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Doctor Jeep posted:I'm guessing deradicalization
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Oct 21, 2020 09:37
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Doctor Jeep posted:jesus christ there's a long history of the rhetoric of justifying war, colonialism, and genocide in the name of protecting the victims from their own culture using lurid descriptions of barbaric behaviour, and you specifically used one deployed by our own cultures in our own lifetime to justify an ongoing war. they aren't unrelated at all, and you aren't using them in an unrelated fashion, you are using them in precisely the same fashion. oddly enough it isn't even one china itself seems to be using in this case, you just sort of decided to revive a neoconservative talking point on your own initiative. china has deployed it in the context of tibet, but is more interested in justifying its uyghur policy in terms of anti-terrorism instead. words alone aren't enough to convey my contempt for whatever the gently caress you think you are doing here Hodgepodge has issued a correction as of 09:45 on Oct 21, 2020 |
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Oct 21, 2020 09:43
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Honestly, I'm just glad whomever is harvesting organs is killing the victim BEFORE harvesting the organs. Interesting artistic choices in the film 'The Laundromat.'
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Oct 21, 2020 09:44
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Hodgepodge posted:there's a long history of the rhetoric of justifying war, colonialism, and genocide in the name of protecting the victims from their own culture using lurid descriptions of barbaric behaviour, and you specifically used one deployed by our own cultures in our own lifetime to justify an ongoing war. they aren't unrelated at all, and you aren't using them in an unrelated fashion, you are using them in precisely the same fashion. what the gently caress are you talking about, "china itself isn't using in this case", I wasn't saying that the uighurs were committing FGM, I was making an abstract point about the word "culture" and the phrase "cultural practices" and the various lovely things that they can be papered over by using them and the "ooooh it's their culture!" logic lol like I give a gently caress about your contempt, give me a break, all you've been doing is melting down over nothing Terrible Opinions posted:Why would an entire ethnic group need to be deradicalized and why would they choose to do so along ethnic lines rather than checking for warning signs among individuals? it doesn't, they're not, they probably are
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Oct 21, 2020 10:02
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Doctor Jeep posted:what the gently caress are you talking about, "china itself isn't using in this case", I wasn't saying that the uighurs were committing FGM, I was making an abstract point about the word "culture" and the phrase "cultural practices" and the various lovely things that they can be papered over by using them and the "ooooh it's their culture!" logic i'm saying that you hauled out a racist pretext for colonization of islamic countries as an example of something that is good and fine quote:it doesn't, they're not, they probably are lol not even china pretends this isn't about ethnic conflict you ignorant rear end in a top hat for that matter it's pretty clear that there is an ughyr separatist movement that is interested in radicalization and deploying terrorism and there isn't much effort to hide it since not mentioning it does the job just as well Hodgepodge has issued a correction as of 10:21 on Oct 21, 2020 |
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Oct 21, 2020 10:18
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Hodgepodge posted:i'm saying that you hauled out a racist pretext for colonization of islamic countries as an example of something that is good and fine I hauled out the first disgusting "cultural practice" that came into my mind, idiot, and I didn't present FGM as something "good and fine", wtf? or is "good and fine" referring to colonization? because then your sentence isn't very intelligible. Hodgepodge posted:lol not even china pretends this isn't about ethnic conflict you ignorant rear end in a top hat where did I say that it's not an ethnic conflict? he asked why an entire ethnic group needs to be deradicalized, I replied that it doesn't. or do you disagree wiht that and want to put the entire uighur population of china into these vocational schools/internment camps? for someone who calls other people ignorant, you've shown yourself to be remarkably incapable of reading simple sentences. it's both ethnic and religious, as these things often are, I never said anything different. jesus christ, can you stop inferring stupid poo poo for one second.
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Oct 21, 2020 10:34
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Doctor Jeep posted:I hauled out the first disgusting "cultural practice" that came into my mind, idiot hmm yes, just an innocent dip from the well of imperialist propaganda, totally cool and fine the problem is literally unthinkable to you lol
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Oct 21, 2020 10:49
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A bunch of Uighurs went to Syria to join ISIS. Of course ISIS didn't view them as real Muslims and deployed them as suicide charges against fortified enemy positions to soften them up before attacking.
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Oct 21, 2020 10:54
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Hodgepodge posted:hmm yes, just an innocent dip from the well of imperialist propaganda, totally cool and fine idgi, is it imperialist propaganda that FGM exists? how are you so bad at posting, you just lob buzzwords around and expect me to make sense out of these ramblings.
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Oct 21, 2020 10:56
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Doctor Jeep posted:I hauled out the first disgusting "cultural practice" that came into my mind, idiot, and I didn't present FGM as something "good and fine", wtf? or is "good and fine" referring to colonization? because then your sentence isn't very intelligible.
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Oct 21, 2020 10:59
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Doctor Jeep posted:idgi, is it imperialist propaganda that FGM exists? how are you so bad at posting, you just lob buzzwords around and expect me to make sense out of these ramblings. sure, it exists. you understand that its role in our own society is not an abstract understanding of a fact, although its much closer in the context of an anthropology seminar, but as an element of propaganda meant to serve as an entry on a list of, as you put it, disgusting cultural practices. that disgust is what hate is dude. reflexive disgust at the thought of the other which justifies the reality of a massive power imbalance.
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Oct 21, 2020 11:21
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Terrible Opinions posted:So your point of disagreement is that you don't think the people in internment camps are gathered en masse, and instead are each individually chosen based on specific criminal warning signs? Are you coming from a belief that the number of people is grossly exaggerated or are you going to hold up the ridiculous claim that one million plus people doesn't constitute just grabbing them for being the wrong ethnicity? 1) no, I merely think they're chosen based on more criteria than "is uighur", which is what your post implied. nice to see you trotting out a false dilemma though, classic ben shapiro move. 2) the former
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Oct 21, 2020 11:25
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Hodgepodge posted:sure, it exists. you understand that its role in our own society is not an abstract understanding of a fact, although its much closer in the context of an anthropology seminar, but as an element of propaganda meant to serve as an entry on a list of, as you put it, disgusting cultural practices. that disgust is what hate is dude. reflexive disgust at the thought of the other which justifies the reality of a massive power imbalance. my disgust at FGM isn't a "reflexive disgust at the thought of the other", it's a reflexive disgust at the thought of people cutting off clitorises you've drowned yourself in so much rambling nonsense that FGM isn't a valid target of criticism anymore, great job
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Oct 21, 2020 11:32
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Doctor Jeep posted:my disgust at FGM isn't a "reflexive disgust at the thought of the other", it's a reflexive disgust at the thought of people cutting off clitorises you described it as "the first disgusting cultural practice which came to into [your] mind" a practice can be real and still used as racist propaganda, and that propaganda is then still racist. what would you then call refusing to acknowledge or examine this? Hodgepodge has issued a correction as of 11:54 on Oct 21, 2020 |
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Oct 21, 2020 11:41
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Terrible Opinions posted:Why would an entire ethnic group need to be deradicalized and why would they choose to do so along ethnic lines rather than checking for warning signs among individuals? hosed up to discriminate against actual ethnic groups though. FGM is no more a cultural practice than shoving firecrackers into frogs or shooting cats with BB guns, though. Tubgoat has issued a correction as of 11:43 on Oct 21, 2020 |
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Oct 21, 2020 11:41
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wait im trying to keep my notes straight here is genocide cool and ok to ignore as long as it takes place in a country that the usa doesnt like
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Oct 21, 2020 11:51
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Kanine posted:wait im trying to keep my notes straight here is genocide cool and ok to ignore as long as it takes place in a country that the usa doesnt like yep
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Oct 21, 2020 12:04
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Kanine posted:wait im trying to keep my notes straight here is genocide cool and ok to ignore as long as it takes place in a country that the usa doesnt like no, but it is fine in order to fight islamic radicalization so nice to see some bush era racism again for a change
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Oct 21, 2020 12:08
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Kanine posted:wait im trying to keep my notes straight here is genocide cool and ok to ignore as long as it takes place in a country that the usa doesnt like no. it's kind of a 'stay in your lane' situation, and why someone is bringing China and the Uyghurs situation up in my experience i'm not a citizen or communist radical actor in China, i have no material connection or control to what is happening there, neither usually do people who use the Uyghur genocide as a flimsy whataboutism, i mean it gets invoked for all sorts of insane reasons, for it to mean anything in an argument about left politics we'd have to first concede that China is still a useful example of a country engaging in communist revolution (eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh) and probably qualify it 50 other ways, so really it's a big "yeah it's real bad, so?" thing to have to respond to w/r/t what ever the gently caress is happening in america and places i have some sort of control or voice regardless of how compromised and ignored
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Oct 21, 2020 12:33
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personally I'm against imperialism, genocide, and female genital mutilation
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Oct 21, 2020 12:44
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:personally I'm against imperialism, genocide, and female genital mutilation look at this virtue signaller 
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Oct 21, 2020 12:48
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as a liberal I want to ensure all genders’ genitalia are equally mangled.
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Oct 21, 2020 13:09
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e: hmm, on second thought, that joke came out wrong
Platystemon has issued a correction as of 13:35 on Oct 21, 2020 |
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Oct 21, 2020 13:29
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:as a liberal I want to ensure all genders’ genitalia are equally mangled. Don't bring your disgusting fetishes into a serious discussion.
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Oct 21, 2020 13:41
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As a liberal, i stand firmly against female genital mutilation (unless its performed by a predator drone)
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Oct 21, 2020 13:52
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Doctor Jeep posted:1) no, I merely think they're chosen based on more criteria than "is uighur", which is what your post implied. nice to see you trotting out a false dilemma though, classic ben shapiro move. I lived in China for a bit due to work. They aren't chosen on anymore criteria than "Uighur". Squizzle will come give me a sixer again but China is an ethno state for the Han Chinese. They make up the entire government, the entire communist party is for them and them alone, they make up the military, all business leaders are Han as well, they are over 90% of the population. They get all the benefits, nobody else gets poo poo. Any major ethnic group that isn't them is treated very harshly to outright removed. Only the Han people are Chinese to them, and China is the nation for the Han people, and the nation itself still views all the various Chinese disporias around the world as Han Chinese and this has lead to massive problems in places like the Philipines where they set up parallel societies and actively do work for China. On the other hand in places like the US it's a non issue as the fully integrate into the nation and identify as Americans. It's a completely alien national outlook to many people. China, the party, and the Han are all the same thing there. The Uighurs are a Turkic people, and thus not Chinese no matter how long they have been there and they are not part of China to the Han. They are interlopers and a problem to them, and they are systematically getting rid of them and they don't give a flying gently caress what other people or nations think about it. China has a truly terrifying level of nationalism and views itself in terms and in ways that allow jaw dropping levels of inhumanity. "Not Han" is all they need to do whatever there. EDIT- this is also why the alt-right loves them, they view this is a model MysteriousStranger has issued a correction as of 14:10 on Oct 21, 2020 |
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Oct 21, 2020 14:02
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Hodgepodge posted:you described it as "the first disgusting cultural practice which came to into [your] mind" I would call it "ignoring stupid bullshit" "refusing to acknowledge" "refusing to examine", the fact that I didn't lay out my inner monologue to you doesn't mean that I didn't process your posts, it means that I deemed their arguments weak I've examined your proposition and find it ridiculous I can't believe that mentioning loving FGM in a negative way is contested, this is insane Hodgepodge posted:no, but it is fine in order to fight islamic radicalization comparing bush's 2 wars and various atrocities to some at worst internment camps with lessons and at best vocational schools is insulting oh look, mysterious stranger danger, all the stars are here!
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Oct 21, 2020 14:29
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oh, i can only guess at your motives. the best i can piece together is that whether this is a genocide is secondary to the excuse for some genocide denial in your case. but it's just a guess, you could have some other hosed up motive, i don't really care. it's all smoke and mirrors from you. my words are perfectly clear and have been from the start. gently caress off and go be openly fash with your own kind. Hodgepodge has issued a correction as of 14:38 on Oct 21, 2020 |
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Oct 21, 2020 14:36
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Hodgepodge posted:oh, i can only guess at your motives. the best i can piece together is that whether this is a genocide is secondary to the excuse for some genocide denial in your case. but it's just a guess, you could have some other hosed up motive, i don't really care. so the best you can piece together is that I just love doing genocide denial, that's my thing, I roam wikipedia for genocides both acknowledged and alleged and go around message boards, youtube comments, facebook posts, denying them? yeah that sounds very realistic, brilliant insight. there's no smoke and no mirrors, I made a small point about the bad use of the terms "culture" and "cultural practices", at which you started haranguing me for racism and imperialism because saying FGM is bad is apparently only allowed if you're in the specific national group that is doing FGM, otherwise you're othering and commiting genocide. oh and I'm also fash and I should go be with my own kind, presumably people with basic reading comprehension. if it's all smoke and mirrors then why did I spell out my stance to Terrible Opinions? your own dumb theory falls apart if you look at posts I made on this same page. just loving lol.
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Oct 21, 2020 14:59
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china can have a little genocide sometimes, as a treat. disagree and you're a racist and basically gwb - hodgepodge ITT
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Oct 21, 2020 15:01
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:china can have a little genocide sometimes, as a treat. disagree and you're a racist and basically gwb i'm not sure how you got that, since i'm arguing against the guy who says china is only doing cool and good things to the ughyrs
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Oct 21, 2020 15:04
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Yeah there isn't much to cover up, smoke and mirrors, however you want to call it. Doctor Jeep believes the scale of the camps is a lie, therefore it's just normal every day gitmo situation.
Terrible Opinions has issued a correction as of 15:14 on Oct 21, 2020 |
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Oct 21, 2020 15:08
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Doctor Jeep posted:so the best you can piece together is that I just love doing genocide denial, that's my thing, I roam wikipedia for genocides both acknowledged and alleged and go around message boards, youtube comments, facebook posts, denying them? you might want to reread the post i originally replied to since what you said is that something, and it isn't clear what since there are several things you could be referring to in the post you replied to, was compable to calling opposition to fgm genocide. which is great and all, but opposition to fgm is used as a fig leaf for advocating for genocide of muslims and this has kind of been a thing on the right since the bush years. it's eased off a bit since then, and there is only one group of people who mention fgm on the regular in western politics at the moment, and it's in fact fash arguing for genocide. so when you mention in a vague sort of way saying that opposing it totally can't be related to genocide while arguing that an alleged genocide of muslims isn't happening, it's a bit of a little whoopsie. Hodgepodge has issued a correction as of 15:22 on Oct 21, 2020 |
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Oct 21, 2020 15:10
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Hodgepodge posted:which is great and all, but opposition to fgm is used as a fig leaf for advocating for genocide of muslims and this has kind of been a thing since the bush years. and plenty of people oppose it who aren't slobbering rabid neo-con ghouls, you dolt
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Oct 21, 2020 15:19
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:and plenty of people oppose it who aren't slobbering rabid neo-con ghouls, you dolt lol, you are aware that people who criticize how the british used the ban on sati to justify their empire in india are not, in fact, pro-sati, right? like this poo poo doesn't have a small history. in what meaningful way do you oppose fgm? saying it's bad? no poo poo. do you think it would be absurd to think that opposing it might be used as a pretext for things such as colonialism and genocide? that would seem a bit odd to me considering it has and is being used as such for a good twenty years.
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Oct 21, 2020 15:27
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:and plenty of people oppose it who aren't slobbering rabid neo-con ghouls, you dolt i mean he's not saying that, just that it and other Very Bad Things are used to justify imperialism. more to the point, maybe im misreading one of you but he's using that argument specifically against china's repression of the uighurs?
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Oct 21, 2020 15:28
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Terrible Opinions posted:Yeah there isn't much to cover up, smoke and mirrors, however you want to call it. Doctor Jeep believes the scale of the camps is a lie, therefore it's just normal every day gitmo situation. i mean, that makes sense if you agree with him that deradicalization is a humanitarian purpose the smoke and mirrors is largely in distracting you from keeping track of all the openly horrible poo poo they're saying, acting outraged when called on it, and getting you to go along with it StashAugustine posted:i mean he's not saying that, just that it and other Very Bad Things are used to justify imperialism. more to the point, maybe im misreading one of you but he's using that argument specifically against china's repression of the uighurs? yes. whereas the opposing position is that what china is doing is justified and minimal in scope, which is somehow comparable to opposing fgm in some vague fashion, and calling this bullshit is unhinged and crazy. Hodgepodge has issued a correction as of 15:39 on Oct 21, 2020 |
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Oct 21, 2020 15:35
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lol ok you guys go back to seeing neocons in your sock drawer when people dare to say bad things are bad
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Oct 21, 2020 15:39
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:lol ok you guys go back to seeing neocons in your sock drawer when people dare to say bad things are bad glad too see you support comrade xi's efforts against Islamic radicalism
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Oct 21, 2020 15:42
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:lol ok you guys go back to seeing neocons in your sock drawer when people dare to say bad things are bad lol how about i point out that the alt-right is coming from within the thead when i see it instead
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Oct 21, 2020 15:42
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