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Cooked Auto posted:Even if they've become common enough for them to evolve a splinter hive fleet that specialises in dealing with daemons. Well with the change to the setting, that is the Eye of Terror becoming a giant warp rift splitting the galaxy due to the destruction of Cadia at the hands (or lack of hands) of Abaddon, I imagine there will be a lot more situations where the Nids and the Chaos Demons can fight without the Demons just disappearing.
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Oct 28, 2020 11:10
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White Coke posted:"We hosed up and destroyed our galactic empire because our cruelty and decadence created a god of depravity, but once enough of us die we're going to make a new god (intentionally this time) to kill the other new god we made that killed all our other gods, and then we're going to re-establish our galactic empire." This is why I always destroy Os'tara in BFGA2.  Lord_Magmar posted:Well with the change to the setting, that is the Eye of Terror becoming a giant warp rift splitting the galaxy due to the destruction of Cadia at the hands (or lack of hands) of Abaddon, I imagine there will be a lot more situations where the Nids and the Chaos Demons can fight without the Demons just disappearing. To the point that there's a whole new Hive-Fleet specifically dedicated to killing Chaos, to the point that other hive-fleets sometimes overwhelm and soup-ify planets, then leave so Kronos (the Chaos fighters) can eat up because daemons don't have biomass to be consumed. On a note regarding the actual update: I like hauling worker units in a transport with my main force to repair my combat vehicles between fights. It protects them a bit and helps them keep up with the force, and they can also hop out to build forward production facilities. Cythereal fucked around with this message at 14:00 on Oct 28, 2020 |
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Oct 28, 2020 13:18
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Lord_Magmar posted:Except until they did in fact make that god they assumed doing so would require literally ever living Eldar Soul. Many of them were extremely willing to hold out as long as they could to create just a few more Eldar (and kill demons/monkeigh/whatever) and then fully accepting that their entire race will die defying and slaying Slaanesh. Well, it united SOME of them. Most craftworlders think that Ynnead (the new God of the Dead) was woken up too soon/without enough Eldar deaths and is too weak, most Harlequins don't think the Ynnari are doing enough to fight Chaos or are doing it wrong, most Kabalites are
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Oct 28, 2020 15:47
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Well while the shadow in the warp can overwhelm lesser demons, the greater demons, demon lords, ie big motherfuckers can probably slug it out toe to toe with the Hivemind. Some of the demons described in lore and books are planet sized.
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Oct 28, 2020 16:54
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Technowolf posted:Well, it united SOME of them. Most craftworlders think that Ynnead (the new God of the Dead) was woken up too soon/without enough Eldar deaths and is too weak, most Harlequins don't think the Ynnari are doing enough to fight Chaos or are doing it wrong, most Kabalites are this entire thing is something we touch on in depth in the next episode, aka the podcast
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Oct 28, 2020 16:57
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Lord_Magmar posted:Except until they did in fact make that god they assumed doing so would require literally ever living Eldar Soul. Many of them were extremely willing to hold out as long as they could to create just a few more Eldar (and kill demons/monkeigh/whatever) and then fully accepting that their entire race will die defying and slaying Slaanesh. Eldar souls remain conscience after death which is why Slaanesh is so terrifying to them. Prior to the birth of Slaanesh they were able to reincarnate, they might not be able to do that if every Eldar is dead, but who knows it's all made up and maybe the Haemonculi could set up some vats to grow more Eldar before everyone dies or maybe the Eldar would just become quasi-daemons.
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Oct 28, 2020 19:19
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White Coke posted:Eldar souls remain conscience after death
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Oct 28, 2020 21:30
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Gives 'em a mean swirly.
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Oct 28, 2020 21:49
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Lord_Magmar posted:Except until they did in fact make that god they assumed doing so would require literally ever living Eldar Soul. Many of them were extremely willing to hold out as long as they could to create just a few more Eldar (and kill demons/monkeigh/whatever) and then fully accepting that their entire race will die defying and slaying Slaanesh. As I understand it, their new god is not suitably powerful, because, in the most Eldar thing possible, their most powerful seer enlisted the Harlequinns, collected all the soulstones, performed the ritual, and Ynnaed required just one more death. His. Which he refused to give it. So their new god isn't quite the avatar of death that was planned
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Oct 28, 2020 21:51
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Poil posted:What happens if you flush one of their soul thingies (phylactery?) down the toilet? Justice.
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Oct 28, 2020 22:17
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I thought it was because the Deathwatch heard that the perfidious Eldar were up to some big ritual, decided they weren't going to allow of that nonsense, and disrupted it. Not realising that the new Eldar god was primarily going to be targeting Slaanesh. But then, their credo is 'suffer not the alien to live' (even moreso than other Space Marines), so they were staying on brand at least.
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Oct 28, 2020 22:34
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Angry Lobster posted:Justice. And now I'm imagining this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msXyruGpfNw except it's Coolguye and Eldar soulstones. "You flush one down, it swirls around, nine hundred and ninety nine elves to flush down!"
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Oct 28, 2020 22:41
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Yvonmukluk posted:I thought it was because the Deathwatch heard that the perfidious Eldar were up to some big ritual, decided they weren't going to allow of that nonsense, and disrupted it. Not realising that the new Eldar god was primarily going to be targeting Slaanesh. But then, their credo is 'suffer not the alien to live' (even moreso than other Space Marines), so they were staying on brand at least. tbf 99% of the time and Eldar decides to do magic it ends up badly for just about everybody, so this is more of an 'ounce of caution' scenario.
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Oct 28, 2020 23:17
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Veloxyll posted:As I understand it, their new god is not suitably powerful, because, in the most Eldar thing possible, their most powerful seer enlisted the Harlequinns, collected all the soulstones, performed the ritual, and Ynnaed required just one more death. Yeah, that's... you pretty much covered it there, the most Eldar thing possible.
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Oct 29, 2020 00:39
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Poil posted:What happens if you flush one of their soul thingies (phylactery?) down the toilet? If you break a soul stone then the soul inside it gets released. Soul stones also prevent the Eldar's soul from being drained away by Slaanesh which happens all the time to an Eldar when they aren't wearing one. Harlequins don't need them because their god protects their souls and the Dark Eldar don't use them but have found that they can rejuvenate themselves by draining life energy from their victims. They also have incredibly advance medical technology, so they can be brought back to life by being regrown from a toe.
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Oct 29, 2020 01:11
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Most Harlequins have their souls protected by Cegorach. Solitaires on the other hand choose to be damned in order to fulfill their various duties. One of which is, well, acting as Slaanesh in The Dance. Solitaires are hardcore.
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Oct 29, 2020 02:16
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In spite of all the elfchat, the weirdest part of this episode to me was that a 40k inquisitor was worried that the space marines were seeing heresy where there was none. My experience with the setting is pretty much entirely limited to the DoW games and TTS, but I thought incredible paranoia about heresy was the inquisition's whole shtick.
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Oct 29, 2020 02:17
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Technowolf posted:tbf 99% of the time and Eldar decides to do magic it ends up badly for just about everybody, so this is more of an 'ounce of caution' scenario. And let's be real here, murdering the gently caress out of xenos is literally the Deathwatch's job description, so they didn't really need much encouragement on that one.
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Oct 29, 2020 02:19
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Grizzwold posted:In spite of all the elfchat, the weirdest part of this episode to me was that a 40k inquisitor was worried that the space marines were seeing heresy where there was none. My experience with the setting is pretty much entirely limited to the DoW games and TTS, but I thought incredible paranoia about heresy was the inquisition's whole shtick. Inquisitors have all sorts of motives, and this one's motive is clearly "GET THESE SPACE MARINES OFF THE loving PLANET IMMEDIATELY"
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Oct 29, 2020 02:20
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Grizzwold posted:In spite of all the elfchat, the weirdest part of this episode to me was that a 40k inquisitor was worried that the space marines were seeing heresy where there was none. My experience with the setting is pretty much entirely limited to the DoW games and TTS, but I thought incredible paranoia about heresy was the inquisition's whole shtick. Without spoiling story stuff, don't you worry, Toth has his own thing going on.
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Oct 29, 2020 02:25
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Good Inquisitors also understand that they and their acolytes can't be everywhere at once, so any time they waste on false leads and random bullshit is less time spent on discovering and thwarting that Tzeench cult in a Hive World's undercity that's about to sacrifice an entire hab spire to summon some greater demon, or maybe uncovering a genestealers cult that's been taking root into an Imperial Navy battlegroup.
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Oct 29, 2020 02:29
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Grizzwold posted:In spite of all the elfchat, the weirdest part of this episode to me was that a 40k inquisitor was worried that the space marines were seeing heresy where there was none. My experience with the setting is pretty much entirely limited to the DoW games and TTS, but I thought incredible paranoia about heresy was the inquisition's whole shtick. A lot of them are, but some of them can be quite reasonable. Generally the older an Inquisitor is the less batshit crazy they are for immediate destruction and the more open to other options they become. Largely because the ones who are batshit crazy die faster, and the ones who learn to (reasonably) compromise are well liked and live long and successful careers, until they go crazy or become a threat to the rest of the inquisition and summarily get executed themselves. It's a fairly complicated hierarchy, like most things not Space Marine in the Imperium. Deep Dish Fuckfest posted:Good Inquisitors also understand that they and their acolytes can't be everywhere at once, so any time they waste on false leads and random bullshit is less time spent on discovering and thwarting that Tzeench cult in a Hive World's undercity that's about to sacrifice an entire hab spire to summon some greater demon, or maybe uncovering a genestealers cult that's been taking root into an Imperial Navy battlegroup. Also this. Especially when it's the efforts of Space Marines that might be wasted. The Inquisitors don't really get into the abject worship/reverence for Space Marines that can be common amongst the Imperial military (depending on where you are and who you're talking for) but they understand how valuable a Space Marine in the right place is. Seeing as they're one of the only organisations allowed to request a Space Marine take leave from his Chapter to help them out, and the Ordos Xenos is in charge of the Deathwatch.
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Oct 29, 2020 02:36
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Woo, Dawn of War! It didn't get me in to 40k originally - Space Crusade and the Epic Space Marine box set did that in the early 90s when I was still single digit aged - but it's what got me back into it in adulthood. Gabe is technically incorrect in his briefing when he says that the Inquisition doesn't have the power to commandeer the Astartes. In theory, the authority of an Inquisitor is absolute, and they answer only to Inquisitor Lords and the Emperor Himself, and absolutely have the power to tell even the Ultramarines what to do. In practice, however, an Inquisitor wields only as much power as he can wield, as tautological as that sounds. A fresh Inquisitor will have relatively little personal power and will have a hard time convincing an ordinary Battle Brother to do what he asks, while someone like Lord Kryptmann in actuality can, and does, order Ultramarines around. Or, at least, could have done, before Guilliman returned. He doesn't really have to answer to anyone. If you want to see what Warp Spider weapons might do to a person, watch the start of Cube.
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Oct 29, 2020 03:09
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Cradok posted:Woo, Dawn of War! It didn't get me in to 40k originally - Space Crusade and the Epic Space Marine box set did that in the early 90s when I was still single digit aged - but it's what got me back into it in adulthood. Not sure about that. My understanding was that Space Marines are apart from all the usual chains of command which has issues meshing with what Inquisitors can do. So in the end it boils down to a mixture of politics and strength. Highly powerful inquisitors can apply enough pressure on an average space marine chapter that they will relent and do as told but highly powerful chapters can tell pretty much every inquisitor in the galaxy to go gently caress off if they try throwing around their authority like that.
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Oct 29, 2020 04:20
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NGDBSS posted:Most Harlequins have their souls protected by Cegorach. Solitaires on the other hand choose to be damned in order to fulfill their various duties. One of which is, well, acting as Slaanesh in The Dance. Solitaires are hardcore. They aren't just damned they're completely souless, being the only species other than humans who have Blanks since the Retcroning. And Cegorach has the opportunity to try and win their souls back when they die so I'm technically correct  . Hunt11 posted:Not sure about that. My understanding was that Space Marines are apart from all the usual chains of command which has issues meshing with what Inquisitors can do. So in the end it boils down to a mixture of politics and strength. Highly powerful inquisitors can apply enough pressure on an average space marine chapter that they will relent and do as told but highly powerful chapters can tell pretty much every inquisitor in the galaxy to go gently caress off if they try throwing around their authority like that. I think that legally Inquisitors do have the power to command Space Marines and just about anyone other than maybe the High Lords of Terra, but like you said there's what's legal and what's possible. If an Inquisitor starts throwing their weight around they'll get killed and their death will be signed off on by another Inquisitor so it's all good and legal.
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Oct 29, 2020 06:15
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the distinction is that higher ranking inquisitors technically CAN push space marines around, but there needs to be a sufficient emergency to commandeer such a precious resource and typically if such an emergency is present the situation is dire enough that if the space marines tell the inquisitor to go jump in the lake there won't be sufficient time to appeal to the power structure that could compel the matter, and if the inquisitor had the actual physical assets to compel cooperation they wouldn't need the space marines the first place. so in practice an inquisitor asks and the space marines say yes or no based upon how much they want to do the thing and how persuasively they are asked.
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Oct 29, 2020 08:15
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White Coke posted:
I think that trying to override the authority of a Brother-Captain would require Toth to actively accuse him of being a heretic, and Toth seems to be the more reasonable kind of Inquisitor who doesn't just jump straight to accusations without actual proof. Plus, even the most radical Inquisitor isn't going to jump on accusing a Space Marine of heresy without some firm ground to stand on. DoW really does seem like it wanted to show the Imperium as it runs with actual, reasonable people and not screaming madmen. In the same way Gabriel is an actual reasonable commander who tries to act thoughtfully, Toth is also kind of the 'reasonable Inquisitor' who is actively trying to do his job while causing as few problems as possible.
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Oct 29, 2020 08:19
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I still wish for a proper Inquisition RPG, something more along the lines of Deus Ex or VtM Bloodlines rather than the Diablo-esque game that is Martyr.
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Oct 29, 2020 08:29
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IMJack posted:I still wish for a proper Inquisition RPG, something more along the lines of Deus Ex or VtM Bloodlines rather than the Diablo-esque game that is Martyr. I can definitely see an action-RPG where you see heresy in every corner, and then in the end it turns out literally every NPC really is a heretic and you weren't just paranoid.
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Oct 29, 2020 08:41
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Yvonmukluk posted:I thought it was because the Deathwatch heard that the perfidious Eldar were up to some big ritual, decided they weren't going to allow of that nonsense, and disrupted it. Not realising that the new Eldar god was primarily going to be targeting Slaanesh. But then, their credo is 'suffer not the alien to live' (even moreso than other Space Marines), so they were staying on brand at least. The Deathwatch DID show up, but were too late. If Ser Poncypants the space elf had committed, he would have completed the ritual despite the best efforts of the Spice Marines. But, like I said, Peak Eldar
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Oct 29, 2020 09:29
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Veloxyll posted:As I understand it, their new god is not suitably powerful, because, in the most Eldar thing possible, their most powerful seer enlisted the Harlequinns, collected all the soulstones, performed the ritual, and Ynnaed required just one more death.
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Oct 29, 2020 10:00
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From what I can find out, it's not actually that it would've required his sacrifice. He got shot with a plasma bolt and instead of ignoring it to continue the ritual he took a small fraction of the power of the ritual to stop himself from dying, which caused the Ritual to be incomplete. So yes, he didn't die to complete it, but he didn't need to die to complete it, it's just if he had died it would've been complete. The whole point of the ritual was that it wouldn't require every Eldar (or even a single Eldar) to die, it would summon Ynnead through the collective power of every dead Eldar Seer even channeled through the Infinity Circuits. Unfortunately doing so would disable every Craftworld and damage the Astronomicon, an acceptable sacrifice. It did not do this because it was interrupted, but it was enough to wake up Ynnead and have it search for followers. The current Yncarne (Incarnation of Ynnead) comes from a different ritual that Eldrad performed which killed 3 of his allied Seers and caused him to be exiled from his Craftworld. He's promptly joined the Ynnari and is now guiding them to fully awaken Ynnead without all Eldar dying.
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Oct 29, 2020 10:30
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Lord_Magmar posted:From what I can find out, it's not actually that it would've required his sacrifice. He got shot with a plasma bolt and instead of ignoring it to continue the ritual he took a small fraction of the power of the ritual to stop himself from dying, which caused the Ritual to be incomplete. To be fair, that's STILL peak Eldar
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Oct 29, 2020 10:41
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Gothsheep posted:I can definitely see an action-RPG where you see heresy in every corner, and then in the end it turns out literally every NPC really is a heretic and you weren't just paranoid. That's just your run of the mill genestealer infestation in the vicinity of the Eye of Terror.
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Oct 29, 2020 10:57
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IMJack posted:I still wish for a proper Inquisition RPG, something more along the lines of Deus Ex or VtM Bloodlines rather than the Diablo-esque game that is Martyr. Isn't that what Streum On are doing next? On the one hand, Deathwing was a disappointment, on the other, EYE is pretty much that already. 
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Oct 29, 2020 13:54
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Coolguye posted:the distinction is that higher ranking inquisitors technically CAN push space marines around, but there needs to be a sufficient emergency to commandeer such a precious resource and typically if such an emergency is present the situation is dire enough that if the space marines tell the inquisitor to go jump in the lake there won't be sufficient time to appeal to the power structure that could compel the matter, and if the inquisitor had the actual physical assets to compel cooperation they wouldn't need the space marines the first place. I think this is something a lot of people forget when they talk about the Inquisition. At the end of the day they need to work with the other branches of the Imperium to get their job done and that means maintaining a good relationship with them because no amount of threatening and waving your Rosette around is going to get the Administratum to work any faster once you've pissed them off.
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Oct 29, 2020 14:31
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Plus, the thing about the Inquisition is that there's not that many of them, whereas the thing about everything else in 40k is that there's a functionally limitless number of them. They're incredibly effective when applied correctly, but they're not really suited for open conflict and they have a lot more options when they've got some spare bodies to work with.
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Oct 29, 2020 14:43
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Admittedly the Inquisitor can probably go walk over to the nearest Shrine/Monastery/Church that has Sisters of Battle Present and tell them he needs them to come deal with some Heresy. It may result in whatever administratum asset being unfortunately burnt EXTRA-Crispy, but the survivors will be much much more motivated.
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Oct 29, 2020 15:15
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Just found this LP, real good stuff. Looking forward to seeing the rest.ThingOne posted:I think this is something a lot of people forget when they talk about the Inquisition. At the end of the day they need to work with the other branches of the Imperium to get their job done and that means maintaining a good relationship with them because no amount of threatening and waving your Rosette around is going to get the Administratum to work any faster once you've pissed them off. Yeah, what you need to get about the Imperium is that barring exceptional circumstances there really isn't a unified central government as we know it as much as there is a whole bunch of overlapping factions and bureaucracies that are supposed to work together but most often consider protecting their own position and privileges as the overriding priority. So even if you have legal authority over some other part of the Imperial government it's not a given that you have actual authority over them, which extends to the Inquisition who do theoretically have absolute authority but in practice they too have to wrangle away the resources they need from other quasi-independent parts of the Imperial bureaucracy who have their own agendas. Kinda comes with the fact that the Imperium is a dictatorship where the dictator is a mummified husk on life support, so unless someone a bit more not-dead manages to make themselves dictator there's no ultimate authority that can whip everybody into line. I suppose that's one of the reasons why Guilliman returning was such a big deal, not just because he's a freaking Primarch but also because it meant that there is someone who can force everybody to actually cooperate for once.
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Oct 29, 2020 15:29
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Meh, Guiliman is a second rate primarch though. Sure, he can bureaucrat with the best of them but the imperium needs real leadership and know how to fix. Only Vulkan coming back could do that, as he is objectively the best Primarch
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