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I said come in! posted:Reading the official forum thread for the community post, and lol at the people defending it. The devs promised they were funded to completion and had all of the money they needed. They've been lying this entire time to everyone, yet somehow this raises no red flags. They streamed with this stuff for years and not a peep about "oh yeah we're gonna have to throw this in the woodchipper later and replace it all." What a mess.
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Oct 17, 2020 01:37
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| # ? May 26, 2024 19:08 |
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I've never ever made a game and I know that's how you're supposed to make a game especially one like this.
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Oct 17, 2020 01:39
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Groovelord Neato posted:hahah that happened with Vanguard too? That's basic poo poo how did that happen twice? He was probably only around for the loving up part and not the fixing. It's like poetry it rhymes.
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Oct 17, 2020 02:01
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Sachant posted:They streamed with this stuff for years and not a peep about "oh yeah we're gonna have to throw this in the woodchipper later and replace it all." What a mess. Apparently they just now realized they would have to start over from scratch THIS YEAR. The entirety of Pantheon started over just in the last few months.
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Oct 17, 2020 05:31
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Everything is fine. We're all going to be okay. Pantheon is going to be okay.
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Oct 17, 2020 05:41
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Groovelord Neato posted:hahah that happened with Vanguard too? That's basic poo poo how did that happen twice? people with the skills to build tools are expensive. That's money they could use on cheap level designers to brute force the hosed process!
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Oct 17, 2020 07:11
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This is the legacy that brad leaves behind. Not with a ding, but with a fart, inhaled.
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Oct 17, 2020 10:11
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insider posted:This is literally the same problem that Vanguard had. They didn't have any tools at all to implement content. Brad learned nothing, but that's no surprise. I think that's the point; it's just a repetition of a scam, they weren't trying to 'learn' anything. Maybe they had intentions of making an actual game originally, but after seeing this yesterday I googled a bit about McQuaid and he 'looted' a third of the original funding off the rip. The game was dead that moment, but somehow it's 5+ years later and people still defending team, as they release updates few times a year with absurd reasoning on how they got here/what the 'future' is. The future is trying to wring the last dollar from some EQ/MMO fan by inventing ever more outlandish things to continue the scam. This is literally a blueprint being followed by other crowdfunded MMO's scamming people as well.
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Oct 17, 2020 13:03
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Visionary Realms a couple years ago: "We already have enough money to complete the game, but give us more money and we'll finish it even faster!" Visionary Realms today:  A few people tried to go back and read the old newsletters to compare the messaging about funding then vs now. Visionary Realms said all of that content is no longer publicly available because, get this, "it was all hardcoded" hahahaha 
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Oct 17, 2020 13:19
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I mean...this poo poo is just insanity. "The ONLY DOOMSDAY SCENARIO is when you stop sending me money." Certainly lying to your backers is some form of fraud no? I guess not, when all you need to do, for 5+ years, is continue the act of building a game.
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Oct 17, 2020 14:46
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I just don't understand. Why is it so hard to just recreate Everquest in 2020? Why can no team seem to be able to do what young college-level kids did 20 years ago with none of the experience, money, or technology? Am I just missing something? Everything I've seen from Pantheon looks like a traditional MMO where you pick a class, throw some spells on your hotbar, and tab-target spam abilities on static mobs with 1998 level animations. What is so unique about this game that requires an unreal amount of time to create? Is the term "incompetence" all we really have to describe this cluster?
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Oct 17, 2020 19:38
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Cardboard Fox posted:I just don't understand. Because there's no market for this game and it's not exciting to do. This ensures corporate money is out, and passionate people with actual skills are out as well. Just play Baldur's Gate 3
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Oct 17, 2020 19:43
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please knock Mom! posted:Because there's no market for this game and it's not exciting to do. This ensures corporate money is out, and passionate people with actual skills are out as well. Just play Baldur's Gate 3 How is there no market for a game like this, but there is apparently a fertile market to be scammed on the promises of such games, to where they fund multiple opiate addictions or whatever the gently caress? I get the 'corporate money' is out, and has been out since World of Warcraft sort of monopolized the genre for all companies not named Square Enix. This is not unique to MMOs nor video games on the whole of course, just look at Hollywood. The most fun I've had on an MMO since I guess when battlegrounds were new on WoW, has been playing Return of Reckoning the Warhammer Online private server. And that game is obviously very old; how the gently caress is there not ONE single capable team building/built successful PvP MMO? It baffles me for sure, especially when there's multiple kickstarter MMO scams- including from the DAOC/Warhammer people, with Camelot Unchained basically being the PvP verison of Pantheon.
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Oct 17, 2020 19:57
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Its easier to create dreams.txt then it is to deliver an actual game. That is all Pantheon, Star Citizen, Camelot Unchained, Crowfall, Ashes of Creation are.
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Oct 17, 2020 20:40
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Cardboard Fox posted:I just don't understand. I think it comes down to the complexity of the engines that modern games use, and the fact all the good developers that can use those modern engines to the fullest are being paid boatloads at the big gaming developers already. I think most of the developers on these projects are definitely the bottom of the barrel ones. I also think its a leadership issue because I think even with below average devs you are right that they should be able to at least pull EQ in 1999 off. The leadership for all these projects are consistently terrible, with shifting priorities and visions for the game. The leadership also seems inexperienced in actually how to get a game to the finish line. While the guys who made EQ were young they had all shipped a game before. The only one of these kickstarted games that seems to have clear leadership is the MLM guy heading Ashes of Creation ironically. And because of that it seems like the one that is making the most actual progress. The rest seem to be completely winging it.
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Oct 18, 2020 00:48
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Cardboard Fox posted:Why is it so hard to just recreate Everquest in 2020? Because none of them are actually making EverQuest. They're making "EverQuest, but..." and everything after the but is their own personal design genius on how they're going to revolutionize things and revitalize classic MMOs or whatever. See THE PANTHEON DIFFERENCE (since removed from their website). You can't get your armchair designer certificate if you just make EQ with better graphics. Not enough wheel reinvention.
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Oct 18, 2020 01:11
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Assuming implementing all that stuff didn't go great
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Oct 18, 2020 03:18
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The only game to really capture Everquest, is Minions of Mirth. This was a MMO that also had a single player offline mode. Unfortunately all of its data was stored on a single hard drive, because the devs were old school as gently caress in every regard, and an extremely unfortunately set of circumstances caused that hard drive to die horribly. The devs made a single 1 sentence post about it and then disappeared into the wind. To my knowledge it is impossible to obtain a full version public release of Minions of Mirth to play offline, but there is an outdated demo available still. Purchasing the game, and playing online, are no longer possible.
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Oct 18, 2020 17:13
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Sachant posted:Because none of them are actually making EverQuest. They're making "EverQuest, but..." and everything after the but is their own personal design genius on how they're going to revolutionize things and revitalize classic MMOs or whatever. See THE PANTHEON DIFFERENCE (since removed from their website). Even before it turned out they didn't know how to make a game this was the big reason it was never going to get done. The people that are following the game want a modernized EQ they don't want all this extra bullshit.
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Oct 18, 2020 17:44
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Groovelord Neato posted:Even before it turned out they didn't know how to make a game this was the big reason it was never going to get done. The people that are following the game want a modernized EQ they don't want all this extra bullshit. Yeah, I really never understood their angle here. Let's get Brad McQuaid and post everywhere using the words "EverQuest" and "Vanguard" wherever we can for our Kickstarter. Let's post on FoH and P99 forums and get all the old EQ heads hyped about a new EverQuest. Okay wait now that we have you, don't worry! This game won't be like EQ! See? Here's all the things we're doing differently. Aren't you excited for those? EverQuest? What's that? Oh no, we won't be like that silly old game. We're a modern experience!
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Oct 18, 2020 21:56
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I'm not even sure you can get everyone to agree on what a modernized EQ looks like anyway. Just look at the split between p99 and the official TLP servers. Their differences are rather small.
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Oct 19, 2020 09:19
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it's been fun watching the subreddit for this slowly die. you get banned for posting any kind of dissent and the people who moderate it appear to be absolutely deranged devotees who spend all of their time theorycrafting about what classes might do what, the world, endlessly posting banal polls about things like camps and mana regen, etc. it was active enough two years ago and now it goes days without any submission except for the things three or four lunatics just post over and over. it's really funny and i can't wait for the thread when they finally admit the game will never come out and they lied about everything. they were close with that last update, it's inevitable.
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Oct 19, 2020 15:42
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I bet Smedley could save this game
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Oct 19, 2020 16:59
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Frog Act posted:it's been fun watching the subreddit for this slowly die. you get banned for posting any kind of dissent and the people who moderate it appear to be absolutely deranged devotees who spend all of their time theorycrafting about what classes might do what, the world, endlessly posting banal polls about things like camps and mana regen, etc. it was active enough two years ago and now it goes days without any submission except for the things three or four lunatics just post over and over. it's really funny and i can't wait for the thread when they finally admit the game will never come out and they lied about everything. they were close with that last update, it's inevitable. It sounds nuttier than the Elden Ring sub.
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Oct 19, 2020 17:13
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Frog Act posted:it's been fun watching the subreddit for this slowly die. you get banned for posting any kind of dissent and the people who moderate it appear to be absolutely deranged devotees who spend all of their time theorycrafting about what classes might do what, the world, endlessly posting banal polls about things like camps and mana regen, etc. it was active enough two years ago and now it goes days without any submission except for the things three or four lunatics just post over and over. it's really funny and i can't wait for the thread when they finally admit the game will never come out and they lied about everything. they were close with that last update, it's inevitable. Not to mention that most of the submissions are from dead game content creators self-promoting their videos discussing any tiny morsel of information they can get from the devs, contributing nothing of value in the process. Pantheon has the most ridiculously skewed ratio of "new information worth talking about" (almost none) to "people making videos talking about it" (droves).
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Oct 19, 2020 18:53
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Pantheon: The Fallen Have Arisen but then they fell down again.
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Oct 20, 2020 03:29
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Help we've fallen but our modest team can't realistically rise back up in a reasonable timeframe.
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Oct 20, 2020 03:41
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I said come in! posted:The only game to really capture Everquest, is Minions of Mirth. This was a MMO that also had a single player offline mode. Unfortunately all of its data was stored on a single hard drive, because the devs were old school as gently caress in every regard, and an extremely unfortunately set of circumstances caused that hard drive to die horribly. The devs made a single 1 sentence post about it and then disappeared into the wind. To my knowledge it is impossible to obtain a full version public release of Minions of Mirth to play offline, but there is an outdated demo available still. Purchasing the game, and playing online, are no longer possible. I made quite a few quests for Minions of Mirth! I did them back when the game was still alpha/beta. Pretty much every quest in the Sewers under the city (I think called Trinst) I made. At the time the game was being made by 1 dev and his wife was promoting the game. At least that was the story I got. I had a lot of fun making the quests. I made a number of them that spanned through multiple zones too. Not surprised to hear about Pantheon though.
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Oct 20, 2020 04:03
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Essential posted:I made quite a few quests for Minions of Mirth! I did them back when the game was still alpha/beta. Pretty much every quest in the Sewers under the city (I think called Trinst) I made. At the time the game was being made by 1 dev and his wife was promoting the game. At least that was the story I got. I had a lot of fun making the quests. I made a number of them that spanned through multiple zones too. That is super awesome! Do you happen to still have the full version by any chance?
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Oct 20, 2020 06:02
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I said come in! posted:The only game to really capture Everquest, is Minions of Mirth. This was a MMO that also had a single player offline mode. Unfortunately all of its data was stored on a single hard drive, because the devs were old school as gently caress in every regard, and an extremely unfortunately set of circumstances caused that hard drive to die horribly. The devs made a single 1 sentence post about it and then disappeared into the wind. To my knowledge it is impossible to obtain a full version public release of Minions of Mirth to play offline, but there is an outdated demo available still. Purchasing the game, and playing online, are no longer possible. Wow the site is still up, frozen in time on the day it disappeared
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Oct 20, 2020 08:02
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Hexel posted:I bet Smedley could save this game Dude's working for Amazon. They're not looking so good on the gaming front either.
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Oct 20, 2020 08:48
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Freakazoid_ posted:Dude's working for Amazon. They're not looking so good on the gaming front either. Yeah :/ They have been around for like 4 years now and have yet to ship a single game, and just canceled one game.
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Oct 20, 2020 17:16
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It's almost like "The Vision™" was bad game design from the start. Who could have guessed?
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Oct 20, 2020 17:36
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I said come in! posted:Yeah :/ They have been around for like 4 years now and have yet to ship a single game, and just canceled one game. Technically they did ship a game and also co-develop another game that shipped but both were so bad they blew them out of existence.
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Oct 20, 2020 18:05
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Givin posted:It's almost like "The Vision™" was bad game design from the start. Who could have guessed? It wasn't though. EQ is great. It's all of these projects that take that and try to second guess it all that are failing.
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Oct 20, 2020 19:36
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I said come in! posted:That is super awesome! Do you happen to still have the full version by any chance? Unfortunately I don't. I can't even remember the last time I played it, probably 2008ish. I went on a bit of a nostalgia trip last night looking at various forums etc. and youtube. Pretty neat seeing people completing the quests I made. One of them involved an npc name Rtharo the Plaguebringer and he was pretty well known for being difficult to beat. It was really fun doing all that stuff. I found this the other day when nostalgia hit for Everquest: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLw8ksW8vY8. It's nothing mind blowing but it is cool to see what people are working on. I think if someone made an EQ successor with newer graphics and just a few QoL features it could be built reasonable fast by a small team. The problem is always feature creep and too many cooks in the kitchen.
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Oct 20, 2020 21:03
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Sachant posted:It wasn't though. EQ is great. It's all of these projects that take that and try to second guess it all that are failing. I think EQ is different kinds of great to different kinds of people. It has a ton of warts, but yeah, fundamentally my favorite broke brain game. I played Live from Kunark thru PoP, Project 1999, and now The Al'Kabor Project and they were/are all great in different ways. I think they can be summarized as roughly: Live -> I was 15yo and clueless. Everything was a mystery. Killing rats and bats in Freeport and Qeynos is the single most nostalgic thing I can imagine. P1999 -> I played the same content as live, but I was less clueless. The wiki has everything. I had a lot of fun with the leveling game, hanging out with goons, but breaking into raiding was miserable. Worse now, with green. first-to-engage poopsocking and conga lines for soon-to-be-removed items is super unfun to me. TAKP -> I'm more wizened about mechanics than ever. There's very little mystery, far different than when I first became an EQ player, but raiding is fun because it's accessible. All of the ways you can break this game by exploiting geometry and subtle mechanics is amazing. There are so many half-assed systems in EQ. Crafting, useless skills (alcohol tolerance, begging, pick-pocketing, poison making, languages...), message boards (mercifully killed early in the game, but they were cool), tons of broken quests, boats never worked right, etc. I don't mean that as a criticism, that was part of what made it so awesome. Project M letting players be random low level mobs? Awesome. I do wonder how much of EQ's success was throwing poo poo at the wall and rolling with what stuck, and how much of it was that large portions of the fundamentals were lifted from MUDs. Certainly they could never replicate The Vision with Vanguard, much less Pantheon now.
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Oct 20, 2020 21:58
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Super excited to play Pantheon: Rise of the Falling!
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Oct 22, 2020 17:10
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lmfao I was wondering why there were 80 new posts.
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Oct 22, 2020 22:05
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The thing is, they're not exactly wrong that this poo poo needed to happen especially for an MMO. I can't even begin to imagine how this would have played out if they continued... But what gets me is that people still sucking Mcquaid's dick like he didn't say that it was fine. Not building these dynamic systems for people that don't have programming knowledge to use is a completely negligent act and whoever's decision (if it wasn't Mcquaid's) it was to build the game up like this should totally be held accountable.
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Oct 24, 2020 08:05
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