've had a literal rigging salesman (e: from Seldén, IIRC) tell me that for people who cruise up and down the Baltic coast less than 100 nm from land in summer (as most people do here), it's not worth it replacing the standing rigging preventatively. He said that as long as you look through it carefully at least once a year and there's no visible damage (e.g. broken strands in the wiring), and you take care to tension it correctly, there's no particularly good reason to replace it. It doesn't have unlimited lifespan, of course, but with the rate of wear most boats in this category sees, it can do fine for decades beyond the usual 20 years or 20k nm recommendation. This was in the context of boats from the 1970's. Of course things are different for actual bluewater sailors though - the Baltic in general and the Stockholm archipelago in particular is a rather forgiving place in summer (except when it comes to navigation). TheFluff fucked around with this message at 23:00 on Nov 15, 2020 |
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Nov 15, 2020 22:53
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We had something come up recently and couldn't check on the boat for two weeks. My mom was in town and we went to show her the new boat slip Some sort of issue with the bilge pump wiring, looks like it happened between the battery and the bilge pump switch. Water about 2 inches above the floorboards. Marina let me borrow their emergency bilge pump, took an 1800 gph about 20 minutes to drain the boat back down below the floorboards; pumped another 100 gallons by hand Came back the next day and after everything had a chance to slosh around some more, pumped out another 100ish gallons by hand Moral of the story is you buy a 70 pint (8.75 gal) dehumidifier, have it drain out of the sink, not directly into the bilge There is a butt joint in the bilge for the pump just under the floorboards, and the west marine by my house is out of ancor 14-16ga heat shrink butt joint crimp connectors, so manually pumping poo poo out until the chandlery by my house opens and I can get some from them Boat needs it's packing gland tightened, slightly faster drip there than I would like Re: Boat rewiring chat Rewired a 1974 Dufour 31 (blue water french sailboat) , not terribly hard, just time consuming to trace every wire, and unfuck what the previous three owners did in the breaker panel. I think I still have a copy of the back of that breaker panel. Total rusty bird's-nest of wire. Previous owner removed the brass lights on the main bulkhead and twisted the wires together where they came out of the wall, must have been the heat, took us an hour to figure out they were shorting themselves
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Nov 16, 2020 02:44
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The first boat I lived on was an Islander 30. Came home one night and there was a funny rushing sound in the cockpit, went down below to the floorboards just starting to float. Boat had a water inlet with a hose from the dock so we didn’t have to always fill the tank. That had cracked apart on the inside of the boat so we were getting full hose pressure into the boat. Naturally the bilge pump float switch was also dead. Took at least 15 minutes for the pump to empty the bilge after I set it to manual. That was a close one. RE: packing glands, read this.
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Nov 17, 2020 02:34
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Trip report: Got tired of going to the boat every 24 hours to pump out 30 gallons of water by hand Wrapped a trash bag around the stuffing box and attacked the whole thing with an entire roll of electrical tape Came back 48 hours later, pumped out less than 8 gallons of water Sadly I have too much poo poo going on right now to properly deal with my extremely slowly sinking boat, will worry about this next weekend, and pump it out every two days until then Typical-boat-owner-problem.txt Edit: pro tip west marine sells two sizes of manual hand pumps, unless your boat is under 22', you need the larger size; consider it critical safety equipment and don't cheap out on getting the small one, it's really only designed for pumping out dinghies Hadlock fucked around with this message at 11:37 on Nov 21, 2020 |
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Nov 21, 2020 11:33
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