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Atrocious Joe posted:https://twitter.com/brhodes/status/1318180765000060928?s=20 This is precisely what I've been saying for years regarding the "Biden is the lesser evil" arguments. It's malevolence tempered by incompetence versus competent imperialism. There is no "lesser evil"
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Oct 19, 2020 22:36
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https://twitter.com/BenjaminNorton/status/1187167870691807232
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Oct 19, 2020 22:48
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joepinetree posted:This is precisely what I've been saying for years regarding the "Biden is the lesser evil" arguments. It's malevolence tempered by incompetence versus competent imperialism. There is no "lesser evil" you said it yourself obama is 3/3 (honduras, brazil, ???) and trump is 0/2 lmao (of course, i dont buy into supporting a lesser evil when they are both great evils regardless)
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Oct 19, 2020 22:49
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what's the 3rd again- Brazil, Honduras, ?
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Oct 19, 2020 22:51
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Ukraine? Or was there a third Latin American coup?
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Oct 19, 2020 22:53
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I was thinking Libya but then you'd probably count Syria as an L
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Oct 19, 2020 22:54
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Venezuela and Bolivia were probably in the cards for Obama too but they unravel because of trump. Imagine Obama carefully laying out the pieces to get all his friends the oil and lithium and trumps incompetence screwing it up
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Oct 19, 2020 23:01
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3/3 for latin american coups idk what the third is if any
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Oct 19, 2020 23:03
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Cao Ni Ma posted:Venezuela and Bolivia were probably in the cards for Obama too but they unravel because of trump.
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Oct 19, 2020 23:04
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https://twitter.com/GramsciFag69/status/1318064931959377920
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Oct 19, 2020 23:14
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https://twitter.com/ewarren/status/1196519189583974402
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Oct 19, 2020 23:17
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comedyblissoption posted:3/3 for latin american coups idk what the third is if any brazil
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Oct 19, 2020 23:19
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is it ecuador w/ lenin moreno
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Oct 19, 2020 23:21
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https://twitter.com/Licualopodo/status/1318160822414282758
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Oct 19, 2020 23:35
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anyone got that elon tweet handy
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Oct 19, 2020 23:56
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comedyblissoption posted:i mean competent imperialism vs incompetent imperialism implies a lesser evil The third is paraguay in 2012. Lugo was impeached in record time over some bullshit. And the coup in venezuela wasn't successful but the unsuccessful coups still killed a bunch of people.
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Oct 20, 2020 00:02
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MSDOS KAPITAL posted:anyone got that elon tweet handy he deleted it two days later because he's a nickel-stinking pork-man but the internet doesn't forget
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Oct 20, 2020 00:08
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also Bolivia was a successful coup. it didn’t stick but the coup itself did great
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Oct 20, 2020 00:21
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CharlestheHammer posted:also Bolivia was a successful coup. success is measured in how much american liberals recognize the coup government as legitimate
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Oct 20, 2020 00:25
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CharlestheHammer posted:also Bolivia was a successful coup. You can substitute "successful long term" if you prefer.
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Oct 20, 2020 00:28
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the military juntas used to be measured in decades
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Oct 20, 2020 00:45
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Atrocious Joe posted:https://twitter.com/camilateleSUR/status/1318208181261271040?s=20 
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Oct 20, 2020 00:59
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he was only 0.78 points off
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Oct 20, 2020 01:02
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Oct 20, 2020 01:05
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There's a cable that was released by wikileaks* from 2009 on the plan to find a pretext to impeach Fernando Lugo in Paraguay. That is the key to success of the Obama coups: they realize that just overthrowing the government nowadays will likely just get your coup reversed, so it's a long term plan to eat away at the support of the left. Plan is set in motion in 2009, slowly chipped away at the coalition that elected Lugo, so that when there was an opportunity they got rid of him. Venezuela in 2002 is a great example of the opposite: getting the leader arrested is nothing if they still have their base of support and they are willing to come out to defend the government. So you find some people in government and in the judiciary who are friendly to the US, feed them a constant drip of information, get them to prosecute everyone even at the lowest levels, until you make people afraid to stick their necks out for the leader. The coup in Bolivia may have succeeded in getting rid of Morales, but because of the support of MAS they couldn't hold on to it. Had they tried to coup Lula in 2010 probably the same thing would have happened. But now for the first time in decades the labor party in Brazil may end up not electing a single mayor of a state capital in Brazil in next month's election, because Brazilian politics essentially requires coalitions and the judiciary has made it pretty clear that anyone aligned with the PT will be a targed. And at the end of the day, it doesn't matter that it was a ticky tack prosecution. What Lula was guilty of, even if you believe every single word of the mostly evidence free prosecution, is clearly less than anything that Joe Biden has done. But he was convicted, so now Obama admin officials can decry what a shame for the fight against corruption that Lula was released. * edit: and when you realize that the entire reason we know of US involvement in Honduras, Brazil and Paraguay is wikileaks and the intercept, the whole effort to delegitimize them as Russian assets by the liberals is pretty clear. joepinetree has issued a correction as of 01:14 on Oct 20, 2020 |
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Oct 20, 2020 01:05
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The brazilian coup was the best executed one and incredibly impactful, just a slow frog boil and ramp up of selective targeting of the left by an 'impartial' judiciary, takeover of the government by ousting the leader and installing an neolib technocrat dictatorship leading upto actually jailing the opposition during an election and getting away with it. An intervention masterpiece. The PT deserves blame for their neoliberal turn though, I don't think the US could have reversed Brazil if they had consistently governed as socialists The proof is in the pudding in the contrasting fortunes of PT running an election without Lula and MAS running an election without Morales. Although I don't know what the extent of election tampering in the brazilian election was mila kunis has issued a correction as of 01:30 on Oct 20, 2020 |
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Oct 20, 2020 01:25
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Yeah and it's clear that electoralism isn't the winner in Bolivia, it's a vote after incredible pressure martialed by leftwing institutions and political groups backed by a good chunk of the working population to make sure that any attempt to steal the election would lead to a complete shutdown of Bolivian industry. Anyone who wants to replicate that resiliency elsewhere better get used to the idea that you have to figure out how to organize a general strike.
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Oct 20, 2020 01:30
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https://twitter.com/isgoodrum/status/1318349965865832449 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYX7koMKkPY
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Oct 20, 2020 01:38
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lol christ I love seeing how interconnected all these rich assholes are. Of course the guy who funded the HRF is the cousin of Leopold Lopez. Of course.
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Oct 20, 2020 01:51
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https://twitter.com/statedeptspox/status/1318263944969179146?s=20 https://twitter.com/WHAAsstSecty/status/1318265947287846913?s=20
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Oct 20, 2020 02:08
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If south america was capable of running itself america wouldnt have to intervene all the time
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Oct 20, 2020 02:40
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Dreylad posted:lol christ Mayhaps you knew this but one of the cofounders of amnesty international was one of the guys who ratted out fred hampton's residence in chicago to the fbi
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Oct 20, 2020 03:16
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Sheng-Ji Yang posted:https://twitter.com/isgoodrum/status/1318349965865832449 lol 
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Oct 20, 2020 03:23
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cope https://twitter.com/WHAAsstSecty/status/1318270665238237184?s=20
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Oct 20, 2020 03:42
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Dreylad posted:Yeah and it's clear that electoralism isn't the winner in Bolivia, it's a vote after incredible pressure martialed by leftwing institutions and political groups backed by a good chunk of the working population to make sure that any attempt to steal the election would lead to a complete shutdown of Bolivian industry. That and using mass mobilization to shut down transportation/energy corridors. The key take away (the same thing that worked for Gandhi in the aftermath of the Salt March) is you need economic leverage if you want political leverage. Electoralism is about people surrendering their leverage with the hope that those in power will have mercy. This election just confirmed they already won. That said, I hope those mass movements stay alive and independent in case Acre/MAS start to get ideas. Ecuador and Chile are next up. ---------------------- That said, it was pretty impressive to see how pretty much every facet of the Brazilian political establish/judicial system work together to tear up the PT. It is an instructive lesson. Ardennes has issued a correction as of 03:56 on Oct 20, 2020 |
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Oct 20, 2020 03:53
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The REAL Goobusters posted:https://twitter.com/oppenheimera/status/1318171008029872129?s=21 andres copenheimer
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Oct 20, 2020 04:09
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Ardennes posted:That said, it was pretty impressive to see how pretty much every facet of the Brazilian political establish/judicial system work together to tear up the PT. It is an instructive lesson. honestly, the biggest argument against Lula was always this at the peak of his popularity he could have pushed for major reforms that would have massively levelled the playing field in favor of labor, but as one of the best criticisms of the time had it back then, he was charmed by his own image and didn't regard that the economic momentum, once gone, would leave himself and the party bereft of any significant popular support with the class conciliation accord he himself presided over the liberal and conservative forces of the country banded together pretty quickly when the opportunity appeared and it is pretty goddamned how bad PT hosed everything leftwise when a party that could mobilize general, national strikes and halt the country had a couple of weeks of significant mobilization for Dilma to stay then... just crumbled entirely. IMHO it is the greatest evidence in our recent history about how it is completely unsustainable - down to personal cost, as many in the party got owned massively - to be a left party that abdicates from class politics
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Oct 20, 2020 04:19
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dead gay comedy forums posted:honestly, the biggest argument against Lula was always this Admittedly, MAS was a close runner up until the people themselves came out in force and simply wouldn't give up for long. Morales and the rest of MAS were hapless for months. It is why I am also pretty disinterested in any political group in the US that is focused on working on the mechanics of political power rather than direct mobilization (nearly all of them).
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Oct 20, 2020 04:27
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Liberals have to learn the hard way that rules only matter when they are enforced. This is probably why most of the left resurgence is coming from minority groups, who have to become intimately aware of this to survive.
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Oct 20, 2020 04:36
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The other big mistake PT did was to believe that the institutions would save them. To fight charges of corruption they gave unprecedented powers to the judiciary. The attorney general was selected in a vote by the members of the judiciary in a vote, they approved the law that gave the judiciary the power to cut deals and reduce sentences, etc. because they believed that if they were seen as fighting corruption extra hard they'd be fine. Meanwhile, when Bolsonaro took over, he appointed a personal favorite to attorney general, transferred the federal police chief in charge of investigating his sons, and cancelled the Lava Jato probe under the argument that there is no corruption in Brazil anymore.
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Oct 20, 2020 05:40
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