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In a purely geopolitical sense I think the best option would be to perform surgery on caeser, help out NCR as much as possible, and then do the house ending. Yes man leaves only the courier alive to control the mojave, and once he dies it's gonna go to poo poo like the legion will. The NCR is exactly incompetent enough to take a victory at the drat as an invitation to invade legion territory which'll be a loving bloodbath. It'll be like the free planets alliance invading imperial territory if you've seen legend of the galactic heroes. Caesar being alive but losing will hopefully allow him to refocus on turing the post apocalyptic worlds largest group of raiders into an actual society, instead of fixating on his dumbass hegelian ideals. And if he still tries to take the dam well terror tactics, small arms, and booby traps are not exactly effective against killer robots. And I'll take caeser everytime as a leader vs loving lanius. House for all his insane dictatorial technocratical ideas. Seems like a stable dude who'll keep things reasonably safe for the people in his territory. He's also ironically the only truly forward thinking character in the game which is always interesting
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Oct 29, 2020 09:52
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Oct 29, 2020 09:59
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I wish someday there is a decently large survey conducted to find out which endings of NV people prefer. I've seen some online polls of vaguely decent size and Steam achievements that seem to confirm NCR and Yes Man are the top two with House a distant third and Legion a very distant fourth. But I'd like more conclusive evidence. Yes Man really is the only route where the people of the Mojave have a say in the ending, especially if you are Good-aligned Courier who has fixed th various towns in such a way. Every other route, including House's, is an invader coming in to exploit the Mojave for their own ends. Whether or not things will turn out well is another matter but it's just a plain fact that, if you care about self-determination, Yes Man is the only real choice.
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Oct 29, 2020 10:12
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Yes Man is the ending where you are just the next Mr. House, dictating the Mojave your vision of what's best for them with an army of death dealing robots.
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Oct 29, 2020 10:15
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My vision for the Mojave is gay communism so this works out.
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Oct 29, 2020 10:17
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steinrokkan posted:Yes Man is the ending where you are just the next Mr. House, dictating the Mojave your vision of what's best for them with an army of death dealing robots. You can destroy the Securitron Army and still do Yes Man. It's the only way to live up to the No Gods, No Masters quest title.
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Oct 29, 2020 10:19
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Destroying the securitrons is objectively immoral as long as threats like the tumblers, ghost people, and death claws exist that they could deal with without the loss of human life
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Oct 29, 2020 10:21
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NCR is the best, but only if you dont do anything NCR tells you but going above and beyond to build bridges and be diplomatic edit: thats basically fallout 2 anyways you can either diplomatically resolve things or NCR fucks up or dies etc etc Berke Negri fucked around with this message at 10:27 on Oct 29, 2020 |
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Oct 29, 2020 10:24
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I absolutely do not trust the NCR to not totally fucj things up the second the courier leaves. They literally cannot solve a single problem in the game without some stranger coming in and taking care of it for 'em.
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Oct 29, 2020 10:29
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the ncr wouldnt exist without a single PC strolling into town and fixing problems in shady sands 200 years ago every fallout game is dependent on this
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Oct 29, 2020 10:31
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NikkolasKing posted:Every other route, including House's, is an invader coming in ???
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Oct 29, 2020 10:45
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house always gets it, die little poo poo just read every robco terminal if you need to know why
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Oct 29, 2020 11:01
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House saved vegas once and is trying to save it again. Caeser makes women second class citizens and NCR can't deal with a jailbreak they themselves caused. House is the only way forward.
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Oct 29, 2020 11:06
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If you wanted to make the arguement, House is geographically close, but in all other ways extremely distant from the actual people of the Mojave. On the Legion being unpopular, I guess part of the issue is that writing that manages to communicate the level of gravitas and charisma that Caesar is supposed to possess is going to be incredibly difficult. Caesar's Legion is essentially a massive cult of personality, and if you can't convince the player to buy into the idea of Caesar; then they're never going to be able to overlook various failings of the Leigon. Vagabong fucked around with this message at 11:16 on Oct 29, 2020 |
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Oct 29, 2020 11:14
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If you don't kill House with Nephi's Golf Driver's unique Fore! attack then you're playing the game wrong Eat him too for added disrespect
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Oct 29, 2020 11:17
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JustaDamnFool posted:If you wanted to make the arguement, House is geographically close, but in all other ways extremely distant from the actual people of the Mojave. House is the only native Mojave option. NCR, Caesar and the Courier are all outsiders.
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Oct 29, 2020 11:21
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legion is basically ISIS even if obsidian had time to flesh out more content for them they couldnt make them a palatable option
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Oct 29, 2020 11:28
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Byzantine posted:House is the only native Mojave option. NCR, Caesar and the Courier are all outsiders. That's my point though, House lives in the Mojave but he had barely anything to do with it for 200 years. Just because he was physically present in the Lucky 38 doesn't make him less of an outsider to the actual people of the Mojave.
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Oct 29, 2020 11:29
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house only showed up once he realized the NCR had discovered the dam and killed all the locals that didnt want to play ball made everyone else into his image he wanted
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Oct 29, 2020 11:33
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Berke Negri posted:legion is basically ISIS even if obsidian had time to flesh out more content for them they couldnt make them a palatable option If they had given us just one legion town completely un affected by the war and peaceful it might've driven home there safety and security over all philosophy. Or had original ulysses as a companion and have him constantly mention how none of the problems your dealing with would be a problem in legion territory. JustaDamnFool posted:That's my point though, House lives in the Mojave but he had barely anything to do with it for 200 years. Just because he was physically present in the Lucky 38 doesn't make him less of an outsider to the actual people of the Mojave. I wouldn't consider the Roman larpers or the completely detached NCR leadership to be any better. At least house has a vested interest in keeping the strip running, and safe. Yes man's kinda a non answer cause the exact same wars gonna be playing out in forty years when the courier dies.
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Oct 29, 2020 11:36
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I always interpreted (my) Wildcard ending as leaving the communities of the Mojave to run themselves autonomously tbh. The NCR has the means to help the Mojave but not the will, while places like Freeside or wherever are capable of helping themselves but kept away from sources of wealth by securitrons and NCR imperialism. Solution: protracted people’s war.
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Oct 29, 2020 11:39
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The wildcard ending is actually quite interesting from a lore perspective, because you can either do the absolute least or absolute most in the wasteland with the ending. You can tell Yes Man you are going to ignore basically everyone and finish the game incredibly fast, which is basically ceding the Mojave to anarchy, or you can meticulously travel to every community and solve their problems to gain their trust and become a popular leader with a focus on independence and security. I don't think it's possible to make a general projection on every Yes Man ending like it is for the other three. I find if you complete all the companion quests the yes man ending definitely is the happiest when it comes to your companions and that does allow you to extrapolate how the different populations they came from would be treated. The biggest shame in a completionist Yes Man ending is that there is no way for the followers to flourish, they get swamped by refugees and lose hold. Which sucks because I need to go independent to please my Husbando Arcade
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Oct 29, 2020 11:52
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Lightningproof posted:I always interpreted (my) Wildcard ending as leaving the communities of the Mojave to run themselves autonomously tbh. The NCR has the means to help the Mojave but not the will, while places like Freeside or wherever are capable of helping themselves but kept away from sources of wealth by securitrons and NCR imperialism. Solution: protracted people’s war. Go look up the history of poland to see what happens when you leave a weak power between two expansionist states. Also the followers are doomed to misery because they have no actual goals or purpose. They're so busy trying to put people in rehab or deal with their minor problems they've lost sight that people are still living in a radioactive hellhole. Without a state to protect them ordinary people are doomed to be at the mercy of raiders, death claws, and whatever other godforsaken dangers exist in the wastes.
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Oct 29, 2020 12:13
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Gaius Marius posted:Go look up the history of poland to see what happens when you leave a weak power between two expansionist states. I must have missed the lesson covering Poland’s army of laser-and-missile equipped deathbots.
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Oct 29, 2020 12:26
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The Courier does control one of the strongest standing armies in the known world with the upgraded securitrons. The number you see in game is constrained by the engine and is implied to be far greater, and they are known to be worth many men their number. They're controllable murder bots that can presumably be repaired and have lasted 200 years already. It's stated that taking the strip just with the securitrons there at MK1 would be costly for even the NCR, and you can end the game with a huge number more of the MK2 units with 235% greater combat efficiency or whatever house/yes-man quotes. I did enjoy that if you dome house without ever talking to him and install yes man immediately with the platinum chip you get a variation of the combat demonstration that I'd not seen before because I usually take the caps before killing him. So independence, but with a huge fuckoff army to protect the courier's allies. Not to mention that if you add in the dlc the courier can have technological advances in excess of the pre-war peak. You could conquer America if you wanted, and there is even a cut OWB ending as well as a game-over Dead Money ending that imply that A completionist courier is arguably one of the greatest forces in the Fallout lore
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Oct 29, 2020 12:27
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Gaius Marius posted:The NCR is exactly incompetent enough to take a victory at the drat as an invitation to invade legion territory which'll be a loving bloodbath. It'll be like the free planets alliance invading imperial territory if you've seen legend of the galactic heroes. Holy poo poo, I've never thought of it that way. The NCR is filled with Forks/Falks so it'd be an absolute disaster.
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Oct 29, 2020 12:32
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The NCR is the epitome of take vs hold expansionism It's like playing CiV and immediately making every city you take a full fledged metropolis with full demands and zero output, instead of making a vassal or just burning it down. The NCR are, ironically, Rome's AI
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Oct 29, 2020 12:40
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BurritoJustice posted:The Courier does control one of the strongest standing armies in the known world with the upgraded securitrons. The number you see in game is constrained by the engine and is implied to be far greater, and they are known to be worth many men their number. They're controllable murder bots that can presumably be repaired and have lasted 200 years already. And so the independent Courier is posed to become a paranoid tinpot dictator completely detached from reality.
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Oct 29, 2020 12:50
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The problem with the securitrons deterrence independent mojave idea is that there's no way to stop any sort of subversion of the status quo that isn't an armed threat. Lets say you have an independent mojave, you've done everything right, and all the communities are free to govern themselves as they see fit. Well what happens when the NCR starts telling them about all the great tax breaks they'll get if the agree to annexation. Or when the NCR starts "resettling" it's on citizens in good springs and suddenly they wanna be part of california. If you stop them you've violated they're sovereignty, if you don't your small empire will be erroded piece by piece by the larger powers around you. The second problem is that yes man is just the house ending without a goal and with an expiration date. House has survived centuries and has the will and foresight to carry out his plans with some help from a trusted associate. The courier is a human, age unknown, whose probably not in the best of health givin' all the bullets they've taken and y'know half they're organs being removed by weird robots. Once the couriers gone whose gonna control yes man. No matter who it's almost certainly gonna trigger another war.
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Oct 29, 2020 12:54
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Honestly attempting to predict any sort of future for the wildcard ending past what's stated in the ending slides is sorta a pointless excercise because so much of it hinges on the personality and competancy of the Courier, to which there is no clear answer. The Courier's character is constructed in part through gameplay and in-game choices, and in part by how the player imagines they are, but there isn't a hard grounding for them. Most arguements about Wildcard are just people asserting that the Courier would do X, with the counter being actually they would do Y, without either argument having much evidence beyond how they imagine the Courier personally. For example: Gaius Marius posted:The second problem is that yes man is just the house ending without a goal and with an expiration date. House has survived centuries and has the will and foresight to carry out his plans with some help from a trusted associate. The courier is a human, age unknown, whose probably not in the best of health givin' all the bullets they've taken and y'know half they're organs being removed by weird robots. Once the couriers gone whose gonna control yes man. No matter who it's almost certainly gonna trigger another war. Whose to say the Courier lacks will and foresight? What's preventing them from naming a competant successor and ensuring a peaceful transition of power, or from creating institutions that allow for democratic, popular control of Yesman? What's stopping them from simply utilising House's technology to extend their own life? A lot of these outcomes hinge on what sort of person the Courier is, which is an impossible standard to establish. Edit: thinking about it, I know that I've pointed out a problem that comes with discussing any sort of fictional media, although I guess its more relevant when the creation of the protagonist is a sort of collaborative effort between the game devs and the players themselves. Vagabong fucked around with this message at 13:30 on Oct 29, 2020 |
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Oct 29, 2020 13:23
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its gonna end up ncr but go in a different direction if it ever happens
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Oct 29, 2020 13:29
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JustaDamnFool posted:Honestly attempting to predict any sort of future for the wildcard ending past what's stated in the ending slides is sorta a pointless excercise because so much of it hinges on the personality and competancy of the Courier, to which there is no clear answer. The Courier's character is constructed in part through gameplay and in-game choices, and in part by how the player imagines they are, but there isn't a hard grounding for them. Most arguements about Wildcard are just people asserting that the Courier would do X, with the counter being actually they would do Y, without either argument having much evidence beyond how they imagine the Courier personally. I think you can make some inferences based on the fact that by default a Wildcard courier ends up as a leader who gains his legitimacy from a large private army without requiring the support of really any of the people they're ruling which I think is a bad basis for a government regardless of how great and kind the courier themselves is. When all you've got is a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail, etc. That said, I do agree that it's still hard to speculate because depending on how the courier has been played, there's no reason to think they'll maintain a military dictatorship as opposed to ceding power and control of the securitrons in some way.
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Oct 29, 2020 14:42
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Even as a good courier, your dealing with most of the factions is on the basis of what is the best for achieving your goals, not what they actually wish / how they would like to develop themselves.
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Oct 29, 2020 14:48
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Berke Negri posted:the ncr wouldnt exist without a single PC strolling into town and fixing problems in shady sands 200 years ago every fallout game is dependent on this Though in between games Tandi had a very long term as president of the NCR. I disagree that the NCR are a bunch of incompetent buffoons, just that the current leadership stinks and is verging on a manifest destiny approach towards growth. This is one of Caeser's points against the NCR, suggesting that period was more of a monarchy than a democracy.
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Oct 29, 2020 15:19
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House deserves death for being a monstrous imperialist that has destroyed multiple societies, and forced others into cosplaying for him in order to remain alive. His view for the future is capitalist imperialism and is what lead to the end of the old world. He’s an artifact to be laughed at and destroyed.
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Oct 29, 2020 15:27
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Internet Wizard posted:House deserves death for being a monstrous imperialist that has destroyed multiple societies, and forced others into cosplaying for him in order to remain alive. Same could be said of the Courier.
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Oct 29, 2020 15:30
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*sees two gigantic multi-ethnic countries aggressively expanding their territory* *points at the city caught between them* imperial
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Oct 29, 2020 15:47
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*invades a country, kills the leader, puts self in charge and starts absorbing surrounding areas* i have saved you from imperialism
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Oct 29, 2020 15:56
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Most concise summary of the last millennia's history.
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Oct 29, 2020 15:57
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Byzantine posted:*invades a country, kills the leader, puts self in charge and starts absorbing surrounding areas* i have saved you from imperialism -Mr. House, immediately after emerging from the Lucky 38
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Oct 29, 2020 16:01
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