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This is the teaser update that they're releasing early because everything in it probably works well enough. The next tier etc. come early next year I believe.
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Oct 22, 2020 23:27
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Joda posted:So... is that all for this update? Fluid stuff, ladders and floor/ceiling power stuff? I might sit this one out. From what I've seen so far: Ladders Floor/ceiling power nodes New building for packaging liquid Mk.2 pipes/pumps Jump pads will now show where you'll land Good quality of life improvements but I haven't seen anything that will drastically change the game. My current infrastructure never really requires me to package liquids except for jetpack fuel so I don't think I'll get much if any use out of the new building unless it does other stuff we haven't seen. There are already fluid containers for trains if you need to transport a large volume of fluid long distances for whatever reason. At least it's a move in the right direction by taking some functions away from refineries, I'd say they're required for too many processes at the moment. I kind of burned out after playing the game an obscene amount over the course of two weeks or so, I'll probably wait until whichever update introduces ways to manufacture quantum computers and the other items that you can see as requirements for a few of the hard drives but can't be obtained in the current build. I'm guessing those will be the things that require SAM ore, still not sure what they have planned for the alien collectibles scattered around everywhere.
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Oct 22, 2020 23:41
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Joda posted:So... is that all for this update? Fluid stuff, ladders and floor/ceiling power stuff? I might sit this one out. ... it's not Update 4, it's update 3.1.
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Oct 23, 2020 03:24
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NoEyedSquareGuy posted:Jump pads will now show where you'll land More importantly: you can adjust WHERE they’ll land, and now can be triggered manually instead of just when you touch it with your feet
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Oct 23, 2020 05:14
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This update is a list of the community's most-requested things that aren't the next tier / high-powered things. Totally skippable if you're done with what's in the game for now, but really nice for anyone still active. I have an oil refinery area that I've left half-built ever since the teaser for the fluid packager came out, because the number of refineries you need for the diluted fuel stuff is real dumb. NoEyedSquareGuy posted:still not sure what they have planned for the alien collectibles scattered around everywhere. Supposed to be the story / narrative part of the game. From the studio's previous work, I wouldn't be expecting too much in that area. But a small "wtf is up with this planet?" storyline will hopefully be cool. tranten posted:and now can be triggered manually instead of just when you touch it with your feet Huh, are you sure? I figured that delay between the guy getting on the pad and it bouncing him was just the pad taking a second between receiving power and then updating that it should fire.
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Oct 23, 2020 06:44
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Klyith posted:This update is a list of the community's most-requested things that aren't the next tier / high-powered things. I haven't gotten to turbo motors yet because when I looked at a calculator and it said over 100 refineries just to make enough supercomputers to do 10 turbo motors a minute and thought about how many foundations and bullshit I would have to place by hand. Went back to Factorio 1.0 and enjoyed how much easier it is to build big (I don't even mean robots - just being able to copy parts of your own factory and place them down as blueprints). Hoping by update 4 there's something that makes it less tedious. quote:Huh, are you sure? I figured that delay between the guy getting on the pad and it bouncing him was just the pad taking a second between receiving power and then updating that it should fire.
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Oct 23, 2020 11:14
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PancakeTransmission posted:Except a way to copy/paste or blueprint (even just placing ghosts that you still have to manually plop down - as a planning tool).... They've already said that they're never doing a copy paste or blueprint system and personally I agree with the decision as the best thing about the game is it being real world based and about building things step by step and feel it would lack any form of challenge or interest if I could just copy and paste someone else's design, I feel like Factorio is probably the game for you if you want that sort of thing and it's a pretty clear differentiator of the two games.
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Oct 23, 2020 12:28
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I feel like Satisfactory definitely could use something to alleviate some of the tedium of building bigger things. I don't want to copy-paste someone else's stuff, but boy do I want to it to be easier to deal with stuff like merging/splitting etc. all the smelters I need to attach to a single mk2/mk3 miner?
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Oct 23, 2020 12:36
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It's very realistic to not plan out your factory at all, but build it up one piece at a time. What's a blueprint?
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Oct 23, 2020 13:16
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bony tony posted:It's very realistic to not plan out your factory at all, but build it up one piece at a time. What's a blueprint? i mean you can literally do that in real life then do it in game, are you advocating for a pen and paper system or something
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Oct 23, 2020 13:20
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Oxyclean posted:I feel like Satisfactory definitely could use something to alleviate some of the tedium of building bigger things. I don't want to copy-paste someone else's stuff, but boy do I want to it to be easier to deal with stuff like merging/splitting etc. all the smelters I need to attach to a single mk2/mk3 miner? Now there's an idea - what if, when you are building a conveyor and click it to another conveyor it auto-builds a splitter or merger? Just as long as you connect to the other end first to establish direction. It'd let you build fairly complex manifolds without switching what you're building. With the QoL improvements I'm surprised they haven't added area-filling foundations and walls yet. That would go a long way toward making big construction more straightforward without having to approach messing with blueprints.
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Oct 23, 2020 13:21
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Not having a blueprint system is a big problem because as the game goes on, it wants you to build more and more on top requiring you to make factories more complex, everything starts to scale up, but not make things easier, but for the sake of just making things more complex. That's a big difference between Factorio and Satisfactory, in Factorio as you start building bigger and more complex factories the game start introducing interesting QoL features that make doing so easier and easier as you progress through the game, in Satisfactory on the other hands, a late game player isn't anymore capable of building anything better beyond how they started the game, despite the game requiring to do more. I don't want to have to remember where I built everything exactly when I try duplicate a basic parts factory that I somehow jam something like 10 constructors in a 5x6, it's tedious. Back Hack fucked around with this message at 14:00 on Oct 23, 2020 |
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Oct 23, 2020 13:32
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Tenebrais posted:Now there's an idea - what if, when you are building a conveyor and click it to another conveyor it auto-builds a splitter or merger? Just as long as you connect to the other end first to establish direction. It'd let you build fairly complex manifolds without switching what you're building. Having a paver vehicle that just spreads foundations would be awesome. Just drive around foubdationing like a concrete zamboni.
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Oct 23, 2020 13:54
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PancakeTransmission posted:Except a way to copy/paste or blueprint (even just placing ghosts that you still have to manually plop down - as a planning tool)... 10 turbomotors a minute is a lot of turbomotors though. It's like, 10 or 50 turbomotors per minute is the type of thing people do when they want a challenge to build something really really big. But the only reason to do it is because you enjoy building it. You won't need 10 turbomotors in the next stage of the game. Right now lots of turbomotors is the default challenge for lack of a better one. Also if you're looking at the online calculators and want to minimize the number of buildings, you need to be very choosy about which alternate recipes you turn on. Some of the most efficient alternates in terms of input:output ratio come at the expense of more buildings, or things like the pure ingot recipes that use refineries instead of smelters. Some others are straight productivity increases. Trying to do the whole thing with those tools is a bad idea: you want to attack the problem in smaller chunks to plan it intelligently. But anyways, here's how to do 10 turbomotors per minute on just 51 refineries. Tenebrais posted:With the QoL improvements I'm surprised they haven't added area-filling foundations and walls yet. That would go a long way toward making big construction more straightforward without having to approach messing with blueprints. Just adding double-size 16mx16m flat foundations would be a big help, that'd be good enough for me. Plus it'd reduce the number of objects in the world. Valtonen posted:Having a paver vehicle that just spreads foundations would be awesome. Just drive around foubdationing like a concrete zamboni. lol love this
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Oct 23, 2020 15:57
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“Okay the rest of you fuckers actually build I’ll be paving over the entire planet on my foundation-jeep smell ya later.” -Me to my friends, driving off into the sunset and leaving a parking lot in my wake
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Oct 23, 2020 16:47
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Honestly, the devs saying they won't do blueprints but also not coming up with any QoL solutions either is dumb as hell. I'm in the middle of building a megabase and it sucks and it doesn't *have* to suck considering there are already mods that target this specific weakness of the game and other games have found their own solutions. I never respect when a dev say "we want to ensure the game remains lovely in this regard for... reasons" - I'm in the late game, the most basic task in the game - building things - should be getting easier or at least remaining roughly constant in effort instead of spiraling into something unpleasant - anyone who says such QoL features are unnecessary can just not use them lol.
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Oct 23, 2020 17:28
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When the core loop of the game is building and linking up machines to perform a task subverting that element of the game is self defeating. It’s not just “reasons” it’s because they have the requirement of manually setting things up as the core of the game and built around that. It’d be like making mario auto jump to the next platform because constantly jumping is tedious to some players.
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Oct 23, 2020 17:31
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No, that's dumb as hell thinking. It's actually doing the complete opposite of subverting the game loop - it allows you to connect bigger and more specialized 'machines' together. The same exact argument could be made for factorio except their devs came up with solutions that not only solved the problem but are part of the game world itself. Again, if the idea of being able to repeat patterns you've already spent time developing sounds wrong to you, you could just not use it. Really shocked that people are justifying tedium - the only thing I can think of is that it's sour grapes from having built a huge base piece by piece and wanting everyone else to struggle in the same fashion.
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Oct 23, 2020 17:47
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I feel like if you want those things you can play Factorio and if you don't you can play Satisfactory or just mod Satisfactory to your choosing, I personally feel the grind of it to be central to the sense of reward that comes from building megastructures
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Oct 23, 2020 17:47
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brian posted:I feel like if you want those things you can play Factorio and if you don't you can play Satisfactory or just mod Satisfactory to your choosing, I personally feel the grind of it to be central to the sense of reward that comes from building megastructures Yeah so you could... just not use the features that other people want? I know a game like this attracts broke brains but this is ridiculous.
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Oct 23, 2020 17:48
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Super Rad posted:Yeah so you could... just not use the features that other people want? I know a game like this attracts broke brains but this is ridiculous. I think it’s you who has the broke brain there chief. This game isn’t what you want and there are others that are. Play them instead of trying to make this game into something it’s not. And there’s options for you to get what you want so go use them instead of bitching constantly and accusing people of having broke brains for pointing out that your outrage is of your own design.
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Oct 23, 2020 17:50
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TK-42-1 posted:When the core loop of the game is building and linking up machines to perform a task subverting that element of the game is self defeating. It’s not just “reasons” it’s because they have the requirement of manually setting things up as the core of the game and built around that. It’d be like making mario auto jump to the next platform because constantly jumping is tedious to some players. a better comparison is if in those Mario games you had to replay and complete each level again to traverse the world map. this is an exact problem that you have solved and performed 20+ times already, and each time takes several minutes to hours to accomplish, and is unnecessary tedium preventing you from engaging with the current level of content you are in
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Oct 23, 2020 17:51
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TK-42-1 posted:When the core loop of the game is building and linking up machines to perform a task subverting that element of the game is self defeating. It’s not just “reasons” it’s because they have the requirement of manually setting things up as the core of the game and built around that. It’d be like making mario auto jump to the next platform because constantly jumping is tedious to some players. A lot of the tedium could be relieved by adding in an option for larger foundations since that's probably the most boring part of setting up a big project. Let us enter the dimensions of how big we want it to be and place a single giant slab in the game world instead of having to lay out each square individually. If someone thinks that actually placing the buildings and linking all the necessary belts/pipes/power lines is boring then I'm not sure why they would be playing the game in the first place.
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Oct 23, 2020 17:55
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Generally speaking the core gameplay is in designing your factories more than in the click-to-click construction of them. Certainly you don't gain anything out of having to click down 36 separate foundation blocks than being able to drag a 6x6 square of them out. I don't think Coffee Stain are complete fools for rejecting the idea of blueprints, but I think they're taking a gamble on being able to eventually make the construction engaging enough that you wouldn't want to skip it. I suspect power cores are intended to be a part of this, especially if they do end up introducing Mk 2 constructors/assemblers etc; being able to have buildings run at five times the normal rate is one alternative to blueprinting.
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Oct 23, 2020 17:56
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games are as they are designed and this has been designed this way, i do not see the value in arguing about how it could be designed differently, it's not something they've overlooked, they've specifically chosen this design. i'm sure someone will make a 3d factorio one day if there's enough people who want it because it'll invariably be one of those people who wants it that will make it
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Oct 23, 2020 17:57
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I can see foundations being something that should be expanded upon instead of placing each one individually as that doesn't really subvert anything other than a bunch of mindless clicks to lay out an area. Earlier in the thread I advocated for ghost buildings that could be filled in later as something that would be nice since it would allow you to more easily plan out your base even if you don't have all the materials just yet and give you something to do other than walk away and eat lunch while you get some computers churned out. It's the same amount of work and doesn't take anything away from the gameplay as designed unlike just plopping down a blueprint of a 10GW turbofuel factory and walking away. If you want to make a huge megabase that makes 50 supercomputers a minute then youre going to have to put in work. Thats just the game and making that kind of ridiculously over the top challenge easier would only serve to mitigate the early game or the vast majority of players who are doing things "wrong". You can't tailor your game to powerusers because it makes it a worse experience for everyone else and/or makes it so easy that people get bored and dont continue to play.
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Oct 23, 2020 18:13
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There are definitely some QoL improvements for mass building they should implement -- the most basic being that when you pick a building with middle-click, it should also copy that building's selected recipe. (Bonus: also the OC setting including automatically slotting in power crystals from your inventory.) A full blueprint system ala factorio is IMO best handled by game design that lessens the need for blueprints in the first place. The Mk2 smelters, constructors, etc that are in Tier 8 would be a massive help for this. Limited blueprints is another potential thing that I'd be down with. Like, "highlight N items to place as a blueprint stamp" limited. (Have that N be like 6 at first with upgrades to 12 or so.) That would let you place buildings with some pre-connected conveyor, or one pair of a simple manifold of constructors or assemblers. Arbitrary blueprints in the base game isn't great because making big impressive builds becomes much less impressive if you can just C&P. That should stay a mod thing.
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Oct 23, 2020 18:26
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I binged on Satisfactory for a solid 30 hours or so and haven't touched the game since, as the mid to late-game tedium really set in and took out the creative fun and freedom I enjoy when it comes to games like this. I'd have a really cool idea for a factory but then an hour into meticulously piecing it together I'd just get burnt out and question why I was spending all this time dealing with the most unengaging part of the game which consists of frustrating clicking and having to reposition the same component for the hundredth time or place down the millionth wall. There's no easy solution for it, either. It's not like they can just add in robots a la Factorio (so at least it's sticking to the core gameplay where it's a machine making machines that helps make bigger machines), I have no idea how it'd work but I know it would be a huge undertaking for the devs. Blueprints seem like the next best thing, and it'd get me back into the game for sure. And then for the purists, they could just not use blueprints. The constant comparisons to Factorio must get tiring, but at least that game rewards creativity and removes tedium. You can smack down huge blueprints you've created (or downloaded), or spend the time meticulously handcrafting a segment of the factory. Expanding in Factorio isn't a mindless, daunting task, it's something I actively look forward to because there are so many ways of tackling it that don't sap enjoyment from the game.
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Oct 23, 2020 18:33
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Tenebrais posted:Generally speaking the core gameplay is in designing your factories more than in the click-to-click construction of them. Certainly you don't gain anything out of having to click down 36 separate foundation blocks than being able to drag a 6x6 square of them out. I think this is likely to be what we end up with, and I'm fine with that. We have mk2 pipes and pumps now (presumably) so if we just get mk2 constructors, assemblers and refineries, as well as faster belts and some way to mass build foundations, I think that will go a really long way to reducing the tedium of large build projects. Plus there's a lot of opportunities for tedium reduction in quantum tech whenever we get there.
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Oct 23, 2020 18:35
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Last time I played I got annoyed that the game expected me to put up a third copy of my coal plant by hand, taking forever with no brain input. And I decided to not play the game again until that sort of busywork is no longer necessary.
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Oct 23, 2020 20:12
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Qubee posted:It's not like they can just add in robots a la Factorio (so at least it's sticking to the core gameplay where it's a machine making machines that helps make bigger machines), I have no idea how it'd work but I know it would be a huge undertaking for the devs. A thing I've seen suggested by other people is just a hovering camera drone that you can use the normal placement pointer with. Something that's useful for large-scale late-game builds as the lookout tower is for the very early game. Being able to look top-down makes laying the buildings and lining up splitters for manifolds far easier. I like that idea plenty. Heck, their pathfinding system seems pretty good, I'd be down with a robot friend to follow you around with some extra inventory, the build camera ability, and some minor combat ability. Rather than bite on factorio's style, bite on PSO and give us a Mag.
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Oct 23, 2020 20:25
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VictualSquid posted:Last time I played I got annoyed that the game expected me to put up a third copy of my coal plant by hand, taking forever with no brain input. And I decided to not play the game again until that sort of busywork is no longer necessary. This is my biggest complaint. If I need parallel lines to produce enough stuff to make progression not take halfway to forever, I kinda want better tools to set that parallelism up. Or give me faster machines, so that I don’t need 50 smelters.
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Oct 23, 2020 20:38
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VictualSquid posted:Last time I played I got annoyed that the game expected me to put up a third copy of my coal plant by hand, taking forever with no brain input. And I decided to not play the game again until that sort of busywork is no longer necessary. Yea I built a 4800MW coal setup and haven't touched the game since. The amount of busy work running pipes was just unreal. I agree with other posters saying that the solution to this sort of problem is better machines that don't need to be built in extreme numbers to get the production you want.
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Oct 23, 2020 22:00
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The only mass building feature I'd really want is being able to drag out a row of identical buildings instead of having to line up the snap for each. At least for foundations if not for production buildings. More than that, I'd want to be able to place splitters and mergers directly on building inputs and outputs. Also, fixing splitters/mergers placed on conveyor lifts being placed inside the conveyor lift.
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Oct 23, 2020 22:34
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a truly bizarre kind of literalist thinking involved in thinking the core gameplay of satisfactory is the clicking and building parts of putting things together, and not the thought behind choosing where to put things and how to connect them. That would be like thinking that the primary ability involved in playing civ or crusader kings is clicking on buttons and reading menus. Technically that is involved, but that's not what you're *doing*. And the most recent iteration of Crusader kings was eplicitly designed to take the difficulty or reading menus out of it as much as they could. Your brain isn't sitting in your finger tips in the same way that it is in an action game that relies on twitch response. I'm not advocating for a magic wand to whisk all of my problems away when building larger factories, but I super don't want to just repeat myself 50x times when building the prereqs for something like a heavy modular frame or whatever. *especially* since so much of the game involves obviating other possible difficulties to blueprinting - you can literally build castles in the sky if you want to, never engaging with the problem of making something fit into a given space - and that's basically considered the Way To Play The Game! If anything, a blueprinter that only worked on enclosed buildings with a defined input and output would actually make building enclosed, tightly designed factory spaces more important and put an emphasis on on the mechanics of building in 3d space. I don't need to hold in my conscious mind the ratio for iron ingots to rods to screws when I'm building something in tier 5. In fact, the way that you acquire new recipes semirandomly throughout the game would perfectly mesh with a blueprint-style system, or something like it. the optional new recipes you get allow you the opportunity to go back and refactor old designs, giving you that pop of satisfaction as you revisit an old building block and allowing you to replace it in newer designs to be more efficient. Instead the game feels like the video game equivalent of programming using notepad instead of a real text editor or IDE. Peewi posted:The only mass building feature I'd really want is being able to drag out a row of identical buildings instead of having to line up the snap for each. At least for foundations if not for production buildings. edit: A compromise like this would be perfect. Let me drag and drop walls, foundation, constructors, etc. Impermanent fucked around with this message at 00:05 on Oct 24, 2020 |
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Oct 24, 2020 00:02
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Impermanent posted:a truly bizarre kind of literalist thinking involved in thinking the core gameplay of satisfactory is the clicking and building parts of putting things together, and not the thought behind choosing where to put things and how to connect them. Well, you're wrong. I mostly enjoy the slow and repetitive nature of builds here, I find it relaxing. I wouldn't call it the core gameplay, but it's one of the 3 or 4 main elements of the game. And it's the game as it is, rather than some other game or some idea I imagine I'd like better. It's like, the thought and choice part is best done entirely outside of the game, on paper or with satisfactory-calculator or satisfactorytools. Which a ton of people use despite the fact they remove a ton of that thought and choice you say are the core of the game. So how I see the gameplay elements of Satisfactory are: • planning, math, graph paper • exploration, hunting for drives, picking up slugs, just driving around scouting the locations • slow building like we did it in minecraft (also a game without blueprints) As I said before, to me a coal plant is a relaxing build where can skip the graph paper and just lay out buildings and pipes. It takes an evening or two and is done, I can listen to a podcast even. (I don't normally do game + podcast, because I can't split attention for poo poo.) That said, I have no objection to things like this: quote:edit: A compromise like this would be perfect. Let me drag and drop walls, foundation, constructors, etc.
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Oct 24, 2020 00:57
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I just realized being able to plop down a splitter or merger in the middle of an existing belt (ideally by just dragging a new belt into an existing one) would solve a looooot of the tedium in this game
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Oct 24, 2020 01:40
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But you can do that right now..right?
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Oct 24, 2020 01:45
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mirarant posted:But you can do that right now..right? You can but it’s fiddly in whether or not it’ll take or just sit there and clog up the line so you have to tear it down and redo the belt.
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Oct 24, 2020 01:54
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Clark Nova posted:I just realized being able to plop down a splitter or merger in the middle of an existing belt (ideally by just dragging a new belt into an existing one) would solve a looooot of the tedium in this game Get the merger or splitter queued, then point at an existing belt. The ghost box will pop onto the belt. Also if you remove the merger/splitter it'll go back to being one long belt. This is part of the process for the most compact way to squeeze assemblers & other multi-input machines into manifolds, which involved doing that in position to directly connect lifts from building to splitter. Bussamove posted:You can but it’s fiddly in whether or not it’ll take or just sit there and clog up the line so you have to tear it down and redo the belt. If it doesn't take it's because you aimed at the floor rather than the belt. (e: Or attached a m/s box to a lift, which is buggy as all getout and does need to be fixed.) mirarant posted:But you can do that right now..right? You can't directly attach to a belt while laying belt and have the merger appear as part of the process, as Clark Nova's suggestion. The would be convenient, but also the game would need to be psychic to know whether you intended to attach to a belt with a merger or were trying to aim past that other belt. Laying belt in a complex network would be rather fraught. Maybe if there was a build mode switch for belts, normal vs "join".
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Oct 24, 2020 02:01
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