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cheetah7071 posted:America clearly does not have a healthy political environment right now, and some form of collapse or major shift in the near future is very plausible. Looking to other countries, past and present, for examples of how that might go down isn't unreasonable. I'd recommend picking somewhere more similar to the US than Rome though Yeah, there is a much more recent example to compare to. Barack Obama was United States' Mikhail Gorbachev. Donald Trump is the Boris Yeltsin.
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Oct 21, 2020 09:30
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As long as we're making semi-serious/semi-ironic historical comparisons I feel like I might as well mention that Paxton's 2004 The Anatomy of Fascism is available on Audible for free if you have a a subscription (that is: for no additional cost beyond that of the subscription), it's a really good analytical/structural look at fascist regimes and (more interestingly for me) both failed fascist movements and regimes where rightists successfully coopted fascists without being overthrown. Worth a listen. E: Although now I feel guilty calling Generalissimo Francisco Franco a "Fascist Fuckstain" but also feel like "Right-Authoritarian Fuckstain" lacks the punchy gravitas of my previous go-to term? 
Schadenboner fucked around with this message at 14:47 on Oct 21, 2020 |
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Oct 21, 2020 14:45
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what's the roman version of a tankie?
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Oct 21, 2020 15:30
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Not on the UK Audible. 
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Oct 21, 2020 15:32
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:what's the roman version of a tankie? A classics major?
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Oct 21, 2020 15:38
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:what's the roman version of a tankie?  Or was he more an ancient Greece tankie?
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Oct 21, 2020 15:47
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Ancient greece but close enough. He had the same mentality of "if society was different I would be the important person calling the shots"
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Oct 21, 2020 15:50
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I was thinking like, at the time of the late republic, what would be the equivalent of a tankie? Dudes going around in trousers with mustaches, or did that only come along in the Empire? Tarquin stans maybe? Would there be Tarquin stans not pitched over the Tarpeian Rock? Junior senators weirdly into Sulla? Also this dumb question made me think of an actual question: did Rome, by the time it became an empire, have much interest in archaeology? It's hard to think of examples because if they wanted to say, read hieroglyphs or learn etruscan, they could just ask. But say, did they have an idea of where the actual city of Troy was, or have any interest in locating it? Would they have cared about figuring out who exactly built the pyramids at Giza?
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Oct 21, 2020 16:10
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There were antiquarians (as distinct from historians), and there was some traffic in ancient artifacts. Augustus collected “objects noteworthy for their antiquity and rarity” according to Suetonius, such as large (fossil) bones and weapons of the heroic age. Archaeology as a modern discipline, not so much. The Romans knew pretty well where Troy was, or figured they did. The philosopher Apollonius of Tyana is supposed to have gone there and spent a night sleeping on the tumulus of Achilles. (Achilles told him in a dream that he should ditch one of his students for being Trojan in ancestry.) skasion fucked around with this message at 17:11 on Oct 21, 2020 |
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Oct 21, 2020 16:31
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Karl Marx posted:When we think about this conjuring up of the dead of world history, a salient difference reveals itself. Camille Desmoulins, Danton, Robespierre, St. Just, Napoleon, the heroes as well as the parties and the masses of the old French Revolution, performed the task of their time – that of unchaining and establishing modern bourgeois society – in Roman costumes and with Roman phrases. The first one destroyed the feudal foundation and cut off the feudal heads that had grown on it. The other created inside France the only conditions under which free competition could be developed, parceled-out land properly used, and the unfettered productive power of the nation employed; and beyond the French borders it swept away feudal institutions everywhere, to provide, as far as necessary, bourgeois society in France with an appropriate up-to-date environment on the European continent. Once the new social formation was established, the antediluvian colossi disappeared and with them also the resurrected Romanism – the Brutuses, the Gracchi, the publicolas, the tribunes, the senators, and Caesar himself. Bourgeois society in its sober reality bred its own true interpreters and spokesmen in the Says, Cousins, Royer-Collards, Benjamin Constants, and Guizots; its real military leaders sat behind the office desk and the hog-headed Louis XVIII was its political chief. Entirely absorbed in the production of wealth and in peaceful competitive struggle, it no longer remembered that the ghosts of the Roman period had watched over its cradle.
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Oct 21, 2020 16:43
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SlothfulCobra posted:Well the specific reasons why you're always gonna see US/Rome comparisons are: Woa hold on there.. you might have a fair point about the US being somewhat alike the Spice Mines of Arrakis and I think you should develop the idea further.
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Oct 21, 2020 16:56
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Spice was extracted via open-sand operations, though?
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Oct 21, 2020 17:11
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There were Sparta weebs, that seems kinda tankie. Although I guess by the late Republic Romans would've had their pick of idols who led reigns of terror on both sides of the political spectrum at the time to creepily obsess about.Dalael posted:Woa hold on there.. you might have a fair point about the US being somewhat alike the Spice Mines of Arrakis and I think you should develop the idea further. The point being that there's a better thread for that.
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Oct 21, 2020 17:16
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SlothfulCobra posted:The point being that there's a better thread for that. That thread is infested with people willing to give money to the new movie (that is, to channel it directly into the hands of the False Herbert, the Lord of Lies Brian), though? 
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Oct 21, 2020 17:22
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America's future can be predicted as well from Dragonlance novels or tea leaves as from the history of Rome.
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Oct 21, 2020 18:51
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American history and politics are obviously a 1:1 analogue to the Zaporizhian Host
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Oct 21, 2020 19:07
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FreudianSlippers posted:American history and politics are obviously a 1:1 analogue to the Zaporizhian Host  Tag yourself.
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Oct 21, 2020 19:14
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You all are using the term "Tankie" wrong by using it as a synonym for Weeb. Being a Tankie is more about excusing away or denying the bad stuff that a state that professes your preferred ideology does. Like the namesake of western communists trying to excuse the Soviet subjugation of Hungary. Being really into a foreign culture and overly romanticizing it and maybe lapping/cosplaying at it is something else. Like the "Helenophiles" of the 1800's
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Oct 21, 2020 20:54
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Dalael posted:Woa hold on there.. you might have a fair point about the US being somewhat alike the Spice Mines of Arrakis and I think you should develop the idea further. arrakis is transparently the middle east
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Oct 22, 2020 00:34
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Tunicate posted:arrakis is transparently the middle east Arrakis is an entirely different planet, though? 
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Oct 22, 2020 00:38
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Also this dumb question made me think of an actual question: did Rome, by the time it became an empire, have much interest in archaeology? It's hard to think of examples because if they wanted to say, read hieroglyphs or learn etruscan, they could just ask. But say, did they have an idea of where the actual city of Troy was, or have any interest in locating it? Would they have cared about figuring out who exactly built the pyramids at Giza? The Assryians had a full fledged museum full of artifacts they thought where important. The idea isn’t really new but the idea of regular people seeing them is.
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Oct 22, 2020 01:18
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Schadenboner posted:
If Rome had a Warlord Titan then maybe it wouldn't have fallen.
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Oct 22, 2020 03:45
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Schadenboner posted:
I'm the skull used as a torch
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Oct 22, 2020 05:22
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You know how if you look at a list of the most valuable export sectors of each US state, aerospace components is number 1 for like a third of all states and in the top 5 for almost all of them, which is less about the actual necessities of building airplanes or any logistical optimization or economic logic, and more about the twisted ouroboros of corrupt relationships between state and industry that we for some reason have made the existential core of our society? My impression is that in the warhammer setting skulls work roughly the same way.
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Oct 22, 2020 11:00
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Being a nerd I know this is true. For reasons they don't understand anymore every computer or AI in warhammer has to be a person or at least pretend. So you have to either have a human brain as the basis or at least enough skull decorations to pretend it has a human soul. Then once you've got an aesthetic on all your computers and machines, might as well extend it to the home decor and cloths too.
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Oct 22, 2020 11:09
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Stringent posted:I was just pointing out that the i-word is at least as offensive as the r-word and has been frequently used in the exact same contexts, so Mr. Nice! should refrain from using it if he's really concerned about the issue. Maybe medically it was used similarly but perhaps you should stop speaking over the people who do have this word used on them outside of that and do the nice thing and oblige Respect isn't hard!!!
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Oct 22, 2020 13:16
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sbaldrick posted:The Assryians had a full fledged museum full of artifacts they thought where important. The idea isn’t really new but the idea of regular people seeing them is. One of the sons of Ramesses II, Khaemweset, studied and restored historic buildings.
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Oct 22, 2020 17:56
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Alhazred posted:One of the sons of Ramesses II, Khaemweset, studied and restored historic buildings. Certainly seems like a nice way to say "Real Estate Developer"?
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Oct 22, 2020 18:00
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sbaldrick posted:The Assryians had a full fledged museum full of artifacts they thought where important. The idea isn’t really new but the idea of regular people seeing them is. I seem to remember the Romans would go on trips to Egypt to look at the marvels the ancients built(the Pyramids). Also Nabonidus, the last king of Babylon before Cyrus took over, wasn't very good at not pissing off his people but he did do archaeological digs, which is kind of neat.
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Oct 22, 2020 19:31
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Alhazred posted:One of the sons of Ramesses II, Khaemweset, studied and restored historic buildings. he had children adventure stories written about him in ancient Egypt, basically an Indiana Jones “ The first tale, dubbed Setne I or Setne Khamwas and Naneferkaptah, describes how Khaemwaset seeks and finds a book of powerful magical spells, the Book of Thoth, in the tomb of Prince Naneferkaptah. Against the wishes of Naneferkaptah's spirit, Khaemwaset takes the book and becomes cursed. Setne then meets a beautiful woman who seduces him into killing his children and humiliating himself in front of the pharaoh. He discovers that this episode was an illusion created by Neferkaptah, and in fear of further retribution, Setne returns the book to Neferkaptah's tomb. At Neferkaptah's request, Setne also finds the bodies of Neferkaptah's wife and son and buries them in Neferkaptah's tomb, which is then sealed.” “ The second tale is known as Setne II or the Tale of Setne Khamwas and Si-Osire. Khaemwaset and his wife have a son named Si-Osire who turns out to be a highly skilled magician. In the first part of the story, Si-Osire brings his father to visit the Duat, the land of the dead, where they see the pleasant fate of the deceased spirits who lived justly and the torments inflicted on spirits who sinned during their lives. In the second part, it is revealed that Si-Osire is actually the ghost of a famous magician from the time of Thutmose III who returned to save Egypt from a Nubian magician. After the confrontation, Si-Osire disappears, and Khaemwaset and his wife have a real son who is also named Si-Osire in honor of the magician.”
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Oct 23, 2020 01:04
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Cool stories bro! No, really. I liked seeing an older version of heaven and hell, but I liked more the other one as a handy linkable counter to "well actually according to the QI elves the idea of tomb curses was invented by a newspaper in 1922".
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Oct 23, 2020 04:50
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One of my favorite tomb curses is "if you disturb my tomb then this guy will hit you on the head with a large stick."
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Oct 23, 2020 08:08
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Alhazred posted:One of my favorite tomb curses is "if you disturb my tomb then this guy will hit you on the head with a large stick." Wear a helmet rob the tomb. Thanks for the instructions.
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Oct 23, 2020 09:39
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Interesting that the story there specifically has something stolen, rather than just a defilement. Labor disputes over their construction often escalated to, "If you send soldiers into the valley we will smash the Pharaohs' sacred monuments with sledge hammers" - but I don't think did "We'll take our own back pay from the tombs"
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Oct 23, 2020 12:22
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Netflix released a series called Barbaren about Arminius and Teutoburgen. It's pretty good and the Romans don't speak posh English, they speak classical Latin with the hard C and V as W.
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Oct 25, 2020 15:40
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Fader Movitz posted:Netflix released a series called Barbaren about Arminius and Teutoburgen. It's pretty good and the Romans don't speak posh English, they speak classical Latin with the hard C and V as W. What do the Germans speak? 
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Oct 25, 2020 15:56
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feedmegin posted:What do the Germans speak? German.
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Oct 25, 2020 16:03
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Looks like a cheesy Vikings knock-off to be honest.
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Oct 25, 2020 16:12
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I strongly recommend Britannia because the show is so goddamn comedic and weird despite someone clearly thinking this is a Big Prestige Historical Drama. It occasionally feels like The Office but with Druids and Romans.
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Oct 25, 2020 18:29
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shirunei posted:Don't waste your time he spouts decades old theories and freshman analysis. I don't know of any alternative podcast but there is books out there by actual scholars with audiobook versions. I read more about late antiquity so people like Guy Halsall, Chris wickham, peter brown, or Bryan Ward-Perkins are a far better use of time If that period interests you. Yeah you have it right. I continued with the series for a while. He continued spouting nonsense, like hoplites using their shield to push the guy in front of them, and the Greeks using phalanxes because they had studied philosophy. When he started to drop Star Wars references I quit. The series is like a podcast version of clickbait sites' listicles.
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Oct 25, 2020 19:03
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