[Dune Thread] Gundam Idaho

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phasmid: Jan 16, 2015; Booty Shaker
SILENT MAJORITY

Shoulda put more genetically modified dire wolves to guard the treasure IMO

# ? Oct 22, 2020 20:13

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# ? Jun 8, 2024 01:56

eSports Chaebol: Feb 22, 2005; Yeah, actually, gamers in the house forever,

uber_stoat posted:

is it possible the real deal notes will be released after failson dies? failson would never put them out there, they would lay bare just how uninspired his take on Dune really is.

it used to be that you could ask to see Tolkien's notes since he donated them to the Bodleian Library at Oxford. like you had to be specific about what you wanted but it could just be for your own personal research. i wouldn't be surprised if that's changed since the movies and all though. also his not-so-failson actually published the juicy ones anyway.

say what you will about the editorial choices Christopher Tolkien made in compiling the Silmarillion, at least KJA wasnt involved

# ? Oct 22, 2020 22:14

TK-42-1: Oct 30, 2013; looks like we have a bad transmitter

At least the parts of the silmarillion that didn�t make sense and were dumb we�re just kind of left at that. there didn�t need to be a point by point timeline of every dumb thing that happened.

# ? Oct 22, 2020 22:27

Phanatic: Mar 13, 2007; Please don't forget that I am an extremely racist idiot who also has terrible opinions about the Culture series.

TK-42-1 posted:

At least the parts of the silmarillion that didn�t make sense and were dumb we�re just kind of left at that. there didn�t need to be a point by point timeline of every dumb thing that happened.

Also at points in the Silmarillion the prose is simply gorgeous. Failson Corpsefucker's command of the language is Readers' Digest-level. There's fanfiction that's better-written.

# ? Oct 22, 2020 23:14

Riot Bimbo: Dec 28, 2006

Christopher Tolkein is far and away a better ward of his father's work than Brian Herbert has been.

Frank was a cool author but he was a really bad dad apparently and sometimes I wonder if it's even a little bit of that.

# ? Oct 22, 2020 23:49

skasion: Feb 13, 2012; Why don't you perform zazen, facing a wall?

Riot Bimbo posted:

Christopher Tolkein is far and away a better ward of his father's work than Brian Herbert has been.

Was. He�s dead

Riot Bimbo posted:

Frank was a cool author but he was a really bad dad apparently and sometimes I wonder if it's even a little bit of that.

I�ve never really read up on the Herbert family drama but, of the Tolkien kids, Christopher was definitely the closest to his father professionally and personally.

eSports Chaebol posted:

say what you will about the editorial choices Christopher Tolkien made in compiling the Silmarillion, at least KJA wasnt involved

Guy Gavriel Kay was. Which is better, don�t get me wrong, but still eh

# ? Oct 23, 2020 00:02

kaschei: Oct 25, 2005

skasion posted:

Was. He�s dead

That�s no objection to his being a better steward than Brian Herbert.

# ? Oct 23, 2020 00:11

phasmid: Jan 16, 2015; Booty Shaker
SILENT MAJORITY

Phanatic posted:

Also at points in the Silmarillion the prose is simply gorgeous. Failson Corpsefucker's command of the language is Readers' Digest-level. There's fanfiction that's better-written.

I figure that's the point. Writing at the 7th grade level reaches the broadest number of ppl (in America at least).

# ? Oct 23, 2020 00:16

exmachina: Mar 12, 2006; Look Closer

Brian would be a much better steward if he was dead, tho.

Regarding the end of Chapterhouse, I remember thinking, as a child, hey maybe the Butlerian Jihad is actually the Terminator war, wouldn't that be cool, but I don't remember ever thinking that Krazilec, the gardener's or the Enemy of the HM were thinking machines. If thinking machines were to come back, it would be because the Ixians or their scattering equivalents recreated them, not because they has been in sleep mode for 30 thousand years.

And the text is clear the gardeners are face dancers or at least Tleilaxu creations

CH:D posted:

“They had a Tleilaxu Master, too,” Marty said. “I saw him when they went under the net. I would have so liked to study another Master.”
“Don’t see why. Always whistling at us, always making it necessary to stomp them down. I don’t like treating Masters that way and you know it! If it weren’t for them …”

And the Futar are too, and are wielded by the HM Enemy. So I always thought it was obvious that the HM had, while trying to wield power directly, suborned the Scattering BT, and their creations had rebelled and caused the HM to flee in fear.

Regarding Krazilec, I think it is meant to be a vague threat, I don't think even Leto could have told you exactly what form it would take, just the method of humanities destruction. But remember in Heretics that the forces looking for Duncan, Lucilla and Teg has "prescient searchers". While they could have been human, I always thought they were tools, probably Ixian., Probably using the same tech as the navigation machines. Without Siona and the scattering, any enemy with this tool could find and destroy all humankind.

# ? Oct 23, 2020 00:35

eSports Chaebol: Feb 22, 2005; Yeah, actually, gamers in the house forever,

now that im thinking of tolkien, i think Tom Bombadil is a good comparison to Marty and Daniel. I mean he was much sillier, obviously, but the point is that, an author can intentionally write something into a universe that there is no way to make sense of as a part of the narrative, and the readers just have to learn to accept that there's no way to convincingly theorycraft an explanation. i'll bet that Herbert DIDN'T have concrete plans for who and what they were, but the whole point was that there were forces in the universe beyond even the God Emperor's comprehension

(of course we do know who Tom Bombadil was, he was a child's toy, but still, the idea that there were beings in Middle Earth that the wisest of Elves and perhaps even the Valar didn't understand is cool)

# ? Oct 23, 2020 02:31

Phanatic: Mar 13, 2007; Please don't forget that I am an extremely racist idiot who also has terrible opinions about the Culture series.

eSports Chaebol posted:

now that im thinking of tolkien, i think Tom Bombadil is a good comparison to Marty and Daniel. I mean he was much sillier, obviously, but the point is that, an author can intentionally write something into a universe that there is no way to make sense of as a part of the narrative,

Sure there is!

https://km-515.livejournal.com/1042.html

quote:

The spell that binds Bombadil to his narrow and cursed country was put in place centuries ago by the Valar to protect men and elves. It may last a few decades more, perhaps a few generations of hobbit lives. But when the last elf has gone from the havens and the last spells of rings and wizards unravel, then it will be gone. And Iarwain Ben-Adar, Oldest and Fatherless, who was ruler of the darkness in Middle Earth before Sauron was, before Morgoth set foot there, before the first rising of the sun, will come into his inheritance again. And one dark night the old trees will march westward into the Shire to feed their ancient hatred. And Bombadil will dance down amongst them, clad in his true shape at last, singing his incomprehensible rhymes as the trees mutter their curses and the black and terrible Barrow-Wights dance and gibber around him. And he will be smiling.

# ? Oct 23, 2020 02:38

eSports Chaebol: Feb 22, 2005; Yeah, actually, gamers in the house forever,

of course its livejournal

# ? Oct 23, 2020 02:57

Ingmar terdman: Jul 24, 2006

Hell yeah I just started rereading lotr and read the bombadil chapter today. Perfect timing

kaschei posted:

That’s no objection to his being a better steward than Brian Herbert.

But also this, chris tolkien was a stick in the mud or whatever but he respected and understood the work. Or at very least he didnt write books about sea-dwarves and ultra-mithril and call himself Middle Earth Author

# ? Oct 23, 2020 04:38

Murray Mantoinette: Jun 11, 2005; ＴＨＥＰＯＳＴＳＭＵＳＴＦＬＯＷ; Clapping Larry

Ingmar terdman posted:

ultra-mithril

lol

# ? Oct 23, 2020 05:13

Tree Bucket: Apr 1, 2016; R.I.P.idura leucophrys

Ingmar terdman posted:

Hell yeah I just started rereading lotr and read the bombadil chapter today. Perfect timing

But also this, chris tolkien was a stick in the mud or whatever but he respected and understood the work. Or at very least he didnt write books about sea-dwarves and ultra-mithril and call himself Middle Earth Author

The Astounding Backstory of Tom Bombadil Revealed-!

# ? Oct 27, 2020 10:44

kiimo: Jul 24, 2003

I wonder how many people started reading LOTR and got to Bombadil/Barrow-wights and were like what in the holy gently caress and stopped before they ever got to Bree.

I am trying to think of an equivalent in Dune. I know in the audiobook the missionaria protectiva part made my friend's eyes glass over.

# ? Oct 27, 2020 19:59

THE BAR: Oct 20, 2011; You know what might look better on your nose?

I could see someone getting bored with the sietch stuff, after reading the Harkonnen assault part and realising that battles aren't the focus of Dune.

# ? Oct 27, 2020 21:39

Jewmanji: Dec 28, 2003

On the other end of the spectrum, I find the endless description of Paul navigating the ornithopter through the storm such a slog.

# ? Oct 27, 2020 21:59

phasmid: Jan 16, 2015; Booty Shaker
SILENT MAJORITY

IMO sometimes it helps to read aloud. You can hear more of what he's going for.

# ? Oct 27, 2020 22:36

Ingmar terdman: Jul 24, 2006

Jessica and Paul in the desert can drag, which is perhaps by design. And I still have no idea what is going on in that scene where Jessica falls into a sandpit and they use..battery foam(??) or something to get her out

# ? Oct 27, 2020 23:57

Bubblyblubber: Nov 17, 2014

Hahahahahahahaha How The gently caress Is Getting Bored Real Hahahaha Fremen Just Walk Away From Your Linear Concept Of Time Like Fremen Open Your Other Memory And See Ahead Haha

# ? Oct 28, 2020 00:18

Tree Bucket: Apr 1, 2016; R.I.P.idura leucophrys

Jewmanji posted:

On the other end of the spectrum, I find the endless description of Paul navigating the ornithopter through the storm such a slog.

Shamefully, I tend to skim that section.
It's a good bit of writing; I just... don't wanna read it.

# ? Oct 28, 2020 00:36

busalover: Sep 12, 2020

Ingmar terdman posted:

Jessica and Paul in the desert can drag, which is perhaps by design. And I still have no idea what is going on in that scene where Jessica falls into a sandpit and they use..battery foam(??) or something to get her out

ah good, glad I'm not the only one. that being said, the audiobook version of dune is great, and with all the different voices and the good acting, it never gets boring.

# ? Oct 28, 2020 00:40

Wizchine: Sep 17, 2007; Television is the retina
of the mind's eye.

It's been a long time since my most recent read of Dune, but I imagine navigating through a sandstorm could be thematically linked to navigating the perilous golden path - hence, the extra time spent on it.

# ? Oct 28, 2020 00:43

Prolonged Panorama: Dec 21, 2007; Holy hookrat Sally smoking crack in the alley!

Ingmar terdman posted:

And I still have no idea what is going on in that scene where Jessica falls into a sandpit and they use..battery foam(??) or something to get her out

That scene always struck me as something he came up with very early on, when he was learning about real world dune dynamics and stable slopes and such. It highlights the alien and dangerous nature of the desert, but the way they MacGyver out of it feels out of place.

I almost wonder if it was initially one crisis (losing/recovering the pack) but Frank felt he needed to introduce the bindu suspension Paul does later, so the scene gets repetitive and doubles in length because Paul has to dig out a suspended Jessica first.

# ? Oct 28, 2020 00:59

Applewhite: Aug 16, 2014; by vyelkin; Nap Ghost

Just learned the DUNE movie has been pushed to October 2021, because 2020 is absolutely forbidden to have nice things. If anyone speaks even a kind word to 2020 then in that day and hour all prosperity and beauty and delight of Omelas would wither and be destroyed.

# ? Oct 28, 2020 01:39

Tree Bucket: Apr 1, 2016; R.I.P.idura leucophrys

The orphan of Omelas smears themselves with filth, shouting "triggered yet, libs??"

# ? Oct 28, 2020 02:19

Ingmar terdman: Jul 24, 2006

Prolonged Priapism posted:

That scene always struck me as something he came up with very early on, when he was learning about real world dune dynamics and stable slopes and such. It highlights the alien and dangerous nature of the desert, but the way they MacGyver out of it feels out of place.

I almost wonder if it was initially one crisis (losing/recovering the pack) but Frank felt he needed to introduce the bindu suspension Paul does later, so the scene gets repetitive and doubles in length because Paul has to dig out a suspended Jessica first.

Interesting points. It's telling that they never try to adapt it. Could be cool to see someone augustus gloop their way out of a pile of sand though

# ? Oct 28, 2020 02:30

exmachina: Mar 12, 2006; Look Closer

I am now struck with the insane desire to take a shovel, a backpack, vinegar and baking soda to the nearest beach

# ? Oct 28, 2020 03:54

Flakey: Apr 30, 2009; There's no need to speak. You must only concentrate and recall all your past life. When a man thinks of the past, he becomes kinder.

Creating the foam out of the compass (?) and spice always struck me as weird. Like how much foam are you gonna be making? How much fluid do you have available to you to shore up enough sand to dig out a person?

# ? Oct 28, 2020 17:18

TK-42-1: Oct 30, 2013; looks like we have a bad transmitter

Flakey posted:

Creating the foam out of the compass (?) and spice always struck me as weird. Like how much foam are you gonna be making? How much fluid do you have available to you to shore up enough sand to dig out a person?

I assume spice reacts weird to moisture considering how it's created. Just chalk it up to magic space bakingsoda that makes you trip and dont think too much about it. I'm sure the general concept of wet sand holding back dry loose sand is probably sound in some kind of survival manual but it doesnt really matter all that much.

# ? Oct 28, 2020 18:02

kiimo: Jul 24, 2003

# ? Oct 28, 2020 18:12

Flakey: Apr 30, 2009; There's no need to speak. You must only concentrate and recall all your past life. When a man thinks of the past, he becomes kinder.

TK-42-1 posted:

I assume spice reacts weird to moisture considering how it's created. Just chalk it up to magic space bakingsoda that makes you trip and dont think too much about it. I'm sure the general concept of wet sand holding back dry loose sand is probably sound in some kind of survival manual but it doesnt really matter all that much.

Yeah I'm not hung up on it or anything, but ever since first reading that part as a teen I always had a hard time imagining what that scene looked like.