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Manager Hoyden
Mar 5, 2020

Man I want to like Graveyard Keeper.

A dark, creepy Harvest Moon should work, but it is so boring. You can't really do anything interesting and the little bit that you can do is gated behind the world's most boring progress bars. Also the story is slow and sucks.

Someone else should take a crack at the concept.

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Byzantine
Sep 1, 2007

Morpheus posted:

I think you played it wrong.

I think my Alexios banged like a dozen people at the very least before suddenly falling in love with some noname joker.

Yeah, my Kassandra took the option every time it came up, then usually recruited them for the ship.

SubNat
Nov 27, 2008

RenegadeStyle1 posted:

This forced romantic sub plot in the DLC for Assassins Creed Odyssey is about to kill me from lameness. I like my AC protags to be sexless virgin killing machines thank you.

Honestly just drop that DLC entirely and go for the good ones instead.
I was surprised at just the loving chasm of quality difference between the lovely assassin dlc, and the 'Oh yeah this one is actually neat.' DLC.

The difference between 'Oh god, just add a handful of quests and reuse the cultist mechanic in this one region to churn out a DLC asap' and 'This is just straight up an expansion, huh?' is pretty staggering.

Manager Hoyden posted:

Man I want to like Graveyard Keeper.

Yeah, I played through it a while back but there were just so many things rubbing me the same way at the time as well.
Frustrating inventory management and crafting/supplies, and god was the trial and error-y, do everything manually, shuffle around a ton of items with terrible management crafting grating.
Even just a 'you can access the storage chests in this room while crafting in it' would be a massive QoL upgrade.

e: From what I remember there was an obligatory, long, tedious, super garbage dungeon crawl, I think being forced to do it was the thing I found the most grating.

SubNat has a new favorite as of 16:07 on Oct 23, 2020

RenegadeStyle1
Jun 7, 2005

Baby Come Back

SubNat posted:

Honestly just drop that DLC entirely and go for the good ones instead.
I was surprised at just the loving chasm of quality difference between the lovely assassin dlc, and the 'Oh yeah this one is actually neat.' DLC.

The difference between 'Oh god, just add a handful of quests and reuse the cultist mechanic in this one region to churn out a DLC asap' and 'This is just straight up an expansion, huh?' is pretty staggering.

Yeah this is my first playthrough and I have both expansions. I find it weird that after telling my mom to meet me in Sparta that I stopped off to start a family real quick. I dunno how that will give with the rest of the game. I'm kind of a completionist so I'll complete it but it's rather lame story wise. I haven't gotten far enough to access the other one. I see that there is a menu option for it but there's also quests in game. I'm not sure if I'm supposed to do that or the menu or if they're both the same or if they're not even related but I'm hoping it becomes more clear as I get into it.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009

I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

RenegadeStyle1 posted:

Yeah this is my first playthrough and I have both expansions. I find it weird that after telling my mom to meet me in Sparta that I stopped off to start a family real quick. I dunno how that will give with the rest of the game. I'm kind of a completionist so I'll complete it but it's rather lame story wise. I haven't gotten far enough to access the other one. I see that there is a menu option for it but there's also quests in game. I'm not sure if I'm supposed to do that or the menu or if they're both the same or if they're not even related but I'm hoping it becomes more clear as I get into it.

I'm one of the people who really loving hated that DLC because it forces your character into a straight marriage and child after a part of the advertising was that you could be gay in the game if you wanted.

That's how I played Kassandra, sleeping with every woman who was interested and disregarding men.

Then that DLC came out and I haven't worked up any interest in playing the game again.

RenegadeStyle1
Jun 7, 2005

Baby Come Back
Yeah the sexless virgin thing was mostly a joke. My Kassandra had sex with multiple women and Alkibiades because sure why not he seemed fun, and another guy on accident. Also now some idiot I had a baby with.

Captain Hygiene
Sep 17, 2007

You mess with the crabbo...



RenegadeStyle1 posted:

and another guy on accident

The first game with "slipped and fell onto a penis" mechanics

Alhazred
Feb 16, 2011




RenegadeStyle1 posted:

Yeah the sexless virgin thing was mostly a joke. My Kassandra had sex with multiple women and Alkibiades because sure why not he seemed fun, and another guy on accident. Also now some idiot I had a baby with.

My Kassandra hosed a blacksmith, but it was foretold by the oracle so my hands was tied.

SubNat
Nov 27, 2008

Alhazred posted:

My Kassandra hosed a blacksmith, but it was foretold by the oracle so my hands was tied.

Kid: You killed my mater and hosed my pater!
Alexios: *exceptionally smug*


I really loved the very not-taking-themselves-seriously quests, and I kinda hope that keeps going through to Valhalla.
Very much enjoyed prancing round in the most south-east region:
With nobody believing Alexios as he tried to tell people that he had in fact met and bested the Minotaur, 'Maybe you killed a different one? Here, have a minotaur souvenir!'

Morpheus
Apr 18, 2008

My favourite little monsters

SubNat posted:

Yeah, I played through it a while back but there were just so many things rubbing me the same way at the time as well.
Frustrating inventory management and crafting/supplies, and god was the trial and error-y, do everything manually, shuffle around a ton of items with terrible management crafting grating.
Even just a 'you can access the storage chests in this room while crafting in it' would be a massive QoL upgrade.

e: From what I remember there was an obligatory, long, tedious, super garbage dungeon crawl, I think being forced to do it was the thing I found the most grating.

Yeah I played through the entire game, and there were some interesting parts shining through the cracks, but for the most part, eh. I thought graveyard management would be a bigger part of the game, but no, it's just another meter to progress the main game.

The dungeon crawl was the absolute worst. Not only did you have to go through all of it, but no enemies respawned so once you were done with it, it was done forever - which sucks, because you could get loot from it.

At one point you make a dark ritual room, and I kept thinking it'd be used for something, but...no. You fill it up with stuff, a plot thing happens there, and it's never used again. A lot of the game is like that, actually.

Alhazred
Feb 16, 2011




SubNat posted:


With nobody believing Alexios as he tried to tell people that he had in fact met and bested the Minotaur, 'Maybe you killed a different one? Here, have a minotaur souvenir!'

There was at least two different minotaur scams going on on that island and I enjoyed them both. Especially since you got to keep the minotaur mask after one of them.

Danger - Octopus!
Apr 20, 2008


Nap Ghost

Cythereal posted:

I'm one of the people who really loving hated that DLC because it forces your character into a straight marriage and child after a part of the advertising was that you could be gay in the game if you wanted.

That's how I played Kassandra, sleeping with every woman who was interested and disregarding men.

Then that DLC came out and I haven't worked up any interest in playing the game again.

I really liked the mission sequence that was part of some kind of DLC or special edition I think, maybe one of the Lost Tales of Greece or something? Anyway, it was where you meet someone you used to be in a relationship with and reminisce about old times, going on a date and everything. It was really sweet and nicely done.

The casual sex and relationship moments (outside of that terrible DLC that forced you into the marriage and child) was done quite entertainingly I thought. You got your gently caress on and you were smug about it. Kassandra/Alexios did everything except high five people after. Which made that one bit of the DLC all the more shite.

Mamkute
Sep 2, 2018
Killzone Shadow Fall: How was the player character able to physically and mentally withstand being tortured at the end of chapter 5?

Perestroika
Apr 8, 2010

Being very late to the party, I'm finally getting around to playing Darkest Dungeon for real. Overall I'm quite enjoying, but I really do dislike how passive the player becomes when things get dicey. Just now I went up against a miniboss who moves your party members around a lot while also inflicting a lot of stress damage (though the latter is common among a lot of enemies). Now, if a character is out of their preferred position, some or even all of their abilities may become unavailable. If their stress becomes too high, they may become uncontrollable, taking random actions on their turn instead of letting you control it. Worse, they might also refuse to comply with cooperative actions, like healing or switching positions.

So those factors together lead to a fight where the game basically played itself for minutes at a time. Either my characters acted on their own, or the combination of being out of position and having uncooperative party members meant that I had only a single thing I could do without any choice involved. I actually managed to kill the miniboss in the end, but it was just a plain boring and frustrating grind to get there.

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔
Funny, I've just started playing Darkest Dungeon again after a long break as well, because someone claimed it would work on my new Windows tablet. It does, generally, performance-wise, and it should also only require clicks, so touchscreen is fine, right?

However, for some reason, you cannot right click with touch. You need to double-click for a normal click for some reason, and thus you cannot hold for rightclick, it simply won't register that. Other people online seem to have the same problem. It's honestly a little bizarre.

Most actions in the game are actually fine just with clicking left, only a little more cumbersome, but there seems to be no way to check a party member's skills in town without right click functionality - so I have to recruit people blind, or get out the keyboard. Just a really strange issue.

muscles like this!
Jan 17, 2005


Manager Hoyden posted:

Man I want to like Graveyard Keeper.

A dark, creepy Harvest Moon should work, but it is so boring. You can't really do anything interesting and the little bit that you can do is gated behind the world's most boring progress bars. Also the story is slow and sucks.

Someone else should take a crack at the concept.

Especially weird because there are all these mechanics around burying bodies but the most efficient way of dealing with a corpse is to burn it.

Manager Hoyden
Mar 5, 2020

The people who made Graveyard Keeper were the same folks who made Punch Club. Punch Club was most famous for being so grindy and boring that the steam community begged the devs to make it more streamlined, to which they responded by melting down, telling everyone off, and putting in a sarcastic "baby" mode that slightly reduces the ridiculous time commitments.

Ruffian Price
Sep 17, 2016

Liked Punch Club as an homage to those old life simulator flash games that just had you filling progress bars until you could move to the next stage but playing that poo poo as an adult when your free time is actually worth something is dumb as hell. It's Cookie Clicker with no automation

Tunicate
May 15, 2012

Whenever a game has me repeat the same actions (or wait around) for Number Go Up to progress I switch to the slightly more engaging gameplay of getting cheat engine to make number go where I want.

CordlessPen
Jan 8, 2004

I told you so...
Man, it's like Bloodborne wasn't designed for doing a BL4 run...

After Rom, more than half the enemies kill you in one hit. Some of them are actually harder than bosses because they're often in tiny cramped areas, and I don't want to waste Blood Pellets or Papers on them. I would honestly rather fight the Shadows again than go through the Upper Cathedral Ward and its loving Brainsuckers. My run is probably going to become "run from lantern to boss to lantern" until the end, which kind of sucks. I actually really liked the run up until Rom because it made fighting regular mobs super interesting and really made you learn enemies' patterns, but I feel like I can't do that at this point because I lose all progress when a Church Servant decides to do its lantern attack and I die in a nanosecond because I made the mistake of being in melee range and he couldn't be staggered.

It also doesn't help that you're stuck with only the starting weapons. One of the (many) reasons Brainsuckers... well, suck is that you really need to stab'em and I can only slash'em.

Totally my fault, it's a challenge run, but I really enjoyed it up until this point and I kinda don't now.

Edit: The reason I'm doing a BL4 run is that a friend of mine started playing Bloodborne for the first time a few weeks ago and I got the itch again, and now my friend is doing a BL4 run as basically his second run ever. At first I thought he was making a mistake, but turns out his first timer's strategy of hit-hit-run is much better than my overconfident parry-dash-do-a-200-damage-viceral-get-hit-die.

CordlessPen has a new favorite as of 17:10 on Oct 24, 2020

Your Gay Uncle
Feb 16, 2012

by Fluffdaddy
Spelunky 2

There isn't a single bear in the game. So why are there so many god drat bear traps?

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

Looks like the bear traps did their job.

CJacobs
Apr 17, 2011

Reach for the moon!

Captain Hygiene posted:

The first game with "slipped and fell onto a penis" mechanics

No no that's The Witcher, except you play as the penis people continually slip and fall onto. The first two games feature some pretty hilarious sexual non sequiturs; at least the third bothers to ask you if you feel like letting Geralt get his groove on.

Blueshirt
Sep 27, 2020

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Manager Hoyden posted:

The people who made Graveyard Keeper were the same folks who made Punch Club. Punch Club was most famous for being so grindy and boring that the steam community begged the devs to make it more streamlined, to which they responded by melting down, telling everyone off, and putting in a sarcastic "baby" mode that slightly reduces the ridiculous time commitments.

I left Punch Club a bad Steam review and returned it, and the dev added me on Steam and sent me a combination of abuse and non-sequiturs until I blocked him, it was as weird as Hell.

Captain Hygiene
Sep 17, 2007

You mess with the crabbo...



Finally got around to booting up GTAV a second time after having it installed for years, and god...I forgot how much I hate the "tap button to run" design philosophy.

RareAcumen
Dec 28, 2012




Playing Genshin Impact makes it very clear that we really need to take a critical eye to stamina meters. The concept sort of makes sense, yes, but if you can fight swinging a sword, greatsword, firing a bow, shooting magic, etc, forever without getting tired you should maybe at the very least be able to sprint across a bridge without collapsing into a ditch wheezing and coughing like a pug, IMO.

Captain Hygiene
Sep 17, 2007

You mess with the crabbo...



I'm a nerd who's been sitting inside for months and even I can run for more than four seconds without stopping to sweat and catch my breath, something that Link, legendary chosen hero of the gods, can't accomplish without a significant amount of extra work.

Lobok
Jul 13, 2006

Say Watt?

I understand the stamina meter's use in limiting a player's escape options. But outside of combat there doesn't seem to be much point in limiting running.

CJacobs
Apr 17, 2011

Reach for the moon!
Nioh and Bloodborne are awesome because you can sprint for loving ever in them. Your stamina specifically drains much slower when you're sprinting vs dodging/rolling and it owns.

dracula vladdy AF
May 6, 2011
Folks, I've played Resident Evil 7 long after the fact and there's a whole bunch of things that bug me about it. For the record I haven't played many of the games before RE4 that much so that's a thing. I get the impression the game is made more for people that enjoy the earlier games with tank controls and more deliberate gameplay.

- I really like the atmosphere and feel of the first hour or two, but I find the game winds up feeling tedious after that point. The slow and deliberate movement starts out cool, but as the game ends up more action oriented, particularly towards the end, it starts feeling not so great. All of the combat encounters in the last couple areas felt really clunky and I didn't find them terribly fun.

- The boss fights basically suck throughout the entire game. I have no idea how a game has a chainsaw duel and it feels like garbage, that just seems insane to me. The fight against Marguerite was pretty cool and felt like a fight from one of the previous games, but beyond that most of the fights felt kinda lovely to me. The last Jack fight in particular felt more like a slog than anything else.

- The whole thing where Jack would grab you and turn you around felt weird and janky. I imagine there's a good reason why he does that, but I still don't really love it.

- The Not A Hero campaign where you play as Chris was pretty much entirely combat which wasn't really my bag to begin with, but they also went and added small, hard to hit enemies for it as well. For any other game I wouldn't care, but the aiming and movement is so slow in general that they felt more tedious than anything else.

- Also Chris' perfect guard mechanic 100% should have been in the main game. It was a lot of fun to take advantage of in spite of everything else.

I think at the end of the day the game is not really for me at all, but it kind of bums me out because I've actually really enjoyed the other games I've played in the series. I can completely understand how other folks like it. I think the game is cool in a lot of respects but I don't really like actually playing it.

dracula vladdy AF has a new favorite as of 05:27 on Oct 25, 2020

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


Ignore my posts!
I'm aggressively wrong about everything!

Lobok posted:

I understand the stamina meter's use in limiting a player's escape options. But outside of combat there doesn't seem to be much point in limiting running.

Putting constraints on movement options, too. Genshin's a Breath of the Wild clone, and in both games, stamina limits flight, climbing, and swimming. It's kinda the only way you can tell the player 'hey, no, you can't go there the easy way'. They either have to level up stamina, or do something loving clever.

Lobok
Jul 13, 2006

Say Watt?

Cleretic posted:

Putting constraints on movement options, too. Genshin's a Breath of the Wild clone, and in both games, stamina limits flight, climbing, and swimming. It's kinda the only way you can tell the player 'hey, no, you can't go there the easy way'. They either have to level up stamina, or do something loving clever.

Totally agree on all that stuff but it was specifically the running that we were talking about. No reason in Tsushima or BotW to limit running time out of combat that I know of. I half-heartedly mentioned in some other thread that maybe it's done to make horses more appealing but that should really be about more than differences in top speed.

Opopanax
Aug 8, 2007

I HEX YE!!!


I replayed Alan Wake recently and the stamina there drove me nuts, guy gets like 5 paces before getting winded. I realize he's a writer and not a marathon runner but he should at least be in better shape than me

Captain Hygiene
Sep 17, 2007

You mess with the crabbo...



Write yourself some better muscles, Alan, gawd :rolleyes:

Manager Hoyden
Mar 5, 2020

dracula vladdy AF posted:

Folks, I've played Resident Evil 7 long after the fact and there's a whole bunch of things that bug me about it. For the record I haven't played many of the games before RE4 that much so that's a thing. I get the impression the game is made more for people that enjoy the earlier games with tank controls and more deliberate gameplay.

- I really like the atmosphere and feel of the first hour or two, but I find the game winds up feeling tedious after that point. The slow and deliberate movement starts out cool, but as the game ends up more action oriented, particularly towards the end, it starts feeling not so great. All of the combat encounters in the last couple areas felt really clunky and I didn't find them terribly fun.

- The boss fights basically suck throughout the entire game. I have no idea how a game has a chainsaw duel and it feels like garbage, that just seems insane to me. The fight against Marguerite was pretty cool and felt like a fight from one of the previous games, but beyond that most of the fights felt kinda lovely to me. The last Jack fight in particular felt more like a slog than anything else.

- The whole thing where Jack would grab you and turn you around felt weird and janky. I imagine there's a good reason why he does that, but I still don't really love it.

- The Not A Hero campaign where you play as Chris was pretty much entirely combat which wasn't really my bag to begin with, but they also went and added small, hard to hit enemies for it as well. For any other game I wouldn't care, but the aiming and movement is so slow in general that they felt more tedious than anything else.

- Also Chris' perfect guard mechanic 100% should have been in the main game. It was a lot of fun to take advantage of in spite of everything else.

I think at the end of the day the game is not really for me at all, but it kind of bums me out because I've actually really enjoyed the other games I've played in the series. I can completely understand how other folks like it. I think the game is cool in a lot of respects but I don't really like actually playing it.

Yeah it was a revolutionary game when it came out but RE7 has issues. You hit the nail on the head when you said the boss fights sucked - they are all spectacle and commit the worst design sin in action games, which is to take control away from the player. So much of the game is just moving from scripting point to scripting point, even during boss fights. Like in the chainsaw fight you mentioned, there's no chainsaw fight. It's just trying to trigger the next script for what happens next and it feels that way. Like as a player there is no use in trying to strategize how your character can win a chainsaw fight - instead you have to find out what triggers the next event and work to make that happen.

The Shame Boy
Jan 27, 2014

Dead weight, just like this post.



CJacobs posted:

No no that's The Witcher, except you play as the penis people continually slip and fall onto. The first two games feature some pretty hilarious sexual non sequiturs; at least the third bothers to ask you if you feel like letting Geralt get his groove on.

I'm currently playing through Witcher 3 as sombody that played a bit of Witcher 2 but never 1, i am way more attached to Triss than i am Yennifer. Like i know Geralt and Yennifer supposedly have a past and all but i went to Skelleige and good GOD can you make Geralt the most clingy, desperate,lovey dubey dude of all time if you pick those dialog options. Like some of the ones that tell her how pretty she is or how nice she smells kinda come out of nowhere sometimes. I know he's kinda been looking for her a long time and all but considering all the other options you can take, even with some of the other sorceresses in the game. It just kinda sticks out you know?

Inspector Gesicht
Oct 26, 2012

500 Zeus a body.


The open-world from Mass Effect 1 was piss-poor and so bad it drove me to stop playing forever given it's numerous issues. Yet at the same time people lamented its removal from the sequels and felt that while the concept wasn't done properly, it did deserve another look-through. I really liked the vehicle levels of Mass Effect 2 because they broke up the cover-shooting, had appealing scenery, and made the galaxy feel big but without any time-wasting. I feel like the mission and hub-design of ME2 could be repeated again to great effect, but with a level-replay and without the missable collectibles and planet-scanning.

What other concepts weren't very good in their usage but really deserve a second-chance?

The Lone Badger
Sep 24, 2007

The Shame Boy posted:

I'm currently playing through Witcher 3 as sombody that played a bit of Witcher 2 but never 1, i am way more attached to Triss than i am Yennifer. Like i know Geralt and Yennifer supposedly have a past and all but i went to Skelleige and good GOD can you make Geralt the most clingy, desperate,lovey dubey dude of all time if you pick those dialog options. Like some of the ones that tell her how pretty she is or how nice she smells kinda come out of nowhere sometimes. I know he's kinda been looking for her a long time and all but considering all the other options you can take, even with some of the other sorceresses in the game. It just kinda sticks out you know?

Geralt (and Yennefer) literally are under a spell that forces them to love each other. Otherwise one of the dozen+ times they've broken up would have stuck.

Kennel
May 1, 2008

BAWWW-UNH!
In Witcher 1 Yen is even less important than in W2. She's barely mentioned at all.

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Kit Walker
Jul 10, 2010
"The Man Who Cannot Deadlift"

The Lone Badger posted:

Geralt (and Yennefer) literally are under a spell that forces them to love each other. Otherwise one of the dozen+ times they've broken up would have stuck.

That’s sorta debatable. I think the true nature of the spell is never made fully clear. They’re bound to each other for sure, but whether that affects their feelings is something that they’re not sure about.

Also, while it is missable, the final romance quest for Yennefer is really good and I’d have had to have a heart as cold as ice to reject her at the end of it

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