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i'm glad y'all liked the story! The Lower Georgia United Workers' Front votes as follows: Luna: ABCD. The right of self-determination and self-organization should be fundamental to the Comintern. If everyone on Luna were a scientist or a soldier it might be different, but refugees and civilians should be allowed representation. Gladio: ACBD. Never let them see you sweat, but if we're going to do something we might as well do it big Survey Ship Design: B Survey Priorities: BCA S-17: Yes F-18: No, with the Kalmar Union's proviso F-19: Yes JR-20: No. As our collective is currently still engaged in sporadic combat with the Federals and the New Christian League, we believe that a purely exploratory approach to space is noble but limiting. Even were it not for the confirmed existence of at least two extraterrestrial species with military capability, the Hawaiians have shown that the forces of reaction are interested in space as well. We do not want to wake up and find that their ships are now in orbit with the only guns in space. A-21: Yes. Our Lunar comrades need a security force S-22: Yes Y-23: No. Languages have developed and evolved just fine for millennia. We should allow this process to continue.
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Oct 26, 2020 14:02
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- Luna: B, A, C, D. - Gladio: B, A, C, D. - Survey Ships: B - Survey Priorities: C, B , A - S-17, Radiation Cleanup: Yes - F-18, One Million Citizens Autonomy Requirement: No, concurring with the Kalmar Union's proviso. - F-19, A Ship Naming Scheme: Yes - JR-20, The No First Strike Policy: Yes - A-21, the Lunar Self-Defense Forces: Yes - S-22, Logistics Expansion: vote Yes - Y-23, the Constructed Language Study: Yes Yvonmukluk fucked around with this message at 15:36 on Oct 26, 2020 |
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Oct 26, 2020 14:08
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Luna: CDBA Gladio: BCAD Survey Ships: AB Survey Priorities: BCA S-17: Yes F-18: No F-19: Yes JR-20: No A-21: Yes S-22: Yes Y-23: Yes
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Oct 26, 2020 14:31
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Luna: BACD Gladio: BACD Survey Ships: B Survey Priorities: BCA S-17, Radiation Cleanup: Yes F-18, One Million Citizens Autonomy Requirement: No F-19, A Ship Naming Scheme: Yes JR-20, The No First Strike Policy: Yes A-21, the Lunar Self-Defense Forces: Yes S-22, Logistics Expansion: Yes Y-23, the Constructed Language Study: Yes
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Oct 26, 2020 14:48
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The UAWR votes as so: - Luna: ABCD - Gladio: ABCD - Survey Ships:B - Survey Priorities: ABC - S-17, Yes - F-18, Yes - F-19, Abstain - JR-20, Yes - A-21, Yes - S-22, Yes - Y-23, Yes
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Oct 26, 2020 15:27
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Lunagrad: CBDA Gladio: ABCD Survey ships: B Survey priorities: BAC S-17: YES F-18: NO F-19: YES JR-20: YES A-21: NO S-22: NO Y-23: YES Crazycryodude fucked around with this message at 16:35 on Oct 26, 2020 |
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Oct 26, 2020 15:39
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Lunagrad: B - A - D - C GLADIO: A - B - C - D Survey Ships: B Survey Priorities: C - B - A S-17: Yes F-18: Yes F-19: Yes JR-20: Yes A-21: No S-22: Yes Y-23: Yes Hypnobeard fucked around with this message at 17:36 on Oct 27, 2020 |
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Oct 26, 2020 16:19
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Lunagrad: A - B - C - D GLADIO: B - C - A - D Survey ships: B Survey: B - A - C S-17: YES F-18: YES F-19: YES JR-20: YES We are currently incapable of building economically viable warships and know nothing of the wider galaxy. While we know of an armed conflict having taken place between alien powers, without further knowledge to shape our doctrine, building ships now, which will be obsolete anyway within the foreseeable future, is merely a waste of resources. Maybe the construction of a small number of experimental vessels might provide a pool of experienced officers as well as gathering experimental data for future development. A-21: YES S-22: YES Y-23: YES
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Oct 26, 2020 19:35
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Luna C B D A Gladio B A C D Survey Ship Design B Survey Priority C B A S-17 Yes F-18 No F-19 No JR-20 Yes A-21 No S-22 Yes Y-23 Yes
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Oct 26, 2020 19:38
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Antilles posted:Mister Bates, a question/clarification: Just like the Terraforming research apparently can be used to mitigate the environmental damage from nuclear fallout, can we assume the Genome Sequence Research would do something similar? Maybe unlocking new cures/treatments for cancer/radiation poisoning? Correct
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Oct 26, 2020 20:19
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Luna: ABCD Gladio: BACD Survey Ships: B Survey Priorities: BAC S-17: Yes F-18: Yes, I'm not entirely pleased by the simple population threshold, and wish that we could create a more nuanced system, but the right of workers to self organize must be protected F-19: Yes JR-20: Yes, and our armed ships should approach unknown vessels with gun ports open to signify our honesty and openness. A-21: Yes Logistics Expansion: No, we should wait until we have refined the technology a little Y-23: Yes Edited: Changed my vote on F-18 Servetus fucked around with this message at 23:04 on Oct 27, 2020 |
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Oct 26, 2020 20:54
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The California Republic's vote are: Luna: BCAD Gladio: BACD Survey Ships: B Survey Priorities: ABC S-17: Yes F-18: Yes F-19: Abstain JR-20: No, we agree with the other objections A-21: Yes S-22: Yes, but only after the survey ship technological improvements Y-23: No, the ideas are interesting but Californian researchers insist they are impractical. They keeping babbling about 'Big O', whatever that means. When they have concrete proposals, they will be forwarded.
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Oct 26, 2020 21:42
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I'd like to join the game as Alessandra Sekút, speaker in the Commintern for the Neatly-Organized Mobile Autonomous Drifters Collective, also known as the NOMAD Collective, a non-state entity that started as an international coallition of EMTs, mechanics and architects and has quickly swelled with the addition of displaced peoples and refugees, working under the principles of mutual aid and freedom of movement. The large caravans of the NOMAD Collective bring help and resources to marginalized and castigated populations in the aftermath of the GRW. The discovery of TNE's has greatly expanded the tech and capacity of the roving Truckyards and MOHs (Mobile Orthogonal Housing), the greatest one being known as Roverhaus - Luna: BACD An autonomous organizing body is a right for Lunar Citizens, but it's clear that the Luna project has exceeded it's logistic expectations, so it should be monitored by the Comintern for a few years until more infraestructure is properly developed - Gladio: ABCD A soft and subtle approach is paramount, and, if we might be so bold, I recommend an implementation of the ACAB system the NOMADs use, where instead of a perennial police force each case gets assigned an ad-hoc team of professionals (coroners, psycologists, soldiers, anthropologists, etc.) under the authority of an elected security council - Survey Ships: A - Survey Priorities: CBA - S-17, Radiation Cleanup: Yes There are millions of people suffering from the wounds of the war - F-18, One Million Citizens Autonomy Requirement: Yes - F-19, A Ship Naming Scheme: Yes - JR-20, The No First Strike Policy: Yes - A-21, the Lunar Self-Defense Forces: Yes The Gladius incident has shown that violent reactionaries are present and active in the moon - S-22, Logistics Expansion: Yes Logistics are the veins of society - Y-23, the Constructed Language Study: No We don't want another vergonha
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Oct 26, 2020 22:19
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- Luna: BCAD - Gladio: BACD - Survey Ships: B - Survey Priorities: B - S-17, Radiation Cleanup: Yes - F-18, One Million Citizens Autonomy Requirement: Yes - F-19, A Ship Naming Scheme: Yes - JR-20, The No First Strike Policy: No - A-21, the Lunar Self-Defense Forces: Yes - S-22, Logistics Expansion: No (at least until we have better tech or a strong need for these ships) - Y-23, the Constructed Language Study: Yes
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Oct 26, 2020 22:30
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LUNA: BADC GLADIO: BACD SURVEY SHIPS: B SURVEY PRIORITIES: BCA S-17: YES F-18: YES F-19: YES JR-20: YES A-21: YES S-22: YES Y-23: YES
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Oct 26, 2020 22:39
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Roverhaus bracing a Rad Storm in the North American Exclusion Area #3, while on an emergency re-supply mission to a Reclamation Project team
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Oct 27, 2020 02:37
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Lunagrad: BACD Gladio: ABDC Survey ships: BA Survey priorities: ABC S-17: No F-18: Yes F-19: Abstain JR-20: Yes A-21: Yes S-22: Yes Y-23: No
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Oct 27, 2020 03:46
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Pacho posted:Roverhaus bracing a Rad Storm in the North American Exclusion Area #3, while on an emergency re-supply mission to a Reclamation Project team 
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Oct 27, 2020 04:27
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Pacho posted:Roverhaus bracing a Rad Storm in the North American Exclusion Area #3, while on an emergency re-supply mission to a Reclamation Project team 
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Oct 27, 2020 04:39
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- Luna: ABCD - Gladio: CDBA - Survey Ships: BA - Survey Priorities: CBA - S-17, Radiation Cleanup: YES - F-18, One Million Citizens Autonomy Requirement: YES - F-19, A Ship Naming Scheme: YES - JR-20, The No First Strike Policy: YES - A-21, the Lunar Self-Defense Forces: YES - S-22, Logistics Expansion: YES - Y-23, the Constructed Language Study: No - Let us not make the same mistakes and oppression as the nations of Europe did, in eliminating local and regional languages in favor of a single national language. New Afrika would also like to believe that this body has no counterrevolutionary members, but cautions suspicion of those who vote against giving autonomy to colonies. For what reason do we wish to repeat the mercantilism and folly of Britain and France?
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Oct 27, 2020 05:26
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Luna: A > B > C > D There's a million+ people there with no real political representation. That's more people than some Comintern member nations Gladio: B > A > C > D This is still well within the range of lone crazies, not a massive conspiracy Survey ships: B No need to rush these when their going to have years-long missions anyway. Better ships will more than compensate for a slower start Survey Priority: A > C > B Cover the ones we could potentially mine easier first S-17 (radiation cleanup/terraforming speed): No It's a moderately expensive technology (about 1 year of max-speed research) with limited application. We also don't have any biology specialists to run it. F-18 (self rule for 1m+ populations): Yes F-19 (naming for FTL ships): No It's a fine name, but we don't even know if FTL is theoretically possible. There's aliens out there, but they might be native to the solar system or from a generation ship or something. (Also design competition will be extra confusing if every option is named the same) JR-20 (no standing military): No Not firing until fired upon would be a fine policy, but having humanity be unarmed when we know there are aliens with weapons who have engaged in shooting wars nearby is not. Spinning up military training, technology, and ships isn't something we'll be able to do on short notice. (also mechanically, Luna is going to start demanding warships once they get to 10m people, which will happen surprisingly quickly once civilian freighters get going) A-21 (build a training facility, ship it to Luna): No Constructing a new training facility is a lab-sized industrial project. Shipping our existing one back and forth through the power of magic space rocks would be better. S-22 (build 2-4 freighters): No Unless we switched industrial focus to building lunar infrastructure, we don't even have anything that needs hauling right now. Y-23 (adopt a conlang as Comintern official language) No Top-down imposed languages don't have a good societal record, and conlangs seem like a solution in search of a problem.
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Oct 27, 2020 05:30
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Fivemarks posted:New Afrika would also like to believe that this body has no counterrevolutionary members, but cautions suspicion of those who vote against giving autonomy to colonies. For what reason do we wish to repeat the mercantilism and folly of Britain and France? Humanity's place among the stars needs to be not just explicitly internationalist, but transcending the concept of Earth nationalisms all together. The people residing on the Moon obviously have a right to representation and local governance befitting their unique conditions, but creating new independent nations is counter to the socialist project and formalizes divisions we should be eliminating. Incorporation as an autonomous oblast within the Comintern allows for local self-governance while still maintaining the primacy of the socialist project over loyalty to any specific piece of planetary crust and/or regolith. Crazycryodude fucked around with this message at 05:37 on Oct 27, 2020 |
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Oct 27, 2020 05:34
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Crazycryodude posted:Humanity's place among the stars needs to be not just explicitly internationalist, but transcending the concept of Earth nationalisms all together. The people residing on the Moon obviously have a right to representation and local governance befitting their unique conditions, but creating new independent nations is counter to the socialist project and formalizes divisions we should be eliminating. Incorporation as an autonomous oblast within the Comintern allows for local self-governance while still maintaining the primacy of the socialist project over loyalty to any specific piece of planetary crust and/or regolith. We know full well what happens when one papers over local issues with "loyalty to the center'. It got us Jim Crow and the failure of reconstruction. No, in order to fully combat any hint of counterrevolutionary fervor, colonies must be given independence and full, equal membership in the Comintern. It's that, or we are all nothing but slaves to the russians. It may not matter to you, but we will not wish the fate of slavery on any of humankind.
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Oct 27, 2020 05:48
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The Delmarva Commonality, formed from the union of Maryland, Delaware, and parts of Virginia of the former United States, votes as follows: IN REGARDS TO LUNAGRAD'S AUTONOMY: ABCD IN REGARDS TO INVESTIGATING GLADIO: BACD IN REGARDS TO SURVEY SHIP DESIGN: The Commonality votes for RESOLUTION F-16 IN REGARDS TO SURVEY PRIOTIES: ACB IN REGARDS TO PROPOSAL S-17: YEA IN REGARDS TO PROPOSAL F-18: YEA IN REGARDS TO PROPOSAL F-19: YEA IN REGARDS TO PROPOSAL JR-20: YEA, PROVIDED THE NO FIRST STRIKE CLAUSE IS ENFORCED RIGOROUSLY IN REGARDS TO PROPOSAL A-21: YEA IN REGARDS TO PROPOSAL S-22: YEA IN REGARDS TO PROPOSAL Y-23: YEA The Commonality has concerns regarding the enforceability of the "No First Strike" clause of JR-20. What sort of punishments will be meted out? Will they be appropriate? Can sufficient and stalwart evidence be provided to prove beyond all reasonable doubt that those accused of flouting this rule did so flagrantly, intentionally, and maliciously? Will an Admiral be punished on the same scale as a Lieutenant Commander? What evidence is allowed to be submitted? Before the Commonality can fully support JR-20, the MOSA must prove that it can enforce the No First Strike clause in a fair, rigorous, and equal manner across the board. If even one person, no matter how high level they may be, is allowed to break this rule, then what's the point? HereticMIND fucked around with this message at 05:58 on Oct 27, 2020 |
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Oct 27, 2020 05:55
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Luna: CDBA Gladio: DCBA Survey Ship Design: B Survey Priority: BAC S-17: Yes F-18: No F-19: Abstain JR-20: No A-21: Yes S-22: Yes Y-23: Yes
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Oct 27, 2020 12:00
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I would note that I personally consider option C to be the most offensive of the Lunar plans. The status quo simply says "we are not yet ready to consider this" - I disagree, but it allows for future discussions. The "Autonomous Oblast" proposal, however, bars Luna from ever being a full member in good standing of this organisation, from ever having sovereignty over its own affairs. And not just Luna, but every extraterrestrial colony that will ever exist! If option C is permitted then all off-world peoples from now until the end of time shall be considered not fully deserving of the same rights to self-government and self-determination as the peoples of Earth, purely because they are not of Earth. I urge every member to rank option C last, as they surely would any caste system.
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Oct 27, 2020 15:59
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If option C wins then all offworld colonies will be direct parts of the post-national interstellar body the Comintern should become, are we trying to build a unified socialist humanity here or just re-creating the failed bourgeois experiments of the League of Nations and United Nations but with a red coat of paint?
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Oct 27, 2020 16:04
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Until such a time as the nations of Earth are willing to take that step, they should not unilaterally impose it on the peoples of space. We must step forward together, or not at all.
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Oct 27, 2020 16:48
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What reasoning do we have for denying our Lunar comrades the right to self-organization? The arguments thus far seem particularly thin. Suppose we vote down their petition, where does that leave them? Will we send soldiers to Luna to enforce this decision? What if they decide to reject it? Will we have our first interplanetary conflict so early in this new era? We have seen that this Gladio organization, whatever it may be, is present in some form on the moon; this conflict would provide them with plenty of opportunities for further sabotage or even for recruitment. It seems to us that this is a dangerous precedent to set, both morally and strategically.
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Oct 27, 2020 17:14
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Apologies for the late arrival but the People's Republic of Northumbria have been busy skirmishing with royalist remnants from the south and has been unable to spare much attention to the ComIntern's business until now. Lunagrad must be granted full autonomy and independence as soon as practically possible. As former subjects of the United Kingdom we can attest to the danger of allowing colonialist thinking into your government and would lament if the ComIntern made the same mistake. Therefore we vote BACD on the Luna issue While the reports of these Gladio terrorists are indeed threatening we should not allow them to provoke us into being the harsh occupiers the capitalist remnants portray us as. ABCD The PRN supports the decision to delay production of Survey ships until new technology is developed B The PRN believes that the entire solar system should eventually be surveyed, however should limitations have to be imposed it is better to focus on our early potential colony sites and the inner asteroid belt. ACB The PRN supports all efforts to clean up and decontaminate sites destroyed during the recent conflict and therefore votes Yes to S17 We support our brothers in New Afrika's proposals Yes to F18 The PRN also supports the proposal that all extra solar survey ships be named after prominent astronomers and would like to expand the proposal further by requesting all Comintern civilian ships be named for prominent scientists Yes to F-19 The PRN reluctantly votes No on JR-20 while purely peaceful space development is of course the goal we should strive for we cannot remain certain that all our competitors will remain as peaceful as the Hawaiians and to rule out options may leave us undefended prior to the outbreak of any space based unpleasantness. The PRN votes No on A-21 what few forces the Comintern has under it's command are better reserved for in-atmosphere operations at least until we develop a better doctrine for their use in extra-terrestrial operations. In regards to proposal S-22 we vote No we feel our current freighter infrastructure remains adequate. Although we reserve the right to change this should further extra-terrestrial development be carried out. The PRN also votes No on Y23 and instead suggests that the ComIntern devotes funds to establishing a corps of translators and prioritises the development of automated systems capable of the same.
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Oct 27, 2020 17:23
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Serf posted:What reasoning do we have for denying our Lunar comrades the right to self-organization? The arguments thus far seem particularly thin. Suppose we vote down their petition, where does that leave them? Will we send soldiers to Luna to enforce this decision? What if they decide to reject it? Will we have our first interplanetary conflict so early in this new era? We have seen that this Gladio organization, whatever it may be, is present in some form on the moon; this conflict would provide them with plenty of opportunities for further sabotage or even for recruitment. It seems to us that this is a dangerous precedent to set, both morally and strategically. We should also keep in mind that Lunar autonomy is not nationalistic in any sense since it's population has been on Luna for little more than a year. Lunar autonomy is the autonomy of its workers and citizens to organize themselves, not a pledge to sacred regolith
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Oct 27, 2020 18:14
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Serf posted:What reasoning do we have for denying our Lunar comrades the right to self-organization? The arguments thus far seem particularly thin. Suppose we vote down their petition, where does that leave them? Will we send soldiers to Luna to enforce this decision? What if they decide to reject it? Will we have our first interplanetary conflict so early in this new era? We have seen that this Gladio organization, whatever it may be, is present in some form on the moon; this conflict would provide them with plenty of opportunities for further sabotage or even for recruitment. It seems to us that this is a dangerous precedent to set, both morally and strategically. "Self-organization" is different than "sovereignty", and no more are we denying them the right to self-organize than we would deny miners the right to self-organize. Much like the miners, the workers will be represented, but we need strong central planning for a project of this immense scale, might like the great five year plans of old. The proposal is not to quash this, but to make it a joint project. It is not rule from below, but rather joint-rule, and a dissolution of the idea of "nationality" as being any sort of tie. While I hear some say that Lunar autonomy is not nationalistic in any sense, I very much doubt that will remain forever the case, as evidenced by history, and sovereignty is a very different matter entirely. There is also a reason it is an autonomous oblast as a unit of organization, with its own government and organization and a joint planning committee to oversee it. The danger of particularism is exactly because of what you describe. GLADIO is exactly the kind of threat that will take advantage of the fact that Lunagrad is sovereign. Without any joint oversight or involvement, political turmoil and isolation may create new divisions between the terrestrial based Comintern and this would-be Lunar Republic. It seems it is not enough that the world be shattered, but we shall shatter ourselves against the stars and regolith as well. Freudian posted:Until such a time as the nations of Earth are willing to take that step, they should not unilaterally impose it on the peoples of space. We must step forward together, or not at all. You'll find us in the Soviet Union very much in agreement that a unified commonwealth of different nations, republics, and workers is precisely the dream of the Communist International.
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Oct 27, 2020 18:47
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- Luna: CDBA - Gladio: CBDA - Survey Ships: B - Survey Priorities: ABC - S-17, Radiation Cleanup: Yes - F-18, One Million Citizens Autonomy Requirement: No - F-19, A Ship Naming Scheme: Yes - JR-20, The No First Strike Policy: No - A-21, the Lunar Self-Defense Forces: Yes - S-22, Logistics Expansion: No - Y-23, the Constructed Language Study: Yes
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Oct 27, 2020 19:28
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welfarestateofmind posted:"Self-organization" is different than "sovereignty", and no more are we denying them the right to self-organize than we would deny miners the right to self-organize. Much like the miners, the workers will be represented, but we need strong central planning for a project of this immense scale, might like the great five year plans of old. And if the Lunars reject our refusal to recognize their right to self-organization? Will we use force in that situation? We are standing at a precipice that could wind up dooming our mission from the outset. It seems to us that the only responsible decision is to acknowledge their rights as soon as possible, as the other options are dangerously limiting or murky.
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Oct 27, 2020 19:38
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Comrades, while this decision might set a precedent it is hardly an insurmountable one. I'm certain other members are already planning on raising this issue during the next deliberations, the Kalmar Union will certainly submit our own suggestion for a framework for future settlements for the next session.
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Oct 27, 2020 19:44
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Voting will remain open for a few more hours. At the moment, the most contentious issue up for a vote right now, the Luna plan, is looking like B will carry the day barring some last-minute votes, with Option B receiving exactly 50% of first-preference votes so far, A and C in distant second and third place respectively, and no first-preference votes for option D. The vote for JR-20 is extremely close, with Yes currently having a lead of just one vote. Mister Bates fucked around with this message at 21:35 on Oct 27, 2020 |
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Oct 27, 2020 21:19
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Mister Bates posted:Voting will remain open for a few more hours. At the moment, the most contentious issue up for a vote right now, the Luna plan, is looking like B will carry the day barring some last-minute votes, with Option B receiving exactly 50% of first-preference votes so far, A and C in distant second and third place respectively, and no first-preference votes for option D. Do you mean JR-20 or A-21?
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Oct 27, 2020 21:34
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Freudian posted:Do you mean JR-20 or A-21? whoops, fixed! JR-20, the No First Strike Clause, is currently winning by one vote. (A-21, the Lunar Self-Defense Forces, has an extremely comfortable lead and is currently all but guaranteed to pass)
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Oct 27, 2020 21:38
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Mister Bates posted:JR-20, the No First Strike Clause, is currently winning by one vote. Of course the weak will push to declare peace before a shot is fired! The same voices today that seek to limit diplomatic options before we even know what we face will be the first to call for military intervention when we encounter a species of slavers, tyrants, or capitalists. This resolution stands as nothing but a pointless boondoggle that will slow our military response when needed.
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Oct 27, 2020 23:23
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I just started following this so I don't have enough info to do a full vote, but has Luna itself made any decision on whether they want to be independent or part of the Comintern as a whole?
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Oct 27, 2020 23:41
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